Why I Dislike The New Quest/tenno Thing (Spoilers)

[SirSleepy]

Read the RHINO Prime codex. Warframes are more than just puppets. And the Tenno? It's supposed to be YOU. though I 100% agree their lines aren't very fitting sometimes. Once it's refined it'll be better I'm sure. Maybe even get to pick personalities

[Omnimorph]

 

The story in Warframe could have gone on just fine without this arbitrary puppet show setup.

 

Again, coulda shoulda woulda.  I'd quibble with "arbitrary" though.  Clearly it's not totally arbitrary to have this Avatar/Evangelion-like scenario, because a) it's a philosophically interesting concept in and of itself, and it doesn't suddenly become boring just because it's been done already in some variations, and b) it speaks not only to the philosophical question of identity, as aforesaid, but is also self-referential, which doesn't always work, and can sometimes be pretentious, but works in this context if you've been playing Warframe a lot. 

 

You don't like the lore change - fair enough.  But you must realize you don't have an objective leg to stand on in any of these "criticisms of DE" that you've been making, and also that your opinion just isn't popular, and the few people who share your opinion are unlikely to change DE's mind. I don't know if you enjoy feeling like a lone crank in the wilderness, but that's sort of the fate you're setting up for yourself. 

 

As I said in our very first interaction way back - why not just give the bloody thing a chance and get into the spirit of it, instead of being that huffy kid with his back turned to everyone else? 

 

Or you can just, you know, leave, if you really, really hate it that much. Maybe give it a break?  I'm sure that if you've been playing this game long enough, you must be familiar with the phenomenon of disliking some change, or getting bored with the game, then suddenly at some point a month or two later, getting a hankering for it again, because there's nothing else quite like it on the market, with quite this combination of features, and it really scratches a certain itch - and then falling head over heels in love with it all over again?  Come on, you must have experienced that :)

Edited December 11, 2015 by [DE]Danielle

[Soju.]

The one thing I liked about this game, you can decide what you are - you are a pile of goo, something omnicient controlling your Warframe WITH its emotions. No its gone. Completely. You can slide dash around you Tenno in your Oversized Liset for a lifetime. Your Tenno can be activated in Missions for a huge laser out of his chest, but where are you? What happened to the player? You were the one controlling the frames, not that guy there! He controls the frames, you just watch. You are HIS puppet now. He even talks to you ( thats what made me angry ). He says things, me as a player would never say, he takes your Role. Your Role as the Warframe, the force what makes these things work,  the things you play as.

RPG... unconfirmed.

 

I agree with you completely.

Edited December 11, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[StabbyTentacles]

 

Or you can just, you know, leave, if you really, really hate it that much. Maybe give it a break?  I'm sure...

Don't do this, to anybody really; even somebody who fails to see your perceptive insight.

(Do what I do, see it my way now!!! Or leave!!! Convincing stuff. Not really.)

[Omnimorph]

Don't do this, to anybody really; even somebody who fails to see your perceptive insight.

(Do what I do, see it my way now!!! Or leave!!! Convincing stuff. Not really.)

 

I'm not saying it as some sort of silly ultimatum, and I don't think you can accuse me of not patiently trying to explain my position!

 

It's more just an honest shrug of the shoulders really.  I dunno, how long can you keep on playing something you fundamentally don't enjoy - and why would you do such a thing anyway?

[HAMMERSAREGREAT]

I have only one thing I dislike about it. The voices. Ack. They are cringy as F***. Why can't we be mute? Or at least make the voices more damaged.

[StabbyTentacles]

I'm not saying it as some sort of silly ultimatum, and I don't think you can accuse me of not patiently trying to explain my position!

 

It's more just an honest shrug of the shoulders really.  I dunno, how long can you keep on playing something you fundamentally don't enjoy - and why would you do such a thing anyway?

Conclusions I'm pretty sure anybody can draw for themselves. shrugs

[Omnimorph]

I have only one thing I dislike about it. The voices. Ack. They are cringy as F***. Why can't we be mute? Or at least make the voices more damaged.

 

You can mute the in-game Tenno VO in audio options.

 

I think a lot of players would probably like a) more voices and b) more voices that represent a somewhat more mature type of Tenno (as the lore requires they should be).  If they had that, I'd probably keep it on, because I personally don't mind VO that represents your "thoughts".

