Can We Remove Nullifiers...(Balance + Event Suggestion)

[Stratego89]

Literally "you mad" said with another words. Reported

Ok.

i dont want to remove them because they are "hard", i want to remove them because their design is bad.

We got new improved nullifiers now that use a much fairer, better scaling system.

Even if the new enemies DO fill a roll that nullifiers could if they were "better designed"- they are VERY RARE spawns. Nullifiers are a normal enemy. If you remove nullifiers and leave it to the new enemies, game goes back to being easy mode 90% of the time. It is not a good suggestion to remove them. Instead- you should suggest to IMPROVE them.

[ArchPhaeton]

Nullifiers and bombards, broken since day 1.

Fine by me, remove that crap and/or replace their mechanics to something actually meaningful.

Can't this game be challenging without shenanigans spam?

 

/snip/ ... a more tactical approach. /snip/

>Tactical approach

>Warframe

I lol'd

[LazerusKI]

Rebecca has already explained how Nullifier bubbles work.

 

 

Still, they are cancer and could be improved in many ways.

 

Being selective in what they nullify like Comba and Scrambus, being purely supportive with no damage ability, making certain enemies penetrate their shields, making the shields be only a partial cover.

 

On top of not making the bubble penetrate environment obviously.

 

Finally someone else who knows what they're talking about. Noone seems to be listening to me when I say this...

ok then, lets just use that as an example then.

My rapidfire unranked, unmodded S.Gammacor deals <100 damage per round, so it counts as 100, right? since my unranked, unmodded S.Gammacor has 15rps, that means i can reduce the shield by 90% in just one second. So i can shred it in 1.1s

in reality, the shrinking cant even handle that RoF. you shoot at it for 1s and it shrinks for several more seconds, even if you have allready stopped, you have to wait for it to drop.

 

Now lets use my Modded 5x Formad 35k per hit Opticor, its clearly above 400 right? Too bad that its RoF is less than 1rps.

But its damage is then set down to 400, so i can only reduce its shield by 24% per shot. so i need 5 shots (4.1 to be precise) to take it down.

So a full magazine, 1s per shot with 2s reload time to take out ONE bubble.

 

somehow this doesnt sound balanced...

seriously, s.gammacor is strong, but there are weapons with even higher RoF, Twin Vipers with 25 or Prisma Grakata with 21 for example. and damage doesnt matter, since it gets increased to the basic 100 anyway, while everything above 400 gets reduced

 

Now the AoE thing. wasnt it considered a bug once? Atleast i remember that from back then when they released frost. its simply the way explosions are handled, basically killing them with AoE is an exploit that was never fixed.

 

Ok.

Even if the new enemies DO fill a roll that nullifiers could if they were "better designed"- they are VERY RARE spawns. Nullifiers are a normal enemy. If you remove nullifiers and leave it to the new enemies, game goes back to being easy mode 90% of the time. It is not a good suggestion to remove them. Instead- you should suggest to IMPROVE them.

well...increase the spawnrate and replace the frontal shield with a regular bubble that doesnt has this stupid shrinking mechanic? huh that was easier than i thought, suddenly i have a nullifier that can either attack or defend, a nullifier where a magnetic weapon might be usefull, a nullifier where every aspect of my weapon actually matters and not just its RoF...

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[PickleMonster21]

--

While we're at it, can we take out Napalms too? They are super tanky and deal too much damage. Having difficult enemies is no fun.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

lol you cant just remove something because its to hard, its annoying but jesus JUST CALM DOWN.

 

without a challenge its too boring (imo).

 

you dont want a game where you move 1 box from one side of the room to another.

I actually had a game like this on my old nokia phones, heck, there's a lot of flash logic games like this nowadays.

 

Up to a point, Nullifiers are challenging, but quite soon they become just cheap, with their mobile bunkers and OHK Lankas.

 

@PickleMonster21

 

Napalms could use some work in AoE department, not only it penetrates cover but the effect itself is much smaller than AoE.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Mofixil

[LazerusKI]

...

Actually armor scaling is an issue that we have since Damage 1.0.

It was bypassed through the use of Serrated Blade (basically Armor Ignoring Slash damage) but is now back again.

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[akira_him]

While we're at it, can we take out Napalms too? They are super tanky and deal too much damage. Having difficult enemies is no fun.

