Anyone Else Think Excalibur Is Too Strong For A Starter Frame?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Ok so most of us love Excalibur, he's a great frame, capable of solo or team play at a high level. But that's the problem, he's absurdly easy for beginners. Almost every day I see a new thread saying "I'm new and I've been playing a week, have Excalibur to level 30, what's a good EB build? And then we witness the birth of yet another new player who does nothing but hit 4 and spam E for the entirety of their Warframe career, ignoring 90% of the game content and jumping straight into T4 and Sorties at MR4. This doesn't breed good players who understand the game mechanics, it breeds one track-minded players with no adaptation skills and no awareness or game sense.

What does everyone else think? I realise Loki can be considered OP as well but he doesn't have an ability that wrecks high level enemies, although disarming everyone is definitely extremely useful. It is far too easy for a noob to obtain the mods needed to make Excalibur a viable end game frame, perhaps not initially OP but they will be able to survive at least. The argument is of course that Excalibro is the game's poster boy but still..

Edited January 4, 2016 by Zilchy

[Kai_Shiba]

From the Excalibur Codex

 

 

A perfect balance of mobility and offense, Excalibur is the ideal Warframe for new players.

[Cubewano]

every frame is meant to preform on the same level so no frame should be considered "too good for starters"

[(PSN)federally]

Lol dude go play Excalibur with rank one mods on Saturn.

Then come back and tell us how dumb your post was

[Yastin]

The barrier to entry of this game is already miles high, as far as time investment. (Try explaining to a new player how long it will potentially take for them to get/max serration, vitality, redirection...) So you think that Newbies should be given nothing -at all- worthwhile in their kit?

Edited January 4, 2016 by Yastin

[JokerVictor]

It's simple, just replace Excalibur with Limbo as a starter frame.  /s


Short answer to your question:  No.

Long answer:  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Edited January 4, 2016 by JokerVictor

[DeejayPwny]

Excalibur is strong, yes. But his true potential is only there if you can learn to combo his moves properly (which doesn't take MUCH, but it's still something).

 

If anything, the other starters need buffs. We've already heard Volt is slated for some tweaking (I believe they were talking about buffing the Ulti and making his shield have unique interactions with different things, not like the old infinite range beam weapons), and Mag is being talked about for a full rework like Saryn.

[Ibro156]

Yes Excalibur is good frame WITH mods. New players will.mostly likely have cracked (damaged) mods :/ Also Excal ult is mostly based of melee weapon mods. So yes I say Excal is good frame, but good enough for new players :)

[-Pearl-]

All three starter frames have the potential to be absolutely amazing. Mag is end game requirement for a LOT of people, for example.

 

Volt, lol. Volt is the frame I use on two hour long T4 survivals and don't die once because I'm moving too fast to be hit and I'm stun locking everything with my augment.

 

To be honest, I've not been doing well when playing Excaliber as of late. I'm just not finding his 4 satisfying anymore, though his radial execute is pretty nice, I'm just not doing the damage with him.

[Egg_Chen]

Personally I don't think starter frames should be weaker / less capable.

I think they should be useful and easy to get to grips with for newer players who have so much to learn, while still being viable later on.

 

Excal fits that.

 

Edit: Don't forget he is also the "poster boy" of Warframe, just look at your own Avatar, the same one every player gets when they start.

Excal is the first frame, the image of Warframe in many cases, I think it makes sense that new players can pick something they recognise.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Egg_Chen

[Tesseract7777]

Newbies SHOULD have a strong, balanced frame who can handle almost any situation. 

 

Excal fits that perfectly. Excal is the perfect starter frame. Easy enough to learn and get fairly decent with early, and a frame you can mod pretty well even when you are new and don't have much in the way of mods. 

 

I think that on the contrary, the other two starter frames should be stronger options. 

 

From what I know, both Mag and Volt are on the table for some serious tweaks -- as the other two starters we need to make them a more attractive choice, not make Excal a less attractive choice. 

[BlueQuail]

Yeah he wrecks S#&$. I guess people are getting defensive cuz they think they will lead to nerfs. Its also not that hes super strong early game. Its just that Mag and volt suck vs Grineer with their small amount of cc. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Lol dude go play Excalibur with rank one mods on Saturn.

Then come back and tell us how dumb your post was

Maxing FE and Streamline is not expensive, PWR STR is not required. Since I levelled my own Excal doing T2 Survival to 20mins with these 2 mods and a rank 6 Vital plus Rage, all real easy to get, I feel you might be somewhat missing the point.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Fair points I just see new players jumping straight to endgame inside a week and usually Excal is the culprit. I just feel it allows too many players to skip the game content and not enjoy a proper learning curve that will allow them to both enjoy the game more and be a better team mate, which is what the game is mostly about - Synergy.

[Tesseract7777]

Maxing FE and Streamline is not expensive, PWR STR is not required. Since I levelled my own Excal doing T2 Survival to 20mins with these 2 mods and a rank 6 Vital plus Rage, all real easy to get, I feel you might be somewhat missing the point.

 

Or we see your point and disagree.

 

I think that being able to make a frame decent with only a few mods like that is a really good thing for the game! I think one of the things that actually turns off new Warframe players the most, and makes it hard for them to become long term players/veterans and keep the game alive, is just how over the top challenging the beginning of the game progression is for newbies. 

