Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Raptorator]

Here are just some random ideas for Saryns Ability that would help her to be become the toxic nighmare she ever wanted to be :)

 

Spores

Every enemy affected by at least one spore is slowed by X%, the more spores the slower the enemy (maybe 10-15% per spore?).

 

Maybe give the spores the ability to deal something like 3-5% of the maximum Hp of the target as viral damage per tick, to increase its effect against high level enemies.

 

Molt

Give it a short invulnerability time like 1-2s after casting, to prevent it from dying to fast against high level enemies (recasting or the use of Miasma still detonates the Molt).

 

If you use Molt, while under a status effect, this status effect is transferred to every enemy that attacks the molt.

 

Toxic lash

The ability should creat three or five "mini"-Scoliacs on her back, which attack enemys who come to close (3-4m?) to Saryn and inflicting them with a toxin-proc (100% Status-chance), pop the Spores on them and stagger them for a short duration (like the stagger on Novas Nullstars).

 

These "mini"-Soliacs also have a high Chance for autoblock incoming melee/bullet attacks (like the autoparry mod) and knockback/down effects (like grapling hooks or "ground slams"), thereby increasing Saryns survivability.

 

The damage these "mini"-Scoliacs deals is calculated like the damage of Exalted Blade or Hysteria, but weaker of course.

 

Miasma

Every enemy that is killed by miasma creates a gas cloud (like Contagion Cloud), which lasts for the 1.5x Duration of miasma. This cloud has a high chance to inflict toxin and/or viral procs if the killed enemy was under on or both of these status effects, additionally every enemy who comes in contact with this cloud is slowed and has his accuracy reduced by 40-50%.

[(PSN)kira4715]

Common sense? Field testing? Realistic conditions? C-comparisons with a rework that actually WORKS?!

Hide this from the forums! It's too much truth for them to handle. The sheer amount of minds blown would cripple the playerbase for weeks.

Lol common sense is not so common nowadays :(

[GhostLacuna]

Here are just some random ideas for Saryns Ability that would help her to be become the toxic nighmare she ever wanted to be :)

 

Spores

Every enemy affected by at least one spore is slowed by X%, the more spores the slower the enemy (maybe 10-15% per spore?).

 

Maybe give the spores the ability to deal something like 3-5% of the maximum Hp of the target as viral damage per tick, to increase its effect against high level enemies.

 

Molt

Give it a short invulnerability time like 1-2s after casting, to prevent it from dying to fast against high level enemies (recasting or the use of Miasma still detonates the Molt).

 

If you use Molt, while under a status effect, this status effect is transferred to every enemy that attacks the molt.

 

Toxic lash

The ability should creat three or five "mini"-Scoliacs on her back, which attack enemys who come to close (3-4m?) to Saryn and inflicting them with a toxin-proc (100% Status-chance), pop the Spores on them and stagger them for a short duration (like the stagger on Novas Nullstars).

 

These "mini"-Soliacs also have a high Chance for autoblock incoming melee/bullet attacks (like the autoparry mod) and knockback/down effects (like grapling hooks or "ground slams"), thereby increasing Saryns survivability.

 

The damage these "mini"-Scoliacs deals is calculated like the damage of Exalted Blade or Hysteria, but weaker of course.

 

Miasma

Every enemy that is killed by miasma creates a gas cloud (like Contagion Cloud), which lasts for the 1.5x Duration of miasma. This cloud has a high chance to inflict toxin and/or viral procs if the killed enemy was under on or both of these status effects, additionally every enemy who comes in contact with this cloud is slowed and has his accuracy reduced by 40-50%.

Now those are some interesting ideas. :)

 

I would play the hell out of that Saryn. not so much the spore spam she is now.

[djternan]

Here are just some random ideas for Saryns Ability that would help her to be become the toxic nighmare she ever wanted to be :)

Spores

Every enemy affected by at least one spore is slowed by X%, the more spores the slower the enemy (maybe 10-15% per spore?).

