Prevent Bulletjump Abuse

[Loxyen]

Hi there since the last fixes I saw less bj spam then it was in 18.2, but I just meet one that is still using quite likely a macro on bj and he is not the only one. Even without a macro there are still a lot ppl exploiting this.

 

 

My suggestion to handle with that bulletjump macro and bj abuse in general:

You could add a timer/cooldown on bulletjump. Like the players would only be able to do normal a bulletjump every 3 or 5 seconds and until the bj-cooldown runs out they'll just be able to do a bulletjump with half the speed/mobility e.g.

This would force players to use the new 2.0 movement system in its full scope and prevent that some other players get an advantage by using a macro on bulletjump.

 

[rawr1254]

Nvm pvp :3

Edited January 24, 2016 by rawr1254

[Phasedragon]

Bulletjump IS the 2.0 system. There already IS a cooldown on bulletjump in that you can only use it once before hitting the ground. The only reason players use macros in regards to bullet jump is so that they don't have to put their fingers in a pretzel. Of all the things in the game, bullet jump is not one that is abused.

[Rubbertubtub01]

Why would people use macros anyway, it's cheating....

[BoyTitan]

Bullet jump can be spammed with out a macro. Pretty sure I spam bullet jump more than anyone when  I am not running a tank. But I have hold to crouch bound to mouse button 4.

[Loxyen]

Bulletjump IS the 2.0 system. There already IS a cooldown on bulletjump in that you can only use it once before hitting the ground. The only reason players use macros in regards to bullet jump is so that they don't have to put their fingers in a pretzel. Of all the things in the game, bullet jump is not one that is abused.

 

What about the roll and wallrun rework? (or nerfed copter *cough*)

 

There is not really a cooldown. You can perform bulletjump in almost 0° to 90°. If you haven't tested/seen/what ever I'll show you what I mean: 

 

 

And even on walls, the only thing you have to do is wr-bj-wr-bj-wr-bj..... (wr = wallrun)

 

Don't get me wrong I use bj a lot too. But you can't call literally exploit a playstyle...

My suggested time for the cooldown is just an example. It also could be every 2 seconds. For example add a silver mod (like these mobility mods) that reduce it down to 2 seconds. By adding the % of friction. E.G.   Just to prevent an abuse through spam every second.

So you can bj-sprint/slide/roll/shoot-bj anyway if you're frightened about loosing momentum.

This would be a good compromise and reduces the advantage of macros on it.

 

 

 

Why would people use macros anyway, it's cheating....

 

True story...

 

 

 

BoyTitan, on 24 Jan 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Bullet jump can be spammed with out a macro. Pretty sure I spam bullet jump more than anyone when  I am not running a tank. But I have hold to crouch bound to mouse button 4.

 

 

Yup... Thats what I made for coptering the hell out of the ceramic dagger in 1.0 pvp. It is even worse than the old copter, because you can change the direction immediatly without flying your way straight down the road.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Loxyen

[Phasedragon]

What about the roll and wallrun rework? (or nerfed copter *cough*)

 

There is not really a cooldown. You can perform bulletjump in almost 0° to 90°. If you haven't tested/seen/what ever I'll show you what I mean: 

And even on walls, the only thing you have to do is wr-bj-wr-bj-wr-bj..... (wr = wallrun)

 

Don't get me wrong I use bj a lot too. But you can't call literally exploit a playstyle...

My suggested time for the cooldown is just an example. It also could be every 2 seconds. For example add a silver mod like these mobility mods that reduce it down to 2 seconds. By adding the % of friction. E.G.   Just to prevent an abuse through spam every second.

So you can bj-sprint/slide/roll-bj anyway if you're frightened about loosing momentum.

This would be a good compromise and reduces the advantage of macros on it.

 

 

 

 

True story...

 

How is literally any of this an exploit? It's moving as intended and under the power of your own actions. Even then, you can move faster just by running and sliding than you do by bulletjump "spam" as seen in that video.

Edited January 24, 2016 by PhaseShifted

[BoyTitan]

Btw bullet jump is not a exploit its part of the game my comment was misunderstood.  There are players that can dominate with out spamming bullet jump...They are scary. A good bullet jumper can still be killed when they touch the ground. A good player will just rek you.

[Nighttide77]

People who spend too much time bullet jumping often spend less time fighting. They trade offense for defense. With health orb spawns so low being evasive pretty important.

Gimping movement any further after aerial slide momentum was nerfed would lead to more grounded fighting, which would also make Conclave more like other casual PvP shooters. That's not a good thing.

[Loxyen]

How is literally any of this an exploit? It's moving as intended and under the power of your own actions. Even then, you can move faster just by running and sliding than you do by bulletjump "spam" as seen in that video.

 

Sorry for calling it an exploit that lightly. I remain on calling it an abuse then.

 

Not exactly. While all these ehp and ttk balancing in pvp, the sprint speed got reduced. Bulletjump is faster, especially with mods.

Watch this:

 

 

Sliding comes near, but you are limited to the direction. Means you can't really change the direction. If you try it anyway you'll be exposed on the place for a short moment. That moment is enough time to die. And you have to build up your sprint speed to make that slide efficient. (long and fast)  As you can see the slide had ca. an efficient speed of the range that 1 bulletjump did. + you are grounded while sliding in pvp. It is way easier to hit a target in 2D then 3D.

