Fix Saryn's Rework, Please?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Actually enemies covered in venom bulbs then hit with a miasma, due quite nicely. Her rework isnt bad, just needs sum damage buffs and toxic lash should be replace with something else...i was thinking like an acid armor or sum such.

[EinheriarJudith]

Thanks for the pic.  I'll have to try that.  I need to get my hands on heavy caliber yet.  I'm betting that would make a bit of difference.  But then you'd lose a spot for firestorm.  Switch out for vile acceleration maybe.

status per sec is effected by firerate and status mods. multishot does not effect status per sec. if you remove the firerate mod, you will loose a hefty amount of status chance.

Edited February 17, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Haxwell]

Unless im mistaken, the idea with warframe is to just keep releasing new warframes. Like champions in league of legends, there are ones that are easier to use than others. The difficulty and complex nature of particular frames appeals to some players. If thats not ur bag then its not ur bag. Sucks but its the truth.

[RealPandemonium]

Viral/ Rad Ignis with Firestorm and Sinister Reach and high Status will proc almost every sec,  and most of all: It deal way more damage than Spore itself. Because it's a gun, that can do the same thing Spore skill can do, with way more damage, and no cast time or Mana cost. Isn't that convenient? 

Or we can do that the old way: Molt > Spore on Molt / Enemies > Shoot > Miasma or shoot them to dead. 

 

its complimentary. a saryn that is constantly spreading viral is a strong one. he is using radiation which is great for taking the heat off yourself i use viral heat and viral rad specs(ignis, and embolist with syndicate mod which also procs viral) its psychotic the amount of damage. her frames powers revolve around viral and toxin so its best to stick with the combo she is master at.

It's a given that Saryn will be using Spore, right?  So all relevant enemies (and pretty much all enemies period if using a max range build) will constantly have the Viral status applied to them.  Why have it on your gun?  Why not put Gas to keep Toxin procs on everyone and also add to Spore damage simultaneously?  Or, why not just use the most effective elements, damage-wise?  Because she has Spore to guarantee constant free Viral procs on everything around, why would Saryn ever need to bring a Viral weapon?  It doesn't make any sense to me.  Using Radiation for CC makes sense, but that's hardly a Saryn-specific synergy.  

 

It's also weird to me that someone would suggest a weapon build that is redundant for Saryn, and then talk about the Molt -> Spores -> Miasma combo.  I pretty much never have done that since day 1 of the rework; I only do it in emergencies that require prompt killing without needing a target, or to set up a Miasma before the enemies have reached the area.  The whole idea is to bring a weapon-based Toxin proc source to allow Miasma (and Spores) to deal big damage without wasting energy.  

Edited February 18, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[EinheriarJudith]

It's a given that Saryn will be using Spore, right?  So all relevant enemies (and pretty much all enemies period if using a max range build) will constantly have the Viral status applied to them.  Why have it on your gun?  Why not put Gas to keep Toxin procs on everyone and also add to Spore damage simultaneously?  Or, why not just use the most effective elements, damage-wise?  Because she has Spore to guarantee constant free Viral procs on everything around, why would Saryn ever need to bring a Viral weapon?  It doesn't make any sense to me.  Using Radiation for CC makes sense, but that's hardly a Saryn-specific synergy.  

 

It's also weird to me that someone would suggest a weapon build that is redundant for Saryn, and then talk about the Molt -> Spores -> Miasma combo.  I pretty much never have done that since day 1 of the rework; I only do it in emergencies that require prompt killing without needing a target, or to set up a Miasma before the enemies have reached the area.  The whole idea is to bring a weapon-based Toxin proc source to allow Miasma (and Spores) to deal big damage without wasting energy.  

the only combo left with the use of radiation on a fire based weapon is viral or cold or heat. Radiation > Gas in terms of damage and utility. if it was a radiation weapon i would go for the rad gas combo. staticor, nukor, detron are good examples of rad base weapons that could make use of rad gas but if i had to trade rad in for gas id rather just use toxic lash.

