Warframe: A Cover Shooter?

[Avarcaness]

I know Warframe is really built for run-and-gun mechanics, but I'm a huge fan of cover shooters. Not only do they add immersion, but they also have a practical use and are very useful in dangerous situations when you just need to get down.

 

Personally, I feel that cover-shooting mechanics would be great. It would make stealth better, as it would block all your body parts from view. If you're in cover, you could also shimmy across the wall, limiting the amount of visible body parts. It would also be great to be able to fluidly switch positions in combat. For example, if there are two crates several feet away from each other, you could take cover behind one, then roll to the other one quickly. You can currently already to this in game, but it's not as responsive and not as fluid as it could be.

 

The AI can take cover, and it's fairly efficient. So why not us?

 

-Avarcaness. (This post may be expanded on in the future.)

[Probta16]

Not needed for stealth since the enemies are pretty blind.

[Killz4Thrillz]

Press ctrl (default crouch button) and voila! You just ducked behind cover.

[gell]

Cover mechanics are fun in some games, the obvious example being Gears of War, but even other games like GTA IV. However, I don't think it is needed in Warframe. The acrobatics the frames have add to the game, and if you need cover, you can just crouch or peek out from a wall. The only thing the game needs is to allow you to shoot from your left or right side (pressing H only changes the camera, not the side you shoot from, which is always your right side). I'm not sure that feature should be dynamic though, that is, you might have to pick it in a menu (e.g. in TF2 you can swap which side rockets come from, but you must do this before joining a game).

 

If you want cover mechanics, you should post a compelling case for why you want them. You should point out why having actual cover sticking would be a benefit to just crouching behind a wall. I know you said less of your body sticks out, but really I don't buy that. Cover in games, as far as the AI is concerned, is faked anyway; they pretend they can't see you. If you ever played Gears multiplayer, you'll remember that even though you're in cover, anyone could easily headshot you. That's because real players don't magically go blind when you are in cover like the AI does. So what you seem to be asking for is for AI to be blind while you're in cover, and that's doable to an extent without any cover system at all.

 

The game could use some more animation though. In some games, when you walk near a wall, your body turns to align with the wall, effectively shrinking your profile, for sneaking, or just so your shoulder isn't almost clipping with the wall. DE will hopefully add some of that dynamic animation because it would look good without annoying players with a sticky cover system.

Edited June 6, 2013 by gell

[CosyPigeon]

No thanks. I don't need cover snapping screwing up my wall runs and other ninja badassery. Might I suggest ghost recon future soldier for your stealthy immersive cover based appetite?

[shr0ud]

Press ctrl (default crouch button) and voila! You just ducked behind cover.

what's kind of amazing about this is that when you do this, you really duck very low, lower than the low cover. and when you right click to aim, you raise your head just above the low cover.

 

frankly this kind of design is very nice.

[Xylia]

If they ever added Cover Snapping (I wouldn't be against it, IMO), they'd have to make it OPTIONAL.

 

Like, if you stand near a solid object, you have to press a button to snap yourself to it.

 

That way, it wouldn't ruin Parkour and would give you some better ways to aim and still shield your body. Sometimes I wish I could run door-to-door and take a peek before charging into the next room. Especially if I'm doing a stealth mission or something.

[MoonicusMaximus]

Warframe is stuck between wanting to be a Run-and-Gun and being a Tacti-cool Cover Shooter.

 

Certain enemies act like they are in Tacti-cool Cover Shooting games.

 

Other enemies act like they are in Run-and-Gun games.

 

That's probably the reason it's apparently hard for DE to make actual challenging content at the moment; they don't know which content design to follow to appease us.

[MJ12]

I know Warframe is really built for run-and-gun mechanics, but I'm a huge fan of cover shooters. Not only do they add immersion, but they also have a practical use and are very useful in dangerous situations when you just need to get down.

 

Personally, I feel that cover-shooting mechanics would be great. It would make stealth better, as it would block all your body parts from view. If you're in cover, you could also shimmy across the wall, limiting the amount of visible body parts. It would also be great to be able to fluidly switch positions in combat. For example, if there are two crates several feet away from each other, you could take cover behind one, then roll to the other one quickly. You can currently already to this in game, but it's not as responsive and not as fluid as it could be.

 

The AI can take cover, and it's fairly efficient. So why not us?

 

-Avarcaness. (This post may be expanded on in the future.)