Maybe give the spores the ability to deal something like 3-5% of the maximum Hp of the target as viral damage per tick, to increase its effect against high level enemies.

Molt

Give it a short invulnerability time like 1-2s after casting, to prevent it from dying to fast against high level enemies (recasting or the use of Miasma still detonates the Molt).

If you use Molt, while under a status effect, this status effect is transferred to every enemy that attacks the molt.

Toxic lash

The ability should creat three or five "mini"-Scoliacs on her back, which attack enemys who come to close (3-4m?) to Saryn and inflicting them with a toxin-proc (100% Status-chance), pop the Spores on them and stagger them for a short duration (like the stagger on Novas Nullstars).

These "mini"-Soliacs also have a high Chance for autoblock incoming melee/bullet attacks (like the autoparry mod) and knockback/down effects (like grapling hooks or "ground slams"), thereby increasing Saryns survivability.

The damage these "mini"-Scoliacs deals is calculated like the damage of Exalted Blade or Hysteria, but weaker of course.

Miasma

Every enemy that is killed by miasma creates a gas cloud (like Contagion Cloud), which lasts for the 1.5x Duration of miasma. This cloud has a high chance to inflict toxin and/or viral procs if the killed enemy was under on or both of these status effects, additionally every enemy who comes in contact with this cloud is slowed and has his accuracy reduced by 40-50%.

Those suggestions are pretty awesome.

[Vardog]

Alright, I wanted to give the "new" Saryn a fair try so I took my time testing different builds in different scenarios, here's my thoughts.

 

I have to say I'm really puzzled, I mean, I do not see the point of this "rework" because she's pretty much at the same spot she was before. It seems like you, DE, got so hung up on this whole 'Synergy' buzzword that you forgot to adress any of Saryn's issues which were (still are):

 

1. Lack of Survivability -  In this case you even made it worse by unjustifiably reducing Saryn's base Health. The 25 health reduction is a huge hit to Saryn's already abysmal survivability, I cannot think of a single reason why you decided this would be a good move. Saryn is not a Tank, she cannot soak hits like Rhino, Valkyr, Chroma or Atlas. Just as before the rework, her only means of survival is her Molt, which still, due to it having flat Health/Shield values, gets destroyed in milliseconds when fighting against any decent level enemies. At higher levels Saryn cannot use her Molt defensively or to leech back Health through Regenerative Molt becuase the Molt itself doesn't even last a second in a firefight. Plus the way it draws aggro is wonky to say the least.

The new 'synergy' didn't bring anything new to the table in terms of survivability.

 

2. Lack of CC/Utility - Just as before the rework, her only form of CC is her Miasma stagger, which doesn't even work on all enemy types (ex. Ospreys) and her only Utility is her Viral proc which is quite tricky to pull of compared to other Frames with similar abilities, plus you somehow need to stay alive before you spread the proc. Because of this and her lack of damage scalability she is not welcome in high/end game parties.

 

3. Lack of damage Scalability -  Saryn's biggest problem before was her lack of Scalability into higher tier content, sadly this is still the case, perhaps even more than before. Saryn's damage, due to it being 'flat' doesn't scale into late game, once enemies get high enough you won't be doing any significant damage to them and because Saryn lacks CC and Utility (except for her Viral procs), her ablities basically become more and more useless the higher level enemies she faces. Molt gets destroyed instantly, Toxic Lash and Miasma damage becomes insignificant. Only her Spore's Viral procs remain useful across all difficulties but just as before her rework, that's not enough to make her viable.

 

All of these problems are still present and just as prominent as before, this rework didn't fix any of Saryn's previous  issues and introduced some new ones like:

 

 

1. Energy conservation - Since this rework introduced this new Ability synergy without actually changing the Ability costs Saryn now has to deal with serious Energy inefficiency and because of her lack of Scalability into end game, the energy problems get worse the higher level enemies she faces. Rage helps alleviate this problem somehow but once enemies get 'too dangerous' where they can 1-2 shot Saryn (around level 70-80) Rage stops being an option and Saryn simply runs out of energy in a matter of seconds.

