Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Vecsar]

If you sum up all of what is being said:

 

Saryn is not a good frame for high level soloing.

 

After a certain point only your weapons are doing any considerable damage due to armor scaling issues. Survivability is reduced because Molt cant take many hits, Saryn now has less health and the Armor bonus does not seem to compensate for that. Do we even have to mention her set up cost more energy than Times Square on New Years eve?

 

You put her is a group with adequate support. 4xCP, EV Trin.. etc. she shines.

 

I have not tried her with a Red Veil Syndicate mod or weapon yet. But that would be a logical test since the Blight proc lends itself to her Kit.

 

I have posted before about things I would like to see changed but the more I play her the more things I think about.

 

Have Toxic Lash add toxin to weapon damage and pop spore. Any weapon damage not just mele.

 

Molt cast at the reticle not the Warframe. (like Decoy) and let it scale with the Warframes health and /or armor mods

Edited November 8, 2015 by Vecsar

[Rankii]

Each power is useful outside of Miasma.  

 

Spore spreads Viral to pretty much everything on the map; undeniably useful.  Can also chain significant damage from overlapping Toxin proc spreading.

 

Molt functions the way it should (removes procs and aggro, lets you get to safety.)  Also acts as a source of Toxin proc for Spore.

 

Toxic Lash significantly increases melee damage, is a source of Toxin procs for Spore, and makes blocking worthwhile.

Spore spreads viral to everything in range. Building for range gimps power unless you're satisified in mediocre stats everywhere.

Molt dies in all of two seconds if I'm generous with survivability. Even with the augment, with the death of low duration the regen times take you out of the fight. 

Toxic lash forces the player, with lessened HP, in to melee range. Chasing down enemies will almost always be inferior to just shooting them when playign saryn.

And let's behonest here; the only reason those procs are worth mentioning is because they set up miasma. Toxin doesn't do much on its own, even with viral.

 

 

If you sum up all of what is being said:

 

Saryn is not a good frame for high level soloing.

 

After a certain point only your weapons are doing any considerable damage due to armor scaling issues. Survivability is reduced because Molt cant take many hits, Saryn now has less health and the Armor bonus does not seem to compensate for that. Do we even have to mention her set up cost more energy than Times Square on New Years eve?

 

You put her is a group with adequate support. 4xCP, EV Trin.. etc. she shines.

 

I have not tried her with a Red Veil Syndicate mod or weapon yet. But that would be a logical test since the Entropy proc lends itself to her Kit.

 

I have posted before about things I would like to see changed but the more I play her the more things I think about.

 

Have Toxic Lash add toxin to weapon damage and pop spore. Any weapon damage not just mele.

 

Molt cast at the reticle not the Warframe. (like Decoy) and let it scale with the Warframes health and /or armor mods

To be fair, almost anything shines when you have 4 Corrosive Projection and a (good) EV Trin.

Also you missed a lot of critism.

[Vecsar]

@Rankii

 

You are right almost everything does. :)

 

The problem is that in order to shine, Saryn needs this.

 

When you start getting into must have group comps and must have Prime mods, it is a red flag, or should be.

 

Those things should make a warframe shine even brighter, not be required to even be viable.

[RealPandemonium]

Spore spreads viral to everything in range. Building for range gimps power unless you're satisified in mediocre stats everywhere.

Molt dies in all of two seconds if I'm generous with survivability. Even with the augment, with the death of low duration the regen times take you out of the fight. 

Toxic lash forces the player, with lessened HP, in to melee range. Chasing down enemies will almost always be inferior to just shooting them when playign saryn.

And let's behonest here; the only reason those procs are worth mentioning is because they set up miasma. Toxin doesn't do much on its own, even with viral.

 

Stretch isn't gonna break the bank slot-wise; Overextended is unnecessary (but can be worth it.)  

 

I've always viewed Molt as an escape mechanism (literally shedding skin) rather than a preemptive or sustained aggro draw (though you can do this with smart placement anyway.)  

 

Toxic Lash enhances the melee option; nothing has changed in that regard.  It's also kind of irksome that people act as if only some frames can melee, and that Saryn doesn't still have better durability stats than most frames even after the [pointless] health nerf.  

 

Toxin procs spreading via Spores can add up to a lot of damage, especially if specialized weapon loadouts are used (Ignis and Acrid stand out.)  Toxic Lash's guaranteed proc significantly contributes to melee damage, if you choose to melee.  

[Exodess]

of course not; this megathread is to keep the from page from being filled with complaints, not actualy getting feedback to improve anything. The various itterations of "you #*($%%@ up" can be easily ignored, in favor of the oh-so-valuable "Thank You DE" threads. If saryn gets a signifigant improvement in any way, I'd buy the new skin on principle alone.

