Why Is F2P An Excuse, Not A Feature? (Anymore)

[MagPrime]

That would be a certain unnamed StarWars MMO made by a certain two letter publisher neither of which I'll name.

____________________

More on topic I don't find the grind all that bad but most gamers now days are spoiled by the instant gratification others have instilled on them.

I use to play Ultima Online and you could spend two years on a single character reaching end game status, things took time. StarWars Galaxies was the same way where everything was player made but starter gear.(At least till Sony ruined it trying to copy EverQuest's now standard class system)

I miss the old Star Wars Galaxies. It was my first ever MMO.

[es.iiden]

please keep in mind that the company has to make money

yea but they dont need to attempt to screw you over at every turn. There are lots of games that do the F2P model far better than Warframe.

Edited December 25, 2015 by ThatWhichWasTaken

[SilvaDreams]

I miss the old Star Wars Galaxies. It was my first ever MMO.

Weeeelllll it's still around.. Sorta there has been a project in the work since they did that...just look for SWGEmu via google. It's not quite a perfect copy of the pre patch as Sony claims they lost all the data years ago when they were pensioned for a release of the data by the group and thousands of players.

So no Jump to Light speed expansion, yet.

[MagPrime]

Weeeelllll it's still around.. Sorta there has been a project in the work since they did that...just look for SWGEmu via google. It's not quite a perfect copy of the pre patch as Sony claims they lost all the data years ago when they were pensioned for a release of the data by the group and thousands of players.

So no Jump to Light speed expansion, yet.

Good to know. ^.^

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

yea but they dont need to attempt to screw you over at every turn. There are lots of games that do the F2P model far better than Warframe.

That's a hyperbolic statement if i've ever seen one.  Care to name 3?

[SilvaDreams]

That's a hyperbolic statement if i've ever seen one.  Care to name 3?

I want to see this too, Warframe has one of the best f2p models yet. Plus it's sustainable for them with the vaulting of primes and re-releases of them meaning the economy stays good for the players and them.

[(XBOX)Yiazzy]

For christ sake.

I'll put it in bullet points for you.

-You're given Broken War at the end TSD. Max it and use it to craft it's better version. Simple, no Plat involved.

-Stop using Wukong as an argument, if your clan isn't active enough to farm Nitain quickly, leave and start a new clan with your active members. Simple. No plat cost.

[TMHowler]

Grindwalls are only hard for the clans that have more leeches than normal players. And Wukong proved that.

 

As for the War vs Broken War discussion - it was said on one of the devstreams that Broken war will be present as a sortie reward at some point, so to all those complaining that they can't instagrab all the "1337 cool kind stuffz" the moment they come out, I can only ask them to be patient about it. DE is not PW, nor EA.

 

In the end, think of the things you really NEED to pay plat for and then wave the flag that Warframe's F2P is an excuse (that is pointed at the OP)

[Enno69]

I, too, don't agree with the OP, no offense. You don't NEED any of those things that are hard to get. Buy them - or take your time to obtain them in game, it might take a bit of time but it's no real issue (mostly - I can understand the frustration for Nezha for ex, as each day only gives one random chance of obtaining a part). Progression really isn't bad, you don't have to wait for months to get a gun or something, like I'm sure happens in some other games, F2P or not (Destiny...).

I have barely any prime frames and weaps and I do just fine. I farmed Ivara, which was fun, and my clan has almost finished researching Wukong - it took a while, but I had zero reason not to be patient. Same for Nitain - I simply do all the alerts I see and I have enough of this ressource to craft what I want.

Not everything can be handed to us on a silver plate. The newest frames/weapons/items etc are never strictly required to enjoy the game and have fun with people.

[MegaPain]

 

 

I love Warframe and I will continue to support it, even through the form of discussion and feedbacks like this. 

 

 

Thats the reason why ppl like you will get fisted with every coming contend.

 

You have to decide is DE doing stuff cuz they listen to the players or are the players thinking in the direction DE planned stuff to happen anyway.

 

Instead:

WOW GJ DE thats exactly what i wanted fro whole YEAR! Oh what? you planned this allready 2 yeas ago? Great?

[MrJxt]

That's a hyperbolic statement if i've ever seen one.  Care to name 3?

^

 

I can't even think of 1 that's better than warframe.

[Tubsie]

 

I know that Devs gotta eat, but it's not how much you eat, it's how you eat. I am perfectly fine with paying for cosmetics bundle. Hell, I bought all of them but for Nyx (I don't use her) or Loki (I don't really like the design). But I am against bad business model such as this...

