New Quest: The Second Dream [U18 Megathread/spoilers]

[Amuga]

My overall lore reaction to this update was "Eh"

Operator being a child is kinda weird/jarring, and operator customization is still a bit lacking, focus stuff is neat but I still haven't had the time to do sorties to get extra lenses, stalker stuff was cool, Warframe moving without a link was also cool. But overall kinda meh.

 

And suddenly having the operator yapping witty teenager comments over coms feels rather immersion breaking, so I had to mute that after a whole 1 mission.

 

Hopefully more interesting developments to come in the future.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Amuga

[Soju.]

Here's my thought on U18 and what the Tenno are:

 

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[OniDax]

Here's my thought on U18 and what the Tenno are:

 

 

 

Exactly.

[GhostLacuna]

hum oldest golem reference i can find is in

 

139:16 

 

Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them

 

DE sure like their mysticism.

 

I am sure there are older references but i doubt those are searchable.

 

Reading though 139 for the context was annoying enough, i wont go looking for older works.

 

as for the tenno i can only think about this=

 

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhdwallpapers360.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fseries-shinji-ikari-wallpapers-anime-pictures.jpg&f=1

[PhantasmalWraith]

Honestly loved every second of it DE thank you!

 

For everyone feeling confused about the whole tenno warframe bit:

 

You as a game player are flabbergasted to find out what you actually are. Remember Alad's  comment about not knowing where your heart was if not in your chest? I'm convinced the transference from Tenno to warframe mad e the Tenno somehow believe that they were inside the warframes. Thus why you would not know this whole time. So... we become superhuman killing machines with a Japaneze feel for whoever knows how long. 

   Then, this happens are we are dumbfounded to figure out who we are. (AKA every freaking time I look at the focus screen). Anyway coming out of cryo-sleep and essentially out of the whatever number dream that is, allows the tenno to remember the past again. SO those of you who thought you were a crazy killing machine, this is the same internal conflict your ingame character is having. Among the many reasons why we still only go to relays and stuff in Frames probably without them you don't feel right as a tenno. 

  Also the Stalker is a whole different story and I think many people have already put forth good theories on that. If you are upset because you are an adult and now you feel like a kid in the game, yes its supposed to feel that way its intentional. Its part of the story. If you are just going to bail on this game because of that you do not appreciate good story. The full feelings and attitudes and possibilities of this havent come foward yet. But think if the game is essentially the same as the lore... all those times you reveled in mowing down enemies.. you were that kid.. in that chair.. you and he are just as confused about your identity as ever. This cray plot is what really makes this game indepth. I think it easily rivals games like Halo in good storyline.

[SmallRuth]

I wanted to just state here for the record on the off chance someone from DE will see this that I absolutely loved the reveal, the cinematics, the score, and pretty much the entire quest, and I can't wait to see the future of Warframe.

Edited December 11, 2015 by SmallRuth

[GhostLacuna]

Honestly loved every second of it DE thank you!

 

For everyone feeling confused about the whole tenno warframe bit:

 

You as a game player are flabbergasted to find out what you actually are. Remember Alad's  comment about not knowing where your heart was if not in your chest? I'm convinced the transference from Tenno to warframe mad e the Tenno somehow believe that they were inside the warframes. Thus why you would not know this whole time. So... we become superhuman killing machines with a Japaneze feel for whoever knows how long. 

   Then, this happens are we are dumbfounded to figure out who we are. (AKA every freaking time I look at the focus screen). Anyway coming out of cryo-sleep and essentially out of the whatever number dream that is, allows the tenno to remember the past again. SO those of you who thought you were a crazy killing machine, this is the same internal conflict your ingame character is having. Among the many reasons why we still only go to relays and stuff in Frames probably without them you don't feel right as a tenno. 

  Also the Stalker is a whole different story and I think many people have already put forth good theories on that. If you are upset because you are an adult and now you feel like a kid in the game, yes its supposed to feel that way its intentional. Its part of the story. If you are just going to bail on this game because of that you do not appreciate good story. The full feelings and attitudes and possibilities of this havent come foward yet. But think if the game is essentially the same as the lore... all those times you reveled in mowing down enemies.. you were that kid.. in that chair.. you and he are just as confused about your identity as ever. This cray plot is what really makes this game indepth. I think it easily rivals games like Halo in good storyline.

 

That "good story" you talk about is something many of those of us that are adults have seen over and over since more then 15 years ago and then it only gotten worst. 

 

And that is only counting the generic child pilot humanoid war platform. 

