Why I Dislike The New Quest/tenno Thing (Spoilers)

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Honestly it did bother me a bit....like a lot at the time (mostly cause I wasn't playing on the frame I would have wanted to save me and now it's just stuck that way). But then something happened! I stopped caring and just treated as I did beforehand when I decided to give less then 2 squirts about the lore. Hell I actually refused to read any lore until it actually made sense instead of seeming like the clusterfuck it really was. Literally read frame lore right after the quest just to make sense of some things. I played it as a game as I always have. I just see it as "it's just there" and continue on my merry collecting way. I see this in the same light as people had with FO4 and it's voice protagonist. It personally bothers me for a bit and then I just stop caring and play the game.

 

Maybe it's my ability to attach and detach myself from things. Maybe it's my ability to cast myself on anything I so choose no matter the gender, race, voice etc. Not sure but when I see peoples games ruined I understand what they mean but can safely say "glad it doesn't bother me"

Edited December 8, 2015 by DiabolicalHamSandwich

[StabbyTentacles]

"it's just there" and continue on my merry collecting way.

 

Am doing that thanks DiabolicalHamSandwich (lovin the name btw) Just kinda thought a "it's just there" and a go on your merry collecting way option/button wouldn’t have killed the Devs either. Might have helped out alot of non-teen-spacewizards-from-the-moon converts/devotees.

[Hamstertron]

You don't get the lore do you, The Tenno aren't out to "Play"

 

Most random thing they thought of? IT WAS IN THE CODEX FROM THE START, DE PLANNED THIS FROM THE START

 

DE isn't going back on it, they really aren't bringing this "old game back"

 

That boat has sailed and it's not going to turn around.

 

I'm not sure if they knew from the start that this is where they wanted to take it. We know Dark Sector was inspiration, if not canon. Hayden Tenno wore Prototype Excalibur as a suit so it wasn't unreasonable to assume the same in Warframe.

 

I take a little bit of pride in having made a close guess to the truth. I thought we might be void-touched children curled up in the fetal position in the chest cavities of warframes. I had those old-looking psychic kids from Akira in mind. To me this would explain the size and gender differences between the warframes and render them irrelevant.

 

DE's reveal also justifies in-game mechanics like revives and why we don't have permanent game-over if we completely die in and fail a mission.

 

The big question is "why resolve this now?". I'm sure there were many other things on their to-do list.

I think the answer is China. There was pressure from the cultural sensitivities (or some other factor?) of that market for human players to have human representation on-screen.

[--Q--uaint]

Which is why we never do that and yet have never evolved the ability to detect hydrochloric acid. In fact we don't have any common ways to distinguish it short of throwing something in there.

The Sentients have huge issues with the Void, they make their tech out of themselves. Can you not see how maybe we need some conformation of this "Void sense" before assuming it exists and then relying on that assumption to attempt to prove another point?

I mean why did he go to all the trouble of tricking us and the Lotus into finding his device if he had a sense that could locate the Tenno/moon without it?

 

My thought here was that the Operator casting their power to the 'frame would be much like acidic mist: not necessarily lethal... but noticeable.

 

The rest of your points are fair.

[LeaserResael]

No, explicitly the player is the Tenno, confirmed a myriad times by the devs. The Tenno lines in question are simply generic so they apply to teams. The Warframe is a Techno-organic golem, not the player.

Yeah, they said several times that we were the Tenno. But that was before they took the time to write the story. story that was being created as they went along.

It is known that they are now taking a story-centric focus, all previous quests were not story-focused, and the little story they had was there only so said events had a meaning,

They also said several times we are space ninjas, which I honestly don't think they were referring to the operators who were and still are locked to that chair thing, so... if we go with everything they said up until now, we are technically both things. 

But in the event that they come out and say that yes, we are meant to be the operators, it doesn't change anything really.

We only use the warframes. So it's not hard to think that the operators are they own being.

