Anyone Else Think Excalibur Is Too Strong For A Starter Frame?

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Its that you seem to assume that every new player who chooses excalibur is given those mods and made too powerful by them.

Even though I can give the right compliment of mods to a new Volt player and have him tackle T3 void missions in a group, does that mean that Volt is too strong for new players?  According your argument "But they can be given those high end mods...." then yes, buecause I can give them a perfect mod build easily making them able to trounce the entire game.

If you think that every new player is getting the mods to run a solid EB build then you are way off base and really need to rethink things and look at them from a realistic new player experience, not the skewed experience you keep on harping on like it was what everyone had.

The simple fact is that the vast majority of new players can't get the mods needed to make EB all that powerful, meaning that the whole issue you're harping on is kinda moot because they can't tackle the T3/T4 void right out of the gate unless someone gives them all of the endgame mods.  Which really doesn't happen as often as you think.

You can't make Volt really powerful and do T3 runs without decent enough weapons. With Excalibur you can. Just yesterday on my alt account I killed lv 35 Death Squad having mk1 Braton and Skana. I just turned on EB for 5 seconds and slaughtered them. I had 4 melee mods equiped (maxed Pressure Point, R2 Shocking Touch, R0 Molten Impact and R2 Fury) I had none of the ability buffing mods as well, except for R4 Streamline which I found playing through normally. You can also kill lv 27 Phorid in 5 seconds, or any other Boss who doesn't have invulnerability periods. I'm actually curious now if I can kill Corrupted Vor with that setup, which is one of the most annoying bosses unless you have really decent weapons. You can also complete 20 minute survivals with lv20 enemies (haven't tried going higher yet)

 

A lot of people say that you need lots of good mods for EB to be good, but that's not entirely true. It still wrecks everything around level 30-35 and below with a few basic melee mods and NOTHING ELSE, and the only thing you have to watch for is energy drain. But even that is not that bad compared to most other warframes powers. Compared to other ultimates which cost 100 energy and kill your surrounding enemies once (and maybe not even all of them if there are lv20+ heavy units) EB can run for 30 seconds on that 100 energy (unmodded) and you can kill everything during those 30 seconds. Unlimited amounts of Bombards, Heavy Gunners, Bosses, Death Squads etc and just simple enemy crowds. Add some basic ability mods like Streamline and Continuity, which are not THAT hard to get on your own, you can almost double that 30 second time.

 

Just a comparison. Most warframe damage ults deal 1500 damage to enemies around you for 100 energy. EB (with a few basic mods like pressure point and low rank elemental mods) deal around 600 per swing (around 1000 with crits). Those swings also deal damage to all the enemies in a row, and you can do that for 30 seconds until you match the cost of regular ultimates. At level 20+ those 1500 damage ults won't be enough to kill most heavy units. EB can still do that with 3-5 swings (which only takes like 2 seconds) On top of that, you have mini-blinds to deal even more damage, and 60% damage reduction from the front.

[Inmemoratus]

You can't make Volt really powerful and do T3 runs without decent enough weapons. With Excalibur you can. Just yesterday on my alt account I killed lv 35 Death Squad having mk1 Braton and Skana. I just turned on EB for 5 seconds and slaughtered them. I had 4 melee mods equiped (maxed Pressure Point, R2 Shocking Touch, R0 Molten Impact and R2 Fury) I had none of the ability buffing mods as well, except for R4 Streamline which I found playing through normally. You can also kill lv 27 Phorid in 5 seconds, or any other Boss who doesn't have invulnerability periods. I'm actually curious now if I can kill Corrupted Vor with that setup, which is one of the most annoying bosses unless you have really decent weapons. You can also complete 20 minute survivals with lv20 enemies (haven't tried going higher yet)

 

A lot of people say that you need lots of good mods for EB to be good, but that's not entirely true. It still wrecks everything around level 30-35 and below with a few basic melee mods and NOTHING ELSE, and the only thing you have to watch for is energy drain. But even that is not that bad compared to most other warframes powers. Compared to other ultimates which cost 100 energy and kill your surrounding enemies once (and maybe not even all of them if there are lv20+ heavy units) EB can run for 30 seconds on that 100 energy (unmodded) and you can kill everything during those 30 seconds. Unlimited amounts of Bombards, Heavy Gunners, Bosses, Death Squads etc and just simple enemy crowds. Add some basic ability mods like Streamline and Continuity, which are not THAT hard to get on your own, you can almost double that 30 second time.

