[Pvp] 17.10.0 A Curse In Disguise

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

So we all know what happened in 17.10.0. And I would really like to talk about it.

 

Lets start off with my position on the mobility. Now considering that theyre trying to make this game like "League of Tenno" as much as possible it is no suprise that they did this. Now speed players are stuck to a certain amount of frames. Now I agree with the mobility changes.

 

PERO

 

This is Warframe not league. In other words astethic variety is staple in what makes warframe, warframe which you effectively removed in this update. If you are going to add all this other stuff just for the sake that "its makes warframe, warframe"  and not balance. You could at least do what I am about to suggest, which is the ability to respec a character to have the stats of another frame.

 

Why not add 3 basic stats

 

Super Squishy - Average - Tanky. And allow players to choose what kit they want at what speed they want. Or to make a frame choose the stats of anyother frame. E.G i can be frost but I choose Excalibur's stats. Just throwing it in the air.

 

But overall considering the vision of warframe PvP even if I despise it, the movement changed MADE SENSE.

 

Now for the rest. So baiscally both pros, vets, newbies said not to nerf the karak but to buff all the other weapons to the level of the karak. This was because people realized that the TTK with the karak seemed perfect for this game. Now i frequent forums often and I can safely say that there were at least 4-5 posts about solely nerfing karak and around triple or quadruple the posts saying to leave the karak but to buff everything else or tho modify the accuracy.

 

Im glad to say that even with triple the suggestions and feedback the minority group won here. Instead of the changes that may players proposed you decide to nerf the karak and then buff some of the other weapons. But not changing their core problems. But by adding a nice bunch of rng based mods that theoretically buff these weapons.

 

I can not even fathom how much I disagree with this. Some weapons can use some mods, that's not the issue. But the weapons that were fundamentally broken, absolute garbage can only be usable when adding one of these mods. And quite frankly that's just wrong.

 

I understand that constantly nerfing or buffing some weapons is pointless and its creating a vicious circle. But by adding these mods all you are doing is slowing down the process, since players have to farm for them before hand. Now some of these mods are okay like supra and tetra mods which to me were quite usable before these mods. But the Sybaris? That burst fire weapon with lottery-like accuracy and small clip? In addition adding fire rate to a 10 round mag weapon? What? The HIND the gun that no one uses, gets this extremely powerful mod oh but its behind an RNG wall.

 

Why couldn't some of these stats/ perks be included with the weapon? Why are we adding mods to weapons that don't even classify into their group *cough* Sybaris/grinlok *cough*

 

So basically not only is the auto hierarchy still there. But the weapons that actually needed love can only get love when you go past the RNG wall. So basically there's more of an incentive to use autos which as an entire class is the most powerful weapon class in the game, not the easiest to use. No the most powerful.

 

What I want to know is why didn't take the community's suggestions into account. Very few people wanted a karak nerf. People wanted a universal weapons buff. Well we got it, but we have to farm for it. No wonder people are botting now, who would want to deal with this game just for the chance to get a hind mod.

 

TL;DR :You have to actually fix your weapons before you can add bonus mods to them. Mods are meant to change the way you use a gun, not to bandaid the issue.

 

That's my feedback

 

On another note for vets and people who enjoy actual skill based machamaking:

 I'm creating a steam group for Warframe conclavers who still believe in the old system IF you are interested please private message me on forums and Ill give you the details. This will be for when private matches come out, we never need to play pub again and play the game the way we want to play it 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[Rubbertubtub01]

The movement bro, i thought we were TENNO, not old grandpas. I already agree with everything you said and i didn't even read it all. 

 

*attempts to patiently wait for private matches*

[Lord_Noctus]

dont be so butthurt about mobility nerf at 0,9 mobility i dont even notice a difference to prenerf ash p when jump rolling. if u want speed go for low ehp frames easy as that

[Nighttide77]

First, thank you so much for all your paragraphs.  Reading this was very easy and fluid.

 

3 basic setups so you could use any frame the way you want would be pretty cool.  More choice in this instance is gud.

 

The movement nerf did kinda balance with the current TTK.  Landing 3 shots with Vectis on heavier frames is now much easier to do.  On the other hand, we now have a bunch of players who hate how slow their favorite tanky frame moves (while other players that used medium-light frames don't feel any pain).  I'll also have less trouble getting the last hit on some tanky frame trying to run with 5% of their health left from a Daikyu shot.  Runners and jumpers were a problem, and though some may not agree with what was implemented, I'd say the problem is mostly solved.  I mean, I tried to escape some dudes while I was Frost Prime, and they caught up to me and finished me off.  That honestly seems like what's supposed to happen.