 

I think i lost count after i saw generic version 4 of this same old story with some minor trope changes. 

 

So its great that you like the story and that the lore make you feel more immersed in the game. 

 

I got the plot more or less after reading embers bio the first time, more so after reading rhinos bio. Then it was just a matter of waiting for the reveal and see how advanced the plot was. 

 

So there never where any shock at all during the entire quest for me. It was terrible predicable. 

 

Its hard to be excited about something you seen so many times before. 

 

That is hardly DEs fault however. 

 

Their presentation of the end results of that quest however is entirely their own fault. 

 

I understand that i am not their main demographic but unless their make major improvements in dialogue choices and transmissions their presentation of their little npc fall short. 

 

I am far to old to take such banal and inept writing seriously. 

 

So yeah to sum it up. 

 

Good work from DE  on their own version of such an old generic theme. The art and music had great quality. 

 

They have the ability to improve the writing by leap and bounds. Hopefully they take that chance. It might elevate the major disconnection those of us that are old enough. Feel when the dialogue choices and transmissions show such a staggering amount of inexperience and lack of competency.

 

Age does not equal maturity but then you must give the player meaningful mature choices and dialogue and transmissions that at the very least has some hints of experience and knowledge behind them.

 

Most of the player base will no doubt be able to form a rapport with the npc. Those that cant have either left already or made the needed adjustments to deal with the end results of the quest. 

 

I however have ironically enough one of DEs white knights to thank for the reason i can continue to play this game. 

 

I dont give respect freely it has to be earned. Besides i am fully able to apply multiple emotions and feelings for a entity at the same time. 

 

Its fully possible to not respect someone for one thing and at the same time respect them for others. 

 

Daring someone not to disrespect someone is quite laughable. 

 

But then again i am glad the white knight told me to stop doing that :)

 

I was not roleplaying warframe before but as someone who have done that for +20 years when i first found DnD the idea was quite fun to play around with. 

 

Heck i even reused DEs lore and the awful IMO dialogue and transmissions as a base.

 

So it will be fun for me to play again but i might confuse the hell out of other players.

[BornWithTeeth]

Mmmm. I liked the reveal. I thought it was great, I loved the music, I loved how carefully it was set up over the past couple of patches. The whole thing was almost as good as Use of Weapons, albeit not as cold and brutal. Few things are as brutal as Use of Weapons.

         

    Did I mention that I love the music? I also quite like the aesthetics of the Operator, even though where most folks seem to be using the full goofy hair styles and wild colours, I'm sticking quite close to the crippled child soldier design. The Focus system is pretty cool, although some reworking of Unairu might not be out of place.

 

 

Anyway, last comment on the Tenno Operators is the dialogue choices. Not the voices, but the specific dialogue choices in their transmissions. For decades, the Operator thought that he/she was a killing machine from a warrior culture modeled on the samurai (because the Orokin are manipulative jerks). The Operator thought that they, and every other Tenno, were their Warframes. They genuinely thought that they were monstrous cybernetic ninjas, barely held in check by a code of honour, who killed everything in their path with ruthless efficiency.

 

I'm not sure why the Operator has seemingly reverted to speaking in a fashion which is, by turns, a bit childish, or like a self important teenager. The same voices, but speaking like cool, calm, seasoned killers of men, that would be perfect. My character has been a cold-blooded ninja master for far longer than he was a child colonist onboard the Zariman, or even a crippled lab experiment in a military hospital. A real, honest to God ninja master with decades or even centuries of experience could deal with the revelation that their body is an unaging child soldier.

 

 

 

I know that voice actors ain't cheap, sucka!, but maybe in a few patches, maybe....

[StrangeSir]

That last mission tho. It had me pretty pumped up. Loved seeing my favorite warframe (Loki) breaking War.

[GhostOpsRage]

Im a teen so i have no problem what so ever xD too bad for you old folks who dont like it lol dont worry you get a chance too be young again :P

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

Im a teen so i have no problem what so ever xD too bad for you old folks who dont like it lol dont worry you get a chance too be young again :P

Yes, I see you're a teen.

[Pavelord]

Mmmm. I liked the reveal. I thought it was great, I loved the music, I loved how carefully it was set up over the past couple of patches. The whole thing was almost as good as Use of Weapons, albeit not as cold and brutal. Few things are as brutal as Use of Weapons.

         

    Did I mention that I love the music? I also quite like the aesthetics of the Operator, even though where most folks seem to be using the full goofy hair styles and wild colours, I'm sticking quite close to the crippled child soldier design. The Focus system is pretty cool, although some reworking of Unairu might not be out of place.

