Do Not Rework Banshee

[Sorise]

Ember - after replacing her 2-nd ability with what we have now she became a useless for many people who loved her. Her ult was also changed.

How has the Ult changed?

 

Was it for the better or worse?

[AstroLord]

Limbo is unpopular too. Not because he is broken. He is not for everyone. In my hand he can do 4 draco ceres rounds solo. X) Trust me Limbo and Banshee are alright.

[Kai_Shiba]

Limbo is unpopular too. Not because he is broken. He is not for everyone. In my hand he can do 4 draco ceres rounds solo. X) Trust me Limbo and Banshee are alright.

 

He is broken and needs to be looked at. He can make any Warframe who has a damaging ability be unkillable. That just ruins the game.

 

He has nothing going for him at all either.

Изменено 27 декабря, 2015 пользователем KJRenz

[Buzkyl]

Limbo is unpopular too. Not because he is broken. He is not for everyone. In my hand he can do 4 draco ceres rounds solo. X) Trust me Limbo and Banshee are alright.

 

Soloing draco is hardly a test of a frame's viability.

[AstroLord]

He is broken and needs to be looked at. He can make any Warframe who has a damaging ability be unkillable. That just ruins the game.

He has nothing going for him at all either.

Hehhhahahahaahhhaah...hahahahahaahahahahahhaaha. Thats cute that you trying to tell me it. Do you ever play Limbo properply? No? Because you re Noob player if you cant see potential and name that he is broken. But if you ever meet Limbo-noob in your teamnates im very sorry for your rage. Thus is not my fault that everyone need to see everyone dealing damage everywhere. Only Non brainers says that Loki is the best frame in game... He is not the best, he is the easiest.

-"Is the dark side stronger?"

-"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Yoda. XD

[Svygor]

How has the Ult changed?

 

Was it for the better or worse?

Ult affected all enemies in the radius simultaneously. And it had time of duration. Now she hits only a few enemies at one time and toogle ult on or off.

But I don't remember if it was worse or better - I almost didn't play her before this changes.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

We love Bunshee

 

Yes, we do. SCNR

[Kai_Shiba]

Hehhhahahahaahhhaah...hahahahahaahahahahahhaaha. Thats cute that you trying to tell me it. Do you ever play Limbo properply? No? Because you re Noob player if you cant see potential and name that he is broken. But if you ever meet Limbo-noob in your teamnates im very sorry for your rage. Thus is not my fault that everyone need to see everyone dealing damage everywhere. Only Non brainers says that Loki is the best frame in game... He is not the best, he is the easiest.

-"Is the dark side stronger?"

-"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Yoda. XD

 

Wow... That response... just wow. Thought you were going to prove me wrong, listing actual uses of Limbo and be mature about it but instead you call me a "Noob" 

 

Now that's cute

Изменено 28 декабря, 2015 пользователем KJRenz

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

SOUND QUAKE IS BEST UTILITY

All this Sound Quake arguments, yet folks forget Sound Quake has the best utility in the game that shuts down enemies making you win all but one type of endless mission.

You can go pretty VEEEERY far in any endless mode such as defense/interception w/o having enemies touch the pod or capturing points. Hell, you can even protect the core easily while others guide it with 0 issues especially with it's MASSIVE range. It can also make excavation a breeze with protecting 3+ excavators.

Sound Quake is basically a cheat with two major drawback, immobility and the need to stop to restore energy.

So the only issue with Quake is it's immobility which can be solves by making Sound Quake attack available by holding 4 much like shooting arrows with Ivara's 1st ability and giving tap 4 another effect.

BOOM! Issue solved. Everyone is grateful. Banshee gets a new Ultimate effect and keeps Sound Quake.

Does viable mean worth the energy and restrictions? Or worth picking her over other frames? Pick vauban or frost, do the same thing while shooting and for a FRAGMENT of the energy. Boom, more efficient gameplay. She wouldn't be played AT ALL if it wasn't for sonar.

[Sorise]

Sound Quake was the reason Banshee was often chosen back in the closed beta days. Very little frames then. Quake has massive range and killing power and Banshee was often seen in Mobile Defense on Sedna.

