Focus System Is A Bad Job.

[FelisImpurrator]

I'm not saying give us maxed focus trees so we can test them now!!1 and I don't think a double xp weekend as they've started gathering feedback on Focus is a coincidence either. But their progress block has led to more cheese and more knee-jerk reactions than any actual fix for either Focus or pre-existing system (Spy 2.0 spawn mechanic feedback? Never heard of it. Stealth kill chain xp to unlock Focus? Now that's a nerfin'.) 

Riddle me this, then - what were they supposed to do, precisely? Rush this unspecified "actual fix" out the door in the day immediately following the release of a major update - from coming up with the idea, no time even to read or incorporate player feedback, to coding and implementing said fix?

 What would this "actual fix" have been, precisely? I don't suppose anyone would like it if they simply removed stealth affinity chaining or halved the spawn rate on Draco or whatever - or, more accurately, it would have affected people for all of half an hour before they moved on to the next repfarm.

Why should it be "long-term upgrade system" with speed of the snail? Why should i spend few hours of "fair" work just to tap into one skill?

Why should anyone assume that the current state is exactly how things are supposed to work and nothing will change?

 

The intent was to give people enough content to last several months. If everyone spreads knowledge of a simple trick that lets any old player max out every tree in a week of easy-mode invisible backstabbing, the entire new system is wasted. Is the "normal" rate too slow? Yes. We know it. They know it. But that's why it's supposed to be changed. Completely, if needed.

 

And the only reason it's so slow is because of things like the guy who somehow farmed two million focus XP before the cap existed - if they had made it work exactly like regular affinity, people like that would have had, what, twenty million and everything maxed out by the time DE got back from their weekend?

[letir]

The intent was to give people enough content to last several months. If everyone spreads knowledge of a simple trick that lets any old player max out every tree in a week of easy-mode invisible backstabbing, the entire new system is wasted. Is the "normal" rate too slow? Yes. We know it. They know it. But that's why it's supposed to be changed. Completely, if needed.

 

And the only reason it's so slow is because of things like the guy who somehow farmed two million focus XP before the cap existed - if they had made it work exactly like regular affinity, people like that would have had, what, twenty million and everything maxed out by the time DE got back from their weekend?

What do you mean "wasted"??? Do every system in this game exist only to extend amount of grind and punish every "casual" player? It's endgame feature, it should be used - not restrained with grindwalls and day cap.

 

And don't try to turn truth around. Draco and over "loot caves" is popular, beacuse affinity gain is too slow. Nobody wants to get bloody 300-1000 points of affinity in "normal" mission, if they can hit cap within 15 min.

[Davoodoo]

have you never played a beta??? WE ARE TESTERS!

Have ever seen QA testing?? It could prevent all technical problems.

 

Protip, were not QA testers.

 

 

Even then its really simple system, more work was put into creating quest than for system itself.

If anyone plans on telling me that it took more than week(excluding animations) to create focus ill call him a liar.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Davoodoo

[MumblesMcphatty]

Why all these people complaining about NOT reaching the cap? I guess it's an improvement on complaining about the caps very existence - but it still makes no sense to me.

It's not a race or a sports season - there's no reason you have to hit 75k every single day, is there?

The whole system is designed around your max gear still earning you progression. It's an ongoing, gradual accumulation designed to run alongside the rest of your playtime - there's no quota or goals other than those you choose to set yourselves. If you can't hit it daily - you can't do it - what does it matter?

Feedback is well and good but why do so many of you consistently make no damn sense?!

[Sevlessa]

Why all these people complaining about NOT reaching the cap?

 

If you reach the cap every single day, it takes 1.5 YEARS to max out all the trees. That's an absurd amount of time already. Can you see why people who play the game as usual and get 10-15k focus each day might be a tad annoyed about this? It can literally take a decade if you're only on a couple of hours a day and don't want to spend a quarter of that time cheesing the system with stealth kills.

 

Even if you don't particularly care about this, it should be pretty clear why some people are complaining.

 

There is nothing else in the game that requires anything remotely close to this level of grind. Even Ivara's absolutely ridiculous number of spy runs the unluckiest players will have to do can be done in a few weeks. This is a grind that is completely unachievable for me before the game eventually closes its doors. If you factor in that I'm almost certainly going to quit playing the game before then, it's even worse.

[FelisImpurrator]

What do you mean "wasted"??? Do every system in this game exist only to extend amount of grind and punish every "casual" player? It's endgame feature, it should be used - not restrained with grindwalls and day cap.