[Talik13]

The Operator is what we as players are but, some players just refuse to let go of their headcanon and can't connect. DE could always add the option to keep the Zariman hood up, if that would solve some of their issue. As for the Operator dialog, there is an option to disable that under the sound section.

That hood thing I agree with. Not because it causes a disconnect, but because I think the hoods look really cool.

[Talik13]

Yeah, they said several times that we were the Tenno. But that was before they took the time to write the story. story that was being created as they went along.

It is known that they are now taking a story-centric focus, all previous quests were not story-focused, and the little story they had was there only so said events had a meaning,

They also said several times we are space ninjas, which I honestly don't think they were referring to the operators who were and still are locked to that chair thing, so... if we go with everything they said up until now, we are technically both things. 

But in the event that they come out and say that yes, we are meant to be the operators, it doesn't change anything really.

We only use the warframes. So it's not hard to think that the operators are they own being.

And to add to that, most games already have you playing a character with their own personality. All they've done is added more depth to the universe.

[Omnimorph]

Yeah, they said several times that we were the Tenno. But that was before they took the time to write the story. story that was being created as they went along.

It is known that they are now taking a story-centric focus, all previous quests were not story-focused, and the little story they had was there only so said events had a meaning,

They also said several times we are space ninjas, which I honestly don't think they were referring to the operators who were and still are locked to that chair thing, so... if we go with everything they said up until now, we are technically both things. 

But in the event that they come out and say that yes, we are meant to be the operators, it doesn't change anything really.

We only use the warframes. So it's not hard to think that the operators are they own being.

 

It's quite simple, the player is the Tenno, the thing in the chair.  But the personality of that Tenno is whatever the hell personality you've been playing as all along (i.e. its personality is a blank slate, that's why you can customize it, to make it look as close to the personality you've been playing as all this time).

 

That Tenno, with that personality (i.e. the thing you're make-believing that you are) has been piloting warframes just like Jake Sully piloted the Navi avatar in James Cameron's Avatar - IOW you, the Tenno, that Tenno in the chair, have been experiencing the world through the "eyes" (sensors, whatever) of your warframe, you've been experiencing the thrill of leaping around using the "muscles" of your warframe, the feeling of power of firing off bolts of energy through it, etc.  The warframe is a techno-organic golem (as Silent Mobius said) - it's got a bit of life, but on its own, without you piloting it, without you "IN" it, it's got only very, very rudimentary intelligence, maybe like an insect or something like that.  Nothing much has changed, except you now understand that your natural physical body was in a VR pod on the moon, all the while you thought you were "in" your warframe.  All the character and personality you've played with up till now, nothing has changed about that at all.

 

 

This is the canon that DE have given us - it makes sense, it's coherent, maybe there are a few loose ends here and there, but generally it's a pretty good lore, and quite open (in the sense that it's a setting for you to have whatever personality you want to play as).

[GhostLacuna]

Omni that child has predefined lines with predefined voice overs and oneliners that force me to read a good quality book with great writing to recover from how cringe worthy those lines are. 

 

If we had the exact same canon we have now but no child npc in the liset i would have had no problem at all with the second dream. 

 

That single thing. That npc child DE designed and intended for us to build a connection and a rapport with is the only thing that prevent me from enjoying the game now. 

 

For you and others they succeeded. For you it fits you are that tenno, that child.

 

I cant . 

 

I explained it to you at least 4 times now. 

 

That npc child can have a personality but it will never have my personality. 

 

That predefined character ruined all chances for my operator to even exist. 

 

For you the customization made sense and works. Good for you. 

 

To me it just makes the disconnection even greater.

[UrielColtan]

Tell me, if you can, how a sword IS a warrior. If 'frames are not independently sapient, they are not warriors.

 

 

Way to miss the point completely. Obviously I want the Tenno to be in the Warframes. Nowhere did I say I wanted the Warframe to be a separate entity. I prefer Warframes as apparel., not puppets or pets.