 

 

Anyway, last comment on the Tenno Operators is the dialogue choices. Not the voices, but the specific dialogue choices in their transmissions. For decades, the Operator thought that he/she was a killing machine from a warrior culture modeled on the samurai (because the Orokin are manipulative jerks). The Operator thought that they, and every other Tenno, were their Warframes. They genuinely thought that they were monstrous cybernetic ninjas, barely held in check by a code of honour, who killed everything in their path with ruthless efficiency.

 

I'm not sure why the Operator has seemingly reverted to speaking in a fashion which is, by turns, a bit childish, or like a self important teenager. The same voices, but speaking like cool, calm, seasoned killers of men, that would be perfect. My character has been a cold-blooded ninja master for far longer than he was a child colonist onboard the Zariman, or even a crippled lab experiment in a military hospital. A real, honest to God ninja master with decades or even centuries of experience could deal with the revelation that their body is an unaging child soldier.

 

 

 

I know that voice actors ain't cheap, sucka!, but maybe in a few patches, maybe....

I think this is the whole dream theme, they donned the warframes in their childhood, the dream is probably a dissociative state, in the quest they mentioned they were subconsiously aware of their link, so they lived the rest of their teen years and adulthood in the frames, became what you made of them.

 

Transference doesn't seem to be a transfer of the mind as is, but of the subconscious, imagine you dream you are superman, when you wake up you may confuse you are if you are half asleep but when you consiousness fully wakes, you go back to being yourself and you lose any trace that you were superman in your dream. If it is like this, it would make sense they become a bit child like.

 

So every time their pod closes, they go back to the dream, but now it seems with the reveal that the consious and subconsious are working together, could this be the war without and the war within?.

 

Edit.

 

Is the dream now split?

Edited December 11, 2015 by Pavelord

[Kangarad]

Shush new Theory.

That "human" kid is a battery for the Warframe.
Its Power is diverted into the warframe to run it yet its mind is not, and it does not have control.

Which is why the Warframe (we) get to break the sword (war) without direct link to that human kid.
Without the kid we do have less energy, but with it we are powerfull beyond reason, a synergy=
Kid Lends Warframe power / Warframe protects Kid.

Now I just got to find a way to stop the kid from trying to tell me what to do in my missions, ill loot the whole corpus vessel and it should not try to tell me to " Come On!" or "Now we go into the offensive!" srsly, shut up kiddo you were in Stasis for a few thousand years or so and know nothing about todays world, just let me do this the way i've allways done it, it works afterall.


tbh. Battery has been taken out of stasis, need new stasis chamber.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Kangarad

[Soju.]

Shush new Theory.

That "human" kid is a battery for the Warframe.

Its Power is diverted into the warframe to run it yet its mind is not, and it does not have control.

Which is why the Warframe (we) get to break the sword (war) without direct link to that human kid.

Without the kid we do have less energy, but with it we are powerfull beyond reason, a synergy=

Kid Lends Tenno power / tenno protects Kid.

Now I just got to find a way to stop the kid from trying to tell me what to do in my missions, ill loot the whole corpus vessel and it should not try to tell me to " Come On!" or "Now we go into the offensive!" srsly, shut up kiddo you were in Stasis for a few thousand years or so and know nothing about todays world, just let me do this the way i've allways done it, it works afterall.

tbh. Battery has been taken out of stasis, need new stasis chamber.

Um. The kid is the Tenno (or what this quest tells us anyway). What you meant is a "Warframe".

 

And you can turn them off in the Audio section.

Edited December 11, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[Kangarad]

Um. The kid is the Tenno (or what this quest tells us anyway). What you meant is a "Warframe".

 

And you can turn them off in the Audio section.

why thank you for both. edits.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Kangarad

[N2-Power]

I have just completed the quest and now I regret it. Time to start a new account, I guess.

[Jakcal]

I have just completed the quest and now I regret it. Time to start a new account, I guess.

y

[N2-Power]

Will be hard to ignore this ...thing ... in my ship.

[GhostLacuna]

at least its in the back of the ship. Just think out it as a daycare thing for lotus :P

 

Kind of like taking a rookie for a ride until they get their own ship. 

 

And yes i know the lore i just throw my own spin on it when i play. now hush i have a poker night planned with maroo and darvo :P

[Omnimorph]

at least its in the back of the ship.

And also, it spends most of its time enclosed in the VR pod (if you back out of the room and watch, it closes up - this should actually have been obvious from the start).

