Do Not Rework Banshee

[hukurokuju5]

how is sonar inconsistent?

 

 

for Silence, keep range at 100% ( 20 m )  and not above to utilize the stun more effectively.

 

100% or even 80ish is the sweetspot for being able to chain stun with silence.

 

if you go to like 145%  the range is too far for most maps and will stun enemies at a rannge that doesnt help you at all ..  this is why most players complain about silence being ineffective.  

 

you can re stun an infinite number of times with silence, as long as enemies leave and reenter the silence zone.  

this can be achieved by:

1) you moving away and then moving so they re enter the zone

2) you can push them out of your zone (sonicboom) and then move so they re enter the zone

 

playstyle:

constant movement or edge dancing enemies to keep them stunned is key to using silence to efffectively nullify most enemy threat.  sonar effectively lets you eliminate enemies quickly so that enemies cant retaliate in the window silence presents.

 

 

***    Banshee's first, second, and third skills ( as well as her augments) are, in my opinion, one of the most interesting skill sets in warframe that encourage a high risk/ high reward , super active playstyle while simultaneously offering a wide range of customizability to her builds  ***

 

 

 

 

_______

 

but yes, i think soundquake could use some love  

[Scytze]

All what sound quake does most of the times is just make your Banshee bend over for your enemies and die.

[Noble_Cactus]

Sound quake is actually amazing team support. Especially in raids. Stun lock the majority of enemies in the area for a long time. Very useful.

 

Yes, but it's incredibly boring. Are you the one playing Banshee in raids/alerts? It's a boring job sitting with your hands on the ground doing nothing while your friends get to shoot and kill. One that everyone appreciates, of course, but one that I'm sure most Banshees would rather not do. Kind of like Desecrate.

 

Banshee doesn't need a complete overhaul, but she does need to be more fun. Changing Sound Quake -somehow- to be more engaging would be a big first step.

[climatiseur]

No, she is really not that great right now, and it has nothing to do with "effectiveness", although I do like how you instantly jump towards insulting the skill of players.

 

Her 2 is still busted and sometimes won't work, which AUTOMATICALLY means I don't want to ever use her, as it's quite a useful skill(And really her only useful one that I can't get anywhere else) and it's now useless.  When it DOES work, it's a great skill, but...that's when it works.  Her 1 is alright but it's obviously a skill that was made in the early days.  Her 3 is just..pointless(I guess it CCs?  I guess?  Not well enough to be worth it though).  And her 4 used to be a "meh, alright" ult until nullifiers came around, now it can be downright detrimental due to the long time it takes to end it(Yes, in some situations it won't be a bother, but it once again narrows the already narrow usage it had).  It also seems to be one of the fastest draining abilities in the game...she doesn't even have an amazing power stat.

 

Just because you've become used to her faults does not make her a good frame.  I want to point out that Limbo and Ember were higher on that list, two frames that are frequently passed up.  There are also a few other frames that are frequently passed up that weren't on that list.

 

Face it, she's a frame from the old days that desperately needs a rework, more than others.  There's no shame in that, Warframe has gone a different direction from what DE probably intended at first, so Banshee's kit just kind of became something that..isn't that great.  All of her abilities desperately need a rework(Or a fixing), because a frame's one call to fame shouldn't be "You can get a 1000% damage multiplier that sometimes doesn't work.

 

Finally, I want you to realize why people look at Nova as the "Enemy debuffing/aggression" frame more than Banshee.  It's because she's not just that.  Yes, her debuff is only 2x damage, but that's enough.  It also slows/speeds the enemy as required, she has one of the best mobility skills in the game, and her Antimatter drop can not only draw aggro from enemies with an augment but also does amazing AOE damage.  By and large, she is better than Banshee in every way.  Now, just tell me, why should I use my Banshee over Nova Prime?

Just because you think she is not good doesn't mean this is the FACT.

 

You speak like you determine what is fact or not, it is quite an arrogant and self-centered attitude.

 

"Now, just tell me, why should I use my Banshee over Nova Prime?"

 

it could be changed to "Now, just tell me, why should I use my _____________ over Nova Prime?"  

 

Submit any frames in that blank.

 

She may have some tiny things to be tweaked, but she is not bad at all. Maybe just not your style.

 

---

 

To op, with the reaction of the devs, I think they don't have a huge intention on looking at her recently. On contrast, Limbo and Zephyr might be the ones up next.

Edited December 14, 2015 by climatiseur

[MumblesMcphatty]

We're comparing Banshee and Nova now? Puh-leez!

Anyone can copy a build off of YouTube and go spam M-Prime - you can copy Banshee builds all day and still suck with her.

