Pvp Feedback From A Newcomer To Pvp In Warframe

[Adaptor-Face]

Before i start i would like to say, im a newcomer to PvP only. i have almost all weapons and frames with potatoes (yes even the MK1 weapons).

 

ORO system

When you kill someone, having your hard earned oro denied by an enemy standing next to them is really frustrating, please have the oro be immune to be denied for a brief moment to avoid a quad kill only awarding 1 oro because they grouped up.

 

 

Team colors, map and UI

The UI does not tell you what team you belong to. to check which team you belong to you need to open the score board, which you cant do while dead, the time when you have the time to do so.

 

Team coloring is also not working for Team Sun, as the icon above the enemies head is orange, kill feed is blue. Either adjust it so that orange is always enemy, or that it respects team color.

 

Map does not tell you where your "base" is in CTC, the tile tries to but it shows team insignia and that ties back to the first issue in this section.

there is also no reason that map markers gets "stuck" on doors on the map. i want to know where they are, not how to get there. most noticable in the asteroid map

 

 

P2P, leavers and finding a game

The biggest issue with PvP is that it uses P2P, which in almost all my games i have had it resulted in me dying from someone meleeing where i was 1 second ago, hitting me when they clearly isnt and dying well after turning a corner. (and no, this is not my connections fault, im sitting on a 1/1 GBit connection when im at my place)

 

The other part is that there is no penalty to leave, making me, the player who need standing, having to endure 5 minutes of 1v4 beacuse i dont want to lose the challange i completed.

 

Lastly, i keep finding games that are 1 minute left of, and find myself being the only one in the team aswell, making my "lifetime stats" plummet (which i dont care for anymore because of this)

 

 

Things that triggers/pisses me off:

 

Cant open menu (esc) while dead. (its more of a general warframe  issue, but more relevant for pvp #ragequit)

 

 

STUNLOCKS SHOULD NOT BE A THING IN ANY GAME EVER! IMHO stuns should not be provided by weapons AT ALL, it feels cheap to die from, has no counter and costs nothing for the user. Abilties have atleast a cost 

 

Anticipation should be an integrated part of the game(pvp), not a mod that you have to buy with standing (which in turn slows down your ranking progress)

 

a game should not start as 1v1+, just got matched in a lobby, me vs 3 others and it started

Summary

So far i have had one game where i felt things were balanced, fun and fair, and that was when noone was using stunlocks or stun/knockdown at all.

 

 

tl;dr: game does not properly inform the player about things, something needs to be done about the P2P, STUNS ARE CHEAP AND STUNLOCK SHOULD NOT BE A THING! im looking at you tipedo, dual kamas and jat kittag

Edited December 21, 2015 by Adaptor-Face

[Lordricker]

WOW, a newcomer that actaully like played a little and did a little research. I am impressed.

 

only thing i can think to say that you might not know is that if people group up before joining a team match in conclave they will stick together through matches, otherwise it will keep it as even as it can if at an uneven number (1v2, 2v3) but yes something needs to be done about match making, although with the current player base it might not do much even if it were implemented :/

[Adaptor-Face]

WOW, a newcomer that actaully like played a little and did a little research. I am impressed.

 

only thing i can think to say that you might not know is that if people group up before joining a team match in conclave they will stick together through matches, otherwise it will keep it as even as it can if at an uneven number (1v2, 2v3) but yes something needs to be done about match making, although with the current player base it might not do much even if it were implemented :/

i just hit hurricane rank so..........

[Lordricker]

so... are you trying to say your not a newcomer?

 

im just used to someone who seemed like they played one or two matches then coming here to claim something that doesnt even make sense for pvp,

 

if your at hurricane already im not really sure thats a newcomer :P but what you say makes sense like the UI stuff i just overlook but now that you say something im like oh yea that is weird...

[Adaptor-Face]

so... are you trying to say your not a newcomer?