 

So you don't even have to think of him/her visually sitting there being all emo teen-like, it's just the pod :)

[Soju.]

And also, it spends most of its time enclosed in the VR pod (if you back out of the room and watch, it closes up - this should actually have been obvious from the start).

 

So you don't even have to think of him/her visually sitting there being all emo teen-like, it's just the pod :)

That'd be the same as lying to yourself and pretending it's not there even though you really know deep inside it's there. .-.

[GreyVested]

So, when it comes to this update, I feel safe in saying I enjoyed the revelations/changes presented very much.

 

I'll admit, I didn't really have much expectation for the story aspect of this update, which may be why it wow'd me as much as it did. The opening cinematic didn't excite me too much (though I certainly appreciate the effort on behalf of the developers), but it did catch my interest with how it pointedly brought up the idea of something which, for me, had been a matter of story & gameplay segregation before now – the death of a Tenno, or more accurately perhaps, the death of a warframe. In a way, I feel like the relatively low key beginning helped to make the impact of the end all the more powerful, though I can get how plenty of people feel like starting with an ordinary spy mission and could feel like a mundane or boring start.

 

The end of the quest definitely took things up a notch though, and made it worthwhile in my opinion. Seeing the moon in the void, surrounding by debris and those circling structures was a great sight to behold. Other lore tidbits being dropped like Hunhow referring to Alad V as an orokin and pursuing him, or seeing more pieces of the Sentient and hearing how the Void is “poison” to them, were certainly appreciated as well and I look forward to seeing how those expand out. None of that of course, is anything compared to the ending moments.

 

The cinematic of the operator was fantastic to see – I was confused about it for a moment, thinking my character was stunned and at the mercy of whatever was coming out of the pod. Having it revealed that it was the operator was amazing though, especially with needing to carry them to safety. Having the Stalker show up on the Liset was also an enjoyable, even if parts of the final mission felt flawed in some ways.

 

A first criticism of mine would be the security eye battle. I have nothing against the concept, but the execution left something to be desired. Tricking the boss into destroying the pedulum parts? Great, but in the end I felt like I only won because of luck. I'd jump around in front of the pillars, I finally stood directly in front of the intact pillars on those platforms and dodged out of the way after the eye fired. Still nothing though. It was only after some faffing about, randomly running around that I won, which was not very satisfying – I didn't win because I outsmarted this drone, which felt like it was supposed to be the point. I'm not sure how to provide a constructive fix of this since I'm not sure how I even won, but I guess either change up the hit detection, or make it more clear what needed to be done?

 

Many people have remarked that they didn't understand what was meant by the channeling, and I was among them. At first I thought that maybe I was trying to get my warframe to run faster or recharge it's shield faster, it wasn't until after feeling some frustration in dealing with Stalker that I finally learned I needed to press the fire button. Up until then, I'd either just ran past the Sentient drones, and then tried to dodge the Stalkers attacks while repeatedly clicking the use power button. I feel like this could be easily mitigated by either mapping that power shot to both the attack and use powers, or else possibly making a small change in the UI to give an indication to use the attack button. Maybe a simple prompt on the side saying “Press [x]”, or if you want to be more subtle, maybe replace the weapon information that would be in the lower left corner, perhaps with something that says “channel power” with a glowing light icon of some kind. In the end, I did make it past Stalker, but not before feeling a disconcerting amount of frustration with the combat and starting to question why the Stalker didn't just come in and slit the throat of my handicapped self (outside of perhaps an insane sense of honor or perhaps some other buried desire overriding their desire to kill).

 

The cinematics and reveal that followed though, were immensely satisfying. The close call with the stalker, the warframe coming to life despite no link with the operator, being saved by the Lotus... And of course, the operator customization. I really hope for a greater amount of customization in the future, maybe with different kinds of cloths, accessories or hairstyles, but for now it feels like a good start. I was disappointed that it had to be this child/teenage character and I couldn't have a larger degree of customization, in fact I'll admit I was taken out of the experience for a bit, especially with the operator having speaking lines, until I started to think about it differently – that this was another part of my Tenno, in-game “character”. That yes, this character is being treated as the one behind the controls, but at the same time we have received an indication (or at least a possibility for interpreting it as an indication) that the warframes themselves seem capable of holding a will of their own. For me, that in a way made it all the more sweet – it felt as though there was a sense of union between body and soul being revealed and brought closer through intervention of the player as a whole between Warframe and Operator. And in more than a sense of just a cutscene as well, since the Focus allows for additional expression of this in terms of gameplay. I'd prefer our operator look a little more spectral, at least when channeling them with the Focus, (maybe with an option to make them look completely like some spirit being as an option for the users who would prefer that over the child, and maybe as a standard for players who haven't done the second dream yet so they remain as unspoiled as possible) I look forward to seeing where this may go.