 

Just a comparison. Most warframe damage ults deal 1500 damage to enemies around you for 100 energy. EB (with a few basic mods like pressure point and low rank elemental mods) deal around 600 per swing (around 1000 with crits). Those swings also deal damage to all the enemies in a row, and you can do that for 30 seconds until you match the cost of regular ultimates. At level 20+ those 1500 damage ults won't be enough to kill most heavy units. EB can still do that with 3-5 swings (which only takes like 2 seconds) On top of that, you have mini-blinds to deal even more damage, and 60% damage reduction from the front.

Again, I started with Volt and I was doing void stuff really early. I didn't need any special weapons early on. Most non-prime weapons are easily enough for the void so all you need are a few decent mods for Volt too.

 

I mean just consider for a second how much damage Electric Shield can add.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[trunks013]

remember when loki was in starter frame ^.^ hey all frame can be super powerfull believe me ^.^ 

[Vicious_Vipa]

ok, I've just used Excalibur again, after a long time.

dark sector excavation (eventually) against level 90 infested was just a cakewalk. just by pressing one button. every monkey could have done that.

please keep in mind that I am barely MR 7.

the thing is, now I have some crucial mods that I did not have at the very beginning such as energy siphon, etc. which keep me from ever running out of energy.

I am convinced that the main problem with exalted blade is its great range and how easy it is to actually hit the enemies. it doesn't feel like you can ever miss. how boring!!

these 2 things should be nerfed.

because great things should always come at a price. I don't see the price of EB.

Do you?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[-CdG-Zilchy]

You can't make Volt really powerful and do T3 runs without decent enough weapons. With Excalibur you can. Just yesterday on my alt account I killed lv 35 Death Squad having mk1 Braton and Skana. I just turned on EB for 5 seconds and slaughtered them. I had 4 melee mods equiped (maxed Pressure Point, R2 Shocking Touch, R0 Molten Impact and R2 Fury) I had none of the ability buffing mods as well, except for R4 Streamline which I found playing through normally. You can also kill lv 27 Phorid in 5 seconds, or any other Boss who doesn't have invulnerability periods. I'm actually curious now if I can kill Corrupted Vor with that setup, which is one of the most annoying bosses unless you have really decent weapons. You can also complete 20 minute survivals with lv20 enemies (haven't tried going higher yet)

 

A lot of people say that you need lots of good mods for EB to be good, but that's not entirely true. It still wrecks everything around level 30-35 and below with a few basic melee mods and NOTHING ELSE, and the only thing you have to watch for is energy drain. But even that is not that bad compared to most other warframes powers. Compared to other ultimates which cost 100 energy and kill your surrounding enemies once (and maybe not even all of them if there are lv20+ heavy units) EB can run for 30 seconds on that 100 energy (unmodded) and you can kill everything during those 30 seconds. Unlimited amounts of Bombards, Heavy Gunners, Bosses, Death Squads etc and just simple enemy crowds. Add some basic ability mods like Streamline and Continuity, which are not THAT hard to get on your own, you can almost double that 30 second time.

 

Just a comparison. Most warframe damage ults deal 1500 damage to enemies around you for 100 energy. EB (with a few basic mods like pressure point and low rank elemental mods) deal around 600 per swing (around 1000 with crits). Those swings also deal damage to all the enemies in a row, and you can do that for 30 seconds until you match the cost of regular ultimates. At level 20+ those 1500 damage ults won't be enough to kill most heavy units. EB can still do that with 3-5 swings (which only takes like 2 seconds) On top of that, you have mini-blinds to deal even more damage, and 60% damage reduction from the front.