 

As well, personally, I see the new mods as mods that reward players for playing a certain way, instead of DE punishing players for not using weapons in the way DE sees fit.  Weapons not only have a DPS, reload, mag size and such, but also style and handling.  Since style and handling also have to be balanced, perhaps this was one solution.  The current program system may not accommodate innate passives on weapons so mods have to suffice.

 

I do think it'd be nice if those mods were bought from Teshin, not RNG.  I've capped out my rep with Teshin for too long with little to spend it on.

 

I'm gonna have to run a bunch more matches to get a better feel, but the movement nerf with the current TTK seems fair, now.  Any lower TTK and the tanky-ness of frames and their low mobility makes their tanky-ness meaningless.

[Thalahssalyst]

First, thank you so much for all your paragraphs.  Reading this was very easy and fluid.

 

3 basic setups so you could use any frame the way you want would be pretty cool.  More choice in this instance is gud.

 

The movement nerf did kinda balance with the current TTK.  Landing 3 shots with Vectis on heavier frames is now much easier to do.  On the other hand, we now have a bunch of players who hate how slow their favorite tanky frame moves (while other players that used medium-light frames don't feel any pain).  I'll also have less trouble getting the last hit on some tanky frame trying to run with 5% of their health left from a Daikyu shot.  Runners and jumpers were a problem, and though some may not agree with what was implemented, I'd say the problem is mostly solved.  I mean, I tried to escape some dudes while I was Frost Prime, and they caught up to me and finished me off.  That honestly seems like what's supposed to happen.

 

As well, personally, I see the new mods as mods that reward players for playing a certain way, instead of DE punishing players for not using weapons in the way DE sees fit.  Weapons not only have a DPS, reload, mag size and such, but also style and handling.  Since style and handling also have to be balanced, perhaps this was one solution.  The current program system may not accommodate innate passives on weapons so mods have to suffice.

 

I do think it'd be nice if those mods were bought from Teshin, not RNG.  I've capped out my rep with Teshin for too long with little to spend it on.

 

I'm gonna have to run a bunch more matches to get a better feel, but the movement nerf with the current TTK seems fair, now.  Any lower TTK and the tanky-ness of frames and their low mobility makes their tanky-ness meaningless.

This guy ....

[Nighttide77]

This guy ....

 

Eh?

 

---edit---

 

Oh, and when I said "paragraphs" in the other comment, I meant thanks for using paragraphs rather than a wall of text.  And  TL;DR to top it off.  Love well-designed posts.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Nighttide77

[-dB-ManicReign]

I think that mobility speed should closer correlate with a frames sprint speed, why should fast frames base stats be punished when they bullet jump/roll or what not, ash prime for example has like 50% less mobility than sprint speed.. What?

[Mazauk]

I think all frames should have horizontal mobility and low hp frames should gain vertical mobility.

But thats just a wish :)

[Phasedragon]

I do like how it discourages people from using tanks and going fast, but it's also discouraging them from using them at all. Besides, this latest update still does not affect how hard it is to hit a tank, it only affects how hard it is to move as a tank.

While the roll nerf worked, it worked in the wrong way. They needed an EHP nerf to be closer to the rest of the frames, not further.

[-dB-ManicReign]

How would you guys feel about a static hp/shield & armor with all frames across the board.. The reason to choose different frames would be based off abilities

[Nighttide77]

How would you guys feel about a static hp/shield & armor with all frames across the board.. The reason to choose different frames would be based off abilities

 

Then all weapons would need a rework, there would be no tank frame or speed frame...  I kinda like the idea of tank/speed frame.

[-dB-ManicReign]

i the case you want a tank/speed frame would be based off how you mod per frame

[Zerga-08]

How would you guys feel about a static hp/shield & armor with all frames across the board.. The reason to choose different frames would be based off abilities

If it means being fast with frames I like then yes I would want this.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

If it means being fast with frames I like then yes I would want this.

I been wanting this since conclave came out

dont be so butthurt about mobility nerf at 0,9 mobility i dont even notice a difference to prenerf ash p when jump rolling. if u want speed go for low ehp frames easy as that

"But overall considering the vision of warframe PvP even if I despise it, the movement changed MADE SENSE."

 

I have no problems with the movement changes, considering how DE envisions this game it makes sense. I just said that I despised DE vision on the conclave mode and mad a suggestion for players who like the looks of heavier frames but not the speed. With my suggestion a player can choose the way he looks and can choose wether or not to be fast and squishy or slow and tanky.

