Told You So

[Synitare]

Im not unreasonable.

 

Two wrongs doesnt make right. Removing it first and then asking ppl to buy it isnt better option than not removing it in the first place.

 

Do you just not understand the buying is simply an option and not a requirement? Frost, Latron and Reaper will all be obtainable in game. It is exactly the same situation as a normal Prime Access. You have absolutely no argument.

[KaraBerry]

Frost prime never had prime access.

Thus appeal to laziness doesnt apply since you could never farm syandana.

And price here jumped from 20-40p to 600p to 60$.

 

PA was never good, thats why i said "better doesnt mean good".

 

And virtual items have actual value, production costs. Its actually no different than any other accessory. Thats why simple keychains dont cost thousands of dollars.

 

I.. never said Frost's Prime access, I said Prime Access as a whole.

I also never said you could farm the syandana. I said you could farm the Warframe and weapons, which are the main point.

The Price of a Prime Access full package is not 20-40p, it's $90, with a supposed $280 dollar value. (The Accessories alone are supposedly a $110 dollar value.)

Misa came with Ember, so if you want to, think of it as Ember's PA being resold, at just over half the cost of the original package. It's a steal no matter how you look at it.

 

Alright, so let's take it this way; a Virtual item has value, according to you. Just as a real item has value. Buy a game for $60. Play it for a year, get bored. Sell it for... oh, $15. It's still in practically new condition.

Now buy a PA, full $90 dollars. It goes away, production stopped. Then resell it. Chop the price, only $50 bucks now. That is a deal. Now, granted, it's not players reselling their items that they bought, it's the producer selling more copies of items previously sold, but if age and abundance decrease the value, it's the same basic thing.

 

Anyways, I've more pressing matter to attend to. U18 hype and all that. Lighten up a little, don't let a minor, completely optional detail ruin your whole day, week, month, year, etc. Have some fun, and, hey, maybe make a few friends instead of a lot of enemies. Have a nice day, and good luck hunting~

[Slaviar]

My biggest problem with it is I can't buy syandana and extractor seperately. I already own Frost, Latron and Reaper, already have profile icons and if I want platinum I wait for discount or trade. And for 60$ I can buy AAA game on release day

[Davoodoo]

I.. never said Frost's Prime access, I said Prime Access as a whole.

I also never said you could farm the syandana. I said you could farm the Warframe and weapons, which are the main point.

The Price of a Prime Access full package is not 20-40p, it's $90, with a supposed $280 dollar value. (The Accessories alone are supposedly a $110 dollar value.)

Misa came with Ember, so if you want to, think of it as Ember's PA being resold, at just over half the cost of the original package. It's a steal no matter how you look at it.

 

Alright, so let's take it this way; a Virtual item has value, according to you. Just as a real item has value. Buy a game for $60. Play it for a year, get bored. Sell it for... oh, $15. It's still in practically new condition.

Now buy a PA, full $90 dollars. It goes away, production stopped. Then resell it. Chop the price, only $50 bucks now. That is a deal. Now, granted, it's not players reselling their items that they bought, it's the producer selling more copies of items previously sold, but if age and abundance decrease the value, it's the same basic thing.

 

Anyways, I've more pressing matter to attend to. U18 hype and all that. Lighten up a little, don't let a minor, completely optional detail ruin your whole day, week, month, year, etc. Have some fun, and, hey, maybe make a few friends instead of a lot of enemies. Have a nice day, and good luck hunting~

You happily claimed that this 60$ pack and PA are shortcuts for lazy ppl.

Trading was also a shortcut for lazy ppl.

Vaulting frost prime raised price of said shortcut and farming and now they reintroduced that shortcut at higher price.

20-40p pre vaulting, 600p post vaulting, 60$ at new pack.

 

In that occasion however misa is "discounted" since ember had no accessories pack and you needed to buy highest 140$ tier, however every vault access after this one will actually raise the price you would need to pay for cosmetic, unless they split specific accessory pack cosmetics into multiple packs then its also much worse here.

 

Resold games are not new, 1 year old game is 1 year old.

AAA company sells games for 60$ but they actually put high end graphics and other expensive stuff into game. Indie however use dated graphics and circumvent around, sometimes they circumvent advanced mechanics etc but their games cost way less. Then we also have S#&$ty mobile games with few guys on team being made within weeks and they dont cost 60$ either, they actually cost few dollars at best.