This guy gets it. To sum up in 1 paragraph, how many games have you played where you started and they handed you an ultimate doomsday weapon that could be further increased later on(when you had better gear) but in the meantime allowed you to fly through the game destroying the adventure of working your way past that tricky boss, the elation of finally beating that level etc and the fun of learning what your character can do with all it's skills? It is quite simply, destroying the game content experience and skipping progression in a game which is all about gradual progression. How many veterans complain about the lack of endgame content? So what happens when a new player rips through the game in 2 weeks? Where's the longevity? I know what I do when I finish a game that fast, I stop playing it and so will a lot of new players. Not everyone joins Warframe to grind in the void endlessly, many of them play to work their way through the game.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zilchy

[HAYABU5A]

excalibro himself is ok but exalted blade (and tonkor) are massively overpowered, which is fine since ofc its pve except for the fact it stagnates and trivializes gameplay

 

it will just make bored newer player get bored faster and veterans have already died of boredom 

[Thebel]

This guy gets it. To sum up in 1 paragraph, how many games have you played where you started and they handed you an ultimate doomsday weapon that could be further increased later on(when you had better gear) but in the meantime allowed you to fly through the game destroying the adventure of working your way past that tricky boss, the elation of finally beating that level etc and the fun of learning what your character can do with all it's skills? It is quite simply, destroying the game content experience and skipping progression in a game which is all about gradual progression. How many veterans complain about the lack of endgame content? So what happens when a new player rips through the game in 2 weeks? Where's the longevity? I know what I do when I finish a game that fast, I stop playing it and so will a lot of new players. Not everyone joins Warframe to grind in the void endlessly, many of them play to work their way through the game.

 

 

Arguably there is no end game content to really burn through, call sorties end game if you want but I don't consider mobs with higher stats end game material. I'd call actual content in this game the quests, bosses, frames, and weapons. Star chart to me is just as much of a filler as the void is, all there is, is scaling mobs and sometimes new enemies that basically fall to the same tactic of, can I kill it? No? CC it then, till it's dead. This is a brain dead game that doesn't properly reward progress in the first place, it's up to luck 95% of the time.

 

The more I think about it the more I support Excalderp being a starter because new players can basically force their way through the entire game to see how little actual content there is to hold you here. That way they can see whether this game is for them or not, they will either end up enjoying the play style or just become victims to the grind.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Arguably there is no end game content to really burn through, call sorties end game if you want but I don't consider mobs with higher stats end game material. I'd call actual content in this game the quests, bosses, frames, and weapons. Star chart to me is just as much of a filler as the void is, all there is, is scaling mobs and sometimes new enemies that basically fall to the same tactic of, can I kill it? No? CC it then, till it's dead. This is a brain dead game that doesn't properly reward progress in the first place, it's up to luck 95% of the time.

 

The more I think about it the more I support Excalderp being a starter because new players can basically force their way through the entire game to see how little actual content there is to hold you here. That way they can see whether this game is for them or not, they will either end up enjoying the play style or just become victims to the grind.

That's a fair point but from the perspective of a Game designer, is that what you want players to be able to do?

[Thebel]

That's a fair point but from the perspective of a Game designer, is that what you want players to be able to do?

 

Loaded question, personally I want both because nothing is more frustrating to me as a player like a lack of freedom. I want the freedom to decide if these dozen planets with the same missions are worth doing or if I can just go do harder missions where the scaling is BS but a lot more interesting.

[Vicious_Vipa]

excalibro himself is ok but exalted blade (and tonkor) are extremely overpowered

but with Tonkor you actually have to aim.

(if you'd call it like that... )

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Loaded question, personally I want both because nothing is more frustrating to me as a player like a lack of freedom. I want the freedom to decide if these dozen planets with the same missions are worth doing or if I can just go do harder missions where the scaling is BS but a lot more interesting.

Fair enough.

[KriLL3]

I don't agree that frames should be good and bad, they should be side-grades into more specialized roles etc, Excalibur is a pretty good all-rounder which is exactly what a new player should use until they figure out specifically what role(s) they want to fulfill.