[KorbanGado]

-snip-

 

 

-snip-

Holy crow you two. I mean, geez. One doesn't like his stuff, let him not like it - some people just don't like things. I understand you want him to hate it for a "legitimate" reason or whatever, but sometimes you don't have a legitimate reason to hate things.

That being said:

Ember Prime's entry implies quite heavily the connection between the tenno being kids - that's not headcannon, that's been in the game for a while (as stated by various people). ("...'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'...", and also referencing the severely damaged face of the one being questioned as a result of trying to comfort the kids)

Rhino Prime's entry indicates that could be more to the frames then just being an empty shell - as witnessed in the deadly effect on the research crew, until it suddenly became pacified in the morgue with the Zariman crew.

All of that being said, you can still turn off the operator from chiming in (it's in the options), and it doesn't really prevent you from pretending you are whatever frame you are pretending to always be - as it's essentially all that the operator is doing anyways. Can you still be upset that it didn't go the way you wanted? Sure, that's your right of being free minded - but that doesn't mean anyone is trying to brainwash anyone. Let's try and keep it kind of civil eh? It's not a he-said she-said argument, it's a debate about personal opinions.

Could they act like a child? Sure, they could. Maybe their awake brain isn't the same as their sleep brain - I don't know, they aren't human anyways (unless Orokin are just "space humans") and that was before getting warp-mutated. Master Chief was a kid, but you don't see him not acting like a man and saving the universe form the Audrey II's ugly brother. You don't see the Goonies drop the ball and go home crying. You don't see Rudy from monster squad not murdering half the monsters single-handedly. I personally think too much emphasis is getting placed on the whole 'kid' thing - but that's just my opinion. Anyone can (and someone assuredly does) disagree with it, and that's okay too.

[UrielColtan]

My posts have been exactly as long as they needed to be to answer yours with (I flatter myself) a truly herculean amount of patience and some detail.

 

 

 

 

"We didn't need to see ..."  Is that the royal "we"? What if someone wants to see?  You don't want to be, you know, forcing your opinion on them, do you?

 

Other than that, I don't have much of a gripe with your junior Roger Ebert comments. They could have done it differently, and it might have been preferable to x, y, z.  Noted.  If that's all your criticism amounts to, then I don't see why you've been making such a fuss.

 

 

 

 

Again, coulda shoulda woulda.  I'd quibble with "arbitrary" though.  Clearly it's not totally arbitrary to have this Avatar/Evangelion-like scenario, because a) it's a philosophically interesting concept in and of itself, and it doesn't suddenly become boring just because it's been done already in some variations, and b) it speaks not only to the philosophical question of identity, as aforesaid, but is also self-referential, which doesn't always work, and can sometimes be pretentious, but works in this context if you've been playing Warframe a lot. 

 

You don't like the lore change - fair enough.  But you must realize you don't have an objective leg to stand on in any of these "criticisms of DE" that you've been making, and also that your opinion just isn't popular, and the few people who share your opinion are unlikely to change DE's mind. I don't know if you enjoy feeling like a lone crank in the wilderness, but that's sort of the fate you're setting up for yourself. 

 

As I said in our very first interaction way back - why not just give the bloody thing a chance and get into the spirit of it, instead of being that huffy kid with his back turned to everyone else? 

 

Or you can just, you know, leave, if you really, really hate it that much. Maybe give it a break?  I'm sure that if you've been playing this game long enough, you must be familiar with the phenomenon of disliking some change, or getting bored with the game, then suddenly at some point a month or two later, getting a hankering for it again, because there's nothing else quite like it on the market, with quite this combination of features, and it really scratches a certain itch - and then falling head over heels in love with it all over again?  Come on, you must have experienced that :)

 

Your posts have been a long waste of time, and makes scrolling on my phone quite the chore.

I've never seen someone who needed so many words just to say "I can't stand differing opinions".

The person from my side of the screen does not care one iota about what you need to see, I only say that not everyone needs or wants to see what you want to see to be able to enjoy a story, and that a story can actually go on without giving Warframe swapping, a lore explanation, just like how changing the kids into completely different looking people, does not require a lore explanation behind that.

You can keep the puppeteer children, but I prefer another option. You apparently can't enjoy the doll show without indoctrinating everyone to like it though.

If you think DE won't listen to people like me and offer another option to choose from, then why are you not confident in letting that pudding be its own proof? Why the need for this vehement inculcation? I see you responding to nigh anyone who has even one unkind word to say about this quests reveal in practically every topic that brings it up.