Edited December 9, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Omnimorph]

Omni that child has predefined lines with predefined voice overs and oneliners that force me to read a good quality book with great writing to recover from how cringe worthy those lines are. 

 

If we had the exact same canon we have now but no child npc in the liset i would have had no problem at all with the second dream. 

 

That single thing. That npc child DE designed and intended for us to build a connection and a rapport with is the only thing that prevent me from enjoying the game now. 

 

For you and others they succeeded. For you it fits you are that tenno, that child.

 

I cant . 

 

I explained it to you at least 4 times now. 

 

That npc child can have a personality but it will never have my personality. 

 

That predefined character ruined all chances for my operator to even exist. 

 

For you the customization made sense and works. Good for you. 

 

To me it just makes the disconnection even greater.

 

If all you're saying is that there aren't enough customization options, or customization options of a certain quality, or that you haven't found some combination of features that represents the personality you feel you are in the game; if your complaint is that DE in that case has failed to provide you with sufficient options ... if that's all you're saying, or if it's just a simple case of you not liking the art design in terms of which all the given options are set, well then, sheeit, you could have said that without damning DE to hell and back :)   Is it such a great sin that a character creator, on release, has some limitations in the options and combinations of personality expressions that you can portray? Or that the quality isn't always well-written or whatever?  What were you expecting from a game, War and Peace? How many games come up to your standard - one or two out of all the games that have ever been made? That's some pretty high standard :)

 

On the other hand, if what you mean is that you'd prefer to have no pinning down at all of the physical nature of the Tenno, and would have preferred to keep the question open and free-floating for ever, while of course you're entitled to be pissed off by that, and your upset is nobody's business but your own, it doesn't make sense for you to criticize DE for pinning down the lore in that way. They were never likely to remain too much in that undecided state indefinitely. It would be, I submit, an unrealistic expectation to expect them to do so, so you can't complain that you've wasted any time.

 

On the other other hand, I think we exchanged earlier and I accepted that if it's just as simple as your being creeped out by playing someone who's physically young-looking (and if this isn't outweighed, in your mind, by the fact that they're psychologically old, experienced, and as blank slates with customizable features, are meant by DE to be capable of representing whatever emotional tone you've always played the game with) then of course there's nothing one can say to that, it's just a given fact of your preference.  Of course.

 

De gustibus and all that :D

Edited December 9, 2015 by Omnimorph

[UrielColtan]

 

 

Gonna throw an analogy here.

 

Tenno is the cephalon.

the Warframe is the ship.

 

They poly-tenno theory was long refuted and the warframes have alwasy been suits, now we know we were them mentally and not physically. I think people have taken too seriously Hunhows insults about being puppets, in that relationship of puppet and puppeter of course you can see the detach  from the frame, but if you see the operators are expanding their minds to inhabit the warframes, they are not pulling strings on the frame from above but wearing it like a glove.

 

And all the personalities and flavor you gave to your character is the dream the Tenno had, this dream is yours, you're the operator,  and this dreams resurface everytime to equip the frame.

 

 

I think what is inside the warframes, is something like a homunculus, a living body without a mind (or soul), the eyeless things Alad finds when he disect the suits, clearly with some infested tissue, I don't think it has a personality of its own it would be swallowed by the infested hive mind, but why does it refuse them. Because of the Margoolis implant found in the Ominous loading screen and that is why Margoolis mention this line in the quest "this will stop the voices from taking hold".

 

Pointless. Its not about not understanding the lore, its about not liking the outcome. I didn't get that Warframes are puppets from Hunhow, I got it from the established relationship itself. And I don't want puppets or braindead pet Warframes, I want suits(Remember DE, "Suit to kill"? Remember the Excalibur description calling it a suit?), and to take the Tenno out of the chair. Not relegated to these awful Tenno avatars we have now though. I will take an obscured silhouette of a fully grown person/s at best. I personally never wanted to see let alone customize how the Tenno behind the frames looked honestly, ditto with their voices.