 

Yeah, NCSoft did the same thing when City of Heroes was being shut down years ago. They basically told everyone to email a specific address, which was essentially a black hole.

 

Watch the next devstream - they'll either not mention Saryn at all or, through willful ignorance, act like the changes are fair and balanced and that everyone agrees with them.

 

I honestly don't even know why the hell they spent so much time and energy on this change. It seems like a waste of company resources.

 

 

Okay so after messing around with Saryn for the past couple of days after her rework, I think we CAN all agree she needs more survivability ,more base range on her abilities *cough* miasma and lower energy costs on her abilities *cough* miasma. Yeah she's fun but fun doesn't cut it when you're playing high level content. Give molt the snow globe treatment and also I really think she can use a 100% corrosive proc each time miasma is used (-25% enemy armor, does not stack, casting miasma again will just refresh proc duration and deal another set of DoT). Oh and maybe make it have 4 seconds base duration instead of the laughable 3 seconds that she has right now. Do that and maybe we can finally call it a 'rework' instead of nerf.

 

 

So much this.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Exodess

[PowerofTwo]

Her problem right now is she fits no niche, no archtype, no role. 

 

You have good brawlers, Atlas, Valkyr, Chroma, Rhino to some extend, aparently his 1 is being made to work like atlas's 1

Good damage dealers, Ember, Excal, Mirage, Mesa, Ash sort of... even Equinox main can work (tho how equinox using 1 ability in 7 is less of a problem than saryn , let's just glance over), even mag while strictly a corpus killer mag scales INDEFINETLY Mag's 2 works on %, you can one shot level 1 billion corpus if ever saw one

Crowd controll / point defense frames , Vauban , Frost, even Zephyr is kind of useable for this. Then there's loki , mirage, nyx

There are even "farming" frames like Nekros, Chroma and Hydroid

You have some frames that "go god mode" or have some kind of hyper scaling tankyness or invulnerability like Trin, Valk, Zephyr.

Also Support frames in the form of Trinity and Nova.

A couple of frames work realy nice for soloing some specific content, volt, loki, limbo

 

The only other frame that doesn't have a specific nieche atm is Oberon, but to be fair his kit is actualy kind of fine, he has massive problems with scaling but on paper he's abilities fit with a support / crowd control frame.

 

Saryn has a theme, she does poisony.... stuff but no clear focus. Her 3 would fit a brawler her 1 would fit a support providing a permanent viral proc and her 4 is suposed to be a damage skill... that does no damage. Considering the Support frames are sort of limited atm, i'd be fine if she got put in the support role, give her 1 or 4 some relevant crowd controll and maybe increase her base range and she'd fit just fine.

 

Forgot Banshee, Banshee is wierd in the sens that if squads where 5 person, she'd fit PERFECTLY , but still she would fit a support role, problem is her 2 does what nova's 4 does better and there's are better crowd controll's than her 1 and 4.

 

 

Yeah, NCSoft did the same thing when City of Heroes was being shut down years ago. They basically told everyone to email a specific address, which was essentially a black hole.

 

Watch the next devstream - they'll either not mention Saryn at all or, through willful ignorance, act like the changes are fair and balanced and that everyone agrees with them.

 

I honestly don't even know why the hell they spent so much time and energy on this change. It seems like a waste of company resources.

 

Considering this thread will probably hit 3k reply's by the next devstream i REALY hope this doesn't happen. Maybe we won't see hotfixes nextweek since there's alot of feedback here, but surely something should will be tweaked 2 weeks from now right?.... right?

Edited November 8, 2015 by PowerofTwo

[3tomatoes]

spores is ok but not amazing

 

molt is ok with the augment

 

toxic lash is useless because melee is useless

 

miasma does nothing

[TheBrsrkr]

Yeah, NCSoft did the same thing when City of Heroes was being shut down years ago. They basically told everyone to email a specific address, which was essentially a black hole.

Watch the next devstream - they'll either not mention Saryn at all or, through willful ignorance, act like the changes are fair and balanced and that everyone agrees with them.

I honestly don't even know why the hell they spent so much time and energy on this change. It seems like a waste of company resources.

 

Considering that we ALREADY got some changes, this has no merit to stand on.

[Rankii]

Yeah, NCSoft did the same thing when City of Heroes was being shut down years ago. They basically told everyone to email a specific address, which was essentially a black hole.

 

Watch the next devstream - they'll either not mention Saryn at all or, through willful ignorance, act like the changes are fair and balanced and that everyone agrees with them.

 

I honestly don't even know why the hell they spent so much time and energy on this change. It seems like a waste of company resources.

 

 

 

 

So much this.