 

There is no butthurt here. Also Ash P is an outler in speed to EHP. Hes the only frame in the game who is slightly faster compared to his high ehp value.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[BoyTitan]

dont be so butthurt about mobility nerf at 0,9 mobility i dont even notice a difference to prenerf ash p when jump rolling. if u want speed go for low ehp frames easy as that

Your using ash p which already has broken sprint speed for his ehp on top of that you are using a mod to increase your mobility further...Do you not see how bad your counter argument is. Go use stock rhino,chroma or frost p then come back and post here. If you have to use a mod to be viable the game is not properly balanced, on top of that those mods should not exist.

[Nighttide77]

Your using ash p which already has broken sprint speed for his ehp on top of that you are using a mod to increase your mobility further...Do you not see how bad your counter argument is. Go use stock rhino,chroma or frost p then come back and post here. If you have to use a mod to be viable the game is not properly balanced, on top of that those mods should not exist.

 

Haven't run around with Rhino P, yet, but Frost P, which is probably the slowest of the bunch, was still very viable.  In fact, I was using a -mobility +shield mod quite a bit and didn't have as much trouble getting shot at.  Lots of double jumping and tapping slide.

 

I think if you experiment more with movement controls you'll be able to regain the mobility you thought you lost.  Maglev was a huge deal for a lot of the movement, but with a bit of practice I think you'd be able to get over that.

 

I was even running Atlas and managed to get that "whoosh" sound when building horizontal momentum.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Nighttide77

[Naftal]

Of course you can still move fast, just not as fast on any frame as before. I'm sick of adapting to slower and slower speed again and again. It has happened with parkour 2.0, then with bullet jump nerf and now again. The game is now too slow. PVP movement is a complete joke compared to PVE.

[Ashloch]

Of course you can still move fast, just not as fast on any frame as before. I'm sick of adapting to slower and slower speed again and again. It has happened with parkour 2.0, then with bullet jump nerf and now again. The game is now too slow. PVP movement is a complete joke compared to PVE.

Warframe ist still faster than Unreal Tournament, which isnt slow at all... its actually pretty damn fast.

[-InV-igo95862]

Of course you can still move fast, just not as fast on any frame as before. I'm sick of adapting to slower and slower speed again and again. It has happened with parkour 2.0, then with bullet jump nerf and now again. The game is now too slow. PVP movement is a complete joke compared to PVE.

 

You can move faster if you do bullet jump + roll like in PvE. Slide strafing is less effective without Maglev.

Edited November 6, 2015 by -CM-igo95862

[Swickyswock]

How would you guys feel about a static hp/shield & armor with all frames across the board.. The reason to choose different frames would be based off abilities

 

Meh, that's something that we can save as an idea for when private matches come around. I actually also still enjoy the idea of tanky, slow frames and squishy, fast frames being a thing. Makes the game interesting when you're considering what gear and mods to use with the way it is right now. If it was like what you said then there would be a hierarchy of weapons and a total need to change them all.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Pawsmack

[rockscl]

How would you guys feel about a static hp/shield & armor with all frames across the board.. The reason to choose different frames would be based off abilities

 

im answering to this just because its becoming a recurrent idea: i hate the idea with burning passion

[Lordricker]

Im not really a fan of the all frames the same stats idea. It kinda ruins the warframe diversity not to mention what kind of balancing would have to take place for abilities, like some frames just dont have reliably good abilities

 

This is an extreme example but what if we were only allowed to use one frame,primary,secondary,melee, and no mods? it would be perfectly balanced since everyone is on the same lvl but it destroyed all diversity, making everything with the same stats is just a smaller example.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Im not really a fan of the all frames the same stats idea. It kinda ruins the warframe diversity not to mention what kind of balancing would have to take place for abilities, like some frames just dont have reliably good abilities

This is an extreme example but what if we were only allowed to use one frame,primary,secondary,melee, and no mods? it would be perfectly balanced since everyone is on the same lvl but it destroyed all diversity, making everything with the same stats is just a smaller example.

Diversity never makes good competitive shooters. So I would want this

[-dB-ManicReign]

I'm not saying all frames would be the same given how ppl mod their frames would determine if they were a tank or a squish speed demon.. Starting stats would only be the same.. No one could complain about balance then, only onhow they should mod a given frame.. But personally I think conclave is pretty balanced overall maybe with a few outliers that could be worked on

Edited November 6, 2015 by ManicReign

[Lordricker]

Diversity never makes good competitive shooters. So I would want this

 

This isnt a competitive shooter game. Yea there is pvp but it is just to have fun with warframe stuff. If all i could play in pvp was excal, braton, lex, skana, then i would not play