Why do you want tenno's Killed?

[(XBOX)MrGorealler]

I have read some post about people wanting nerfs, buffs, or reworks to warframes and in some cases it happend. Lets take a look at this. We all know about the nuke Saryn now it does not work at all. Her first 3 abilities are better but still the same a slightly higher damage rate but now she aint fun nor does she do damage. Mesa was cool but her first 3 abilities were beefed up to but do the samething used rarely. The Peace Maker is what made her now its gone. Now that's just 2 frames that I know of since I started playing. Not counting greedy pull Mag. Seems to me that people hate other players or frames that put in work. I really want the people who take time out to complane to really think about what they have done. You can set game play to invite only and play how you want with the characters you want. Why get our warframes killed? I like being able to solo 60 in t4 matches and solo sorties. I like going with a team and staying to 120+. To do that you need frames that do work. My game play style is run and gun, get the most kills. I like assault riffles but you don't hear me trying to get other weapons killed. Please lets really talk about this. Why kill warframes?

[DeMonkey]

Another metacomplaint thread. 

Do you guys never get bored by your lack of objectivity? Every nerf offends you regardless of whether it actually makes the game better or not.

Learn to see things objectively before you try and take part in a rational discussion, otherwise there's no point in you taking part.

[(XBOX)MrGorealler]

The point you make is not about warframes then its the dum enemies you fight right? Please tell me what you saying? Cause the objectives of the game are set so please lets talk since you say you have a point.

 

[(XBOX)MrGorealler]

To add How did those make the game better and for who? Does the people who think like you think about others that feel the changes hurt?

 

[MarcusGraves]

We play a game where each frame has access to four powers, however the end result is that about 90% of the frames only use two powers or even just one and neglect the rest of their kit.

Both Mesa and Sayrn were nothing more than 4 bots, do people really need an explanation as to why a game with one of it's main selling points being each warframe having their own set of special abilities but only actually needing to use one power and ignore the other 75% of their powers the majority of the time is a problem?

 

58 minutes ago, (XB1)MrGorealler said:

To add How did those make the game better and for who? Does the people who think like you think about others that feel the changes hurt?

Don't blame the playerbase for wanting more engaging and fun game play than merely pressing the 4 key over and over because this game very much has the potential to go past that. The problem is DE blows at frame balancing and always have which is why topic's like this pop up with people being misguided on what the actual problem is. You'll see me rag on DE's balancing in the majority of my posts concerning frame balance merely because it's true and has been since the beginning of the game.

-First and foremost, changes are incredibly slow

-Many abilities are just complete clunkers

-Many frames are stuck in old design philosophies and have overprice abilities for what they do or are just lacking

-Most power augment mods completely suck and are not worth a wasting a slot (really should have a slot specifically for power aug mods like we have the extra one now for exilus mods, amazed DE hasn't cashed in on this plat goldmine...yet)

-A lot of power augments are little things that really could of just been a part of the frame itself or things players have asked for in the past and instead DE slaps them on a mod and expect us to think it's worth it because they assume our heads are merely empty jars with nothing in them.

Edited March 7, 2016 by MarcusGraves

[IX-44]

In the words of the great Vay Hek...

I knew this day would come. I prepared, changed myself. I made sacrifices! Tenno... are you ready for a SACRIFICE!?

[IX-44]

In the words of the great Vay Hek...

I knew this day would come. I prepared, changed myself. I made sacrifices! Tenno... are you ready for a SACRIFICE!?

[phoenix1992]

Please do not overspam threads, be polite and wait for your turn, otherwise it is not dialogue. It is mono.

Some things must be nerfed. And while I do agree, to many people cry for nerf guns,  but the game is not all about "i want to solo".  You can totally solo. Just not with any build. There is also the fact, that players do what players want, did someone deny you?

[phoenix1992]

Please do not overspam threads, be polite and wait for your turn, otherwise it is not dialogue. It is mono.

Some things must be nerfed. And while I do agree, to many people cry for nerf guns,  but the game is not all about "i want to solo".  You can totally solo. Just not with any build. There is also the fact, that players do what players want, did someone deny you?