It's just a nerf. I've seen this nonsense happen, but they package it as a "complex" rework so that inexperienced players can feel special for essentially doing more work for less.

[(XBOX)SixPathsOfHate]

Seems like out of all the famous warframe youtubers, only faitko has said it was not so good ie. bad which is interesting and should be looked at.

[Perserve]

Loving the changes so far. the thing I like the most is being able to spread toxin procs with toxic lash. But one of the issues with it is it depends of duration which hurts the skill. Most of the time I play with others and if I don't get to melee with toxic lash I just wasted energy. I'd suggest toxic lash not depend on duration kinda like how snow globe and iron skin work by having health points that get used on hitting the enemy.

 

another suggestion would be to make Saryn's combo casting system more open. casting miasma before spore then toxic lash is more than worthless. It's a colossal waste of energy to cast miasma before having viral and toxin procs on a target. Can't Saryn players get the option of casting Miasma first? for instance while under effect of a miasma casting spore on a target procs corrosive and then if it spreads carries corrosive to other targets. each skill cast this way would do other effects rather than damage: using toxic lash while under effect of miasma procs a gas cloud(simular to the augment so a change to the augment would be to have cloud of random procs where the target died) and casting molt and having it explode while under the effects stuns the targets in a radius around the molt's location.

 

[Culaio]

Seems like out of all the famous warframe youtubers, only faitko has said it was not so good ie. bad which is interesting and should be looked at.

 

Well from what I saw from their video's they didnt really show in their video's how well saryn goes against really high level enemies, sadly most of them Jump on the bandwagon to make fun of players who want saryn to be "press 4 to win", and if you look community here and comments in their video's people who have legitimate complaints are classified as same people as the ones who want "press 4 to win".

[(XBOX)SixPathsOfHate]

What happened to build choice? Why am I forced to build duration, why cant there be an alternative? Nova take use of the negative effects of Overextended with her negative power build, thats no different from saryn with her negative duration build. They both lose something in return for another.

 

Please just revert the changes to miasma and either buff or change 3 cause> reasons are all throughout this "mega thread"

[Gnude]

finaly saryn goes dotframe... aaand in the closet. this concept is not damage/energy efficient neither damage/time efficient nor saryn has enough survivability to use her skill for fun when the mobs actually survive 2-3 skill uses and >3 seconds miasma.

[Senoinya]

First off: I do not hate the rework. In fact, I hated Saryn before this rework. I despised the very idea of even equipping her. She was a dull, boring frame that was only good for her 4 with 3 sub-par abilities that became even worse when you built for her 4. Now I use her quite often and enjoy playing as her - while I realize many people dislike the changes, I for one appreciate them, so don't take this post as being even remotely negative. I just feel that the rework needs a few touches to make it be equal to other frames.

 

Spores: Spores is a great ability, huge improvement over the old Venom. However, sometimes I notice I'll cast spores on an enemy in a crowd, and then find myself waiting for a moment because I can't tell which enemy actually got hit by it until the spores grow, which takes a few seconds that you really don't have in an intense fight. An improvement would be an acceleration to the speed at which the spores appear.

 

Molt: Molt... Feels about the same as it did before. It's not bad, but... It really doesn't feel like it had as much heart put into it as Spores and Toxic Lash did. The problem is using it as an actual trap, which is what I feel is the best use for it. Most of the time, the enemies you would hit with it are already killed by your allies long before Molt does anything to them. The only time Molt is useful for anything except distracting enemies or healing you, is in solo play. You might be able to land a lucky hit with it here or there, but most of the time it's a waste of energy to use it for that. I suggest that when it's re-cast, the old clone not only vanishes, but instantly spreads toxin over a wider radius than just when it's destroyed. In addition, Molt should release a slight toxin aura around it, kinda like an eximus.

 

Toxic Lash: This ability is good, but honestly it feels more like a 2 than a 3. It simply doesn't get enough bang for your buck on its own, and really ends up being the spore popper ability over anything else. One improvement would be to make the ability a toggle rather than something that instantly drains a lot of energy and then you don't get much out of it. The second would be to make Toxic Lash's toxin procs multiply in damage the more you proc it, meaning the more you hit an enemy, the higher the damage goes, which makes it a very good-scaling ability.

 

Miasma: Miasma feels like it had no heart put into it whatsoever. All the other abilities work with each other in some way, but Miasma is just... Spores = more damage. Toxic Lash = more damage. It's a little saddening. I feel Miasma should work with other abilities like this: when cast, Spores in range are augmented in such a way that it increases their range, size, and damage*. Toxic Lash, if active when Miasma is cast, will produce toxin trails behind Saryn as she runs around, carrying traces of Miasma's toxic gas on her melee weapons more or less. In addition, since using Spores and Toxic Lash first is mandatory to make Miasma deal any worthwhile amount of damage, Miasma's cost should be reduced to 75.