Those stating that her difficulty of use is a bad thing are out to lunch - we have enough frames designed around the lowest common denominator - it's fine that some of us who prefer a little thinking in our gameplay get one or two frames that fit that niche.

[Buzkyl]

Those stating that her difficulty of use is a bad thing are out to lunch - we have enough frames designed around the lowest common denominator

 

 

Arrogance, at it's finest.

 

 

The logic here is the same Logic with those defending Limbo in limbo threads "People say he's bad  because they're not good with him, unlike me". While i do think Limbo  is in certainly of a worse state than banshee but the reasoning that because the frame is difficult to use means it more skillful is woefully flawed.

 

The numbers outright tell you that Banshee is among the least used frame in the game, logically speaking DE should go an investigate why this frame is so unused compare to other frames.

 

Attempting to fight change will get you know where

 

"Don't rework banshee, she's perfect"

 

If she was this thread wouldn't exist and if she was she wouldn't be the least used frame. If anythign a frost level rework/revision should be done to her kit.

[(XBOX)Wolumo DK]

The only thing Banshee needs is a 4-rework - as another user suggested make it, so that enemies in a x-diameter outside the stun-circle drops their weapon, dependant on range mods.

 

Other than that she needs a clever passive, my suggestion is making her a "backstapper", make use of daggers and thus making them viable Again... using dagger/dual daggers and Banshee will grant a xxx% dmg backstap bonus...

 

Banshee is awesome, great mods, great to play and nice to be able to "master", feels like you are the reason for failure/success and not just "chose right frame to win"...

[Shin]

Wall of text, you have been warned.

 

please DE, do not rework banshee just because she was simply the least used warframe of 2015

 

the reason she is the least used is not because there is anything wrong with her current state but because players are not good enough to use her effectively 

Thats like your opinion. Sure there isnt anything wrong with her but the reason why she's the least used is not because she's hard. There doesnt exist a thing thats hard to do in Warframe. Everything is easy. Even if you dont use cheap tactics.

 

 

its not banshees fault people dont know how to play her correctly, its just a reflection she is not for everybody 

and even if she is the least popular so what ? its ok to have a higher skill ceiling warframe for more advanced players to utilize 

Its not about not knowing how to play with. Also how do you play with Banshee? How hard can it be to play with the most boring but useful abilities in the game? 

 

Thats right. Its your assumption that Banshee requires a high skill gameplay. Let me repeat myself. No frame is hard nor complicated to play with. Stop deluding yourself into thinking that Banshee or any frame requires skill to play with.

 

Also about the part where you say "she is not for everybody". All frames should be for everyone. DE's not designing frames like " Ok lets try making a frame for this player group". This isnt even a topic to be honest.

 

 

in fact quite the opposite, she is one of the best balanced warframes in the game at the moment and her skill set is almost perfect except for a couple of specific things

dont fix something that aint broke 

 

she actually plays best aggressively, high risk & reward, punishing mistakes which makes you careful and calculating - this makes her more engaging than other warframes 

 

Only ability i can think of bad is her Sound quake which was a beast when she first came out. She could wipe out the enemies before they leave their spawn rooms in Pluto Defense(if the pod was in the middle of the spawn points).

 

About her High risk & reward and punishing mistakes. Banshee doesnt really let you make mistakes. Her silence walks with her, stunning everything. Infact, Banshee is one of those easier frames if you have access to bullet jump buttons at all. She's not any different from the rest of the frames really. She's not the goddess you are making her into.

 

 

excalibur - easy mode ult spam frame

loki - invisible easy mode cheese frame

rhino - easy mode easy to play swiss army knife frame

Thats like your opinion. You cant judge people for wanting to play with any of the frames no matter how they are played.

 

Excalibur can be used in Raids etc for stun, or use the augment to stun and kill the enemies while having an good set.

 

Loki's Disarm and Irradiated disarm saves you from a lot of headache. He's not all about going invisible.

 

Rhino can be used as a buffing frame and has good potential with his rework. He doesnt even have to use Iron skin to be relatively useful.

 

Overall those are just your sad assumptions about the frames that you dont like to point the direction into other frames in fear of getting your favorite toy getting changed. This is just sad.

 

 

they are the top 3 because of 1 reason - people will always choose the path of least resistance to grind thru content in the game and those 3 appeal to the average player for that person

Again with the assumptions. Rhino has never been on the top nor Excalibur. After reworks they are in a good place with the exception of Rhino getting some tweaks. Loki is not even a damage dealing frame and i might add that Stealth damage multiplier goes down if you touch the enemies and with our terrible Melee 2.0, we keep hugging the enemies so without Primed Reach you cant even utilize a part of his abilities. 