 

I agree. This would make the game far better than it already is. But only if when ducked into cover, enemies gained x1000 damage, you did x0.1 damage and could no longer hit weak points, and enemies could see and shoot you through infinite amounts of walls.

 

After that update stays around for about a month, at which point the people who want to turn Warframe into Gears of War have left this game forever, then DE can revert the changes and actually make a game that isn't just another cover shooter instead of repeatedly trying to appeal to the 'this game is too easy because I hide behind a box' crowd.

Edited June 6, 2013 by MJ12

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Please no. Magnetic cover systems are the worst and usually are responsible for more deaths in a game than anything else. If a player is too incompetent to just manually crouch behind a box or something then I don't know what to say to them.

[Kyte]

What part of "Cover Shooter" screams BADASS SPACE NINJA to you, OP?

Did you, like, get hit in the head right where "recognition of tone and design intent" sits?

Edited June 6, 2013 by Kyte

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I disagree with this because first off, it goes completely 180 against the space ninja theme. Secondly, it's handholding which I have a deep hatred for. If you want to re-enact a cover based shooter, all you have to do is remain crouched behind a crate and you're done.

[Vaskadar]

Why are you guys getting upset with the OP? It won't happen. Ever. You shouldn't even have to explain it.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Why are you guys getting upset with the OP? It won't happen. Ever. You shouldn't even have to explain it.

Because a lot of people get offended if you dare compare their precious PC games to the filthy console crowd, like gears of war. PC mustard race and whatnot.

[Kyte]

I'm not so much angry at the suggestion as at the OP's sheer dumb.

[Ghostwork]

I know Warframe is really built for run-and-gun mechanics, but I'm a huge fan of cover shooters. Not only do they add immersion, but they also have a practical use and are very useful in dangerous situations when you just need to get down.

 

Personally, I feel that cover-shooting mechanics would be great. It would make stealth better, as it would block all your body parts from view. If you're in cover, you could also shimmy across the wall, limiting the amount of visible body parts. It would also be great to be able to fluidly switch positions in combat. For example, if there are two crates several feet away from each other, you could take cover behind one, then roll to the other one quickly. You can currently already to this in game, but it's not as responsive and not as fluid as it could be.

 

The AI can take cover, and it's fairly efficient. So why not us?

 

-Avarcaness. (This post may be expanded on in the future.)

 

NO

Edited June 6, 2013 by Ghostwork

[AltusLive]

I feel like I need to point out that given that this game is supposed to be about being a ninja, there's a distinct lack of stealth elements capable. I fully agree that we should have cover mechanics, but I also agree that there should be a button you have to push to activate it. Ninja's were renowned for their stealth and finesse, not their explosions and ADD. I don't know how many time's I've been soloing through high levels with guns I haven't leveled up yet, and thought to myself "Man, I really wish I could just lean around this corner to shoot, so that I can try to pick guys off as I go". Cover based combat doesn't work everywhere in this game (infested would never allow it), but that doesn't mean it would be a bad addition. You people that want to run in screaming like Xena can still go have your fun, but why does that mean that us people that enjoy sneaking, or clinging to walls can't enjoy the same rights?

[MJ12]

I feel like I need to point out that given that this game is supposed to be about being a ninja, there's a distinct lack of stealth elements capable. I fully agree that we should have cover mechanics, but I also agree that there should be a button you have to push to activate it. Ninja's were renowned for their stealth and finesse, not their explosions and ADD. I don't know how many time's I've been soloing through high levels with guns I haven't leveled up yet, and thought to myself "Man, I really wish I could just lean around this corner to shoot, so that I can try to pick guys off as I go". Cover based combat doesn't work everywhere in this game (infested would never allow it), but that doesn't mean it would be a bad addition. You people that want to run in screaming like Xena can still go have your fun, but why does that mean that us people that enjoy sneaking, or clinging to walls can't enjoy the same rights?

 

Sneaking? Okay. That's fine. Stealth is okay as an alternate progression method if it has simple but solid mechanics.

 

"Clinging to walls"? This is not a game about clinging to walls methodically picking enemies off. It's a game with a heavy melee emphasis, fast movement, dodging, blocking bullets, and being a superhuman space ninja in the 'flip out and kill people' sense.

[AltusLive]

Sneaking? Okay. That's fine. Stealth is okay as an alternate progression method if it has simple but solid mechanics.