 

Bad business model? How many F2P games allow you to earn the cash only game currency freely in a game? Sell one maxed corrupted mod for about 350-400p, and you can have lots of inventory space. Sell another one and you can have nice cosmetics, without paying a cent in real cash. You wanna see a bad business model? I played a game where you could tame dragons and acquire them as pets and use in combat (forgot the name). It was F2P. Wanted more inventory space? Pay real cash. I mean really...inventory space with ONLY real cash with NO means of acquiring it otherwise? Not surprised that the game is no more.

 

I have no idea what damn downhill you're talking about, since most of the community seemed to very much like the Second Dream update for example. Warframe has been the only F2P game where you can earn the in-game currency through trading in-game stuff. They could take it away if they wanted. But then it would be more like Free-To-Pay, and very harsh message for new people: Pay us real cash so you get more inventory space so you can actually enjoy the game. Forcing is never good.

[Arithin]

While I feel  Nitian and wukong research were a poorly thought out thing... It only negatively affected people in large inactive clans.  An important aspect of Warframe that I enjoyed but seems to be actively discouraged.

 

The slots and orokin reactor issue is still one that needs to be addressed.  If you play the game and prefer to support the devs directly instead of getting into the plat trade this game is almost twice as expensive as Destiny.  And that's if you never purchase a frame or weapon outright and only buy plat with discounts.  Doesn't even get you everything.  Just slots and reactors for a fraction of the weapons.

[Gale47]

How about you stop looking at every other F2P but Warframe through rose-tinted glasses and recognize just how much better it is in comparison?

You can find plenty of reasons to do so above, so I feel it unnecessary to repeat those features.

Warframe is not pay to win by any stretch of imagination. War/Broken War is quite clearly an exception to the rule that's been solidifed hundreds of times beforehand and will surely be iterated upon in the coming updates. Criticism is one thing, being oblivious to facts is another.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Gale47

[tinyranitar]

For christ sake.

I'll put it in bullet points for you.

-You're given Broken War at the end TSD. Max it and use it to craft it's better version. Simple, no Plat involved.

-Stop using Wukong as an argument, if your clan isn't active enough to farm Nitain quickly, leave and start a new clan with your active members. Simple. No plat cost.

- But then I have no Broken War?

- And starts all other research again? Smart.

 

I want to see this too, Warframe has one of the best f2p models yet. Plus it's sustainable for them with the vaulting of primes and re-releases of them meaning the economy stays good for the players and them.

 

^

 

I can't even think of 1 that's better than warframe.

Easy: DotA 2. LaTale. HAWKEN (questionable but it is good).

 

At first I agreed with the OP, but then I took a step back and looked at things from a new players perspective.

Nitain isn't such an issue when you're MR1-10 and still gathering your weapons, resources and Warframes. Situations like the time wall are only an issue for veterans and players focused on getting Wukong, Nezha or Ivara ASAP.

From lurking the forums for a few days, I've come to realize that the loudest complaints come from players that have everything (or almost everything) when the new updates hit. For them, the time walls are horrible, unreasonable and disgruntaling.

For new players, it's less of an issue because they have so much catching up to do already.

As much as DE loves its vets and works hard to keep us around, they have to think of new players and making the game last longer for them as well.

I see your point, but that doesn't explain the War and Broken-War cycle. Maybe I was hasty about Wukong. (I never complained about Ivara and Nezha iirc).

 

How about you stop looking at every other F2P but Warframe through rose-tinted glasses and recognize just how much better it is in comparison?

You can find plenty of reasons to do so above, so I feel it unnecessary to repeat those features.

Warframe is not pay to win by any stretch of imagination. War/Broken War is quite clearly an exception to the rule that's been solidifed hundreds of times beforehand and will surely be iterated upon in the coming updates. Criticism is one thing, being oblivious to facts is another.

I am not saying it's Pay2Win, but it became much less enjoyable unless you put some cash in.

[tinyranitar]

"But it's free to play" is only ever said when players complain about stuff taking time or effort to get. DE is a company. They have this game to get money- and they deserve it.

 

Any time a player is being (IMO- figure I have to state this otherwise people will get their panties in a twist) lazy/entitled/ in general acting like everything should be handed to them on a silver platter BECAUSE it's a free game- not caring that there are people making it who rely on the income to feed their families- THAT is when it turns into "but it's free to play".

 

I always think of it as "And it's free to play", because I understand that these things exist for a reason, and that reason is- just as it seems- to get people to buy stuff. They HAVE to do that. They don't FORCE us to buy ANYTHING unless it's totally non-functional. MOST games would NEVER do that. DE spoils their community- sometimes I feel it bites them in the buttocks.