 

2. Modding - Because Saryn's rework focuses so much on her making use of all her Ablities it's quite difficult to balance out her mods. It seems no matter how you mod she'll be lacking some stat since now all stats are important to her.

 

*Duration: Each Saryn's ability benefits from this stat, you could certainly do without an abundance of Duration however this would mean you need to cast more ablitties and hence waste more Energy.

 

*Efficiency: Neccessary stat to pull of any of the new synergies, the Abilities cost too much to do without this.

 

*Strengh: Not nearly as useful as before due to the insane nerf to Miasma and the DoT damage is quite pathetic at high level however you'll want this stat to be at least at 100% to make your Regenerative Molt heals decent.

 

*Range: Since Saryn's ablities have such pathetic base range you definitely won't want to sacrifice this stat to benefit others. Range means easier time spreading Spores, larger Miasma and Molt explosion radius. Less range basically means more casting which translated to even more Energy consumption.

 

Because Saryn now requires pretty much every stat and because of how Dual Stat mods are designed it's almost impossible to find a good Stat Balance for Saryn.

 

Now, for her abilities:

 

 

1. Spore - This abilitity is fine for all I know, not too strong, not too weak. It would be nice if the Spores popped on expiration as well as Death but I can live with how it works now. More range would also be nice.

 

2. Molt - Doesn't do it's job since it dies too quickly. At higher levels you don't get value out of casting this skill as it gets destroyed before you even have the chance to turn around and cast Venom on it. Has 0 Scalability, it needs to either:

 

a) be duration-based (no Health/Shields) with the ability to detonate remotely with a press of a button,

 

b) remain Health/Shield-based but make it take damage in percentage-based chunks, for example make it take 3% of it's maximum Health/Shield per hit, this way it would Scale into late game,

 

or

 

c) make it work like Frost's Snow Globe, short invulnerability after cast, damage dealt to it during this time feeds into it's Health.

 

3. Toxic Lash - I might've liked this ability if Saryn was actually durable, but she's not so I don't like it, at lest not on high level maps where enemies can 1-2 shot Saryn. Without any sort of CC/Status Immunity, Melee is just suicide for Saryn.

This ability would be much more appealing if it worked with all weapons, not just Melee ones. Making it work with Ranged weapons would also improve it's synergy with Spore.

 

4. Miasma - This ability was overnerfed. The only reason why it was used before was because you could build a Negative Duration Saryn and melt low/mid level enemies. Now, with the Negative Duration build gone this ability lost all it's use since it doesn't provide anything except damage. The current Miasma is basically a 100 Energy cost, very short range stagger (that doesn't work on all enemies). It does not provide any Utility nor any significant form of CC, it's a waste of energy ability.

Sure, it has the 'synergy' but this synergy doesn't make this Ability worth using, the value you get out of spending almost 200 Energy on this 'synergy' is just not there and because Miasma's damage, just as the rest of Saryn's abilities, doesn't scale with enemy level this ability becomes completely obsolete above level 70-80.

 

Miasma is just broken all over the place, it doesn't excell at anything. Take Nova's Molecular Prime for example, it has a base Range of 35m, that's over twice the range of Miasma (which is a laughable 15m), as a Saryn I would need to use both Stretch and Overextended to reach the 35m mark on Miasma. M.Prime's SECONDARY explosions have a Range of 10m, that's almost as much Miasma.

Aside from that M.Prime also makes all targets take double damage, which is essentialy adding a Viral proc to every enemy, but that's not all, M.Prime also slows the enemies down by 30% (and this scales with Strengh so in reality it'll be much more) AND it turns every enemy into a living bomb that explodes on death creating a chain reaction. All of this achieved by pressing one button meanwhile the current Saryn has to spend twice the amount of energy and three times as much time prepping her 'synergy' only to get worse results in the end.

 

It's just sad how bad Miasma is now, it's not worth using at all, even Toxic Lash is more usuful than the current Miasma.