"Clinging to walls"? This is not a game about clinging to walls methodically picking enemies off. It's a game with a heavy melee emphasis, fast movement, dodging, blocking bullets, and being a superhuman space ninja in the 'flip out and kill people' sense.

So when you're saying "ninja" you're actually meaning "acrobatic terminator", because that clinging to walls stuff is basically the ninja M.O.

EDIT:
Also, why do people keep viewing this as being mutually exclusive? My point was that we can have both gameplay styles without ruining the game! If there's a button required for pushing it, all those that don't want it can simply deselect the hotkey. Edited June 6, 2013 by Ice232

[fatpig84]

If cover based shooter mechanic is to be implemented, i demand the Grineer or Corpus have homing rocket launchers that deal 5k shield and hp damage.

 

And the only way to avoid those is by sliding around, wall running, back flips, super jump, super speed, slash dash, general acrobatics etc

There is already enough cover in this game for boss fights.

General enemies, you don't even need cover much at all ! 

Unless you think hiding behind a cryopod is a good idea for some reason on a defense mission.

[MJ12]

So when you're saying "ninja" you're actually meaning "acrobatic terminator", because that clinging to walls stuff is basically the ninja M.O.

 

Have you... you know, read any of those parody websites about ninjas that nevertheless illuminate exactly what pop-culture ninjas are? Realultimatepower and so on? Can you imagine these guys ( http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm ) sticking to walls instead of flying around stabbing people? No? Exactly.

 

EDIT:

Also, why do people keep viewing this as being mutually exclusive? My point was that we can have both gameplay styles without ruining the game! If there's a button required for pushing it, all those that don't want it can simply deselect the hotkey.

 

Because they actually are mutually exclusive and you can see this even now. What actually happens is the endless legion of cover shooter fans who think playing 'the air is lava' is fun complain endlessly because enemies are balanced for the people who don't and thus they complain that they can 'faceroll everything' and 'the game is too easy' and 'enemies need to deal more damage'. And suddenly everyone who was playing another way starts instantly dying when out of cover and has to play their way because of your design decision. Sometimes, you have to decide what you want to do because you can't have it both ways. This is very much one of those situations.

[AltusLive]

Have you... you know, read any of those parody websites about ninjas that nevertheless illuminate exactly what pop-culture ninjas are? Realultimatepower and so on? Can you imagine these guys ( http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm ) sticking to walls instead of flying around stabbing people? No? Exactly.

 

 

 

 

Because they actually are mutually exclusive and you can see this even now. What actually happens is the endless legion of cover shooter fans who think playing 'the air is lava' is fun complain endlessly because enemies are balanced for the people who don't and thus they complain that they can 'faceroll everything' and 'the game is too easy' and 'enemies need to deal more damage'. And suddenly everyone who was playing another way starts instantly dying when out of cover and has to play their way because of your design decision. Sometimes, you have to decide what you want to do because you can't have it both ways. This is very much one of those situations.

 I'm not saying we should change the enemies or anything of the sort, just the opposite in fact. I understand that the game is currently geared towards run and gun. If people want to complain that the game is too easy they can go to a high level with a level 1 lato for all I care. I'm saying that with all things the same right now adding in a cover mechanic really wouldn't change much. I would rather that DE not cater to the needs of the people complaining the game is too easy, but that doesn't mean that I'd rather they avoid otherwise perfectly feasible game mechanics in an attempt to avoid said complaints. Besides, as I said, anybody that has played solo with a high level map, and a low level gun understands full well that the game isn't easy until you've got all of your mods on.

Also, not sure if quoting the cliche stereotypes of ninjas is really the best method, since they seem to have also included some of the spirituality and respect that was supposed to be hand in hand with ninjutsu (seiza position, fudoshin mind set, ending a fight with one slice of a sword, etc).

Edited June 6, 2013 by Ice232

[trasha]

use search next time, it has been discussed many times

thank God stupid cover system is not part of this good fast-paced shoot'n'slash game

[PaperAlien]

Cover snapping would definitely work as long as it's not an automatic mechanic but rather a "press E to take cover" where E is not the sprint/use/revive/roll/take cover/interact/E/ban player/textchat/jump/reload/melee button.

[Keetsune]

Press ctrl (default crouch button) and voila! You just ducked behind cover.

It doesnt help, enemy still can hit u.