To add you are able change directions with the bulletjump very quick in 3D.

 

My intention is not to ban it or nerf the speed of the bulletjump. It is fine right now. But I think being able to spam it every second without limitations is not really balanced nor casual friendly. If you want to show skill then use the whole amount of actions, which are at your disposal.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Loxyen

[Phasedragon]

The only way you can "spam" bullet jump is by staying on the ground, as your videos show. That leaves you very open and predictable. If you wish to use bullet jump quickly, you could use walls to your advantage, by jumping off them, resetting your bullet jump. However, to do this properly, you have to sacrifice your offense to focus on your defense. Even then, it's not spam and still does take skill to perform.

 

There is no form of abuse, exploitation, macro, hacking, or shenanigans of any sort when it comes to the uses you are describing. This is a perfectly valid (and not even super efficient, mobile, or hard to hit) way of getting around.

Edited January 24, 2016 by PhaseShifted

[Loxyen]

People who spend too much time bullet jumping often spend less time fighting. They trade offense for defense. With health orb spawns so low being evasive pretty important.

Gimping movement any further after aerial slide momentum was nerfed would lead to more grounded fighting, which would also make Conclave more like other casual PvP shooters. That's not a good thing.

 

You forget Bow and Opticore players there.

 

Yup. Those words could come from my mouth.

BUT spamming bj near the ground can't be really called aerial momentum right? A cooldown that lasts every 3 or 2 seconds is not much. You spend that time easily in long range/high jumps. Or doing a bj and aim. But besides the use of a macro and spam is disabled with that short cooldown.

Or maybe change the minimal angle to perform a low bj? What are your offers?

[Thelonious]

Good luck trying to convince the vet community to nerf mobility further.

 

They got used to it after playing for a thousand hours, and expect anyone starting PvP to be able to do the same.

 

"git gud or gtfo"

 

Then they wonder why so few players play PvP.

[Nighttide77]

Bows, Opticor, AOE, snipers...any semi-auto weapon would do well firing between bullet jumps and such. However, those weapons still suffer accuracy due to excessive movement, and the penalties for missing are harsher than that for autos and burst.

It doesn't matter what cool down you put on a mobility tool. A cool down is a nerf no matter the way it's implemented.

My solution to excessive bullet jumpers is the same for any other highly mobile target: AOE. Shotguns can also help. Different weapons for different types of enemies.

[Loxyen]

The only way you can "spam" bullet jump is by staying on the ground, as your videos show. That leaves you very open and predictable. If you wish to use bullet jump quickly, you could use walls to your advantage, by jumping off them, resetting your bullet jump. However, to do this properly, you have to sacrifice your offense to focus on your defense. Even then, it's not spam and still does take skill to perform.

 

There is no form of abuse, exploitation, macro, hacking, or shenanigans of any sort when it comes to the uses you are describing. This is a perfectly valid (and not even super efficient, mobile, or hard to hit) way of getting around.

 

You control the bj by placing your view with the mouse. While running an external program, which repeats the bj continuous, that these guys don't have to care about the movement will give them enough time to aim. If they want to dodge They'll just look up or down or to the side. They don't even have to care about the landing animation. The macro will handle it...

Even if you're sliding to avoid the landing animation you have almost no momentum behind if it is a drop near 90°.

And while the macro commands have lower priority than the own they can easily perform that wallrun-bj or what ever without being ignored by the game. They can focus more on placing the crosshair.

Bouncing around without breakes in your momentum makes you hard to hit and if you don't have to care about the 'how to' you are able to go fully offensive.

Sure if you do that without a macro it will need its time and practice, but it is really that bad compared to the other variants?... why are so many still using it 24/7 anyway? 

I've seen your videos. You use it a lot, but I've seen way worse. People abuse bj believe it or not. A cooldown of 2 or lets go down to 1.5 sec wouldn't affect your play style that much. The only thing you're not able to do is spamming them one behind the other.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Loxyen

[Pythadragon]

What is a bullet jump macro?

 

I mean, pressing crouch + jump at the same time is pretty easy to do. Just saying.

 

Loxyen: "Not exactly. While all these ehp and ttk balancing in pvp, the sprint speed got reduced. Bulletjump is faster, especially with mods."

 

Since when was sprint speed reduced in pvp? It has always been the same as in pve (but who sprints anymore when you can fly?).

 

PS Loxyen could you please copy/paste your text 'as plain text'?

I use the dark color forum scheme and when you do your funny formatting it appears as dark grey text on dark grey text..... Normal text in dark color scheme is white on dark grey.

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by Pythadragon

[Loxyen]

What is a bullet jump macro?

 

I mean, pressing crouch + jump at the same time is pretty easy to do. Just saying.

 

Loxyen: "Not exactly. While all these ehp and ttk balancing in pvp, the sprint speed got reduced. Bulletjump is faster, especially with mods."

 

Since when was sprint speed reduced in pvp? It has always been the same as in pve (but who sprints anymore when you can fly?).