[AKKILLA]

I found a way to make Miasma Nuke again,No Im not showing My build everytime i share it a Nerf Thread appears :(

[Kletse]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Another metacomplaint thread. 

Do you guys never get bored by your lack of objectivity? Every nerf offends you regardless of whether it actually makes the game better or not.

Learn to see things objectively before you try and take part in a rational discussion, otherwise there's no point in you taking part.

Too many people cry for nerfs and those who do that, aren't objective either. I loved mesa the way she was. Never seen an objective argument why she had to be nerfed. Same counts for mag and greedy pull. Although it wasn't engaging it sure was relaxed farming.. but again, no objective argument why they got nerfed. Unless you coun't boring and annoying as objective arguments..

Saryn on the other hand didn't get a nerf. She's fantastic imo.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, Kletse said:

Too many people cry for nerfs and those who do that, aren't objective either. I loved mesa the way she was. Never seen an objective argument why she had to be nerfed.

--

Unless you coun't boring and annoying as objective arguments..

I'm sure you loved Aimbot Mesa. Is the argument where she was completely degenerate by virtue of making the game play itself as far as the Mesa player was concerned and removing the agency of any other teammates who wanted to kill things objective enough for you?

 

New Peacemaker is far more interesting, but the drain is just too high for the immobility suffered, compared to things like Exalted Blade.

[DeMonkey]

10 minutes ago, Kletse said:

Too many people cry for nerfs and those who do that, aren't objective either. I loved mesa the way she was. Never seen an objective argument why she had to be nerfed. Same counts for mag and greedy pull. Although it wasn't engaging it sure was relaxed farming.. but again, no objective argument why they got nerfed. Unless you coun't boring and annoying as objective arguments..

Because they promoted a style of gameplay that DE doesn't want to pursue. 

Because they directly reduced the amount of fun other Tenno's could have.

Because combined you were being given rewards that DE doesn't feel you have earned by pressing 2 buttons.

Those argument's were pretty common.

I'd also disagree with your statement that it was a nerf to Peacemaker. It can now do over 4x the damage we used to be able to do with it, yes it's no longer a 360 aimbot but it's far more deadly now.

[Insizer]

4 hours ago, (XB1)MrGorealler said:

I have read some post about people wanting nerfs, buffs, or reworks to warframes and in some cases it happend. Lets take a look at this. We all know about the nuke Saryn now it does not work at all. Her first 3 abilities are better but still the same a slightly higher damage rate but now she aint fun nor does she do damage. Mesa was cool but her first 3 abilities were beefed up to but do the samething used rarely. The Peace Maker is what made her now its gone. Now that's just 2 frames that I know of since I started playing. Not counting greedy pull Mag. Seems to me that people hate other players or frames that put in work. I really want the people who take time out to complane to really think about what they have done. You can set game play to invite only and play how you want with the characters you want. Why get our warframes killed? I like being able to solo 60 in t4 matches and solo sorties. I like going with a team and staying to 120+. To do that you need frames that do work. My game play style is run and gun, get the most kills. I like assault riffles but you don't hear me trying to get other weapons killed. Please lets really talk about this. Why kill warframes?

There is so much wrong in your post.

1.) How was nuke Saryn fun to use? How was Turret Mesa fun? You did literally nothing at all and would get 95% of all kills and damage. Just keep in mind that "to each their own" goes both ways.

2.)

Quote

Seems to me that people hate other players or frames that put in work.

Nobody has an issue with effective frames or effective players, nobody has an issue with "put[ting] in work". On the contrary, people hate it when others can float by through high levels without doing work, without any effort. That is why people hate press 4 to win, and support the very changes which you say ruin a frames effectiveness on the difficulties you mention.

3.)

Quote

Mesa was cool but her first 3 abilities were beefed up to but do the samething used rarely

I can't understand what you are trying to communicate here. However, I fail to see how damage reduction would be rarely used. I myself frequently use Mesa and always have Shatter Shield and Shooting Gallery active.

4.)

Quote

You can set game play to invite only and play how you want with the characters you want.

Quote

I like being able to solo 60 in t4 matches and solo sorties. I like going with a team and staying to 120+.