 

It is punishingly hard, but with Excal, it doesn't take a lot of amazing mods to make him decent enough to get a new player by. And he has a well rounded skill set that teaches them a lot of different things about the game. 

 

Why should he be weak just because he's strong? Why is it a bad thing that he can be good for newbies with a handful of mods? 

 

I see what you are driving at, but I don't come to the same conclusions as you do. 

 

Personally I would rather see newbies jump up in skill like that. They will get involved in the game and become permanent (by that I mean long term/regular) players because of it. Because early progression went fast enough and well enough for them to get addicted. 

 

Later things will get harder, and progression will slow down, but I want a newbies originally jump into the game to go fairly quickly. Get them interested and involved right away. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[venon23]

excal is ok for new players
is not ok for mid rank players
dude gets rank 7 and does nothing else runing aroun fewfewfewfwefewfewfewfewfewfew is not hiting anyone but keeps slaming the "e"
come one excal right now is fuking op i belevie when serretion hornedstring and pression point are remove from the game he will be better but even so is too broken

smal fix the problem make the wave from EB a charge atake problem solve

also agree mag and volt get buffed but not like this
go too a sortie press 4 press 2 and give 200k on armored enemys realy this is broken

Edited January 4, 2016 by venon23

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I get what you're saying Tesseract and yes its great they can jump straight in but I don't think they should be able to jump straight into T3 etc within a week, that's skipping far too much content and destroying the learning curve. A matter of opinion of course and you were much more polite than that other fellow I was replying to initially.

The biggest issue is that it doesn't require any work weaponry wise to do this. Building better weaponry is part of the game and just isn't necessary with this frame, it improves it yes but it's not integral to be ready for T2 and 3 etc

[(PSN)Cwellann]

Meh, I think it breeds 4 spam.  But if you start playing without any vet buddies and are trying not to spend any money at all, I can really see the argument for having him.  Also, the only frame I can think of to replace him with as a starter frame is Rhino, and that teaches 4 spam and hurdy derp "what cover? LEEEEROY" style gameplay.  The only thing that really ticks me off is Excal's ON PLUTO.  I started with Mag, my two buddies started with Excal.  There's a pretty vast gulf between Mars and Pluto.  Just saying.  Same goes for Volt.  Should drop off Vor, not be ClanTech.  Heck, Corrupted Vor even acts like a Volt.

 

PS.  No, I am not saying that everyone plays Rhino like that.  I'm just saying it's an incredibly easy trap to fall into.

 

PPS.  I know for a fact Exalted Blade breeds burnout, so there's that too.  Not in everyone, just in 75% of the people I personally know who started with Excal.

 

Edit:  word order and pronouns.

Edited January 4, 2016 by (PS4)Cwellann

[Tesseract7777]

I get what you're saying Tesseract and yes its great they can jump straight in but I don't think they should be able to jump straight into T3 etc within a week, that's skipping far too much content and destroying the learning curve. A matter of opinion of course and you were much more polite than that other fellow I was replying to initially.

The biggest issue is that it doesn't require any work weaponry wise to do this. Building better weaponry is part of the game and just isn't necessary with this frame, it improves it yes but it's not integral to be ready for T2 and 3 etc

Yeah I want to be clear while I may disagree, I do not think you stupid for having a different viewpoint. We just have differing perspectives which I expect in life.

Sometimes I have wondered if it made things too easy for newbies. Then I remember how hard the early game can be

I think your strongest point here is how with excal, you may not worry so much about weapons, and that could actually slow some progression. I feel like that could be solved without weakening excal though, or removing him from start, but I'm not sure how exactly.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Yeh that's the biggest issue is what's the ideal fix? I don't wish to weaken Excal he's a great frame but the trouble is what frame would replace him. Rhino isn't much better as a learning curve tbh so I don't honestly know. But I do feel a frame that supports but requires a weapon would be a good move, maybe Trinity? Still very strong but requires some love to get the job done.

[Tesseract7777]

Remember though with the new Vors Prize Quest, the starter frame needs to have a direct damage ability as their (1). 

 

I believe this was the bigger reason Loki was replaced as a starter -- more than him just being technical to use and learn. 

 

Early on in the beginner quest you have to use your (1) to directly damage enemies several times before you have weapons. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

That makes sense, perhaps they could start with a better gun than the old Mk1 Braton? :DD Maybe a Latron.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Zilchy

[Arenzo4]

every frame is meant to preform on the same level so no frame should be considered "too good for starters"

literally this

[(PSN)robotwars7]

rather than look at Excalibur, why not look at Mag? she needs a buff desperately, and it would then make all 3 starting frames on a similar level.

Edited January 4, 2016 by (PS4)robotwars7

[(PSN)federally]

Maxing FE and Streamline is not expensive, PWR STR is not required. Since I levelled my own Excal doing T2 Survival to 20mins with these 2 mods and a rank 6 Vital plus Rage, all real easy to get, I feel you might be somewhat missing the point.

Maxed FE? Maxed Streamline? Rage?

What are you considering a "new" player? S#&$ I still don't have Fleeting Expertise, and I've never seen Rage drop. I had to trade for mine.

I don't consider a player capable of going on a vault run to get corrupted mods a "new" player.

I also think you're seriously jaded and attempting to make new players lives harder for some reason I don't dare diagnose.