 

Now there are far more more updated choices then some ancient frame from the yesteryear's.

[Peacemuser]

I’m a very avid banshee user. I use her to rank up low-level gear and support lower-ranking team-members also. However, this is mainly due to sonar. My biggest problem with banshee is that you end up spamming the second ability only and nothing else. Sonic Boom and Silence is short-lived due to the very minute amount of crowd control. Here, I set up some suggested changes towards each ability.

 

Sonic Boom

■       Enemies knocked-down will have a 20%/30%/45%/65% accuracy reduction (if applicable) for 10/12/15/20 seconds. The accuracy reduction is affected by Power Strength and the duration is affected by Power Duration.

■       If desired, increase the range to 12/14/17/20 m

Sonar

■       If desired, increase the damage multiplier by 3x/4x/6x/8x or 3x/4x/5x/6x. The justification behind it behind the first alternative is to compete with the strategy of Nova’s antimatter drop and molecular prime which gives an 8x multiplier with consistent results (it’s easier to hit the sphere than a sonar spot). The second alternative is competing against critical based weapons, which gives a 4x multiplier to headshots. The sonar spots gives at least a 50% increase in damage when hitting it on other parts of the body.

■       Make the Resonance Augment innate, and replace it with a new augment:

●      Acoustic Hailing: Enemies has a 25%/50%/75%/100% chance of landing a sonar spot on the part aimed at when cast. If any of the enemies in range does not have the same hit-box layout, then the sonar spot will land towards the closest thing to that body part, or based on a hierarchy of the body-part multiplier of the unit. If it’s too much coding, make it land in a random body part instead. This gives players a chance for stacked damage at the cost of energy consumption and exposure to gunfire. EDIT: It also gives better synergy with many other weapons and abilities that aims at specific hit-boxes such as the torso (Mesa's Peacekeeper) or the head (Tonkor Blasts). This does not apply towards resonance; only when sonar is cast.

○      For example: If sonar is casted when aiming at a MOA in the fanny pack, every other individual enemy units in range will have a specified chance to have a spot land on their fanny pack. If there is a crewman in range, then the sonar spot will land on their head, or in another random spot if it takes too much coding.

●      If balancing is needed, give it a Multiplier reduction for example by 12.5%/25%/37.5%/50%.

■       Increase the range to 25/35/50/65 m, but is NOT affected by Power Range.

■       Power range affects the size of the sonar spots. If desired, make the sonar spots increase by rank. This might be hard to implement due to spots potentially overlapping between two different body parts and can add complexity.

■       Increase the energy consumption to 75. This encourages players to prevent spamming, and use the innate Resonance to encourage accurate shooting to make more sonar spots.

■       Weak-spots might need some more polish in spot placement and hit-confirmation. There are body parts such as the upper left leg of the infested charger that isn’t part of the hit-box and is being highlighted. Other cases are when a crewman is covered in weak-spots and certain shots weren’t registered for the damage multiplier.

■       Make it as a third ability.

Silence

■       Increase the range to 15/18/23/30 m. EDIT: This makes modding for stealth easier since loud weapons alert enemies within around 45 meters.

■       Reduce the energy consumption to 50.

■       Enemies affected by Sonic Boom’s accuracy de-buff and Silence together will have the melee stealth damage multiplier applied to those enemies.

●      EDIT: If the melee stealth multiplier is too much or too little of a buff, apply a melee damage multiplier for example of 1.5x/2.0x/2.5x/3.0x, and is affected by Power Strength. Again, this might be hard to implement. This motivates the use of melee for a high-risk, high-reward gameplay, and can support other players with lower-ranking weapons and frames to deal more damage.

■       Make it as a second ability.

Sound Quake

■       Double the amount of damage to 250/300/350/400

■       Increase range to 13/16/20/25 m. EDIT: A lot of people mentioned that Banshee becomes very vulnerable for an ability that has mediocre range and little damage. The range buff could steer it more as a team support ability, and the damage buff along side with the synergy for sonar can help for solo play.