[SairentoDangan]

It's a given that Saryn will be using Spore, right?  So all relevant enemies (and pretty much all enemies period if using a max range build) will constantly have the Viral status applied to them.  Why have it on your gun?  Why not put Gas to keep Toxin procs on everyone and also add to Spore damage simultaneously?  Or, why not just use the most effective elements, damage-wise?  Because she has Spore to guarantee constant free Viral procs on everything around, why would Saryn ever need to bring a Viral weapon?  It doesn't make any sense to me.  Using Radiation for CC makes sense, but that's hardly a Saryn-specific synergy.  

 

It's also weird to me that someone would suggest a weapon build that is redundant for Saryn, and then talk about the Molt -> Spores -> Miasma combo.  I pretty much never have done that since day 1 of the rework; I only do it in emergencies that require prompt killing without needing a target, or to set up a Miasma before the enemies have reached the area.  The whole idea is to bring a weapon-based Toxin proc source to allow Miasma (and Spores) to deal big damage without wasting energy.  

I personally use all the kits I can use to maximize the effectiveness of putting down things. In this case it's Viral AOE weapon combine with Saryn. I can use another OP gun to kill off ppl and use Saryn for some utilities/ survival matter. But what's the fun in gunning down ppl while your Warframe is just a shell firing a gun? Also spamming skill is nice, but the effectiveness of killing things is way less than combine both.

And this is just MY way of building Saryn using her EVERYTHING and I want to share it. Ofcoz in your opinion it would be nicer to spread Viral via Spore, but in my way of think, the spreading from my Viral Ignis is way more than Spore. OR just simply Spore then Viral Ignis for both of the damage/ spread.

Yes GAS is nice, but then you lose the other combination element, what will you put in your gun for combo? Blast? or Magnetic? Or just go full Gas damage and spread Viral with Spore?

This set up with Gas/ Blast/ Mac I personally use for Corpus Mission, but that's another case...

Edited February 18, 2016 by SairentoDangan

[EinheriarJudith]

I personally use all the kits I can use to maximize the effectiveness of putting down things. In this case it's Viral AOE weapon combine with Saryn. I can use another OP gun to kill off ppl and use Saryn for some utilities/ survival matter. But what's the fun in gunning down ppl while your Warframe is just a shell firing a gun? Also spamming skill is nice, but the effectiveness of killing things is way less than combine both.

And this is just MY way of building Saryn using her EVERYTHING and I want to share it. Ofcoz in your opinion it would be nicer to spread Viral via Spore, but in my way of think, the spreading from my Viral Ignis is way more than Spore. OR just simply Spore then Viral Ignis for both of the damage/ spread.

Yes GAS is nice, but then you lose the other combination element, what will you put in your gun for combo? Blast? or Magnetic? Or just go full Gas damage and spread Viral with Spore?

This set up with Gas/ Blast/ Mac I personally use for Corpus Mission, but that's another case...

My thoughts exactly. btw RP this is what i was talking about earlier about having my cake and eating it to ^_^

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Fortune? How are you playing her exactly? I personally set spores, spread them with toxic lash (and gain viral status in the process ~ splendid ability effect paired with slash status weapons, next to the obvious poisoning), activate her ult in occasion and use the augumented decoy to regenerate health... i'm taking a guess... decoy+spore+miasama combo that kinda simulates the old nuke?...she moved away from that and became a splendit status/melee frame ...deal with it.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Fortune? How are you playing her exactly? I personally set spores, spread them with toxic lash (and gain viral status in the process ~ splendid ability effect paired with slash status weapons, next to the obvious poisoning), activate her ult in occasion and use the augumented decoy to regenerate health... i'm taking a guess... decoy+spore+miasama combo that kinda simulates the old nuke?...she moved away from that and became a splendit status/melee frame ...deal with it.

She is so splendid that i while farming new stuff whole day i was running into exactly zero saryn, and there was even limbos and banshees. If you make a good rework-you will see players start to play the frame, if its a bad\underwhelming rework-you will see that no1 plays her. Atleast pre-nerf she was used for low-lvl map cleaning, now for nothing. Deal with it.

[RealPandemonium]

the only combo left with the use of radiation on a fire based weapon is viral or cold or heat. Radiation > Gas in terms of damage and utility. if it was a radiation weapon i would go for the rad gas combo. staticor, nukor, detron are good examples of rad base weapons that could make use of rad gas but if i had to trade rad in for gas id rather just use toxic lash.