 

Holy crow you two. I mean, geez. One doesn't like his stuff, let him not like it - some people just don't like things. I understand you want him to hate it for a "legitimate" reason or whatever, but sometimes you don't have a legitimate reason to hate things.

That being said:

Ember Prime's entry implies quite heavily the connection between the tenno being kids - that's not headcannon, that's been in the game for a while (as stated by various people). ("...'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'...", and also referencing the severely damaged face of the one being questioned as a result of trying to comfort the kids)

Rhino Prime's entry indicates that could be more to the frames then just being an empty shell - as witnessed in the deadly effect on the research crew, until it suddenly became pacified in the morgue with the Zariman crew.

All of that being said, you can still turn off the operator from chiming in (it's in the options), and it doesn't really prevent you from pretending you are whatever frame you are pretending to always be - as it's essentially all that the operator is doing anyways. Can you still be upset that it didn't go the way you wanted? Sure, that's your right of being free minded - but that doesn't mean anyone is trying to brainwash anyone. Let's try and keep it kind of civil eh? It's not a he-said she-said argument, it's a debate about personal opinions.

Could they act like a child? Sure, they could. Maybe their awake brain isn't the same as their sleep brain - I don't know, they aren't human anyways (unless Orokin are just "space humans") and that was before getting warp-mutated. Master Chief was a kid, but you don't see him not acting like a man and saving the universe form the Audrey II's ugly brother. You don't see the Goonies drop the ball and go home crying. You don't see Rudy from monster squad not murdering half the monsters single-handedly. I personally think too much emphasis is getting placed on the whole 'kid' thing - but that's just my opinion. Anyone can (and someone assuredly does) disagree with it, and that's okay too.

 

Don't think I've ever seen such a perfect culmination of lazy and wasted effort to resolve a debate. Its amazing how you typed all that only to say absolutely nothing at all due to such a slipshod investigation there.

Edited December 12, 2015 by UrielColtan

[BIGBushido]

Personally, that fact that my Warframe is just a puppet controlled by a kid just irks me.

 

Like for example, it just takes away the reason for female frames to be..... Female. You're a puppet!

 

YOU DON'T NEED BOOBS!

 

YOU DON'T NEED DAT &#!!

 

 

It just takes away the personality each frame gives off from their actions, their posing.

 

Valkyr gives off the berserker and feral vibe.

 

Mirage/Nyx/Ember being sassy.

 

Atlas acting like a boxer.

 

Nekros acting like a Chaos Space Marine.

 

Ash being an actual ninja.

 

Loki all gentleman-like.

 

Mesa/Ivara/Eqiunox/Limbo are well... Jojo-ish.

 

 

All of that is gone now because they are just puppets controlled by a semi-gender neutral looking kid. Seriously, look closely at the model....

 

At the same time, warframes being puppets sorta contradicts some ingame things such as bleeding, poison, and confusion. Why would a warframe feel that? Why would a warframe bleed if it has no blood? Be poisoned if it doesn't have any internal organs? Be confused if it has no mind of it's own?

 

Which brings me to my biggest gripe. WHATS THE POINT OF PUTTING WARFRAMES IN CRYO-STASIS!?

[Shad0wWatcher]

Well i think this game will die soon... tell me who really thinks that a game where you are a kid that plays with giant puppets is cool?? 

Mobile Suit Gundam

Mobile Suit Gundam Seed/ Destiny

Those animes are awesome and basically have the same concept as what you just said.

 

Nuf said...

[Avrose]

Personally, that fact that my Warframe is just a puppet controlled by a kid just irks me.

 

Like for example, it just takes away the reason for female frames to be..... Female. You're a puppet!

 

YOU DON'T NEED BOOBS!

 

YOU DON'T NEED DAT !!

 

 

It just takes away the personality each frame gives off from their actions, their posing.

 

Valkyr gives off the berserker and feral vibe.

 

Mirage/Nyx/Ember being sassy.

 

Atlas acting like a boxer.

 

Nekros acting like a Chaos Space Marine.

 

Ash being an actual ninja.

 

Loki all gentleman-like.

 

Mesa/Ivara/Eqiunox/Limbo are well... Jojo-ish.

 

 

All of that is gone now because they are just puppets controlled by a semi-gender neutral looking kid. Seriously, look closely at the model....

