So. Pve Stuff Available Only Through Pvp?

[(XBOX)Master4733]

That doesn't change anything. Your 15:5 ratio still means that the other team has to absorb a 5:15 ratio. The nature of the scoring means that if you're collecting rep quickly, someone else is collecting rep slowly.

if there's 4 people on a team in a match I killed them roughly 4 times each, and died 5 times seems fair to me and that not including my other 3 guys who might get like 1 kill each

[Stormdragon]

Analogously, "a free phone plan for local calling that makes you pay for long-distance" is the same as "a long-distance phone plan that gives you local calling for free". You're trying to tell me those are different.

Once again, I'll sit here and laugh when the PvPers start complaining about the flood of AFKers and Draco noobs the moment DE makes something like Double Tap usable in PvE.

Clearly not the same because those mods were designed for pvp use, but got made usable in pve because... who knows why? They simply added those pvp mods to be usable in pve.

A different thing would be locking mods like armored agility, vitality, etc. behind pvp because those mods were designed for pve use not pvp

Your phone example is simply a nomenclature stuff (2 different names for the same thing) while the mods thing is a practical and design stuff. (2 different names for 2 things originally designed for 2 totally different uses)

[Inarticulate]

Your phone example is simply a nomenclature stuff (2 different names for the same thing) while the mods thing is a practical and design stuff. (2 different names for 2 things originally designed for 2 totally different uses)

Phone company 1 built towers in their local area and needs to work with other companies to establish long-distance support. Phone company 2 is a #$&(% company with a national scope, but bought a popular local phone company that previously offered free local service, and customers left when they tried to force the new pricing and ended up reverting the change.

 

I still don't see anything wrong with my analogy.

[Stormdragon]

Phone company 1 built towers in their local area and needs to work with other companies to establish long-distance support. Phone company 2 is a #$&(% company with a national scope, but bought a popular local phone company that previously offered free local service, and customers left when they tried to force the new pricing and ended up reverting the change.

I still don't see anything wrong with my analogy.

Your phone companies stuff makes me think about integration between pvp and pve to get more players until somehow the game stops being free to play, players leave and game goes back to f2p business.

Nobody is taking pve from you, forcing you to do pvp nor to pay for the mods. It clearly isn't a good analogy because it isn't working.

And english not being my native doesn't help much here

Edited November 5, 2015 by -----LegioN-----

[tnccs215]

wow, this is still going on? damn people, get a break. every possible argument has already been used

[(XBOX)Master4733]

wow, this is still going on? damn people, get a break. every possible argument has already been used

My mentality is this:

[Nazrethim]

Red Soldier #1: Do you know the meaning of this war?
Red Soldier #2: Hmm?
Red Soldier #1: I mean, what's the point? It can't be for the land because everything is burned, bombed, or polluted. It can't be for the money because there isn't anything left to spend it on. So what is it? Religion? Why do we fight?
Red Soldier #2: To win the war.
Red Soldier #1: Meh, works for me.

— Gone with the Blastwave

 

[RoninJed]

What's wrong with wanting people to stick to their word? DE has said that PvP will not affect PvE content,

If it's true that DE said this then yes this is a problem. The reason why so many people flipped out over payday 2 wasn't because the new drills that unlocked new skins cost alot but mostly because Overkill went back on their word that they wouldn't add microtransactions. I think most people don't like being lied to. Edited November 6, 2015 by RoninJed

[motorfirebox]

if there's 4 people on a team in a match I killed them roughly 4 times each, and died 5 times seems fair to me and that not including my other 3 guys who might get like 1 kill each

 

I don't know how to explain this any more clearly. It's not about "fair". You say that the solution to the long PvP rep grind is to be better at PvP. Basic math says that not everyone can do that, because when one person speeds up their grind, it slows down everyone who doesn't do as well. Literally, not everyone can do well at PvP. Because in order for one person to 'win' at PvP, someone else has to 'lose'. It's a zero-sum game.

Edited November 6, 2015 by motorfirebox

[(XBOX)Master4733]

I don't know how to explain this any more clearly. It's not about "fair". You say that the solution to the long PvP rep grind is to be better at PvP. Basic math says that not everyone can do that, because when one person speeds up their grind, it slows down everyone who doesn't do as well. Literally, not everyone can do well at PvP. Because in order for one person to 'win' at PvP, someone else has to 'lose'. It's a zero-sum game.

If you get better you can kill me more, it's not like I'm the only person playing pvp there are plenty of people to kill

[motorfirebox]

If you get better you can kill me more, it's not like I'm the only person playing pvp there are plenty of people to kill

 

Oh my god, dude. Yes, if someone gets better, they can kill you more. Which slows down your grind. If everyone else gets better, and you end up with a 5:15 KD, then your grind will take hours to complete. Which is why "get better" isn't really a solution. In order for one person's grind to speed up, someone else's grind has to slow down.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

I don't know how to explain this any more clearly. It's not about "fair". You say that the solution to the long PvP rep grind is to be better at PvP. Basic math says that not everyone can do that, because when one person speeds up their grind, it slows down everyone who doesn't do as well. Literally, not everyone can do well at PvP. Because in order for one person to 'win' at PvP, someone else has to 'lose'. It's a zero-sum game.