If you are not lying then you are playing difficulties where enemy scaling has more than completely broken down (ie: it shouldn't exist to begin with) and you expect that everyone to adapt to the statistically irrelevant few like yourself. Just how inflated is your sense of self-importance? What is the limit of your unreasonableness?

5.)

Quote

I like being able to solo 60 in t4 matches and solo sorties. I like going with a team and staying to 120+. To do that you need frames that do work. My game play style is run and gun, get the most kills.

No, YOU need frames that "work", "work" for a play-style nonsensical for difficulties that shouldn't exist in the first place. I can only speculate as to how you play, but if you are not playing tactically at those levels then you are an idiot, and you are even more of an idiot if you expect to go Leroy Jenkins through that difficultly and win. Please tell me that you aren't like this.

6.) You need to understand that this is a videogame where there are people other than you playing. Everyone but a handful few hated being on the same team as press-4-to-win'ers. I am pretty chill with things. I've never had an issue with Nova since she came out despite the lynch mob mentality towards Molecular Prime at the time. However Nuke Saryns and Turret Mesas always annoyed me... Look, there are many who cry for nerfs to whatever upsets them, but some times the complaints are valid. The player-base as a whole hate things that make the game too easy, anything that ruins the gaming experience. DE also hates brainless gameplay and things that remove all difficultly from the game. Initial rustling aside, people do think things through as does the dev team.

 

I'm sorry for my tone, I tend to fly off a bit when typing out long rebuttals. But you are just being too unreasonable by expecting others to just accept game breaking mechanics that only become reasonable on difficulties where the game itself breaks. Now whether the changes could have been better... that is a different story. There have been active reasonable Saryn re-rework threads for months, and Mesa needs a small look at imo. 

[Kletse]

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

I'm sure you loved Aimbot Mesa. Is the argument where she was completely degenerate by virtue of making the game play itself as far as the Mesa player was concerned and removing the agency of any other teammates who wanted to kill things objective enough for you?

 

New Peacemaker is far more interesting, but the drain is just too high for the immobility suffered, compared to things like Exalted Blade.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Because they promoted a style of gameplay that DE doesn't want to pursue. 

Because they directly reduced the amount of fun other Tenno's could have.

Because combined you were being given rewards that DE doesn't feel you have earned by pressing 2 buttons.

Those argument's were pretty common.

I'd also disagree with your statement that it was a nerf to Peacemaker. It can now do over 4x the damage we used to be able to do with it, yes it's no longer a 360 aimbot but it's far more deadly now.

No it's not objective enough for me and a lot of others. I didn't really love mesa, but she was pretty conveniënt in defence. Sure i like to "earn" the reward, but I have a different idea of what earning is. Doing a t4d for example and getting cores on C rotation or a forma for the #"put number here" time. No matter how awesome you play.

The effort you put in doesn't change the drops. That's what it is to me. If i have to choose to do a defence over and over again with a lot of effort and getting nothing.. or relax and get nothing either.. i choose the last.

Sure peacemaker is stronger but in the farming way, it got nerfed big. And I remember DE stated they wanted to reduce the grind... but they did the exact opposite.

Anyway.this is an endless discussion but this is how i think about it. I'm sry i used the word "cry" for nerves because that is forcing a negative energy around it.

[Insizer]

3 minutes ago, Kletse said:

No it's not objective enough for me and a lot of others. I didn't really love mesa, but she was pretty conveniënt in defence. Sure i like to "earn" the reward, but I have a different idea of what earning is. Doing a t4d for example and getting cores on C rotation or a forma for the #"put number here" time. No matter how awesome you play.

The effort you put in doesn't change the drops. That's what it is to me. If i have to choose to do a defence over and over again with a lot of effort and getting nothing.. or relax and get nothing either.. i choose the last.

Sure peacemaker is stronger but in the farming way, it got nerfed big. And I remember DE stated they wanted to reduce the grind... but they did the exact opposite.

Anyway.this is an endless discussion but this is how i think about it. I'm sry i used the word "cry" for nerves because that is forcing a negative energy around it.

You are thinking very objectively, very utilitarian. There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but mind that others are not necessarily like that. The grind sucks because it is anti-climactic, boring, and un-rewarding. Some people want gameplay that is more engaging than holding a button and hate it when they are unable to do anything because of a Turret Mesa.