 

You need to study the frames before framing them of being something they are not. This just makes you look bad and makes your point irrelevant.

 

 

i main banshee so am fully qualified to assess her in the current environment - she performs very well, overall balanced and enjoyable to play, please dont ruin her just because of player usage stats 

 

may reason prevail 

If you want to show people that she's not bad or broken or anything, provide proper feedback. The info you provided is either false or just a pure assumption and while trying to prove your point, you are attacking other frames without any proper feedback or purely out of your dislike towards them. This is now how you provide feedback. 

 

For the record, i do not care what happens to Banshee. I find her abilities and aesthetics boring and ugly. If anything, i hope they change her Sound quake for good and maybe make her first ability castable on the move with one hand and  prime her so that i may play with her again. 

 

Does she need a change? No i dont think so, her abilities helps everyone one way or another but im also not against a complate rework if its going to make her more fun to play with. Im fine either way.

 

[BritishBob]

So let me chip in on this. Banshee is fiine. She is fine in the sense that what whe has currently makes her a resonably balanced support caster. I think the issue is that you can do 90%-95% off all the content in warframe solo with alternative frames. That means her support is not really usefull. Trinty is the main support but there are two primary builds. Tank and energy. Energy means you spam abilities more tank is just tank. What banshee does is support guns. People don't need support for guns. For example the only time my Opticore needs any help is when you get to the 5% and you're running into level 80+ enimies. That's where banshee shines, but it's also the place that no one really goes. It's more effcient to run two T4Ds to wave 20 than one to wave 40, for example, or to run loki in a sortie then something that shoots.

 

I love playing her to carry newer players as she helps those with lower ranked players without the mods, but again the 5% of content where if I took a different frame then I'd stomp the content rarther than supportthe team. One and the same to people...

 

I could just be the minority, I like limbo, but banshee doesn't need a rework but the QoL change to make her more accessable to more poeple.

 

She currrently just doesn't fit the Meta.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited December 14, 2015 by BritishBob

[YasaiTsume]

Sound Quake is so underwhelming.

Please change it to something like a small AoE Sonic Blast that causes a Bleed Proc because it ruptures the ear drums, and can actually shred enemies 

 

^ she can also scream if she wants. Why is Valkyr the only one reserved for screaming. Banshee should scream too.

Edited December 14, 2015 by YasaiTsume

[(XBOX)Wolumo DK]

The Scream idea is awesome, Thats what a "Banshee" does !!! plz DE do work with that :-)

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

A few ideas for Banshee:

 

Silence - separate silence and stun auras. Silence aura need to be larger (30 meters default, affected by range), while stun aura might be a little bit smaller (like 15 meters). Also stun aura might actually benefit from LoS, since you won't stun enemies through the wall, before they actually come around the corner to shoot/hit you.

 Some synergy with Sonic Boom would be nice, like casting Sonic Boom on Silenced enemies stuns them for longer time.

 

Sonic Boom itself need to be more than just a knockdown tool, or at least become a one-handed cast.

 

Sound Quake - needs some active actions implemented. So you stunlock all the enemies around you, but also can shoot sound waves to damage and knockdown enemies, kinda like a Sonic Boom meets Exalted Blade waves. Also Banshee needs some increased damage reduction while she's doing Sound Quake, so enemies couldn't kill her that easily from a far since she's stationary.

[Shin]

She currrently just doesn't fit the Meta.

She doesnt really have to fit into any kind of meta. Her abilities are nice with the exception of Sound quake. With the addition of those bubbles the only use for that ability went up in smokes. 

 

Im not against any changes. If its going to make her fun. Im fine either way.

 

 

Sound Quake is so underwhelming.

Please change it to something like a small AoE Sonic Blast that causes a Bleed Proc because it ruptures the ear drums, and can actually shred enemies 

 

^ she can also scream if she wants. Why is Valkyr the only one reserved for screaming. Banshee should scream too.

Oh god yes. Just remembering ME3 Banshee's, if she could scream like that to stun or deal damage, im sold.

[YasaiTsume]

 

Sound Quake - needs some active actions implemented. So you stunlock all the enemies around you, but also can shoot sound waves to damage and knockdown enemies, kinda like a Sonic Boom meets Exalted Blade waves. Also Banshee needs some increased damage reduction while she's doing Sound Quake, so enemies couldn't kill her that easily from a far since she's stationary.

We do not need anymore stances, nor anymore Exalted Blade clones.

Banshee's Silence already gives her the survivability she needs to get her job done as well as protect her from incoming aggression.