 

At the same time, warframes being puppets sorta contradicts some ingame things such as bleeding, poison, and confusion. Why would a warframe feel that? Why would a warframe bleed if it has no blood? Be poisoned if it doesn't have any internal organs? Be confused if it has no mind of it's own?

 

Which brings me to my biggest gripe. WHATS THE POINT OF PUTTING WARFRAMES IN CRYO-STASIS!?

Because warframes have a personality of their own and are living tissue at the very lest that is not immortal and the Second dream was only made possible by making the child think they were the warframe waking up.

[The_Unlife]

Holy crow you two. I mean, geez. One doesn't like his stuff, let him not like it - some people just don't like things. I understand you want him to hate it for a "legitimate" reason or whatever, but sometimes you don't have a legitimate reason to hate things.

That being said:

Ember Prime's entry implies quite heavily the connection between the tenno being kids - that's not headcannon, that's been in the game for a while (as stated by various people). ("...'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'...", and also referencing the severely damaged face of the one being questioned as a result of trying to comfort the kids)

Rhino Prime's entry indicates that could be more to the frames then just being an empty shell - as witnessed in the deadly effect on the research crew, until it suddenly became pacified in the morgue with the Zariman crew.

All of that being said, you can still turn off the operator from chiming in (it's in the options), and it doesn't really prevent you from pretending you are whatever frame you are pretending to always be - as it's essentially all that the operator is doing anyways. Can you still be upset that it didn't go the way you wanted? Sure, that's your right of being free minded - but that doesn't mean anyone is trying to brainwash anyone. Let's try and keep it kind of civil eh? It's not a he-said she-said argument, it's a debate about personal opinions.

Could they act like a child? Sure, they could. Maybe their awake brain isn't the same as their sleep brain - I don't know, they aren't human anyways (unless Orokin are just "space humans") and that was before getting warp-mutated. Master Chief was a kid, but you don't see him not acting like a man and saving the universe form the Audrey II's ugly brother. You don't see the Goonies drop the ball and go home crying. You don't see Rudy from monster squad not murdering half the monsters single-handedly. I personally think too much emphasis is getting placed on the whole 'kid' thing - but that's just my opinion. Anyone can (and someone assuredly does) disagree with it, and that's okay too.

Bonus points to you, since you mentioned Monster Squad (Awesome movie)

[Keltik0ne]

I'm ok with the quest tbh, I'm more than ok with my operator, who says derpy things constantly ("I've deployed your archwing!" but I'm in a t4 void cap ?) in Megans voice.

 

It's could be a coincidence, but I suspect the devs made them derpy on purpose.

[Toran]

Wow, folks get really emotional here.

 

After 2,700+ hours with this game I'm glad it receives more core-lore and cinematic depth. Can't tell I'm especially unhappy with the Tennos being Kids. Could have been anything, some A.I., dried out old space-vampires, intelligent goo, Cthulu's younger sister or the tiny alien from M.I.B. sitting in a Warframe's head pulling and pushing levers...

 

So it's Kids from a military black-site. Kids are ok. Kids are hope, Kids can grow.

 

So it's one mystery down, but tons of mysteries left. I'm looking forward.

[Tsuk1ya]

DE have mode no mistake the new stuff is awesome

[KorbanGado]

Don't think I've ever seen such a perfect culmination of lazy and wasted effort to resolve a debate. Its amazing how you typed all that only to say absolutely nothing at all due to such a slipshod investigation there.

   I am a pretty lazy guy, but I tend to like to work smarter. Honestly, I was just hoping to get you two to settle down a little so that the thread wouldn't get locked out and all the (yet to be) opinions lost - since when two people start going at each other is when things like that happen normally. I was also trying to make that post still on topic, which is everything after trying to get you folks to chill a little for the sake of the thread.

[Zevroid]

I have only one thing I dislike about it. The voices. Ack. They are cringy as F***. Why can't we be mute? Or at least make the voices more damaged.

Like I keep saying, voice options for specific personalities would be nice. Stoic voices, crazy voices, sarcastic voices, etc. All with appropriate lines to go with them, of course.

[[DE]Danielle]

   I am a pretty lazy guy, but I tend to like to work smarter. Honestly, I was just hoping to get you two to settle down a little so that the thread wouldn't get locked out and all the (yet to be) opinions lost - since when two people start going at each other is when things like that happen normally. I was also trying to make that post still on topic, which is everything after trying to get you folks to chill a little for the sake of the thread.