Your meta analogy is also un-amusing, and a poly Tenno preference flies in the face of this dream projection nonsense flavor babble(I'm more in the camp that believes changing  warframe avatars should just be a mere gameplay feature though, no needed lore explanation behind it).  In addition, you are ironically dreaming and extracting your own dreamed up headcanon to concoct excuses.
 

Edited December 9, 2015 by UrielColtan

[LightstealKnight]

I could not disagree more.

 

D.E. blew us all out of the water with this story line.  Nobody suspected this, and looking back all the hints and clues were there all along.

 

This is not a "new" invention, it is a revealing.

 

Seeing that final sequence blew me away, and a week later I'm still shocked.  Easily one of the most memorable times in my life including weddings, and childbirths.

 

Nothing D.E. does in the future will ever compare to this.  They will continue the story and continue revealing the history of the system, and we will get a few more surprises, but nothing this drastic.

 

It truly feels like the entire game has been leading up to this big reveal.  It is on the level of "Luke, I am your father".

 

That customize Tenno screen was the moment when all the pieces fell into place.  It felt like the beginning of a brand new game.  I can't wait to see what comes out of the pipeline next.  This is a great direction for the game.  Until now it was purposeless farming.

 

You may be wishing that you took the blue pill like Cypher, but I'm with Neo, the red pill is the way to go.

[StabbyTentacles]

lol

We suits Tenno, not the chair Tenno took the red pill, you took the blue pill; you’re still in the chair!

Edited December 9, 2015 by StabbyTentacles

[UrielColtan]

It blew alright.

But no, it was an idea thrown around, people suspected it as a possibility.  Its just that a few of us didn't want it and were hoping that DE would not go through with such an idea. Though to say hints were there all along is untrue as that would imply they had really settled on Warframes being puppets from the beginning and have been referencing this puppet stuff since inception, when they obviously didn't.

 Hints to unwanted outcomes does not suddenly make them desirable to the ones who did not want them either.

Edited December 9, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Omnimorph]

It blew alright.

But no, it was an idea thrown around, people suspected it as a possibility.  Its just that a few of us didn't want it and were hoping that DE would not go through with such an idea. Though to say hints were there all along is untrue as that would imply they had really settled on Warframes being puppets from the beginning and have been referencing this puppet stuff since inception, when they obviously didn't.

 Hints to unwanted outcomes does not suddenly make them desirable to the ones who did not want them either.

 

 

Hmm,they must surely have settled on this Avatar/Evangelion lore at least since the Mad Cephalon, or at the very latest, the change to Ordis' content that brought in the "suits you" joke.

 

So that's at least a year and a bit (and since these things can often be planned way in advance, we don't know how long before that).

 

But actually it must go back to at least the Rhino Prime Codex (plus a good bit before that) because that's blatantly showing a Zariman kid grabbing control of the proto-Warframe (or whatever it is) "beast" by proximity.

 

But actually, since the Zariman lore is part of that, it must go back to the Ember Prime Codex, Nov 2013 (plus a good bit before that).

 

So I think we can safely say the Avatar/Evangelion concept was something they seriously considered, at the latest, some time roundabout the middle of 2013. Given the hint of the "Iron Man" concept in the "we built a suit around them" in the Excalibur Prime codex, it seems that they were still vacillating between the two ideas roundabout the middle of November.  It's conceivable that they may have still thought of the Tenno as the Zariman kids but physically inside the wfs, or that the two ideas were fighting for dominance roundabout that time (at the latest).

 

(I'd guess they probably starting switching more to the Avatar/Evangelion rationale roundabout the time they were starting to get into the Chinese thing, and thinking about what they needed to establish WF in China.)