■       Reduce the casting animation to about 0.25 Seconds.

■       EDIT: If balancing is needed, increase the energy consumption by 25%

■       If desired, give a new augment:

●      Vestibular Distortion: After 7 tics of damage, enemies will ragdoll and become immobile for 1/2/3/4 seconds, affected by power duration.

 

If the abilities seem too powerful, you can try to balance it out further by reducing her health and shields to 75.

 

Thanks for reading my suggestions and getting this far. Please tell me what you like and don’t like, and give some suggestions as to what should be implemented based on these suggestions.

 

Also, can someone help me format? I tried using Microsoft Word and it doesn’t seem to look as good as DE’s Patch Notes.

Изменено 31 декабря, 2015 пользователем Peacemuser

[Gurpgork]

-

I really love these ideas, and I do agree with most of them. Although I do have a couple nitpicks.

 

Sonic Boom: The accuracy debuff is very interesting. Something I've thought of is giving the ability an additional debuff if enemies hit walls or other obstructions. The idea I had was a duration based disarm. An accuracy debuff would be fantastic, though, and I'd be very open to that. 

 

Sonar: Increasing the multiplier on Sonar is just overkill. It's already the highest damage multiplier in the game, and it's already way more than you need in 90% of the situations you encounter in normal gameplay. Increasing it further doesn't really do much to help Banshee out. I do like the idea of rolling in the augment to the base ability, though. Increasing the damage on the rest of the body is a nice change, too, but I'd rather have Sonar spots not spawning on limbs instead, personally. The augment idea is also very interesting. It gives it some semblance of uniformity, although I wouldn't necessarily give up a mod slot for it (even though Banshee has more than enough mod slots, but that's a different story).

 

Silence: I can't agree with the range increase. It would make it really difficult to reapply the stun. It's already best at 100% or lower range as it is, increasing the range isn't going to do Banshee any favors. The accuracy debuff is a little redundant with Sonic Boom's. I think that one of these should have the accuracy debuff, and the other should have something different. 

 

Soundquake: Doubling the damage isn't terribly helpful, but that range increase would make this ability ludicrous. Talk about total map lockdown.

 

Overall, you definitely have some great ideas. Personally, I'd like to see some synergies between abilities or something, because Banshee's slate is clean as far as synergy goes.

[7Lions]

I’m a very avid banshee user. I use her to rank up low-level gear and support lower-ranking team-members also. However, this is mainly due to sonar. My biggest problem with banshee is that you end up spamming the second ability only and nothing else. Sonic Boom and Silence is short-lived due to the very minute amount of crowd control. Here, I set up some suggested changes towards each ability.

 

Sonic Boom

·         Enemies knocked-down will have a 20%/30%/45%/65% accuracy reduction (if applicable) for 10/12/15/20 seconds. The accuracy reduction is affected by Power Strength and the duration is affected by Power Duration.

·         If desired, increase the range to 12/14/17/20 m

Sonar

·         If desired, increase the damage multiplier by 3x/4x/6x/8x or 3x/4x/5x/6x. The justification behind it behind the first alternative is to compete with the strategy of Nova’s antimatter drop and molecular prime which gives an 8x multiplier with consistent results (it’s easier to hit the sphere than a sonar spot). The second alternative is competing against critical based weapons, which gives a 4x multiplier to headshots. The sonar spots gives at least a 50% increase in damage when hitting it on other parts of the body.

·         Make the Resonance Augment innate, and replace it with a new augment:

o    Acoustic Hailing: Enemies has a 25%/50%/75%/100% chance of landing a sonar spot on the part aimed at when cast. If any of the enemies in range does not have the same hit-box layout, then the sonar spot will land towards the closest thing to that body part, or based on a hierarchy of the body-part multiplier of the unit. If it’s too much coding, make it land in a random body part instead. This gives players a chance for stacked damage at the cost of energy consumption and exposure to gunfire. This does not apply towards resonance; only when sonar is cast.