You could also use straight Toxin along with Radiation.  I still don't see how Radiation has any special synergy with Saryn in particular.

 

Fortune? How are you playing her exactly? I personally set spores, spread them with toxic lash (and gain viral status in the process ~ splendid ability effect paired with slash status weapons, next to the obvious poisoning), activate her ult in occasion and use the augumented decoy to regenerate health... i'm taking a guess... decoy+spore+miasama combo that kinda simulates the old nuke?...she moved away from that and became a splendit status/melee frame ...deal with it.

Old nuke can be emulated readily using a max range build.  Spore one enemy, hit it with a Toxin status weapon (this is where the Gas Ignis comes in handy, but any elemental status weapon (continuous weapons are convenient for this; try Gas Synoid Gammacore for huge Toxin procs to spread with Spore) can be used to apply Toxin.  Toxin only needs to apply once, and a spore popped on the target for both statuses to spread to the whole tile indefinitely.  Once that's in motion, you can just spam 4 every four seconds (or as needed to hit new enemies or reapply stagger to MOAs when necessary.)

 

She is so splendid that i while farming new stuff whole day i was running into exactly zero saryn, and there was even limbos and banshees. If you make a good rework-you will see players start to play the frame, if its a bad\underwhelming rework-you will see that no1 plays her. Atleast pre-nerf she was used for low-lvl map cleaning, now for nothing. Deal with it.

"I don't see Saryns anymore" is not a valid claim in this discussion.  You have no evidence to suggest that Saryn is "useless" or that it was a nerf.  Most people just cargo cult in this game; they don't necessarily know what's good, but follow trends that seem to get results for others.  Players who are actually savvy about game mechanics (like the ones who were 4spamming with Saryn literally years before it became popular and Saryn became commonly used) will use frames that are unpopular because they know how to mod and understand what those frames are capable of, never mind what the meta happens to be at the time.  Your claim is a self-fulfilling prophecy; slinging mud at unpopular options serves to keep them unpopular in a largely ignorant community that reads more slander than fact.   

Edited February 18, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

She is so splendid that i while farming new stuff whole day i was running into exactly zero saryn, and there was even limbos and banshees. If you make a good rework-you will see players start to play the frame, if its a bad\underwhelming rework-you will see that no1 plays her. Atleast pre-nerf she was used for low-lvl map cleaning, now for nothing. Deal with it.

With this current community and quantity as well as missing access to information? How many people are there even that have a full understanding of status and know how to appreciate it? OP is DEFINITLY trying to play her as a nuke frame, he as well as 90% of the people that decidet to scrapp her...

Take the new melee mods into consideration and she is among the strongest frames as it stands. People just dropp her trying to play her as something she no longer is.

Play her propperly and you get amazing results. Period.

[----Fenrir----]

 

"I don't see Saryns anymore" is not a valid claim in this discussion. 

 

It is. Because it reflects what the majority of players think, sometimes even without being aware of it. Almost no one plays her anymore? That means almost no one considers her useful anymore or worth taking over whatever other frame they play instead.

 

And let's be serious here, wtf is supposed to be her role? What is she good for?

 

- not a nuker anymore

- not a melee frame

- not a support frame since she brings almost nothing useful to the table

 

The only thing she still does is buffing team damage by de-buffing enemies with viral procs. Which takes both more effort and energy than either Banshe or Rhino and completely lacks the added utility/CC of Nova's Molecular Prime.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

It is. Because it reflects what the majority of players think, sometimes even without being aware of it. Almost no one plays her anymore? That means almost no one considers her useful anymore or worth taking over whatever other frame they play instead.

And let's be serious here, wtf is supposed to be her role? What is she good for?

- not a nuker anymore

- not a melee frame

- not a support frame since she brings almost nothing useful to the table

The only thing she still does is buffing team damage by de-buffing enemies with viral procs. Which takes both more effort and energy than either Banshe or Rhino and completely lacks the added utility/CC of Nova's Molecular Prime.