There need to be some serious changes to Miasma to make it useful. I propose a few changes:

 

a) first of all increase it's base range to 30 meters, it deserves it, it needs it. This would help Saryn alleviate some of her modding problems,

 

b) increase the DoT duration to 6-9 seconds, considering how Miasma now does laughable damage and you want Saryn to be a DoT frame it seems only logical to increase Miasma's damage through extended Duration,

 

c) add a secondary effect to Miasma, I was thinking something in lines of an 'Enfeeble' effect that makes the affected enemies do less damage to the players, how much exactly is up to debate but I don't think a 50% damage reduction would be unreasonable considering you need to spend 100 Energy plus some enemies are immune to Status effects. This would also slightly help Saryn with her Survivability issues and make her Miasma have some Scalability in end game content.

 

d) make using Miasma pop all Spore in it's Range,

 

 

 

As I already said this whole 'rework' seems pointless as it didn't adress any of the issues Saryn had/has, it only introduced new ones. She's still a Frame that has no niche to fill, for anything she does there are 3 other Frames that do it better and faster.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Vardog

[3tomatoes]

So if Saryn is supposed to be a debuff frame now she should be compared to Nova, which does this much better than Saryn. What is the point of playing Saryn now?

[akira_him]

So if Saryn is supposed to be a debuff frame now she should be compared to Nova, which does this much better than Saryn. What is the point of playing Saryn now?

Stacking her with nova I guess?

[Exodess]

Bruh, if the only thing you can do is crunch numbers, it might explain why you don't find this rework very fun. Stop focusing on what "was" and refocus on what "is." She still obliterates everything on the normal starchart, which is the only stuff that's supposed to be accounted for in balance. Endless mode scaling is outside the standard scope of the game. 

 

Yes, there are Warframes with higher damage potentials right now. They're probably in line for reworks/touchups too. 

 

Yes, this game is currently about powerfarming and Saryn is no longer as useful for that, but this game isn't supposed to be about powerfarming, so DE is working on changing that. 

 

I'm not saying "Saryn is more powerful." I'm saying Saryn is more fun. Unless, of course, your definition of fun is pressing one button and looking at numbers pop up on a screen. 

 

If by "Fun" you mean "Energy Hog", then yes -- Saryn is the Hummer of Warframes.

[Zantorie]

This is the worst rework ever, Saryn is now a big Noggle Statue who sits in your Liset and collecting dust. Thanks DE, you've once again killed another efficient warframe. Nice job !!! DE dont forget to close the barn door after the horse has escaped.

[PowerofTwo]

Ok after since it's been a few days and i've given new saryn and try and watched some other people play her i would like to make on main statement.

 

DE, PLEASE don't get caught up in this "player interaction" word of the day you've got going on right now, i've seen it happen to (no offense) ALOT bigger companies, trying to inovate or reorganize their games just for the sake of it. "If it's fixed don't broke it"

 

Now, i do aggree, that yes, new saryn is more fun, more complex and more.. *cough* synergistic, than the old one, ofc she is, there's no possible way to argue that she isn't BUT at the same time, did old saryn realy need this change? She , together with mesa, and now it's looking like RJ excal or maybe main equinox will fill that roll, is the lazy mans frame, the farming frame, the "i'm free to playing so gota keeps the grinder running 24/7" frame. She wasn't being used in raids and was kind of take  it or leave it on any T4 40mins / 40 waves + groups. Was it that horrible to have a frame that fit the low level blender perfectly?

 

So yeah you did it, you made her more fun and synergistic and all that PR buzzword speech, i can now combine all my powers in synergistic way... and do jack S#&$. In her current forms she has POTENTIAL, but she needs ONE of her stats tweaked, wich one? i dono, throw a dart since she needs every single stat as she is right now, there's realy no combination of mods atm that can give her a way to function properly. And yes i assume that's the whole POINT of corrupted mods (tho saryn is the only frame this realy applies to) to sacrifice something to theoreticaly gain something alot more powerfull, except with saryn you gain nothing.... i think i'm actualy gona test what she can do if you run JUST basic mods, get like 30-50% increase in everything.