Edited December 9, 2015 by Omnimorph

[GhostLacuna]

If all you're saying is that there aren't enough customization options, or customization options of a certain quality, or that you haven't found some combination of features that represents the personality you feel you are in the game; if your complaint is that DE in that case has failed to provide you with sufficient options ... if that's all you're saying, or if it's just a simple case of you not liking the art design in terms of which all the given options are set, well then, sheeit, you could have said that without damning DE to hell and back :)   Is it such a great sin that a character creator, on release, has some limitations in the options and combinations of personality expressions that you can portray? Or that the quality isn't always well-written or whatever?  What were you expecting from a game, War and Peace? How many games come up to your standard - one or two out of all the games that have ever been made? That's some pretty high standard :)

 

On the other hand, if what you mean is that you'd prefer to have no pinning down at all of the physical nature of the Tenno, and would have preferred to keep the question open and free-floating for ever, while of course you're entitled to be pissed off by that, and your upset is nobody's business but your own, it doesn't make sense for you to criticize DE for pinning down the lore in that way. They were never likely to remain too much in that undecided state indefinitely. It would be, I submit, an unrealistic expectation to expect them to do so, so you can't complain that you've wasted any time.

 

On the other other hand, I think we exchanged earlier and I accepted that if it's just as simple as your being creeped out by playing someone who's physically young-looking (and if this isn't outweighed, in your mind, by the fact that they're psychologically old, experienced, and as blank slates with customizable features, are meant by DE to be capable of representing whatever emotional tone you've always played the game with) then of course there's nothing one can say to that, it's just a given fact of your preference.  Of course.

 

De gustibus and all that :D

 

Sorry Omni but you are still missing my point. 

 

But at least you are trying to understand it. 

 

First of i have no problem with the lore or the storyline itself. 

 

I have a problem with an npc being "me" 

 

it could have been a computer chip, an octopus, and old man or a new born baby for all i care. 

 

I have Zero connection and rapport with that npc either way. 

 

More or less customization option will change nothing. 

 

Its a predefined character that cut the connection between me and the game world. 

 

As for its quality i read war and peace in 6 grade when the others read huckleberry finn and found it refreshing then compared to other literature and i am currently reading Ulysses.

 

But while i enjoy that sort of literature that does not mean all writing must hold up to that standard. 

 

No matter how many times people say that the kid is older then they look there onliners and the predefined choices during the second quest showed nothing but the kind of choices and dialogue you could expect from a child. 

 

If they wanted us to have any kind of rapport to the kids there should have been more choices when it comes to their answers. 

 

Not the regular pre pubertal and teenage choices that we have now. 

 

But as i have tried to explain in vain over and over its not the story per se that ticks me of. 

 

Its that i am forced to use an avatar that never will be me. 

 

I would never had answered in such a inane way as the predefined choices DE made yet i should somehow identify as that kid....

 

I started to play games when commandore 64 and nes where new. 

 

When i started to play video game rpgs there where no customization, no voices and yet it worked out fine. 

 

Now i am forced to have an avatar in a game where i never wanted nor needed one. 

 

Its DEs game they can bring out the physical representation of the operator all they want. 

 

But for people like me who are old enough to be the father of such a kid its simply off putting to see the kid sit in that chair. 

[Duch99pl]

I am generally dissapointed about the guest, and the whole operator thingy , to  some degree.

 

1st. Stalkers story

 

so yeah. he is just a tenno who went mad after discovering the truth, thanks lotus

 

2nd.  Operator's lines

 

honestly screw that guy, girl or whatever it is, the things it says, just make me wanna kill him on the spot. 'My warframe is strong' , 'For the lotus' . 'We fought hard' , 'Corpus remind me of orokin'. JUST KILL IT, KILL IT WITH FIRE FOR GODS SAKE.

 

3rd. Stalker armor, syndana and war

 

they are in a damm bundle, enough said really, I honestly care only about the syndana, but I cant buy it as its only in a bundle. Thanks DE, and dont get me started on War, which you can get only from stalker, if RNGezus loves you, and you need to sacrifice Broken War, which we wont get until another Sortie Season ;-;

[Omnimorph]

Sorry Omni but you are still missing my point. 