How could anyone even consider a frame that adds toxic proccs (with doubled damage to all of your proccs, including slash which shares this base... 66% additional damage as finisher) that scale of your melee damage and halves health per hit a melee frame right? Especially if you have frames like wukong (who has QT as ability) and valkyr (who is unable to use rage) as alternatives... Edited February 18, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[EinheriarJudith]

You could also use straight Toxin along with Radiation.  I still don't see how Radiation has any special synergy with Saryn in particular.

didn't see that nice catch. radiation is for utility it removes auras and confuses enemies.

[----Fenrir----]

How could anyone even consider a frame that adds toxic proccs (with doubled damage to all of your proccs, including slash which shares this base... 66% additional damage as finisher) that scale of your melee damage and halved health per hit a melee frame right? Especially if you have frames like wukong who has QT as ability and valkyr who is unable to use rage as alternatives...

 

Useless, because by the time just hitting them with a normal melee weapon isn't effective enough anymore, melee time is over for Saryn anyway because she has neither damage mitigation nor CC and can't stay alive at melee range without a babysitter.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[-CM-Hekovashi]

How could anyone even consider a frame that adds toxic proccs (with doubled damage to all of your proccs, including slash which shares this base... 66% additional damage as finisher) that scale of your melee damage and halves health per hit a melee frame right? Especially if you have frames like wukong (who has QT as ability) and valkyr (who is unable to use rage) as alternatives...

For melee you need a CC or tanky abilities, melee is strong now but you need not to only deal damage but also stuff to survive. If for example when depleting molt you give damage reduction or something and if miasma can be able to stunlock for long periods if time then yes, you can consider her as melee, bit it doesn't.

As for debuff frame-i'd rather take a nova, she not only make enemies receive x2 damage, but also slow them by 75%. Saryn doesn't have a niche that hasn't already be filled with frames that do same job but much better

Edited February 18, 2016 by Hekovashi

[Exodess]

For melee you need a CC or tanky abilities, melee is strong now but you need not to only deal damage but also stuff to survive. If for example when depleting molt you give damage reduction or something and if miasma can be able to stunlock for long periods if time then yes, you can consider her as melee, bit it doesn't.

As for debuff frame-i'd rather take a nova, she not only make enemies receive x2 damage, but also slow them by 75%. Saryn doesn't have a niche that hasn't already be filled with frames that do same job but much better

 

So much this.

[RealPandemonium]

It is. Because it reflects what the majority of players think, sometimes even without being aware of it. Almost no one plays her anymore? That means almost no one considers her useful anymore or worth taking over whatever other frame they play instead.

 

And let's be serious here, wtf is supposed to be her role? What is she good for?

 

- not a nuker anymore

- not a melee frame

- not a support frame since she brings almost nothing useful to the table

 

The only thing she still does is buffing team damage by de-buffing enemies with viral procs. Which takes both more effort and energy than either Banshe or Rhino and completely lacks the added utility/CC of Nova's Molecular Prime.

Most players have a minimal (if any) understanding of game mechanics; they use whatever they see others using, or whatever makes them feel good to use or validates their own (often spurious) opinions.

 

Saryn still has good direct ability damage.  Synergized new Miasma does around 7% less total damage than the old Miasma, but deals around 87% more damage when you consider the constant free Viral procs that Saryn can now use alongside her 4.  Spores can also deal solid damage when stacking strong Toxin procs.  

 

Melee against level 70+ enemies is not really supported by WF's current game design.  Some kind of survivability bandaid is necessary to stay alive in melee at those levels, though that can also apply much of non-melee gameplay as well. Lifestrike + Rage + QT + good blocking discipline with Toxic Lash buff does go pretty far, though.  It's just kind of moot when Chroma/Trinity/Valkyr/Mesa/Loki/etc can just go full retard with their damage reduction/invincibility bandaids.  When it comes to not cheating the system with exploitable powers, Saryn is the next best thing in melee.  

 

Saryn's free, constant Viral procs on the whole tile are certainly welcome and stack with MPrime and other damage amplification with devastating results.  Saryn also has hard CC on Miasma and aggro redirection on Molt (though DE should work on making Molt function as intended.)  This is all on top of the direct damage she can deal.  It's easy to make a frame look like S#&$ on paper when comparing to Nova, who has a million-damage nuke and a map-wide debuff field with 3 separate effects in one.  It's pretty clear which one is the outlier.  At least Saryn has some hard CC, though.