Well, nullifiers is only easy to be defeated by automatic rifles, a bit hard for shotguns(but they can get into the bubble as they supposed to get close)and fxxking hard for snipers, launchers and bows

however naplams are equally difficult(or easy) for all weapons to take it down

nullifiers is suppressing weapon diversity, badly, for obvious reason

and DE wants diversity, removing nullifiers is a reasonable request

[LazerusKI]

Well, nullifiers is only easy to be defeated by automatic rifles, a bit hard for shotguns(but they can get into the bubble as they supposed to get close)and fxxking hard for snipers, launchers and bows

however naplams are equally difficult(or easy) for all weapons to take it down

nullifiers is suppressing weapon diversity, badly, for obvious reason

and DE wants diversity, removing nullifiers is a reasonable request

this.

[PickleMonster21]

oh well, lets take 5 Nullifiers close to eachother. So you cant take out the shields without another one regenerating.

Now let them be at a level where they can onehit Tanks, and since you cant take them out from the distance, you need to get into that bubble...and there they hit.

Now put some Heavies and Bombards under those globes too, let them stunlock you with stomps and missiles.

And lets not forget to add some ancients so that you cant even kill the crewman

and hey, just for fun lets add some eximus units with the heatwave, toxic aura and snowglobe

This... doesn't happen. Unless you spawn them yourself whilst using the Simarus Key. 

 

Actually armor scaling is an issue that we have since Damage 1.0.

It was bypassed through the use of Serrated Blade (basically Armor Ignoring Slash damage) but is now back again.

I was kidding ._. Don't remove Napalms and don't remove Nullifiers. If you take away Nullifiers, you take away literally the only Corpus Heavy Unit, so to speak.

"What about the Corpus Techs?" Oh please. They're really useless. And while we're talking about unfair, why don't we remove the Corpus Tech's ability to throw out a Shield Drone when their shields are too low (if you can't kill them fast enough... which never happens anyway)?

And don't get me started on the Comba. They're weak as. It's like the Corpus brought a Magnetic weapon to fight off a Fire Prosecutor. It doesn't work. Occasionally, you'll get the only one that affects you, but when you do... they die just as quick as a Grineer Butcher.

DO NOT REMOVE THE ONLY THING THAT THE CORPUS HAVE THAT PRESENTS A CHALLENGE. If you do that, you're pretty much just giving the Community permission to make the suggested nerfs I've listed above (reduce Napalm Armor, take out the Corpus Tech's ability to throw out Shield Drones), and many more as they see fit.

This thread gets the Angel's Facepalm approval.

[akira_him]

 

I was kidding ._. Don't remove Napalms and don't remove Nullifiers. If you take away Nullifiers, you take away literally the only Corpus Heavy Unit, so to speak.

 

Brace yourselves, Brusas are coming!

Edited October 27, 2015 by akira_him

[PickleMonster21]

Well, nullifiers is only easy to be defeated by automatic rifles, a bit hard for shotguns(but they can get into the bubble as they supposed to get close)and fxxking hard for snipers, launchers and bows

however naplams are equally difficult(or easy) for all weapons to take it down

nullifiers is suppressing weapon diversity, badly, for obvious reason

and DE wants diversity, removing nullifiers is a reasonable request

I DO see your point with the whole Diversity thing, but I have to disagree with you.

It's easier to take down a Nullifier Crewman with a Supra, Soma [Prime], [Prisma] Gorgon [Wraith]. Yes.

It's easier to take out a Napalm with a Vectis [Prime], Paris [Prime]/Dread and (dare I say it) Snipetron. I can't speak for the Opticor or Explosive Weapons as I choose to use them as Mastery Fodder (don't fit my play style).

While DE DO encourage weapon diversity, they do it by saying "Bring this weapon for this Faction as it takes care of them easier", which I don't agree with, but so far, that's how it is. And removing a Nullifier is not the way to go to encourage weapon diversity over ALL factions. Neither is Nerfing them.

But it's definitely easier to walk into a Nullifier Crewmen's bubble and take him out with any weapon than it is to take out a Napalm

Edited October 27, 2015 by PickleMonster21

[akira_him]

I DO see your point with the whole Diversity thing, but I have to disagree with you.

It's easier to take down a Nullifier Crewman with a Supra, Soma [Prime], [Prisma] Gorgon [Wraith]. Yes.

It's easier to take out a Napalm with a Vectis [Prime], Paris [Prime]/Dread and (dare I say it) Snipetron. I can't speak for the Opticor or Explosive Weapons as I choose to use them as Mastery Fodder (don't fit my play style).

While DE DO encourage weapon diversity, they do it by saying "Bring this weapon for this Faction as it takes care of them easier", which I don't agree with, but so far, that's how it is. And removing a Nullifier is not the way to go to encourage weapon diversity over ALL factions. Neither is Nerfing them.