If you reach the cap every single day, it takes 1.5 YEARS to max out all the trees. That's an absurd amount of time already. Can you see why people who play the game as usual and get 10-15k focus each day might be a tad annoyed about this? It can literally take a decade if you're only on a couple of hours a day and don't want to spend a quarter of that time cheesing the system with stealth kills.

It's very simple. I'm going to explain a thing, and I'm going to keep saying it until people understand what is happening with the Focus system.

 

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT COMPLETELY.

 

Is that clear enough? I hope it is, because I really don't understand why anyone thinks the current system will exist in a month, much less "years".

[Neah]

It's very simple. I'm going to explain a thing, and I'm going to keep saying it until people understand what is happening with the Focus system.

 

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT COMPLETELY.

 

Is that clear enough? I hope it is, because I really don't understand why anyone thinks the current system will exist in a month, much less "years".

 

Pretty sure everyone understands that. But until that happens, people are surely going to put forth their thoughts regarding the current system, which is bad. I hope DE would release some sort of statement or even make a thread on the Dev Workshop to inform people of the changes to the current system, ease us off our panic. (Or maybe add to it).

[FelisImpurrator]

Pretty sure everyone understands that. But until that happens, people are surely going to put forth their thoughts regarding the current system, which is bad. I hope DE would release some sort of statement or even make a thread on the Dev Workshop to inform people of the changes to the current system, ease us off our panic. (Or maybe add to it).

Really? That's not what I'm seeing, with this "It's going to take us years to finish anything!" mass hysteria. Most people commenting in threads like this haven't displayed a single shred of ability to think in terms of more than the immediate present, so that's the context I'm replying in right now.

 

I mean, for my part I dislike nearly every aspect of the Focus system besides the lore, but panicking over something like the length of time it would hypothetically take to max out the system under the current cap - an impossible scenario that will never, ever come to pass, because by the time the new year rolls around we'll probably have a totally different system - isn't going to help them. I'm sure they've done the math. The 75k cap isn't meant to make the system finishable. It's a placeholder.

[Neah]

Really? That's not what I'm seeing, with this "It's going to take us years to finish anything!" mass hysteria. Most people commenting in threads like this haven't displayed a single shred of ability to think in terms of more than the immediate present, so that's the context I'm replying in right now.

 

I mean, for my part I dislike nearly every aspect of the Focus system besides the lore, but panicking over something like the length of time it would hypothetically take to max out the system under the current cap - an impossible scenario that will never, ever come to pass, because by the time the new year rolls around we'll probably have a totally different system - isn't going to help them. I'm sure they've done the math. The 75k cap isn't meant to make the system finishable. It's a placeholder.

 

With excitement comes expectations,

Within expectations there are disappointments;

With disappointments come frustration,

With frustration comes anger.

 

Not entirely their fault. I'll admit that I'm one of those who is also frustrated at the time needed to max out stuff in the current state, but because there is so little information released on DE's part that I begin to worry, and subsequently be frustrated. And coupled with the people who actually think that 1.5 years is reasonable to finish the trees, just boggles my mind to no end. All in all, I agree that some patience is required here. In the meantime we'll continue to provide feedback on the current system at hand.

[Sevlessa]

Really? That's not what I'm seeing, with this "It's going to take us years to finish anything!" mass hysteria. Most people commenting in threads like this haven't displayed a single shred of ability to think in terms of more than the immediate present, so that's the context I'm replying in right now.

 

I am honestly amazed by the degree to which you've managed to misinterpret my words. I was offering critique on the current implementation of the focus system, which gives you so little focus that it can take a decade to max out the trees with reasonable amounts of play (as I stated earlier). You took this statement and somehow managed to gloriously misinterpret it as me stating that DE is not going to change the focus system for at least a couple of years.

 

It only took one more post of yours after that for my entirely reasonable statement of facts about the current focus system to be upgraded to "mass hysteria." Good show, man. Good show.

[Awazx]

Passives need to start on and stay on

[Vasault]

have you never played a beta??? WE ARE TESTERS!