 

I think I've addressed all your points actually.

 

As I've always said, I'm somewhat sympathetic to some aspects of what you're saying (particularly the in-game Tenno VO, I think that was far, far too much of a narrowing-down and specification, and not in a helpful direction, I think it's definitely the one biggish mistake DE made in all this, all it's done is keep reverberating something that would have fairly quickly settled without it).  But with the rest we'll have to agree to disagree.  I'm actually pretty old too, but I just don't have a problem with any of this at all - but that could be because I've never had kids.

 

But I also think we've exhausted the topic :)

[CrazyCatLad]

+1

 

Get rid of the kid-avatars. They're terrible. Entirely. Harsh but after 2.5 years, it is deserved.

 

I'd rather every Warframe be a Tenno - an individual Tenno who entered the void a human/orokin but came out a Tenno (They can still have entered the void on the ship Ten-Zero yadda yadda).  Their bio-corruption that coated them was called a Warframe.  The Orokin wo/man that entered the void IS the Warframe/Tenno.

 

That's the lore I've wanted since Week 1 of playing. Not this. Never this.

 

We can switch who we play since it is a merely a game.

[LeaserResael]

It's quite simple, the player is the Tenno, the thing in the chair. But the personality of that Tenno is whatever the hell personality you've been playing as all along (i.e. its personality is a blank slate, that's why you can customize it, to make it look as close to the personality you've been playing as all this time).

That Tenno, with that personality (i.e. the thing you're make-believing that you are) has been piloting warframes just like Jake Sully piloted the Navi avatar in James Cameron's Avatar - IOW you, the Tenno, that Tenno in the chair, have been experiencing the world through the "eyes" (sensors, whatever) of your warframe, you've been experiencing the thrill of leaping around using the "muscles" of your warframe, the feeling of power of firing off bolts of energy through it, etc. The warframe is a techno-organic golem (as Silent Mobius said) - it's got a bit of life, but on its own, without you piloting it, without you "IN" it, it's got only very, very rudimentary intelligence, maybe like an insect or something like that. Nothing much has changed, except you now understand that your natural physical body was in a VR pod on the moon, all the while you thought you were "in" your warframe. All the character and personality you've played with up till now, nothing has changed about that at all.

This is the canon that DE have given us - it makes sense, it's coherent, maybe there are a few loose ends here and there, but generally it's a pretty good lore, and quite open (in the sense that it's a setting for you to have whatever personality you want to play as).

No, sorry but you can't tell me "...the personality of that Tenno is whatever the hell personality you've been playing all along" when the operators have very clear predefined lines created by DE. Predefined lines that talk about the corpus, grineer and several other things. They could've left the operators as a blank character, not letting us customize them, so their personality would be ours, but they chose to make them this way on purpose.

Like I said, DE is now focusing on the story, so all previous "You're the Tenno" and "You're a space ninja" references don't really matter anymore.

Unless DE comes out and says that we're meant to be the operator (which I don't think they will, but if they do, it wouldn't honestly bother me) I still stand that the way they defined the operators by giving them a predefined personality while keeping the Warframes a mystery can easily be their way of separating the two.

You still control the warframe, not the operator. The ones without any personality are the warframes, and it just so happens that we control them.

About your explanation regarding the operator's feels when thinking they were the warframes... We still don't now a lot of things about that.

Who's to say that when they were in that "piloting" as you call it, their minds were fused with the Warframe's and so their decisions weren't trully theirs? (That's why we, as the warframe could and can choose to help the corpus or the grineer if we want, but the operators are constantly talking about how bad they both are).

Now they are not sleeping anymore in a pod, they are now aware they're not the warframes, that was intentional by DE.