 

Saryn's Viral procs take no effort to maintain, so long as you use a range-heavy build.  Cast 1, pop a spore with a toxin proc weapon, and the whole tile will get both Toxin and Viral procs indefinitely, halving HP, priming enemies for full-strength Miasma, and dealing supplemental damage (formidable damage, especially to Corpus, when using a top-end Toxin proc source like Synoid Gammacore.)

   

So, in what way was the rework a nerf, besides the loss of 13% EHP?  

Edited February 18, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Scytze]

I swear reason why people keep whining about rework is fact that people still prefer playstyle that  we others call camping, aka on stand on top of box and don't move until mission is done.

[THND3RZ]

I swear reason why people keep whining about rework is fact that people still prefer playstyle that  we others call camping, aka on stand on top of box and don't move until mission is done.

they want easy mode.TOO easy mode.

[YasaiTsume]

Why use a Viral Ignis?  People keep posting this but I'm still not seeing the synergy.  Spores inflict Viral pretty much for free, and indefinitely in a large AOE.  Is Viral used because it is the complement to Radiation?  Why not just go full Radiation (or add some Toxin for supplementary Toxin procs without energy use or weapon switch?)

I think Viral has some damage bonus against Flesh health, but they really should just go with Corro Blast or Rad Toxin

[RealPandemonium]

I think Viral has some damage bonus against Flesh health, but they really should just go with Corro Blast or Rad Toxin

I was thinking that too, but that bonus does not have armor-ignore, and thus falls off in effectiveness pretty quickly even on light-medium units after the 30s.  It's really hard to have a design discussion for this game when you can't know if the other parties are even aware of how modding and the damage system work.  

[-CM-Hekovashi]

I swear reason why people keep whining about rework is fact that people still prefer playstyle that  we others call camping, aka on stand on top of box and don't move until mission is done.

I love how when you pointing that there other frames that do same stuff but better and explain why, dudes who have nothing to say just point on you and-"ha! you just a Draco farmer!".Just love how pathetic is it, but also it makes me sad how often player use that dumb excuse when they have nothing to say to defend something. So you want a cool AOE that actualy deal fair amount of damage, and it's a ult that cost 100 energy? DRACO farmer boooo! Tasty

[Volinus7]

IMO

In this game Nuke=/=Damage dealer

Nuke means AOE

More enemies = More damage

DPS drops against armor

Equinox Ember Nova for example they can grind low lvl enemies meat so fast but has less effect on high lvl without CP

Damage dealer means it can ignore negate or reduce the effect of armor effeciently since armor is an exponential factor

Seeking shuriken and Sonic fracture

Blind melee

Even at lvl100 or 150 their dmg potential doesnt drop significantly

I have 3 problems with saryn

1.Spore toxin stack should be exponential when there're more than one enemy to bounce around

Even on one enemy the stacking on each pop shouldnt be linear.

2.Miasma should diectly reduce armor or at least proc corrosive fast enough or it's just a low lvl meat grinder.

3.The stun animation time from miasma should be longer flat value that doesnt reduce on each cast and take highest priority(Doesnt get overriden by other animation or stun)

Animation priority is a long time problem in warframe ember mesa and saryn really suffer from it.

Ember accelerant stun overrides knockback of fireblast but you need it to amplify fire dmg it's really funny and unrefined.

Mesa stun from shooting gallery overrides melee finisher prompt from melee combo.

Impact shorter stun can somehow override some longer stun.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Volinus7

[Scytze]

I love how when you pointing that there other frames that do same stuff but better and explain why, dudes who have nothing to say just point on you and-"ha! you just a Draco farmer!".Just love how pathetic is it, but also it makes me sad how often player use that dumb excuse when they have nothing to say to defend something. So you want a cool AOE that actualy deal fair amount of damage, and it's a ult that cost 100 energy? DRACO farmer boooo! Tasty

I never mentioned Draco, Camping happens everywhere. Also i have no problem with miasma damage or energy costs.

But now when you mentioned it, you seem to have problem with it and with people who dislike Draco.

I barely wanted to say what i had in mind and not write wall full of text, now go quote someone else honey.