 

im just used to someone who seemed like they played one or two matches then coming here to claim something that doesnt even make sense for pvp,

 

if your at hurricane already im not really sure thats a newcomer :P but what you say makes sense like the UI stuff i just overlook but now that you say something im like oh yea that is weird...

newcomer in the fact i have only played one week. i also played some when PvP first came out and alot has changed since then. its also quite easy ranking up as a MR21

Edited December 21, 2015 by Adaptor-Face

[Thelonious]

I've been playing PvP for 2 weeks (shiny new skins), just hit Rank 5 (whatever the name is), and I can't agree more.

 

Emphasis on the respawning phase, you can't even check your score ffs. And you're certainly not gonna check it during the 5 secs of invulnerability.

 

Edit: Also, the complete lack of matchmaking. Fully-modded R5 players matched against MR0 newcomers? wtf. It shouldn't happen, at all.

It makes sense to match players of the same experience together, according to PvP rank.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Thelonious

[Miyabi-sama]

Never succeeded to stun someone even once, not to mention stunlocks.

 

How ppl do that? What range I should land?

[stoybot]

Never succeeded to stun someone even once, not to mention stunlocks.

 

How ppl do that? What range I should land?

 

The people who abuse these mechanics usually use frames that have easy knockdown abilities like Nekros or Banshee (not as easy as Nekros). Staggering is also rather nasty if you're up against an Atlas or Excal. Finally, there's always the Jat Kittag.

[rockscl]

so it takes 2 weeks to get to typhoon? it felt like a year to me, the magic of following DE on this

 

 

Never succeeded to stun someone even once, not to mention stunlocks.

 

How ppl do that? What range I should land?

 

your weapon may not stun on slam, slams in general stun like under 3 meters when they are capable of, by example dex dakra, dual heat swords, are weapons that do not knockdown on slam

 

the other thing is the stuns from combos pre-pause attack, basically you equip a stance and on your second attack you have a stun in most cases

Edited December 21, 2015 by rockscl

[Lordricker]

newcomer in the fact i have only played one week. i also played some when PvP first came out and alot has changed since then. its also quite easy ranking up as a MR21

 

hmm, guess i just forgot how easy it was to rank up, i guess challenges help now too. and also MR 21 lets you get a lot per day 

 

Also yes on the accessing menu while dead that needs to be a thing.

 

also with matchmaking it can end up fully modded MR5 vs a new guy at highest MR which further emphasizes that matchmaking should be based off of stats from playing PVP not PVE

[Nighttide77]

If equipped melee cannot at least stun to get a finishing combo in, which does actually take a bit of work from the melee user, what mechanic should melee be given to make it viable in a gun fight where everyone has high mobility?

[Cyandana]

But the Dragon Nikana channel. :o

[Hairein]

^This

[SevenLetterKWord]

The UI does not tell you what team you belong to.

 

Team coloring is also not working for Team Sun, as the icon above the enemies head is orange, kill feed is blue. Either adjust it so that orange is always enemy, or that it respects team color.

 

Map does not tell you where your "base" is in CTC, the tile tries to but it shows team insignia and that ties back to the first issue in this section.

 

STUNLOCKS SHOULD NOT BE A THING IN ANY GAME EVER! IMHO stuns should not be provided by weapons AT ALL, it feels cheap to die from, has no counter and costs nothing for the user. Abilties have atleast a cost

The UI does tell you, though it's not obvious. Look at the score icons for Sun and Moon. Whichever is on the left side is your team.

 

The icons are red, not orange. They're always red. Enemies are red.

 

CtC maps aren't that complicated, you can learn your way around them after a handful of matches.That being said, it wouldn't hurt to mark the bases and perhaps even the location of stolen cephalons.

 

There are no stunlocks. You have so many options to escape with parkour 2.0, try any of them... I suggest rolling.

[Adaptor-Face]

If equipped melee cannot at least stun to get a finishing combo in, which does actually take a bit of work from the melee user, what mechanic should melee be given to make it viable in a gun fight where everyone has high mobility?

because with stuns (like it is now) its incredebly hard to escape from, due to it being P2P they still hit you "mid air", and stops all of your movement, and it has no counter.