But it's definitely easier to walk into a Nullifier Crewmen's bubble and take him out with any weapon than it is to take out a Napalm

Actually, using automatic rifles to take out naplam is still easier, you don't have to aim or have charge time or get close, just use shred and spray

[LazerusKI]

This... doesn't happen. Unless you spawn them yourself whilst using the Simarus Key. 

On a smaller scale it happens. a lot.

 

I was kidding ._. Don't remove Napalms and don't remove Nullifiers. If you take away Nullifiers, you take away literally the only Corpus Heavy Unit, so to speak.

"What about the Corpus Techs?" Oh please. They're really useless. And while we're talking about unfair, why don't we remove the Corpus Tech's ability to throw out a Shield Drone when their shields are too low (if you can't kill them fast enough... which never happens anyway)?

And don't get me started on the Comba. They're weak as. It's like the Corpus brought a Magnetic weapon to fight off a Fire Prosecutor. It doesn't work. Occasionally, you'll get the only one that affects you, but when you do... they die just as quick as a Grineer Butcher.

DO NOT REMOVE THE ONLY THING THAT THE CORPUS HAVE THAT PRESENTS A CHALLENGE. If you do that, you're pretty much just giving the Community permission to make the suggested nerfs I've listed above (reduce Napalm Armor, take out the Corpus Tech's ability to throw out Shield Drones), and many more as they see fit.

Thats why i said that Comba and Scrambus could replace them with some changes.

Give them a bubbleshield that doesnt use such a derped shrinking mechanic, encourage players to actually use magnetic damage to beat them instead if the fastest weapon that they can find.

 

Corpus Techs? those guys can hurt pretty bad, but like all Corpus units, they could need a shield rework.

ah well, maybe damage 3.0 will finally solve the weak shields and strong armor.

 

The Nullifier isnt a challenge, its just a broken annoying unit that scales exponentially in groups. honestly, if shields would work as intended, even the "weak comba" would be a challenge.

 

I DO see your point with the whole Diversity thing, but I have to disagree with you.

It's easier to take down a Nullifier Crewman with a Supra, Soma [Prime], [Prisma] Gorgon [Wraith]. Yes.

It's easier to take out a Napalm with a Vectis [Prime], Paris [Prime]/Dread and (dare I say it) Snipetron. I can't speak for the Opticor or Explosive Weapons as I choose to use them as Mastery Fodder (don't fit my play style).

While DE DO encourage weapon diversity, they do it by saying "Bring this weapon for this Faction as it takes care of them easier", which I don't agree with, but so far, that's how it is. And removing a Nullifier is not the way to go to encourage weapon diversity over ALL factions. Neither is Nerfing them.

But it's definitely easier to walk into a Nullifier Crewmen's bubble and take him out with any weapon than it is to take out a Napalm

Well, i can take out Heavies with any weapon as long as it uses the right element.

I can take out Heavies in seconds with my Corrosive or Radioactive Ignis, i can also wipe out swarms of infested. And since it has a massive RoF and AoE it even shreds nullifiers.

 

The diversity with "bring this weapon against that faction" is true, but then again the corpus killersniper Lanka is useless against the Nullifier. its not just one weapon that is useless against them, its every single weapon that has high damage per hit with a low rate of fire.

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[PickleMonster21]

Actually, using automatic rifles to take out naplam is still easier, you don't have to aim or have charge time or get close, just use shred and spray

Well you DO have to aim Especially if you're using Heavy Caliber. And the charge time on anything [bow] except the Dikou isn't even that bad once you mod it. All you have to do is point, shoot and enjoy the body going 30 meters away from you.

[fatpig84]

Just let bows and sniper rifles ignore the bubble.

Before you scream, "It won't be a challenge!@@#@!"

 

Chill out.

 

Using a bow or sniper rifle is ALREADY a challenge for a hoard game like WF. 

So actually I don't see why we can't give these extremely underused weapons a small buff like this.

Edited October 27, 2015 by fatpig84

[LazerusKI]

Just let bows and sniper rifles ignore the bubble.

Before you scream, "It won't be a challenge!@@#@!"

 

Chill out.

 

Using a bow or sniper rifle is ALREADY a challenge for a hoard game like WF. 

So actually I don't see why we can't give these extremely underused weapons a small buff like this.

now i wish that sniper rifles would actually be usefull...but currently the most awesome "sniper rifles" are redcritting Bows, a pistol (Lex Prime) that hits like a truck and a Laser Launcher (Opticor) with Rifle Ammo that doesnt even need to crit...oh and it deals AoE damage too.

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

This thread has failed to remain respectful in many ways. Way too much back and forth arguing / accusations.  Locking for now to preserve feedback and reviewing.