 

Finally, hype doesnt work on me anymore. What im interested in are results. If u18 comes out and turns out good fine, but atm all i know for sure about u18 is de trying to sell us AAA game 4 models for equivalent of what you would pay for AAA game.

[Synitare]

 

Finally, hype doesnt work on me anymore. What im interested in are results. If u18 comes out and turns out good fine, but atm all i know for sure about u18 is de trying to sell us AAA game 4 models for equivalent of what you would pay for AAA game.

 

U18 is free. The game itself is free. Every single update that has ever come out for the game has been free. Every future update will probably be free. You're upset that they're offering the option for people to give them money so that they can continue making this game available for free, while simultaneously giving those who can't or choose not to give them money the opportunity to obtain most of the items available in the package from within the game. For free.

 

What exactly is your point? What are you actually arguing here?

[Synitare]

How about you address the actual points and answer the questions posed rather than deflecting by deliberately misinterpreting the argument? At no point in that post did I ever imply that you're saying U18 is being sold. I pointed out that the update is free, and in order to remain free they have to make money. By offering optional packages to people that wish to support the game.

 

I am legitimately curious what you are actually trying to argue here.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Synitare

[Davoodoo]

How about you address the actual points and answer the questions posed rather than deflecting by deliberately misinterpreting the argument? At no point in that post did I ever imply that you're saying U18 is being sold. I pointed out that the update is free, and in order to remain free they have to make money. By offering optional packages to people that wish to support the game.

 

I am legitimately curious what you are actually trying to argue here.

Ok, my bad.

 

What im arguing is removing stuff from the game to resell it for ridiculous price.

None of de actions regarding vaulting primes benefited players in any way and now they are using those vaulted items to dilute new packs inflate their price.

And if its succesful then what you will see is more items being removed to be resold.

 

And saying that they need money is implying that without this 60$ pack game would shut down in near future due to lack of funding which is simply false.

DE is making money all the time but instead of using this money to maybe benefit players who supported them for all this time they just extended their arm for more. 

 

Players get nothing from this pack and for this pack to have reason to exist they couldnt farm frost for 8 months. So whats here to be happy about??

[Synitare]

Ok, my bad.

 

What im arguing is removing stuff from the game to resell it for ridiculous price.

None of de actions regarding vaulting primes benefited players in any way and now they are using those vaulted items to dilute new packs inflate their price.

And if its succesful then what you will see is more items being removed to be resold.

 

And saying that they need money is implying that without this 60$ pack game would shut down in near future due to lack of funding which is simply false.

DE is making money all the time but instead of using this money to maybe benefit players who supported them for all this time they just extended their arm for more. 

 

Players get nothing from this pack and for this pack to have reason to exist they couldnt farm frost for 8 months. So whats here to be happy about??

 

You would have something of a point if the only way to obtain this stuff was by buying it, but as pointed out many times, this is not the case. The package is entirely optional, and is of no detriment whatsoever. It is 100% purely beneficial.

 

You also seem to be missing the actual purpose of vaulting, which is certainly not just to be able to resell the items again in the future. Because once again, the items in questions will be obtainable in game for free. The purpose for vaulting is to avoid over-saturating the already cluttered drop tables with the release of the next cycle of Prime items. This is why vaulting is done beginning with the oldest Prime items, since they've been out long enough to have sufficient surplus in the economy. If the goal was simply to make money they would immediately vault the most popular and/or useful items after their Prime Access period ended, and the Vault Unsealed program would have begun long ago.

[Gale47]

$10 for a Prime Accessory i missed.

 

$50 worth of plat

 

Prime titan extractor and 3 inventory slots. :D

You're making me want to spend money with all that common sense.

[Davoodoo]

You would have something of a point if the only way to obtain this stuff was by buying it, but as pointed out many times, this is not the case. The package is entirely optional, and is of no detriment whatsoever. It is 100% purely beneficial.

 

You also seem to be missing the actual purpose of vaulting, which is certainly not just to be able to resell the items again in the future. Because once again, the items in questions will be obtainable in game for free. The purpose for vaulting is to avoid over-saturating the already cluttered drop tables with the release of the next cycle of Prime items. This is why vaulting is done beginning with the oldest Prime items, since they've been out long enough to have sufficient surplus in the economy. If the goal was simply to make money they would immediately vault the most popular and/or useful items after their Prime Access period ended, and the Vault Unsealed program would have begun long ago.

Where have you been when someone actually datamined drop tables and you had multiple 25% chance drop items which could have their drop chance lowered to fit new items, where have you been when community pointed out that after removing frost prime none of the volt parts were put in their place?? What about OC?? What about r5 cores?? 