 

and high mobility is problem for all weapons not just melee

 

why should melee be the only weapon type you can't escape from when you have so much mobility to get in range?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Adaptor-Face

[Nighttide77]

because with stuns (like it is now) its incredebly hard to escape from, due to it being P2P they still hit you "mid air", and stops all of your movement, and it has no counter.

and high mobility is problem for all weapons not just melee

why should melee be the only weapon type you can't escape from when you have so much mobility to get in range?

My question was actually asking for a counter-solution. If you don't want equipped melee to stagger, then what do you suggest instead?

And...it is supposed to be hard to escape. You're supposed to make yourself impossible to get a hold of. If a melee player does manage to get a hold of you, shouldn't they be rewarded for that effort? At the same time, with the current staggering, players actually have to complete the combo or attack sequence, not just mash an attack button. If they make a mistake in finishing the combo, their target can actually escape.

As much mobility as melee has to get in range, players also have the mobility to just move vertically and totally avoid melee attacks because almost all melee attack animations do not strike well above a frame's head.

[BoyTitan]

I've been playing PvP for 2 weeks (shiny new skins), just hit Rank 5 (whatever the name is), and I can't agree more.

 

Emphasis on the respawning phase, you can't even check your score ffs. And you're certainly not gonna check it during the 5 secs of invulnerability.

 

Edit: Also, the complete lack of matchmaking. Fully-modded R5 players matched against MR0 newcomers? wtf. It shouldn't happen, at all.

It makes sense to match players of the same experience together, according to PvP rank.

Mr has nonthing to do with skill I am mr7 and aside from the vets most people are free kills normally. I am mr7.

[Dzecar]

Mr has nonthing to do with skill

MOST of low MR players cannot farm PvP standing(and core mods like quick charge, anticipation, enguard) due to lack of availible daily rep/equipment/mods(end of mission reward ones), etc.

No matter how skilled you are. You will never beat someone of (at least) your level of skill who can use all meta loadouts without proper gear

Edited December 22, 2015 by Tahem

[Adaptor-Face]

My question was actually asking for a counter-solution. If you don't want equipped melee to stagger, then what do you suggest instead?

And...it is supposed to be hard to escape. You're supposed to make yourself impossible to get a hold of. If a melee player does manage to get a hold of you, shouldn't they be rewarded for that effort? At the same time, with the current staggering, players actually have to complete the combo or attack sequence, not just mash an attack button. If they make a mistake in finishing the combo, their target can actually escape.

As much mobility as melee has to get in range, players also have the mobility to just move vertically and totally avoid melee attacks because almost all melee attack animations do not strike well above a frame's head.

Warframe PvP is Close Quarter Combat for the most part (the exception is CTC where the Cephalons are), which makes getting INTO melee range really easy. melee also hit in an arc thus being able to hit MULTIPLE ENEMIES AT ONCE, something ranged weapons cant. 

 

your reward is that your target can try to fight (requring them to aim at someone right in their face and that are moving around quickly) or run. THATS the reward melee have. short story: they need to have skill in order to fight someone mashing E at different intervals, and you want to disable their skill with stuns.

 

and last time i checked melee combos ARE SUPER EASY TO DO, unless you want to tell me in pvp they require you to mash 15 buttons at once to swing once. also stuns are BEFORE combo branches (unless im missing something) or ON EVERY GODDAMN HIT. a stun on the last part of a branch so that you get rewarded for completeing said branch is ok, but THIS IS NOT  how it works at its current itteration.

 

im trying to tell you melee has enough advantages that they dont need to be able to leave the target defenseless.

 

EDIT: last time i check melee damage is handled client side, while ranged weapons are server side, moving lag to the recepiant ONLY

Edited December 22, 2015 by Adaptor-Face

[Lordricker]

-snip-

 

The reward being the person you caught up to having the choice to fight or run is not a reward, they will always run because they have a ranged weapon so fighting with 0 distance is not advantageous for them, melee would never be able to keep up because you cant move as well while meleeing.