 

The thread will not be locked at this time. But if it is unable to remain on-topic and constructive after some rigorous scrubbing to remove all of the personal attacks, dev bashing, off-topic banter, and just generally unpleasant commentary, it will be. Please, for the love of Lotus, do not insult one another and keep the discussion civil. We all want to share our views and opinions on the outcome of the Second Dream, respect that some may disagree with you and respond politely. 

[mrecentric]

I somewhat agree with the OP. I really don't care for the avatar system. I DEFINITELY don't want me talking to myself in a mission, especially when I'm at least as annoying as Ordis. I can see why DE did it (Hey! Lets introduce avatars so we can eventually make money by selling more options for those!). Please give us the option to be make grown-up avatars (teaching little kids to murder is a bit unsettling).

Edited December 11, 2015 by mrecentric

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

Personally I would be ok with the kid if he/she was at least in the suit maybe the frames are symbiotes (think venom from spiderman) so it makes since how they breathe bleed etc that's how I will be ok with current story. Other wise yes I prefer a person in the suit as it makes me care more about the person not the break the 4th wall in a sense and say hey you the guy behind the tv you control the frame. But also stocker has no operater so maybe that's what umbra is if that's the case I need a umbra asap

Edited December 11, 2015 by (PS4)Ninja_Reaper_916

[DiosGX]

I'd definitely like to remove the operators self-speaking. It's kind of weird. I don't think it needs to be there at all. Or at least it should be phrases the player can control.

 

Don Bluth said it best in his commentary track on the Secret of NIMH on DVD: "It's better to suggest, than to define."

 

I preferred the old mystery to the lore. But I don't dislike this either. o3o

[VampirePirate]

<<snipped portion>>

 

Now, Warframes are just empty shells. They all have the same voice now for me, they all do the same, they all look the same. I cant emphatize with them anymore. They are just puppets now, the lore of the game lost its touch for me.

 

I want my silent heros back. I want the old game back.

 

 

<snipped portion>>

 

Please DE, you made a huge mistake.

I understand every word.  I see what you mean, especially when you felt that immersed in the game for such a long time.

 

With me, All I ever cared about was playing the game and enjoying the warframes.  I never care much or thought much about who was inside the warframes.  Also, I got the sense (since the game came out) that the warframes were remote controlled.  There were some things that Lotus said that led me to that conclusion, so I was not surprised when i played Second Dream.  My reaction was more like, "Oh yeah.  That's right.  The lost children.  Those are the Tenno.  Now we finally get to explore more of that part of the story.  Cool."

 

I personally never felt or believed that I the player had anything to do with this video game world.  I'm just a gamer enjoying this video game for entertainment.   To think or feel anything beyond that, to me, would be something like that of a first person game, and warframe is not first person.  Anytime i play a third person game, my immersion or sense of it is at a limit.  So when considering Second Dream and now customizing your Tenno, to me it feels like i have another character to use.  To me, warframe was never about avatars and pretending to be within the game.  For me it was simply playing the game and using whatever character i chose to play the game with, just like any other game out there that is third person.   I personally feel like, if I the player was an active part of the warframe universe, the immersion would be too invasive and ruin my gaming hobby.  I guess for some, it was more of a personal thing where people can pretend to be a warframe.  I just never got that impression about warframe, not ever since it came out.  (Also I don't like for my identity to be defined by a video game, so I'm fine with Second Dream.)

 

However, I believe I understand the disappointment you are experiencing.  i just don't think it is the end of the world for you concerning the lore of the game.  Warframe will simply be no different than what most third person games are, limited immersion.  For me, when i walk away form the computer, i forget about warframe and do other things with my life.  I'm not worried about who i was when i played the game.  To me it's just a video game.

 

I also don't think the DE made a mistake.  I think they made a decisions and went forward with it, but they did it knowing that they cannot please everyone.  There are things about the game i am disappointing in myself, and i also do not agree with them.  (Melee system for example).  However, Warframe is perhaps the most satisfying online game i have ever played (and i have been let down by many), and I will still support DE for being unique Devs that fear not going against the grain of the current corporate-ruled gaming industry of today.

 

So my question to you is, what are you going to do now after all this?  (I only read your original post and did not bother reading other people's posts).  Are you quitting the game or do you still have hopes for it?

[Eminem2420]

Eh, i rather enjoyed the Second Dream quest.