So in the end, I will still play and I'm not mad if DE says we're meant to be the operators. I liked the quest btw, I just think about it in a different way than most.

Edited December 9, 2015 by LeaserResael

[BlackHole777]

"How the story ended"

Uhh how is the story over?

[Omnimorph]

No, sorry but you can't tell me "...the personality of that Tenno is whatever the hell personality you've been playing all along" when the operators have very clear predefined lines created by DE. Predefined lines that talk about the corpus, grineer and several other things. They could've left the operators as a blank character, not letting us customize them, so their personality would be ours, but they chose to make them this way on purpose.

 

 

The types of "predefined lines" you're talking about have never prevented you from imbuing your gameplay as Tenno/Operator (whatever that is) with whatever emotion or personality tone you see fit. 

 

But nothing that's happened since the reveal prevents you from imbuing that thing in the chair with exactly the same personality that you've always played with.  Do you tend to be a mischievous trickster, or a character with a nervous tic, or a character pretty much like yourself, or a stone cold killer, or ... ?  Then that thing in the chair has that character - that's the point of it, to be a blank slate for you to imbue with whatever personality you like, and to make it look visually like it has that personality, that character.

 

The only one thing that's "forced" on you is that whatever personality you imbue it with, it's always going to have a body that looks young biologically.  But what's the big deal about that?  It may look young, but it's pretty old subjectively, it's an experienced person, it's participated in the building of an entire warrior culture, slaughtered thousands of creatures in glorious combat - and on top of that, it can have, if you want it to, precisely the over-arching personality that you've always played warframe as a Tenno with.

 

What would be the point of a reveal that revealed a further blank character no different from the blank character you've already been playing before the reveal? Just with a leather jacket and mask?  What would that achieve beyond what you already had?  An only-slightly-more-pinned-down thing than we already had?  Hardly worth a big reveal, right?

 

 

 

Like I said, DE is now focusing on the story, so all previous "You're the Tenno" and "You're a space ninja" references don't really matter anymore.

Unless DE comes out and says that we're meant to be the operator (which I don't think they will, but if they do, it wouldn't honestly bother me) I still stand that the way they defined the operators by giving them a predefined personality while keeping the Warframes a mystery can easily be their way of separating the two.

You still control the warframe, not the operator. The ones without any personality are the warframes, and it just so happens that we control them.

 

No, no, you the player have always controlled the Tenno, the Operator of the warframe it's just that you never knew all that time what you were, what you looked like, what sense of "in" you were "in the warframe" with (whether like Iron Man armor or energy being pervading some sort of construct).

 

 

About your explanation regarding the operator's feels when thinking they were the warframes... We still don't now a lot of things about that.

 

Er, we've just had a huge lore reveal about precisely what's going on there, and the situation is closely analogous to Avatar and to the Evangelion anime.  It's quite straightforward and precise what you are in-game and who's controlling what.  It's quite straighforward and precise that there's been consciousness transference from feeling like you are in your native physical body to feeling like you are in the warframe, seeing through its eyes, etc.  That is the purport of the whole spiel that follows "I thought I was ...",it lays it all out, there's very little ambiguity there (again, that was the whole point of the thing,to pin it down in some respects).

 

Obviously you don't have to like it and you're free to ignore it, but it is what it is.  So far as the game is concerned, you are AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN the thing in the chair, only before you didn't know it, now you do. And  that thing in the chair has always piloted warframes Avatar-style, only before it thought it was "in" the warframe in some sense, whereas now it realizes that was a sort of virtual reality wifi connection to the techno-organic golem that the warframe is.  It still feels like it's "in" the warframe, but now it knows it's actually in a VR pod in the orbiter, and it only feels like it's in the warframe, or is the warframe.