 

Yes combos are easy to do but not as easy as you say, with dual zorren swilry tiger stance i probably get the right move about 80% of the time and the other 20% i am completely vulnerable since the attack doesnt stagger and deals like 10 dmg. on that note the dual zorren while melee equiped staggers with slide attack, half way through the correct stance move (if you get it wrong it wont stagger) and the very last move will knockdown. Slams only deal dmg.

 

Melee would be useless if targets could simply run away from every encounter

 

 

MOST of low MR players cannot farm PvP standing(and core mods like quick charge, anticipation, enguard) due to lack of availible daily rep/equipment/mods(end of mission reward ones), etc.

No matter how skilled you are. You will never beat someone of (at least) your level of skill who can use all meta loadouts without proper gear

 

i was about to say ;P im only mr8 and loving the daikyu skin :D

[Phasedragon]

i was about to say ;P im only mr8 and loving the daikyu skin :D

Really? I haven't gotten it because I figured it wouldn't change much, considering daikyus original design and small overall surface area. Is it a good skin?

[Phasedragon]

i was about to say ;P im only mr8 and loving the daikyu skin :D

Really? I haven't gotten it because I figured it wouldn't change much, considering daikyus original design and small overall surface area. Is it a good skin? Edited December 22, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[Lordricker]

lol not really i was just pointing out im at max rank in conclave

[Nighttide77]

Warframe PvP is Close Quarter Combat for the most part (the exception is CTC where the Cephalons are), which makes getting INTO melee range really easy. melee also hit in an arc thus being able to hit MULTIPLE ENEMIES AT ONCE, something ranged weapons cant.

your reward is that your target can try to fight (requring them to aim at someone right in their face and that are moving around quickly) or run. THATS the reward melee have. short story: they need to have skill in order to fight someone mashing E at different intervals, and you want to disable their skill with stuns.

and last time i checked melee combos ARE SUPER EASY TO DO, unless you want to tell me in pvp they require you to mash 15 buttons at once to swing once. also stuns are BEFORE combo branches (unless im missing something) or ON EVERY GODDAMN HIT. a stun on the last part of a branch so that you get rewarded for completeing said branch is ok, but THIS IS NOT how it works at its current itteration.

im trying to tell you melee has enough advantages that they dont need to be able to leave the target defenseless.

EDIT: last time i check melee damage is handled client side, while ranged weapons are server side, moving lag to the recepiant ONLY

Many melee users would argue that before U18, melee had many disadvantages against guns.

Using equipped melee also requires staying in melee range in order to land consecutive hits. No melee has the ability to 1-shot on normal cases, and therefore requires the ability to hit multiple times. Before U18, a person could get hit once and then simply bullet jump away.

The stagger part of a combo comes either at a slide attack or right before the pause in a combo. On every stance, that's after the first normal attack that does nothing by itself.

As well, melee range is so short that being able to hit more than one person is more by chance...and only happens when everyone gets in this wonderful cluster...that also is very easy to AOE bomb. I have never seen anyone manage to stagger more than one person at a time.

You might also note that shotguns and bows have the ability to hit more than one opponent, as well as explosives. I have multi-fragged players on more than one occasion.

Equipped melee's ability to move faster than a run-and-gunner is barely an advantage, even with the Sword Alone mod. A gunner can easily put distance between themselves and an equipped melee user the moment a melee user makes the first strike...unless the melee user opens with a slide attack, which players are still able to bullet jump over.

Melee combos that stagger and such aren't very easy to do because the moment you make a hit, suddenly your attack speed changes, and thus also the rhythm of the attack clicks. This takes a bit of skill and practice. For some it comes easy, but that doesn't change the fact that it is more than just button mashing.

If you are having a problem with opponents managing to get so close and stay close, then it isn't the system that's the problem. No veteran is going to tell you that it's easy for anyone to get to them in melee range and stay on top of them.

[Lordricker]

for most of the experience players i play with melee is completely useless even with staggers, they are in the air a lot and very hard to keep up with, and sometimes if you do manage to get close they can kill you before you get the stance out :/