 

It seems to just be unclear whether she's susposed to be a meele brawler type frame now, or a damage frame, or a support / debuff frame or what, she has elements of all those archtypes, same way she scales (and get penalized) by every stat. She just seems to have been designed for a different game.

 

If using range as an example, you go max range and duration , sacrifice power compleetly, and play a debuff style frame. Now, in this scenario, you'd basicaly guarantee a 100% uptime on a viral proc on enemies, wich in theory is nice exept this only works in a group running 4 CP's, wich it's possible a large amount of the player base isn't aware of or simply doesn't partake it.

 

If you try to go for power i think Toxic lash end's up scaling to if i recal allmost double damage, wich with life strike and something like a scindo, could work, but then the first gunner or bombard you try to meele knocks you down and you get dogpiled by butchers. Also Miasma at You can get close to 1k dmg a tick at 280% power, but you sacrifice 20% duration duration (and efficiency, but let's just assume EV trin here, yes i'm sry to those of us who prefer solo play). So assuming toxic and Viral proc's are up you're doing roughly 7.200 dmg over 2.9 seconds. Sorry i'm doing this on the fly, don't have acces to all corrupted mods at rank 10 and warframe builder hasn't updated. But anyway, yeah 7200 dmg... for 200 energy, out of your 225, because flow can't fit anymore. Even if you got max duration max power, then there's no way to get efficiency so i think you hillariosly don't even have a big enough BASE energy pool for that, and have to give up regenerative molt and a defensive mod (wich the 2 previos examples where using) you can get allmost double duration wich for simplicity's sake you'd prolly get 14k dmg... in 6 seconds... for 200+ energy. Where as before you'd burst for 13k.

 

Yeah i've ranted abit as i tend to do. Idea is, fun concept, needs ironicaly more synergy within the kit itsself. You can't come close to old saryn damage so she needs a new, FOCUSED archtype, either support / debuff , meele brawler, or damage.

Edited November 8, 2015 by PowerofTwo

[Frenzy1980]

Dear DE-Team,

 

my thoughts so far:

 

Give Sayrn for her 1. ability also a Stun-effect. The enemy just keeps killing you, when you put the spores on them.

 

Then let the 2. abilitiy be casted multiple times, so that you can have like 10 at the same time, to use them as traps sort of with the spores. Molt also dies too fast, so that you dont have enough time to cast the spores on it sometimes. Let the spores explode immediately as soon as the enemy shoots on your molt. Because it takes too long to wait for a fast game like this until all effects are on the enemy to fuilly utilize the 4th ability.

 

Give her, her old health stat back.

 

Lower the energy cost und rise up the damage a bit.

 

All ticks should always have a small stun, because the enemy keeps killing you already at Lvl 50.

 

So far, thats my thoughts atm.

 

Greetings from Germany, Cologne

 

Frenzy :)

[GhostLacuna]

Yup that is why i have 80% duration on mine now until i fix p con.

 

Jack of all trades master of none my &#!.

 

Sorry DE but i will make your damn frames work as specialists. No matter how much play testing and tweaking to my build i have to do.

[Rankii]

I'm actually really thinking the only person that even plays the game is Rebecca. That's the only way I can make sense of this rework beign so terrible so consitently.

[Rhaenxys]

Lets see this week hotfix what they do to saryn but i hope DE tweak her survivability a bit, she needs more than changing back her health to 150 base.

 

The blocking damage reduction should be a straight damage reduction like shatter shield, link etc, when going into melee range and you start attacking you will be out of block, leaving you vulnerable, all for a frame with not enough armor to go into melee range.

[Culaio]

I get where you are coming from, but maybe you just need to relax a bit, it's ok if you're not at top level, if your mastery is not the highest or if you don't have the lastest item from the Void trader :)

 

Why are you so obsessed with ducats lol ? As I said earlier, there is really no necessity to farm intensively for them. Save them for something you really want, once, from the Trader, rather than everything you believe you need when you don't ;) What is your MR ? If you're a newer player I'd recommand you to simply focusing on your frames, your gear, and learning the mechanics of the game. If you're experienced then you know all that :)

 

I wil add you for sure.