 

Dilution is a myth and goal of vaulting was never meant to help with grind.

Tier 1:

• Forma Blueprint: 0.67%
• Latron Prime Barrel: 11%
• Latron Prime Blueprint: 25.3%
• Latron Prime Receiver: 0.67%
• Latron Prime Stock: 25.3%
• Scythe Blade: 0.67%
• Scythe Blueprint: 11%
• Sycthe Handle: 25.3%

Tier 2:

• Forma Blueprint: 12.65%
• Forma: 0.5%
• Frost Prime Blueprint: 0.5%
• Frost Prime Chassis Blueprint: 12.65%
• Frost Prime Helmet Blueprint: 12.65%
• Frost Prime Systems Blueprint: 7.37%
• Latron Prime Barrel: 7.37%
• Latron Prime Blueprint: 12.65%
• Latron Prime Receiver: 0.5%
• Latron Prime Stock: 12.65%
• Scythe Blade: 0.5%
• Scythe Blueprint: 7.37%
• Sycthe Handle: 12.65%

Tier 3:

• Forma Blueprint: 12.65%
• Forma: 2.01%
• Frost Prime Blueprint: 7.37%
• Frost Prime Chassis Blueprint: 12.65%
• Frost Prime Helmet Blueprint: 12.65%
• Frost Prime Systems Blueprint: 7.37%
• Latron Prime Blueprint: 12.65%
• Latron Prime Receiver: 12.65%
• Scythe Blade: 12.65%
• Scythe Blueprint: 7.37%

These "extremely diluted" drop tables of u8 was actually easiest in terms of grind in whole history, not a single item is rare on all 3 tiers.

 

So if we take out dilution from possible reasons then what else is left?? To resell it.

Optional or not mere existence of this pack hurt players and you might think of it as optional, de however thinks that every player should buy it and will do anything to achieve that.

 

Then i would also like to mention that these drop tables were pre PA, only after ember PA was introduced they started reorganizng drop tables to have at least 1 rare part per piece of gear. Another example of "optional pack not affecting players" which actually affected players.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Davoodoo]

I can only conclude that you're trolling at this point. You're not even trying to use current or relevant information, and you're still not addressing the entire optional aspect beyond throwing completely unfounded accusations.

Wiiconquered pointing out that volt prime parts havent replaced any of removed frost prime parts is not relevant??

Having ocs and r5 cores in drop tables is not relevant??

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dsj4QezZ_WfXP16NKVsUF3TINEEb3Dr0NhrOMI913HY/edit#gid=0&vpid=A1

Drop tables from 16.11.

I see plenty of places where trinity could go without need to remove ember.

4 rarest items are in ~20% drops while they artificially dilute drop table by having higher drop chance on another 4 items within ~80% drop chance

 

So what other reason would de have to vault these?? If you cant give any then ill just concede that its only to resell it.

 

Optional is subjective belief. You believe that you can go without it, other ppl will consider grind too obnoxious and buy it.

De wants to sell stuff and as above drop tables show you theyll skew drop chances to increase sales and due to that i cant consider it optional.

[Synitare]

Fortunately the concept of "optional" is not subject to opinion, so what you consider optional is not relevant in any way.

 

Regarding the drop tables; there has be what some consider "trash" drops. It's part of how these things are designed. In fact it's pretty much the entire basis for RNG based loot to begin with. Good items are rare and rewarding, while trash items are common and not so rewarding. This makes the rare items feel even more rewarding when they do drop. The entire system is an extremely delicate balance between rewarding players in a meaningful way and keeping them interested in obtaining those rewards. This is why trash items remain while older less desirable "good" rewards are cycled out. If all the rewards were prime parts and they dropped more often, people would quickly lose interest in the game. Trading of parts would also decrease and be done for less plat, which would ultimately mean that fewer people are buying platinum and at lower amounts.

 

Yes, ultimately it's designed to incentivize spending money. They're a business and they have to make a profit; otherwise they wouldn't exist. But there is a huge difference between offering incentive to spend money and making it a requirement.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Yes im saying that if it didnt require any additional work then it shouldnt cost anything more.

-snip-

Ah, I didn't see you already responded to that quote. That's cool, I can see now we just don't agree. Cool beans.

[vomder]

No one should really be surprised by this. When they took out parts for no real reason and claimed dilution, it was all a bunch of nonsense. Plus, I'd wager the drop chances for these limited return items are awful to get players to buy them instead.