 

stop being a fanboy, a beta is a beta, this isn't an early beta state, is game that has been here for over 3 years now, an update that has been in development for more than a year, and it feels like it was made in like 2 months

[HunterFenrir]

Ok this thread needs to stop, nearly half of it is full of people going ham as if DE meant for the Focus system to be terrible while the other half is trying to defend DE. Either way it is a fact that Warframe is no longer Beta BUT it is also a fact that the Focus System IS in BETA. The Focus system was never tested by a large player count so for them to know what needs fixing and tweaking they had to put out the Focus system as a Beta for feedback. Now I'm not saying those supporting DE is completely correct as yes it is quite strange that a system in development for a long time isn't very well done but keep in mind that during that time they were also developing other stuff(And they have Warframe China to deal with).

Edit: So can everyone just stop sounding like you're scolding DE and instead sound more like you're addressing and issue and giving suggestions?

Bad Example: OMFG DE UR FOCUS SYSTEM IS SO BUGGED WTF U SPENT SO LONG TO GIVE US THIS BAD STUFF.

Good Example: There is a bug with the Focus system where <Evidence> so please take note asap

Edited December 15, 2015 by HunterFenrir

[__Kanade__]

I only just got back on after a long hiatus, somewhere around the time of the Archwing update was when I had just stopped playing altogether though I was on rarely from time to time.

 

Only just came back to Warframe yesterday when I saw a posting on Facebook about The Second Dream update.

 

I will say Warframe has come a long way from the very early days when it was just Grineer roaming Corpus ships using Bratons telling you to leave their mother out of it.

 

Loved The Second Dream quest, mind blown.

 

I can't really say anything about the Focus System as I just finished Second Dream among other things that are new in the game, I'm a bit confused on the other new features like the Eximus thingy.

 

I'll reserve an opinion once I understand the Focus System alittle more. Hell, I pressed 5 on a whim that maybe it might have had something to do with the Focus meter when it's fully charged.

 

I've been here since Day 1 of Warframe but after just coming back, it feels completely brand new to me. I don't even know when Excalibur got his abilities redone but I love it.

Edited December 15, 2015 by __Kanade__

[TheGunSlanger]

Ignoring the oodles of comments in here, let me just say one thing.

 

Better to have a minimal, perhaps buggy or unfinished system intitially, that evolves into something epic, than have a fleshed out system that we don't want.

[HunterFenrir]

I only just got back on after a long hiatus, somewhere around the time of the Archwing update was when I had just stopped playing altogether though I was on rarely from time to time.

Only just came back to Warframe yesterday when I saw a posting on Facebook about The Second Dream update.

I will say Warframe has come a long way from the very early days when it was just Grineer roaming Corpus ships using Bratons telling you to leave their mother out of it.

Loved The Second Dream quest, mind blown.

I can't really say anything about the Focus System as I just finished Second Dream among other things that are new in the game, I'm a bit confused on the other new features like the Eximus thingy.

I'll reserve an opinion once I understand the Focus System alittle more. Hell, I pressed 5 on a whim that maybe it might have had something to do with the Focus meter when it's fully charged.

I've been here since Day 1 of Warframe but after just coming back, it feels completely brand new to me. I don't even know when Excalibur got his abilities redone but I love it.

Welcome back Tenno :D

Ignoring the oodles of comments in here, let me just say one thing.

Better to have a minimal, perhaps buggy or unfinished system intitially, that evolves into something epic, than have a fleshed out system that we don't want.

Indeed

[Sevlessa]

Better to have a minimal, perhaps buggy or unfinished system intitially, that evolves into something epic, than have a fleshed out system that we don't want.

 

It's a very good thing those aren't anywhere close to the only options. Many non-Warframe games are actually able to do an excellent job consistently on new content. They don't drop unfinished, uninteresting, buggy messes all over their players constantly.

 

I think it would even better to have a cool system that's reasonably well developed from day one. I find it ridiculous that DE have lowered so many players' expectations to the point that they consider this to be asking too much. The fact that you don't seem to mind them releasing a buggy, underdeveloped, and just plain bad system in the first place is simply another part of the problem.

[SuperPancakes]

Honestly, I have no problem with what the focus system does, and the perks you get. However, I do have concern about the affinity to focus system, ratio. I appreciate that DE is looking at long term and end-game features like focus and sorties, but the focus system's affinity to focus grind seems rough. If they do change the focus tree system and change(buff or nerf) perks in any of the schools, I would hope DE would reimburse us and return  our focus points back to us when the focus system leaves beta, so we can properly invest our points into something more certain.

[Shezo]

Ignoring the oodles of comments in here, let me just say one thing.