 

I am not a noob, I am playing warframe since a short while before archwings were added to game, but I am taking my time with mastery rank I am currently rank 13, at first I didnt focus so much on farming/grinding, but I missed one event and I felt disappointed I could enjoy it, second event come and I really want to do it since back then I had no plat and there was good reward but since lacked good gear(frame was very unfit for the even) thankfuly I found someone who was nice enough to carry me through the event, I was happy for the reward but at the same time ashmed that I was draging down the team, so I decided to get strong so I wouldnt have to be carried ever again and instead would be someone who could carry others through missions, I wanted to repay community for help people from community given me, I lacked slots and dont have any money to buy plat so I farmed for plat, trading wasnt going great but slowly I was getting more slots which let me let me have more variaty of frames , which ironically let me really enjoy the game, I werent farming as much as I do nowdays and I didnt really farm for prime sets(since I believed to have a LOT of time to get them) for myself but then removal of frost prime happen barely were able to get the parts for reaper prime and latron prime but I lacked one part of frost so I was forced to buy it for hard earned plat it, after that I didnt want to be catched with my pants down so I decided to get all primes from oldest to newest so I wouldnt be forced to quickly farm when next removal of primes happens. This was main reason I become so focused on farming.

I werent farming for ducats at first since gatherig primes was more important to me but then I missed some primed mods that are actually needed to make some weapon/frames good,, I am still waiting for primed continuity to return, because how unreliable is void trader with returning gear(stuff newer then primed continuity returned before primed continuity did) I now want to get all the gear when it first show up

[mcryseria]

Okay so after messing around with Saryn for the past couple of days after her rework, I think we CAN all agree she needs more survivability ,more base range on her abilities *cough* miasma and lower energy costs on her abilities *cough* miasma. Yeah she's fun but fun doesn't cut it when you're playing high level content. Give molt the snow globe treatment and also I really think she can use a 100% corrosive proc each time miasma is used (-25% enemy armor, does not stack, casting miasma again will just refresh proc duration and deal another set of DoT). Oh and maybe make it have 4 seconds base duration instead of the laughable 3 seconds that she has right now. Do that and maybe we can finally call it a 'rework' instead of nerf.

Edited November 8, 2015 by mcryseria

[BattledOne]

General consensus is that she needs to have these changes:

-Spores should stagger or slow when spores are popped. 

-Molt should have a mechanic similar to Snowglobe where it at least won't die for a few seconds. Some say Regenerative Molt should be it's innate feature.

-Toxic Lash block boost is kind of out of place. Some suggest it adding melee range.

-Miasma's stun should last for the full ability duration. Having a guaranteed corrosive proc also seems to be a fan favorite.

Edited November 8, 2015 by BattledOne

[PsiWarp]

Some suggestions:

Molt

- Saryn and teammates in range of a Molt explosion are healed (health only) for the amount of damage sustained by Molt.

*Regenerative Molt less mandatory but still unique to its function.

*Innate healing for Saryn to increase her survivability, along with team support.

*Can be manually detonated by recasting Molt to receive healing early, or wait until Molt is killed.

*Scales with Power Strength since Molt's health = amount healed when killed

Toxic Lash

- 100% Stagger on hit.

- Spores spread by Toxic Lash also transfer this stagger effect to newly infected enemies.

- Can transfer stagger multiple times as long as a spore is popped by Toxic Lash.

Miasma

- Pops at least one spore on each enemy in range. These Spores will proc Corrosive alongside Viral and Toxin if present.

- Emits an aura of noxious fumes around Saryn that follows her as long as Miasma is active. New enemies that enter its range are afflicted with Miasma, renewing the aura duration.

- The fumes aura range is the same as Miasma's initial cast range (15 m at max ability rank), and is affected by Power Range.

- Enemies previously affected by the same instance of Miasma will not be affected again.

- Can recast Miasma to refresh duration on previously affected enemies, as well as for the aura.