[TheLexiConArtist]

12 minutes ago, Kletse said:

No it's not objective enough for me and a lot of others. I didn't really love mesa, but she was pretty conveniënt in defence. Sure i like to "earn" the reward, but I have a different idea of what earning is. Doing a t4d for example and getting cores on C rotation or a forma for the #"put number here" time. No matter how awesome you play.

The effort you put in doesn't change the drops. That's what it is to me. If i have to choose to do a defence over and over again with a lot of effort and getting nothing.. or relax and get nothing either.. i choose the last.

Sure peacemaker is stronger but in the farming way, it got nerfed big. And I remember DE stated they wanted to reduce the grind... but they did the exact opposite.

Anyway.this is an endless discussion but this is how i think about it. I'm sry i used the word "cry" for nerves because that is forcing a negative energy around it.

See what Insizer said, and raise the fact that games exist to be played. Multiplayer games exist to be played by multiple players.

 

There is literally no possible argument against the fact that mechanics that stop players from playing, especially involuntary cases like for everyone around the old Mesa, is not an acceptable mechanic and should be altered.

But then, that's kind of the definition of objectivity, isn't it.

[Kletse]

39 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

See what Insizer said, and raise the fact that games exist to be played. Multiplayer games exist to be played by multiple players.

 

There is literally no possible argument against the fact that mechanics that stop players from playing, especially involuntary cases like for everyone around the old Mesa, is not an acceptable mechanic and should be altered.

But then, that's kind of the definition of objectivity, isn't it.

I don't know. Unless we were in a farming session with a solid squad,  i restricted myself using peacemaker only when nessecary. So we could play as a team.. because I am a teamplayer.. but yeah, not everyone is like that and i completely see your point in this... Just doesn't change the fact i didn't like the nerf at all.

And there's no such thing as very objective.. it's objective or it isn't. So people can't accuse someone for not being objective while they aren't either.

I think i could say this in an objective way: the nerfes on mesa and gp were for the better of the gameplay, but worsened for the farming.  But then again... there will be people that loved the aimbot mesa more then he is now. So it's very difficult to stay objective lol.

[[DE]Danielle]

Please search for existing threads on the topic you are looking to discuss. The more you know about existing metacomplaints on the Forums, the more you can prepare a more fleshed out topic that avoids these overly generalized complaints. 

Locking thread. 

[(XBOX)MrGorealler]

For some reason I couldn't respond on my last thread so I will do so on here. I play with a team all the time and we understand how to work with all the frames. I just don't like the idea of low damage when enemies take 1'000 bullets and they only do 10 damage. I don't just play Spam one power to win I use the ones that cater to my gamplay style. I use all of mesa abilities but the one that killed the croud for croud control doen't do that any more. My whole idea of starting this conversation in this thread is to talk about real issues concerning why the powers where nerfed. Example you say to balance the frames but the real issue again is the dum masses of bullet sponges coming at you, One of you guys said one button to win if that's the case you helped that person to do it think about it mesa was still and could still take damage. The team with them had to kill a small amount of big enemies to let them live they needed energy plates. Now for real I don't care about that stuff for real because I had fun with my squad then and still do now. When facing enemies spawn at 150+ you can't play without a game plan. Now also you speak about challenge. I would like to know whats the challenge in any of the missions outside of spy and raids? there is no real strategy other than kill as much as you can and crowd control.

[Kai_Shiba]

Wanna know why you couldn't respond to your last thread? Because they locked it.

Edited March 10, 2016 by KJRenz

[DeMonkey]

Recreating threads is a bad idea. If you want to have this discussion find one of the other numerous bad threads designed to question why people have differing views on what's fun.

Because that's all it boils down to.

[MarcusGraves]

Why are you even doing this again? we already told you the first time, and holy hell break up your thoughts, work on the grammar and cut out the bits of rambling so your points aren't buried under all of it.

Mesa was too front loaded into her ult to where there was no actual point in using the rest of her kit and DE can never balance properly on the first 1-3 tries to resolve these issues and that's the end of it. 

Either way this will get locked again.

[NovusNova]

Please do not repost locked topics on the forums.

Locking.