This just shows how unexperienced you are, i can definetly see shenanigans in capture leading to a team of 4 people, even skilled ones, walking out with barely any rep, which was made even worse with the rep nerf from, well, the captures, i know right?

 

What you wanna play is 4v4 annihalation, even if you don't play that well, you get rep from completing the match and more from winning, something your team mates will help you to. You can also engage in cross fires and be quick to grab that oro, even if you didn't get the kill.

 

Now, your central argument is that it takes longer for an unexperienced person than an experienced one. That is true, welcome to planet earth, that's how things roll, in nature, in real life and in games.

 

Lastly, you wanna reduce the grind? Be my guest, I'd very much like it too, even for me, a good pvp player, it takes long, if we consider the game has 3 fronts to tackle on, of them them, the main one, consisting of 2 raids.

 

And speaking of raids: DE has said they'd never make cosmetics affect the gameplay again, yet, they did it. My take on it? I hate raids, I hate it very much, BUT, using your parameters, I have to have those arcanes in the same way you have to have those cross mode mods.

 

So, in both our cases, we've been lied to and are forced to do things we don't like. Forgetting the fact that that's intrinsicate to life itself, there's one difference about us: I embrace the changes, i see the raids as needed for the game's ecosystem and completely see the arcanes as fitting, worth it to those who seek them, yet, expendable to those who don't bother. The same applies to the cross mode mods, except they don't affect gameplay nearly as much as arcanes.

 

The goal of forums is to discuss, to succeed in here i'd say one would have to find consensus, so, here's something we can all agree on:

 

Reduce the pvp grind, for christ's sake, it'd only be tolerable if we had nothing else to do in WF.

[Rivy]

So now we're arguing semantics. Great xD

[Stormdragon]

Keep the thread on and we will start discussing about history, philosophy, sports, maths, science, other games, or whatever with no influence here xd

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Keep the thread on and we will start discussing about history, philosophy, sports, maths, science, other games, or whatever with no influence here xd

So here's where the W.H.O.P.P.E.R. says its better not to play the game.

Or yank those PVE/PVP cards out of play and go back to the friendly line of we PVE won't bother you PVP, if you don't bother us.

Still Space Quidditch...c'mon SPACE QUIDDITCH!!! How could that go wrong? Well a lot but still.

[Stormdragon]

So here's where the W.H.O.P.P.E.R. says its better not to play the game.

Or yank those PVE/PVP cards out of play and go back to the friendly line of we PVE won't bother you PVP, if you don't bother us.

Still Space Quidditch...c'mon SPACE QUIDDITCH!!! How could that go wrong? Well a lot but still.

Ahahaha, nobody said it's better not to play the game, just pointing that the thread keep pointing any little thing of an argument just to get rid of it.

I agree on those pvp cards being taken out of pve (they are useless in both modes) or at least make them being obtainable through both game modes.

Edit:

About space quidditch, sounds fun, but with this mode needing a brand nrw balance and many people saying things like "pvp is leeching resources from pve", "pvp shouldn't exist" and such, there's no way to know how people will react if it gets added.

On the other hand pvp, even tough it's fun, the main lack of balance comes not from the game itself, but from the p2p connection used in it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by -----LegioN-----

[(XBOX)Master4733]

Oh my god, dude. Yes, if someone gets better, they can kill you more. Which slows down your grind. If everyone else gets better, and you end up with a 5:15 KD, then your grind will take hours to complete. Which is why "get better" isn't really a solution. In order for one person's grind to speed up, someone else's grind has to slow down.

Oh no I'll need to spend more of the hours I already spend actually getting rep, seriously the better you get the better it is for you, I'll have to improve more to get the lead again

[(PSN)mstortz]

The way I see it, none of these are actual gameplay-affecting beyond the player using them. They only serve to augment their experience, not make the game easier. It's not like Serration is buffed when you used the PvP variant.

 

this is a buff, specially on a gunner DPS like mirage

holster rate is crazy good if you got 2 syndicate weapons equipped and they complement each other.

[motorfirebox]

Oh no I'll need to spend more of the hours I already spend actually getting rep, seriously the better you get the better it is for you, I'll have to improve more to get the lead again

*facepalm* Just... never mind.

[Inarticulate]

wow, this is still going on? damn people, get a break. every possible argument has already been used

Do not underestimate the need for people to prove that they are right on the internet.

 

And yeah, there really haven't been any new arguments brought up in the past 10 pages. Maybe I'll go AFK in some Conclave matches when I get home.