 

 

Also, Saryn's HP should be brought back up. She's very melee-oriented with Toxic Lash, it doesn't make much sense for her to have only average HP and only "decent" armor when she's going to be spending a lot of time up close.

 

 

And lastly, her augments:

 

Spores augment is fairly useless, I suggest a better one of two other augments as a replacement:

 

Brain Spores: Spores proc Radiation instead of Viral.

 

Corroding Spores: Spores proc Corrosive instead of Viral.

 

 

 

Contagion Cloud doesn't really need to be replaced, just... The name. It... It still has Contagion in it. Just sayin'.

 

In fact, Spores' augment also still has Venom in its name. That could use an adjustment too, but would already be fixed if one of the replacements I suggested were actually implemented.

 

 

 

*Credit to Omega-Shadowblade for his/her idea on Miasma's effect on Spores.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Valsako

[EternalOdyessy]

I completely approve of your Molt suggestion. +1

[Omega-Shadowblade]

I like the idea for molt with a toxic aura. Kind of gives it use even aside from a decoy and eventual bomb. I also came up with an idea for miasma where using it augments active spores on enemies in range that increases their spread range, size and damage.

[EternalOdyessy]

I like the idea for molt with a toxic aura. Kind of gives it use even aside from a decoy and eventual bomb. I also came up with an idea for miasma where using it augments active spores on enemies in range that increases their spread range, size and damage.

 

DOUBLE YES.

 

I'll main Sayrin if these changes happen!

 

Hell, I'm actually back in the game now instead of waiting for u18 thanks to Sayrin's changes. I would LOVE this!

[FigsAndMice]

I like her rework, I do, but there is something still off for me about here. Excalibur rework was spot on, loved playing him, but with Saryn isn't there yet.

 

Like you said, Spore and Molt are good where they are, but I like your suggestions.

 

Toxic Lash IS just a spore popper for me. I just don't like the idea of an ability only benefitting melee for a non-melee frame. I mean, her other 3 abilities do NOT directly aid in melee at all, so I don't like the idea of her 3 just aiding melee, it should affect the whole weapons. I can't think of anything now..I don't know why they keep forcing melee on this ability...why not affect the current weapon you are carrying?

 

And Miasma also feels lacking, no substance on its own. The ability depends TOO much on synergy. I like your suggestions for it.

Edited November 9, 2015 by FigsAndMice

[Senoinya]

I like the idea for molt with a toxic aura. Kind of gives it use even aside from a decoy and eventual bomb. I also came up with an idea for miasma where using it augments active spores on enemies in range that increases their spread range, size and damage.

 

That's a great idea, actually better than what I suggested for Miasma's effect with Spores.

[Stratego89]

I see the toxic lash multiplying damage being OP.

 

I forget what the current contagion (spores) augment is, but I like the radiation idea.

 

Overall sounds good. +1

[EternalOdyessy]

That's a great idea, actually better than what I suggested for Miasma's effect with Spores.

 

I hope DE sees this thread. This is so perfect of a solution I can't believe it didn't come across their minds. Would you edit the OP so

 

I like the idea for molt with a toxic aura. Kind of gives it use even aside from a decoy and eventual bomb. I also came up with an idea for miasma where using it augments active spores on enemies in range that increases their spread range, size and damage.

 

^ This is added in?

[FigsAndMice]

DOUBLE YES.

 

I'll main Sayrin if these changes happen!

 

Hell, I'm actually back in the game now instead of waiting for u18 thanks to Sayrin's changes. I would LOVE this!

 

Yup, the Saryn rework actually brought me back into the game as well. It was completely unexpected for me because I had stopped watching the streams, and I just wanted to check what was going on, AND BOOM, the sweet(ish) rework hit me like a truck.

[Senoinya]

I hope DE sees this thread. This is so perfect of a solution I can't believe it didn't come across their minds. Would you edit the OP so

 

 

^ This is added in?

 

Was already planning on editing that in. It's a great idea.

 

EDIT: Added to OP.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Valsako

[Rankii]

What happened to build choice? Why am I forced to build duration, why cant there be an alternative? Nova take use of the negative effects of Overextended with her negative power build, thats no different from saryn with her negative duration build. They both lose something in return for another.

 

Please just revert the changes to miasma and either buff or change 3 cause> reasons are all throughout this "mega thread"

It only exists when it can justify getting rid of coptering.

I mean I used torid with saryn before because themes. But at least I had a choice then. Now I'm stuck using a handful of weapons I hate, and/or torid.