 

 

On the matter of how this reveal has polarized some people's feelings towards the game... I do feel sorry for those who feel like this is a deal-breaker. Some of the reasoning makes sense to me, some of it doesn't. Some of the arguments I hear don't make sense to me. Even if some aspects of this quest were flawed, I wouldn't say that it was phoned in or slapped together. There was clearly effort and an attempt to exceed what's been done for story-telling in the majority of this game. I can't recall the last time I saw this much effort put into cutscenes and giving the player such a sense of urgency since the beginning quest with Vor and the Ascaris. The extensions to the back of the orbiter and the operator's room look like they are just as polished as the rest of the universe. Saying the reveal makes it too derivative, too anime-like confuse me because in many ways the game already felt like an over the top anime – space ninjas who got their superpowers from another dimension, and then started leaping around in a rainbow of suit colors while wielding a variety of fantastical weapons isn't exactly the most grounded premise in the world. The idea of the Tenno just being armored individuals feels derivative of the general space marine idea that has been around in videogames for a long time. Granted, this is just my perspective as someone who liked the ending.

 

Wanting to keep it mysterious... I can get that. It keeps it safely within expectations we've had about the warframes we've played. I think it is to the benefit of the franchise to take a chance and say this is how the lore is – being too comfortable with a status quo can lead to stagnation. Granted yes, there have been indications leading up to this that hinted at this, but still. I know some have been saying that just because some codex entry says one thing doesn't mean it needed to go this way, which I can find some agreement with. It is entirely possible that, say, even if the Tenno started as children they could eventually grown into adulthood or become the beings of light some suspected them to be.

 

As much as I enjoy how the lore is going, and I do hope DE doesn't try to retcon this... I will say that I get it, the complaints about this, how some players have felt a sense of disconnect from the revelation of the operator being a child. I've enjoyed many other videogames, tv shows, movies, comics, etc, where it felt like the story was going in one direction that felt right, that met expectations. Or maybe the story even began to have a twist that made sense at first, but then it seemed like whoever made the story took things up to eleven or explained away some things in a way that felt underwhelming, dissatisfying, or just downright wrong. There can be a feeling of disappointment or even betrayal at the most extreme. In the end, when I face a situation like this, I find myself shaking my head and either leaving, or accepting this new information and trying to enjoy when comes after for what it is, even if inside I may feel a preference for my headcanon, and perhaps may choose to reinterpret some things to fit how I feel about the media I'm looking at.

 

So, if you are one of those who feel like the reveal of The Second Dream has taken you out of the game, perhaps even to the point of feeling like you may quit, I would urge that you re-examine this reveal and try to think about how this can fit how you've seen the game before hand. Because even if you don't like this reveal, there is still so much to the core of this game's experience that is still unchanged and enjoyable. At the same time though, I do realize there are some for whom this sort of approach or thinking doesn't help. This is meant to be a serious change after all. As much as I appreciate this reveal, those who do not have just as much right to express their dissatisfaction, or even leave if they feel they must -- one's wallet and participation can say just as much or even more than words can. Ultimately, maybe a majority of players don't like this and that could be reason to retcon it. Until such a time though, I look forward to seeing where the current direction of this game may go.

Edited December 18, 2015 by GreyVested

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

and I feel safe knowing that my PS4 account will NOT be duped into playing through the quest (as beautiful as the quest is, the consequences of finishing it are not worth it). 

 

I wonder how long I can get away with existing in the old lore on PS4--- hmmm? 

 

*pours a little drink out* This is for all the people that have to live with the pod-kid in the back of their ship... 

 

 We tried to warn you... 

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

As far as explaining some of the unintended issues in the lore, this is the best outcome IMO. The writers were put in a corner by some aspects of the game such as one person fitting into male and female suits, but somehow we have the cake and can eat it too.

 

I like this plotline and hope DE sticks with this idea of the protagonist. Character creation has never felt so meaningful in a game.

Edited December 19, 2015 by (PS4)Void_Girl

[(PSN)Peaj]

So U19 we find another little dude is inside the Tenno head like in MIB?

Awesome quest, think I recognised my own Loki head at the start too, great job DE!

Also the majority of forumers kept spoilers behind spoiler warnings so thanks to the PC players and Forum Moderators, Happy Holidays to all!