*The idea is to encourage movement to maximize the spread of Miasma's plague wherever Saryn goes when the aura is active... without making Miasma a channelled ability like Equinox's Maim.

*This allows Saryn players a chance to swiftly reach enemies outside of Miasma's initial cast range, ideally dealing double/triple damage from combining Viral and Toxin procs.

*Corrosive proc aids Miasma in scaling its damage in the late game scenarios.

[Rankii]

Also overal damage boost for actually doing the 214/134/abc/123/doreme combo.

Because not being able to hurt a lv40 whatever after all that is pretty discouraging. Especially when you're trying to make room for your fallen friend in a long-running survival.

 

I just want saryn to be a damage frame, and for all the effort to actually pay off. 3-4 button presses to tickle my enemies in naughty places isn't worth the effort when I can just shoot them.

[RealPandemonium]

Also overal damage boost for actually doing the 214/134/abc/123/doreme combo.

Because not being able to hurt a lv40 whatever after all that is pretty discouraging. Especially when you're trying to make room for your fallen friend in a long-running survival.

Fully comboed damage is only 10% less than old negative duration Miasma, or 86% more if you count the Viral proc that likely wasn't there 100% of the time before.

 

The level 40 Grineer heavy that takes little damage from Miasma would also take little damage from anything else, because of armor scaling.

 

At level 40, Grineer heavies (500 armor at base) have 1822 armor, which confers 86% damage reduction.  you're only dealing 14% of your original damage, so it's no wonder you find it weak.  Damage types that partially ignore armor (Radiation/Corrosive and, to a lesser extent, Cold/Toxin) can partially make up for that, but as levels go up (by around level 70 or so) it doesn't even matter very much any more.  

 

Is the solution here to give everything absurd base damage values, or should DE make armor not scale up dramatically with level so that Grineer aren't orders of magnitude more durable than the other factions?

Edited November 8, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[VoidNomade]

Molt change:

-inherit life reg(to damn HELL with the augment DE if you can´t balance your own fromage!)

-explosion gives a dbuff to all enemies affected that reduces their accuracy by X

-higher range

-higher life

 

Miasma change:

-damage bypass armor and any sort of DR...

[GhostLacuna]

If toxin lash actually worked reliable on quick melee it could see more use.

 

Now its just forced melee on a frame that have nothing to support a melee centric playstyle

[TheBrsrkr]

Why not add an additional function to Miasma where multiple toxin procs explode like Avalanche? Gives a reason to stack with Toxic lash. Also give Spore a stagger effect.

[Rankii]

Fully comboed damage is only 10% less than old negative duration Miasma, or 86% more if you count the Viral proc that likely wasn't there 100% of the time before.

 

The level 40 Grineer heavy that takes little damage from Miasma would also take little damage from anything else, because of armor scaling.

 

At level 40, Grineer heavies (500 armor at base) have 1822 armor, which confers 86% damage reduction.  you're only dealing 14% of your original damage, so it's no wonder you find it weak.  Damage types that partially ignore armor (Radiation/Corrosive and, to a lesser extent, Cold/Toxin) can partially make up for that, but as levels go up (by around level 70 or so) it doesn't even matter very much any more.  

 

Is the solution here to give everything absurd base damage values, or should DE make armor not scale up dramatically with level so that Grineer aren't orders of magnitude more durable than the other factions?

That implies perfect execution every single time. I mean for each skill to still be worth using aside from a setup for miasma.

[RealPandemonium]

That implies perfect execution every single time. I mean for each skill to still be worth using aside from a setup for miasma.

Each power is useful outside of Miasma.  

 

Spore spreads Viral to pretty much everything on the map; undeniably useful.  Can also chain significant damage from overlapping Toxin proc spreading.

 

Molt functions the way it should (removes procs and aggro, lets you get to safety.)  Also acts as a source of Toxin proc for Spore.

 

Toxic Lash significantly increases melee damage, is a source of Toxin procs for Spore, and makes blocking worthwhile.