 

Better to have a minimal, perhaps buggy or unfinished system intitially, that evolves into something epic, than have a fleshed out system that we don't want.

 

Because it worked out great for kubrows, invasion system and archwings.

Invasions are 2 years old and never got fleshed out.

Kubrows are as derpy as there at the inception.

And archwing is still lacking, a year after release.

 

At this point, i'd really prefer more fleshed out systems.

[Davoodoo]

Because it worked out great for kubrows, invasion system and archwings.

Invasions are 2 years old and never got fleshed out.

Kubrows are as derpy as there at the inception.

And archwing is still lacking, a year after release.

 

At this point, i'd really prefer more fleshed out systems.

You forgot nightmares.

 

Concept pretty much forgotten after initial introduction.

[CrimsonSkies00]

The skill CD is TOO LONG!!

Even with MAX MASTERY!!

Less use = Useless  you know what i talking about DE

Vazarin equip 3 skill with max mastery...Is more than 300 second! <WTF?

[FelisImpurrator]

It only took one more post of yours after that for my entirely reasonable statement of facts about the current focus system to be upgraded to "mass hysteria." Good show, man. Good show.

If you think that second post was referring specifically to you and you alone, your ego has to be bigger than the missteps made with the Focus rollout.

 

Besides, what it boils down to is still this: It is completely irrelevant that the current cap makes it impossible to max out Focus in under a year, because the cap itself is not meant to be a long-term mechanic. The capped rate isn't actually intended to be finishable because it's going to be changed/removed as soon as exploits are fixed, and affinity rate being unreasonable can't be changed until people stop being able to gain 100k focus in fifteen minutes with zero effort. So it's impossible to max the system out at the moment. Yes, it is. And water is wet, and the Mk1-Braton sucks. What, in other words, is your point? What does it add to the discussion to state the obvious?

 

I am honestly amazed by the degree to which you've managed to miss the point.

[Davoodoo]

If you think that second post was referring specifically to you and you alone, your ego has to be bigger than the missteps made with the Focus rollout.

 

Besides, what it boils down to is still this: It is completely irrelevant that the current cap makes it impossible to max out Focus in under a year, because the cap itself is not meant to be a long-term mechanic. The capped rate isn't actually intended to be finishable because it's going to be changed/removed as soon as exploits are fixed, and affinity rate being unreasonable can't be changed until people stop being able to gain 100k focus in fifteen minutes with zero effort. So it's impossible to max the system out at the moment. Yes, it is. And water is wet, and the Mk1-Braton sucks. What, in other words, is your point? What does it add to the discussion to state the obvious?

 

I am honestly amazed by the degree to which you've managed to miss the point.

So after they nerf it to the point where you simply wont be able to reach 75k a day, cap will get removed and everyone will be able to rejoice.

It will still take years but yeah, problem fixed.

[FelisImpurrator]

So after they nerf it to the point where you simply wont be able to reach 75k a day, cap will get removed and everyone will be able to rejoice.

It will still take years but yeah, problem fixed.

Thank you for reading my post and drawing the exact, diametrically opposite conclusion from what I was actually saying.

 

Here, let me explain it more simply: If they make regular focus more forgiving (i.e., actually reasonable) right now, then they also make exploits even more broken. Therefore, they have to fix the exploits before adjusting focus to make it less awfully slow. There is a clear progression in linear time. This isn't quantum physics.

 

Even simpler translation: It's not supposed to take two years in the final product. It's also not supposed to take three days. They need to make it not take three days before they make it not take two years.

[Davoodoo]

Thank you for reading my post and drawing the exact, diametrically opposite conclusion from what I was actually saying.

 

Here, let me explain it more simply: If they make regular focus more forgiving (i.e., actually reasonable) right now, then they also make exploits even more broken. Therefore, they have to fix the exploits before adjusting focus to make it less awfully slow. There is a clear progression in linear time. This isn't quantum physics.

 

Even simpler translation: It's not supposed to take two years in the final product. It's also not supposed to take three days. They need to make it not take three days before they make it not take two years.

Because your conclusion was wrong. 

 

De initially put it low and players like always found a way to efficiently farm it.

And de already did that once, with syndicates, before they finally put very low cap and increased rate.

So yeah de made a quick reaction and put a cap.

 

And dont tell me its because its fresh, de knew for years now how much exp you can get from draco and still put current rates in.

 

Whats the logical conclusion to draw here?? theyll either increase grind or lower cap.

Either way prepare for years of farm.