 

PS Loxyen could you please copy/paste your text 'as plain text'?

I use the dark color forum scheme and when you do your funny formatting it appears as dark grey text on dark grey text..... Normal text in dark color scheme is white on dark grey.

 

 

Yea idk but if someone is doing the same jump combo a whole match long or more without any real deviations and without a break it is really suspicious.

Ikr it is easy and the only thing to practice there is to sync your aim to it.

 

Okay so the sprint speed is like normal pve? While all that up and down in mobility etc. it felt a bit slower. Then cross that sentence.

 

Uhm... o.O I did not do anything. O.o

 

but sure here you are:

.

.

.

And while the macro commands have lower priority than the own they can easily perform that wallrun-bj or what ever without being ignored by the game. They can focus more on placing the crosshair.

Bouncing around without breakes in your momentum makes you hard to hit and if you don't have to care about the 'how to' you are able to go fully offensive.

Sure if you do that without a macro it will need its time and practice, but it is really that bad compared to the other variants?... why are so many still using it 24/7 anyway?

I've seen your videos. You use it a lot, but I've seen way worse. People abuse bj believe it or not. A cooldown of 2 or lets go down to 1.5 sec wouldn't affect your play style that much. The only thing you're not able to do is spamming them one behind the other.

 

Better?

[Pythadragon]

@loxyen 

 

Totally better, thanks (I meant just pasting that back into the original post). I had to highlight the text earlier to read it. This is a flaw of the forums. If you copy text from the forum window, it will retain formatting including color rather than copying as plain text.

 

Also it is hilarious to see my screenshot of you quoted in your reply. Inceptionpost.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Pythadragon

[Aggh]

The only thing that makes bullet jump spammers hard to hit is this games terrible p2p hosting.  When you're hosting it's like you're playing a completely different game.

[NNKanell]

macro? the macro will work only on the floor directly..
 

Moving over chaotic, walls and floor, the wall have to to press the space

 

[KingTaro]

You might need to provide a video with the guy you saw bullet jumping non-stop, to the point that he was hard to hit. Try to invite the guy for a private match.

 

Yea idk but if someone is doing the same jump combo a whole match long or more without any real deviations and without a break it is really suspicious.

Ikr it is easy and the only thing to practice there is to sync your aim to it.

He might have been using macro's, but once you've been doing something for a long time, it can come over as macro's.

Have been accused of macro's many times myself for using fast-slides (slide attack) non-stop (in long missions such as survival).

 

[Lord_Noctus]

You might need to provide a video with the guy you saw bullet jumping non-stop, to the point that he was hard to hit. Try to invite the guy for a private match.

 

He might have been using macro's, but once you've been doing something for a long time, it can come over as macro's.

Have been accused of macro's many times myself for using fast-slides (slide attack) non-stop (in long missions such as survival).

 

thats a macro i talked about and noone believed me how effective it is

Edited January 24, 2016 by Lord_Noctus

[KingTaro]

thats a macro i talked about and noone believed me how effective it is

Well, I'm curious to know what it looks like.

Is there a footage of it?

[Loxyen]

macro? the macro will work only on the floor directly..

 

Moving over chaotic, walls and floor, the wall have to to press the space

 

 

Yup I've seen ppl jumping around similar to that the whole matches without any break in pvp. I did not report them yet, because I thought it was like that lag spray bug in bad lobbys, where autorifles got emptied in half or less the time they'll need usual.

 

Isn't there the possibility to set the command timing in macros? Tbh I've no idea, because I never used one, but I already played with some guys using macros (or something similar) in pve. T4 surv for example. A Vauban threw his Vortex every 30min while the player was afk making something to eat..things like that.

So you just have to measure the right timing of a bulletjump that is pleasing, set it in one of these programs and there you go.

[Loxyen]

You might need to provide a video with the guy you saw bullet jumping non-stop, to the point that he was hard to hit. Try to invite the guy for a private match.

 

He might have been using macro's, but once you've been doing something for a long time, it can come over as macro's.

Have been accused of macro's many times myself for using fast-slides (slide attack) non-stop (in long missions such as survival).

 

 

Unfortunately not. :( Like I said above. Thought it was because of the lag in previous matches so I did not bother about them that much.

And that last guy I'm not really sure about was doing 2 bulletjumps and 1 normal jump the whole time. The only breaks in that pattern were aimglides, rolls.. I played him a few times before in random lobbys.

What I recognized was that his play style changed drastically until ca. U18.2. He went from average pro play (I would describe it like that in general) to bulletjump spam. His main mistakes were that he exposed himself too much while aiming, but whith this change he had not to bother about that. To add, his aim improved pretty much. We had a 1v1 lately that made me even more wary. Even after he got me he was still jumping that pattern like breakeless. Only stopped at start to mid of the match for chat others. Or maybe adjusting the macro? There was no reply when I asked him about him using a macro.. after the match he went off immediately. Idk what left behind was just a suspicious impression.

I won't blame him officially, but it would be nice if he notifies me if I'm wrong on him. g-freakin-g then o_O

 

But that won't change anything on the main subject. I already mentioned this idea in another thread before.