All Sound Quake needs is either :

 

1. Make her able to move around while Sound Quake is active

2. Change it.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

We do not need anymore stances, nor anymore Exalted Blade clones.

It's not going to be anything like Exalted Blade in behaviour, you won't be able to move or have any weapons etc. Basically it's the same as now, but while you're in locked position, you also able to shoot sound waves, kinda like Sonic Boom but with increased range and damage. Something to make Sound Quake more active, and not be sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for your teammates to finish the job. Maybe some different effects would be nice, but that's just the first thing that came to my mind, since it would be similar to her other power.

[YasaiTsume]

It's not going to be anything like Exalted Blade in behaviour, you won't be able to move or have any weapons etc. Basically it's the same as now, but while you're in locked position, you also able to shoot sound waves, kinda like Sonic Boom but with increased range and damage. Something to make Sound Quake more active, and not be sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for your teammates to finish the job. Maybe some different effects would be nice, but that's just the first thing that came to my mind, since it would be similar to her other power.

Mesa clone.

[7Lions]

To think that all frames are created the same and have the same skill cap is a false notion, that clearly some of the players don't understand in this thread. In late game content Banshee needs to be the aggressor due to her survivability or lack thereof, she needs to dispose of enemies quickly within the stun duration of silence with the aid of sonar before enemies regain consciousness and proceeds to one shot her. So yes Banshee is a high risk, high rewards, high skill cap warframe that is lethal in the hands of the right player and boring in the hands of others. She's not your typical support/castor that needs to stay in the back line behind the comfort of your tank, no, no, Banshee was meant for so much more than that. In fact she needs to be in the thick of the battle fighting along side the likes of your tanks and front liners so that her skill sets can benefit and aid the team. Her skill sets synergize perfectly with each other to keep a squishy support frame like her alive in the midst of battle. The majority of the problem stems from the player base wanting to min/max their builds which works against her, when in reality her base stats are already very powerful. So yes I don't think Banshee needs a major rework and yes I think she can benefit from a few QoL changes

 

Like many others have stated

 

Sonic Boom: Make this a one handed action, just like Volts chain lightning where players can reload and shoot while casting, this will further improve her survivability

 

Sonar: Works as its intended and is an amazing amp damage and mandated for any late game content, would be nice if I could cast this skill on the move

 

Silence: Works as intended, would be nice if it was re-castable and able to be cast while on the move

 

Sound quake: This skill could use some tweaking to make it more viable and useful, it renders a mobile frame highly immobile which leads to death in certain situations.  

 

Banshee is a rewarding frame to play, I'm a vet and I constantly feel challenged playing her because of how engaging her skill set is and how rewarding it is to pull it off. But that doesn't mean I succeed every time, last nights sortie with high lvl grineer exterminates and survivals saw me getting my ! handed to me multiple time. Thats what I get for thinking I had mastered the ever elusive Banshee  <3333333333

Edited December 14, 2015 by 7Lions

[BritishBob]

To think that all frames are created the same and have the same skill cap is a false notion, that clearly some of the players don't understand in this thread. In late game content Banshee needs to be the aggressor due to her survivability or lack thereof, she needs to dispose of enemies quickly within the stun duration of silence with the aid of sonar before enemies regain consciousness and proceeds to one shot her. So yes Banshee is a high risk, high rewards, high skill cap warframe that is lethal in the hands of the right player and boring in the hands of others. She's not your typical support/castor that needs to stay in the back line behind the comfort of your tank, no, no, Banshee was meant for so much more than that. In fact she needs to be in the thick of the battle fighting along side the likes of your tanks and front liners so that her skill sets can benefit and aid the team. Her skill sets synergize perfectly with each other to keep a squishy support frame like her alive in the midst of battle. The majority of the problem stems from the player base wanting to min/max their builds which works against her, when in reality her base stats are already very powerful. So yes I don't think Banshee needs a major rework and yes I think she can benefit from a few QoL changes

 

Like many others have stated

 

Sonic Boom: Make this a one handed action, just like Volts chain lightning where players can reload and shoot while casting, this will further improve her survivability

 

Sonar: Works as its intended and is an amazing amp damage and mandated for any late game content, would be nice if I could cast this skill on the move

 

Silence: Works as intended, would be nice if it was re-castable and able to be cast while on the move

 

Sound quake: This skill could use some tweaking to make it more viable and useful, it renders a mobile frame highly immobile which leads to death in certain situations.  