§  For example: If sonar is casted when aiming at a MOA in the fanny pack, every other individual enemy units in range will have a specified chance to have a spot land on their fanny pack. If there is a crewman in range, then the sonar spot will land on their head, or in another random spot if it takes too much coding.

o    If balancing is needed, give it a Multiplier reduction for example by 12.5%/25%/37.5%/50%.

·         Increase the range to 25/35/50/65 m, but is NOT affected by Power Range.

·         Power range affects the size of the sonar spots. If desired, make the sonar spots increase by rank. This might be hard to implement due to spots potentially overlapping between two different body parts and can add complexity.

·         Increase the energy consumption to 75. This encourages players to prevent spamming, and use the innate Resonance to encourage accurate shooting to make more sonar spots.

·         Weak-spots might need some more polish in spot placement and hit-confirmation. There are body parts such as the upper left leg of the infested charger that isn’t part of the hit-box and is being highlighted. Other cases are when a crewman is covered in weak-spots and certain shots weren’t registered for the damage multiplier.

·         Make it as a third ability.

Silence

·         Increase the range to 15/18/23/30 m.

·         Reduce the energy consumption to 50.

·         Enemies affected by Sonic Boom’s accuracy de-buff and Silence will have the melee stealth damage multiplier applied to those enemies.

o    If desired, apply a melee damage multiplier for example of 1.5x/2.0x/2.5x/3.0x, and is affected by Power Strength. Again, this might be hard to implement. This motivates the use of melee for a high-risk, high-reward gameplay, and can support other players with lower-ranking weapons and frames to deal more damage.

·         Make it as a second ability.

Sound Quake

·         Double the amount of damage to 250/300/350/400

·         Increase range to 13/16/20/25 m.

·         Reduce the casting animation to about 0.25 Seconds.

·         If desired, give a new augment:

o    Vestibular Distortion: After 7 tics of damage, enemies will ragdoll and become immobile for 1/2/3/4 seconds, affected by power duration.

 

If the abilities seem too powerful, you can try to balance it out further by reducing her health and shields to 75.

 

Thanks for reading my suggestions and getting this far. Please tell me what you like and don’t like, and give some suggestions as to what should be implemented based on these suggestions.

 

thing is I don't want a range increase on silence cause that would render the CC useless, I run it at base range or even negative range to compensate for that, only time I ever run more range is if I'm doing a specialized min/max build for specific mission types and mainly for Sonar, but other then that I can agree with some of the other improvements

[Noble_Cactus]

If Sound Quake were changed to be anything but a press-4-and-netflix snoozefest, I would be happy.

[Eminem2420]

Change is not always a bad thing. Banshee could use some buffs, nothing major, but she does need some imo. Her survivability needs improved. She is very squishy. Her ultimate is very lackluster imo. 

[Eminem2420]

Hehhhahahahaahhhaah...hahahahahaahahahahahhaaha. Thats cute that you trying to tell me it. Do you ever play Limbo properply? No? Because you re Noob player if you cant see potential and name that he is broken. But if you ever meet Limbo-noob in your teamnates im very sorry for your rage. Thus is not my fault that everyone need to see everyone dealing damage everywhere. Only Non brainers says that Loki is the best frame in game... He is not the best, he is the easiest.

-"Is the dark side stronger?"

-"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Yoda. XD

Your response is very humorous. List actual reasons to back up your opinion instead of spewing mindless nonsense. Insulting someone doesn't do anything for you, and certainly doesn't back up your argument. It just makes it clear you don't know how to make a logical argument. 

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

thing is I don't want a range increase on silence cause that would render the CC useless, I run it at base range or even negative range to compensate for that, only time I ever run more range is if I'm doing a specialized min/max build for specific mission types and mainly for Sonar, but other then that I can agree with some of the other improvements

I always thought that Silence is the one ability that would actually benefit from the Line of Sight mechanic. Its effect should be split into two separate auras with separate range. One is like 30 meter silence effect, which doesn't have LoS. And the other one is 15 meter stun effect with LoS. This way there would be no longer downside in range builds, because you will no longer stun all the enemies before they actually see you, while still muting all the sounds around for everyone.