 

And since you've always been that thing in the chair, that thing in the chair has the very properties that you've imbued your gameplay with (or rather, it can, if you let it - it's purely up to you).  You can read something into the thing in the chair like "emo kid" and reject it, but you've got to realize that it isn't intrinsically an "emo kid".  That's just something you're choosing to read into it, for god knows what reason.  It's intrinsically NOTHING, other than physically young-looking.  It's a blank slate for you to imbue with whatever personality you want. All you have to do is grab the customization options of the thing in the chair and make it your own, force it to have (psychologically via its looks, as much as possible within the options DE have given you) the character that has always controlled the warframes you've played, the thing you've already always been roleplaying, the thing that's always been gruff, eager, kind, vicious, world-weary and cynical, etc., etc. (whatever feeling tone you've had when playing the game).

Edited December 9, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Pavelord]

Pointless. Its not about not understanding the lore, its about not liking the outcome. I didn't get that Warframes are puppets from Hunhow, I got it from the established relationship itself. And I don't want puppets or braindead pet Warframes, I want suits(Remember DE, "Suit to kill"? Remember the Excalibur description calling it a suit?), and to take the Tenno out of the chair. Not relegated to these awful Tenno avatars we have now though. I will take an obscured silhouette of a fully grown person/s at best. I personally never wanted to see let alone customize how the Tenno behind the frames looked honestly, ditto with their voices.

Your meta analogy is also un-amusing, and a poly Tenno preference flies in the face of this dream projection nonsense flavor babble(I'm more in the camp that believes changing  warframe avatars should just be a mere gameplay feature though, no needed lore explanation behind it).  In addition, you are ironically dreaming and extracting your own dreamed up headcanon to concoct excuses.

 

 

Definitely not pointless, if you have been reading in the forums for a long time as I'm sure you have, you know there are players that don't distinguish tenno from warframe, what about the people that may be confused, the game experience could still be save for them, if you understand it and dislike it still, I respect that.

 

I'm going to correct a typo in my previous post, I meant "Now we know we wear them mentally not physically", the frame remains a suit, the established relationship is not of a puppet, since when does a puppeteer sees the world from the eyes of a puppet and sense the enviroment from the skin of the puppet.

 

This kids may not be facing death, but they face the responsability of the missions and the consequences of their actions.

 

And I'm not dreaming headcannons nor making excuses, in the quest Lotus explicitly tells us were are living a "second lucid dream", so prior to update 18 we have been playing this "second dream", guess what you did?, you personalize your frames and came up with whatever ideas you had, that is your second dream. I hope you can reconcile with the game, even if you don't like the kid, it would be a shame to lose fellow players over a story arc.

 

 

 

On a different note, has anyone seen "Being John Malkovich"?

[Omnimorph]

I'm going to correct a typo in my previous post, I meant "Now we know we wear them mentally not physically", the frame remains a suit, the established relationship is not of a puppet, since when does a puppeteer sees the world from the eyes of a puppet and sense the enviroment from the skin of the puppet.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that people who are saying "puppet" still really aren't getting the full significance of it - ditto people who talk about remote control and stuff.

 

I mean yeah, it's a puppet in a sense and it's remote control in a sense - but only in the blandest, most abstract sense.  The richness of subjective experience that's been proposed for the Tenno piloting the warframe - of actually feeling like they physically are the warframe, or are physically in the warframe, looking out, seeing the world though it's "eyes" (whatever its external visual sensors are), touching things with its hands, feeling the sensation of movement through the warframe's internal sensors (whatever they may be). 

 

I just don't get how anyone could really understand this and not be on board - barring understandable things like being creeped out by playing something that looks young, or just not being concerned by the lore at all but annoyed that there's something that appears to be a kid in their Orbiter. 

 

But surely, anyone who has any sort of feel for roleplay - it's just crystal clear that it's a fairly powerful lore to immerse yourself in.

 

(It's just those damn in-game VOs that have really added a lot of confusion and unnecessary irritation, which makes it difficult to get people to focus on the good aspect of what's been revealed.  The VOs aren't a bad idea per se, they just needed a lot more work in the scripting before they were released.)