 

 

Quick edit: I will say though that I do not personally approve of what they have done with the whole War vs Broken War crafting requirements situation. THAT BEING SAID- DE Steve has said on his twitter than broken war will be offered in the future as a reward from sorties, so it IS still possible to get both of the swords without paying ANYTHING. IMO this solution is kinda lame since it makes no sense for sorties of all things to drop it, doesn't keep in line with lore, might ruin stuff for new players that join and have yet to do TSD, etc. The best solution would be for the broken war BP that shadow stalker drops to not take war to build- or for it to instead take shards of war or something that he can drop as a special "resource".

I never said that things should just be handed to us on a silver platter, I just ask for things we could actually get.

 

I don't understand why people still defend the ridiculous War -> Broken War -> War cycle. I noticed the tweet as well, but that was said before the fix making Broken-War drops from Stalker so it might be obsolete.

[(XBOX)Yiazzy]

- But then I have no Broken War?

- And starts all other research again? Smart.

Easy: DotA 2. LaTale. HAWKEN (questionable but it is good).

I see your point, but that doesn't explain the War and Broken-War cycle. Maybe I was hasty about Wukong. (I never complained about Ivara and Nezha iirc).

I am not saying it's Pay2Win, but it became much less enjoyable unless you put some cash in.

War is better than Broken War! That's like saying you'd rather keep your Soma over your Soma Prime -_-

And yes, research would be restarted. I'm done, including the three new ones, in less than a month.

[tinyranitar]

War is better than Broken War! That's like saying you'd rather keep your Soma over your Soma Prime -_-

And yes, research would be restarted. I'm done, including the three new ones, in less than a month.

"War is better than Broken-War!"

 

That's just like, your opinion, man. 

And even if that's true, I can still craft Soma if I ever wanted to touch it again.

 

Well, Wukong is also done in a month if I stayed. Nothing change.

[Rorgal_Sina]

Easy: DotA 2. LaTale. HAWKEN (questionable but it is good).

Seriously... HAWKEN???

 

Do you even realize, that Hawken is so dead, the Dev's literally gave up on it because it brings NO INCOME AT ALL????

 

So good business model = ones that only benefit players, amirite?

[(XBOX)Yiazzy]

"War is better than Broken-War!"

That's just like, your opinion, man.

And even if that's true, I can still craft Soma if I ever wanted to touch it again.

Well, Wukong is also done in a month if I stayed. Nothing change.

My opinion...sigh. Every damn time.

[tinyranitar]

My opinion...sigh. Every damn time.

So its stats has anything to do with the fact that make one weapon unattainable by forever sacrificing the other?

 

Seriously... HAWKEN???

 

Do you even realize, that Hawken is so dead, the Dev's literally gave up on it because it brings NO INCOME AT ALL????

 

So good business model = ones that only benefit players, amirite?

Well. that's why I am being skeptical about it too.

[Sloan441]

It is what it is. Some people just like to whine.

 

There's nothing to "win" in this game, so that argument is invalid.

[(XBOX)Yiazzy]

So its stats has anything to do with the fact that make one weapon unattainable by forever sacrificing the other?

For the love of god. War is statistically a better weapon than Broken War. All B-War is, is Mastery fodder, until you get the War drop. The only reason to keep B-War and have War at the same time, is to fill slots. If you have that many slots, then you have enough plat to just buy War. Argument invalid.

[tinyranitar]

For the love of god. War is statistically a better weapon than Broken War. All B-War is, is Mastery fodder, until you get the War drop. The only reason to keep B-War and have War at the same time, is to fill slots. If you have that many slots, then you have enough plat to just buy War. Argument invalid.

For the love of God, Broken War is by far the strongest single handed weapon, and if you hate the sluggish 2 handed animation this is the perfect melee. Strong damage, medium crit, good hit box, good stance.

 

It is what it is. Some people just like to whine.

 

There's nothing to "win" in this game, so that argument is invalid.

Oh well, the purpose of the game outside being badass space ninja is to collect, I believe, and that is a win. If a win cannot be achieved through normal means, then it is pay 2 win. 

 

I do not call Warframe P2W just yet, but it is getting there.

Edited December 25, 2015 by tinyranitar

[Tubsie]

Pretty weak argument considering how many weapons there are in Warframe, and you complain about two of them (War and Broken War). As for the "much less enjoyable unless you put cash in." phrase. Again: Sell a maxed corrupted mod or something similar. Earning the in-game currency in Warframe is made very easy. And if you're going to complain about "Oh but it requires cores, credits and time!". Well big news: Everything worth doing does. Especially in life. This game requires patience and it seems you don't have any.

 

Dota 2...seriously? You compare Warframe to a MOBA? And the fact you think Hawken is/was good tells quite a lot. Warframe actually has lore and story, unlike some games like DOTA and LoL. DOTA has what, 3 different types of game modes? Hooray. Go play that then since it is so awesome and earn some in-game curr- oh but wait, you can't. The only option is to use cash for cosmetics. Aw.