[hukurokuju5]

thing is I don't want a range increase on silence cause that would render the CC useless, I run it at base range or even negative range to compensate for that, only time I ever run more range is if I'm doing a specialized min/max build for specific mission types and mainly for Sonar, but other then that I can agree with some of the other improvements

yaaaaassssss

[7Lions]

I always thought that Silence is the one ability that would actually benefit from the Line of Sight mechanic. Its effect should be split into two separate auras with separate range. One is like 30 meter silence effect, which doesn't have LoS. And the other one is 15 meter stun effect with LoS. This way there would be no longer downside in range builds, because you will no longer stun all the enemies before they actually see you, while still muting all the sounds around for everyone.

 

Thing is the WF community is so used to min/max builds that they no longer appreciate the base stats of WF any more and anything that isn't min/max build to them is useless. Well I beg to differ cause Banshee is the perfect example of a frame that has balanced base stats, and that any other mod added to her should improve her survivabiliy. Min/maxing her build would only serve to reduce the effectiveness of Banshee hence why so many non Bansh players think shes useless cause their modding like how they would for other press *insert button* to win frames. If they deduce her down to a easy spam to win frame, I'd be sad but have no choice but to shelf her and move on to the next challenging frame to play, one that doesn't exist just yet

[hukurokuju5]

yeah she is a rare frame that has multiple abilities that work well at the same time with base values (minus efficiency/powerstr, but that's obvious...)

Изменено 30 декабря, 2015 пользователем hukurokuju5

[alergiclaprosti]

the reason she is the least used is not because there is anything wrong with her current state but because players are not good enough to use her effectively 

 

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha 

 

What do you call using her effectively?! Staying in a corner and waiting for others to do the work!? Becuase that's what Banshee can do at the moment!

 

It would be nice if Banshee players do that ....I don't know ......... WHILE NOT DIEING!

Изменено 30 декабря, 2015 пользователем alergiclaprosti

[ShortCat]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha 

 

What do you call using her effectively?! Staying in a corner and waiting for others to do the work!? Becuase that's what Banshee can do at the moment!

 

It would be nice if Banshee players do that ....I don't know ......... WHILE NOT DIEING!

If somebody dies with her it is the players fault, not the frames. People play too much with Rhino or healing Trin so they forgett how to stay alive. And Banshee has enough tools to keep her safe.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Thing is the WF community is so used to min/max builds that they no longer appreciate the base stats of WF any more and anything that isn't min/max build to them is useless. Well I beg to differ cause Banshee is the perfect example of a frame that has balanced base stats, and that any other mod added to her should improve her survivabiliy. Min/maxing her build would only serve to reduce the effectiveness of Banshee hence why so many non Bansh players think shes useless cause their modding like how they would for other press *insert button* to win frames. If they deduce her down to a easy spam to win frame, I'd be sad but have no choice but to shelf her and move on to the next challenging frame to play, one that doesn't exist just yet

 

Well, I agree to some degree. But personally I feel like Silence is in a very weird place. You can't really use it for actual silencing, because the range is just too small by default to silence your guns which have like twice the noise range. However stun aura is already a little bit too big by default, so you can't even insert regular Stretch, without hurting it. I don't think it's the way how the power should work. And maxing range for Banshee wouldn't work that well anyways, because she would lose Strength, which would make Sonar (also both Sonic Fracture and Savage Silence) much less effective. So I don't see the problem with tweaking Silence so it actually wouldn't be hurt by range mods.

[alergiclaprosti]

If somebody dies with her it is the players fault, not the frames. People play too much with Rhino or healing Trin so they forgett how to stay alive. And Banshee has enough tools to keep her safe.

 

If I play with other people .... I want them to actualy help me ..... Providing me a place where I can shoot and deal more damage ... is not helping me .... If you want to help me ....you do the work and help me.

[rockscl]

wait till everyone discovers that you dont need to kill anything in interception and it will become the most popular thing in the game, when that moment comes and everyone has their banshees with 4 formas DE will spawn nullifier drones in draco and everyone will rant heheh that day will be sweet

Изменено 30 декабря, 2015 пользователем rockscl