 

Banshee is a rewarding frame to play, I'm a vet and I constantly feel challenged playing her because of how engaging her skill set is and how rewarding it is to pull it off. But that doesn't mean I succeed every time, last nights sortie with high lvl grineer exterminates and survivals saw me getting my ! handed to me multiple time. Thats what I get for thinking I had mastered the ever elusive Banshee  <3333333333

 

 

\I think this is about the best summary I have seen of what needs/could be changed.

[Boodendorf]

I use Banshee,but she NEEDS QOL changes at least.

Like being able to use spells while still moving.

She's damn squischy and i don't mind that ,but being immobile when using ANY spells is frankly not for this type of frame.She has to move,A LOT.

Uh, she can use her powers (except 4, I wish this was possible to use in the air lol) during any parkour movements, I usually cast sonar/silence during flights and sonic boom durings slides.

 

Two things I'd like would be recastable silence for more panic button goodness and let us use sound quake during slides at least, if they really don't want us to be able to use it during air movements for logical reasons.

 

edit: conclave wise though she's pretty fine right now, pretty good, but experimenting with the changes could make her even more fun, who knows.

(pvp wise) Really her Sonic boom is an all around great tool to start, catch or finish off someone, sonar can be used situationally on groups of enemies in team game modes and sound quake is an amazing finisher and can combo off a sonic boom.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Boodendorf

[DSMatticus]

Banshee has two problems. The first problem is that her powers are awkward to use - sonic boom has a noticeably long cast time and soundquake roots you in place (and when you end it, enemies recover before you do! RIP Banshee). Simply trying to use those abilities can put you in a ton of danger. The second problem is that her powers don't really fit into anything players are doing.

 

You're playing exterminate, capture, sabotage, deception, rescue, whatever, even as a sortie? Banshee has nothing to offer. Enemies die too quickly to need sonar and her CC doesn't fit.

 

You're playing mobile defense? Banshee's soundquake can CC things, but 99% of the time it won't reach far enough to actually protect the objective on its own.

 

You're playing interception? You're probably farming affinity. Banshee freezes enemies out of sight and you won't kill them as quickly. Get lost, Banshee.

 

You're playing defense? The faster you kill things, the faster the mission goes. Banshee freezes enemies out of sight and you won't kill them as quickly. Get lost, Banshee.

 

You're playing survival? You need to kill things to get life support. Banshee freezes enemies out of sight and you won't kill them as quickly. Get lost, Banshee.

 

You're doing raid? You need to CC things, but you also need to stay on the move. Banshee cannot CC things very well on the move.

 

So... what should I bring my Banshee to, exactly?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

It seems to me that there's not really much actual disagreement here: Banshee needs a ton of work/rework on 4, work on 3, and QoL on the rest of her kit. All the argument comes from the OP's phrasing and not really the suggestions.

[(XBOX)Skode]

She NEEDS a look... too squishy without the click a button outs the other squishies have to hide from or heal damage so its more a case of buff > rework. Still her ult is DREADFUL. that energy drain paired with getting bombarded during it = why bother? Use her 1 for cheaper CC instead.

[i_Lex]

CHANCE HER!!!! LET THERE BE DREAD AND DESPAIR UPON RESONANCE BANSHEES

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Buff Sonic Boom, improve hitbox detection and location of sonar, make Silence recast-able, have sound-quake able to be mobile (Lower Banshee's speed while active as a trade-off). Make all skills able to be cast while move. Boom, Banshee QoL rework done.

 

Edit: She definitely will be looked at a little bit before they release her premium skin. Best we suggest what should be done instead of her turning out badly because we offered no suggestions.

 

I'll say this, If Sonar is changed, it WILL kill the frame, Banshee is one of the most Balanced frames out there with a very high skill ceiling, but is very rewarding when mastered. The only changes I would make would be to Sonic boom. leave everything else.

Sonar could use some better hitbox detection&location. She will be one of the hardest to give QoL to because of how balanced she can be.

 

I remember the days when Sound Quake had damage. It's gone for a good reason, m8.

 

Other than that, Banshee is a tough cookie to remake - she is amazing with teams (sonar + quake can be invaluable against high-level enemies), but painful to use in solo without a dedicated silence build, as she dies in one hit pretty much. 

^ This. She's a team frame, over a solo frame like a lot of them.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Viedra_Lavinova

[BritishBob]

 

You're playing mobile defense? Banshee's soundquake can CC things, but 99% of the time it won't reach far enough to actually protect the objective on its own.

 

 

 

I'm sorry I just have to correct this...

http://i.imgur.com/8Q1YZZf.png

 

That's 47m.... THe size of most tiles. Most MD tiles are smaller unless you're on the ones outs 47m is plenty fine unless you are positioned badly.

Edited December 14, 2015 by BritishBob