Tonkor: Let's fix easy mode

[TheLexiConArtist]

48 minutes ago, Ax10mCRO said:

The tonkor damage was nerfed roughly 40%, for example i used to crit 150k on hieracon it's been reduced to 90k, also I have noticed a lot less headcrits than before (the 90k crits are more rare these days) after some of the hotfixes. It's not something that was in the patch notes, but it's something that every Tonkor user should have noticed by now.

On a personal note: I find it a bit funny that you're still advertising Tonkor nerfs without even knowing that it HAS been nerfed recently.

So the Tonkor hasn't changed, something involved in the end damage calculation has.

Hieracon is... *check* Infestation, curses. I was hoping for Corpus, it would be explained away as bugging the 'headcrit' bonus multiplier in 18.5 then (would answer previous questions too).

 

Fact is, the Tonkor's stats are the same. Anything beyond that is anecdotal, or something that will apply to all weapons undergoing a given damage calculation, not a 'tonkor nerf'.

Let's investigate? Simulacrum GO:

Damage unmodded from base, all yellowcrit

Ancients (+ Eximus): 4867 (caustic eximus stacked blast resist)

Boiler (+ Eximus): 3564-4867 (caustic again)

Brood Mother: 4867

Brood Mother Eximus: 1947-3564-4867 (unreliable headcrit damage/autoheadshot?)

Charger: 812 (known to not autoheadshot anyway)

Charger Eximus: 487 (Parasitic extra resist? Explains some inconsistent Broodmother eximi and Boiler eximi along with Caustic Eximi issue)

Crawlers: 3244

Crawler Eximus: 1947 (Parasitic have additional blast resist confirmed.)

Leaper, Runner, V.Runner: 3244

Leaper Eximus: 1947 (more Parasitic confirmation)

(both) Mutalist Moa: 1217

(both) Mutalist Moa Eximus: up to 1217 (more parasitic and caustic reductions)

Mutalist Ospreys + Carriers: 812

 

So our numbers, using Codex entries to gauge weakness/resistances:

812 is consistent with a 325*2.5 nonheadshot crit.

1217 is consistent with 812 + 50% blast weakness.

3244 is consistent with 325*2.5*2*2 full headcrit bonus.

1947 is inconsistent with 3244 - 25% expected blast resistence, expected ~2433. Parasitic eximi are taking less damage than expected. (roughly -40% instead of -25%)

4867 is consistent with 3244 + 50% blast weakness.

3564 is inconsistent with 3244 + 25% expected blast weakness; expected ~4055. 25% bonuses are only giving roughly 10%?

Brood Mother and Boiler eximi have differing additional weaknesses to Blast - Sanguine has 50% weakness compared to others at 25% weakness. Some inconsistency explained when exploding eximi as a group.

Edited March 29, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Ax10mCRO]

The damage reduction can be noticed on all maps, I simply used hieracon as an example because that's the one I ran the most when 18.5 came live.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Ax10mCRO said:

The damage reduction can be noticed on all maps, I simply used hieracon as an example because that's the one I ran the most when 18.5 came live.

Anecdotes don't help, I just proved consistency in all non-eximus Infested unit damage. Perhaps more Caustic eximi spawned than normal in your recent memory, skewing average blast damage output (presumably Venomous eximi similarly affecting any Toxin-based elementals you might use, also).

[Ax10mCRO]

2 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Anecdotes don't help, I just proved consistency in all non-eximus Infested unit damage. Perhaps more Caustic eximi spawned than normal in your recent memory, skewing average blast damage output (presumably Venomous eximi similarly affecting any Toxin-based elementals you might use, also).

Or perhaps you'd actually have to try it in proper situations where monsters are higher level than the dummies you spawn, perhaps they changed the way things scale?

[IceColdHawk]

9 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

There might always be enemies, but when you get to kill 3 out of a pack of 10 before the Tonkor-using ally flies past and instakills the other 7, while also fighting their own packs, that's negative if you're setting out with the goal of amassing kills. It's not the same as a Frost player built for globes accepting that they're not going to get the kills of a Mag built for Shield Polarise damage in aug-shield Sorties. The warframes are in different categories.

You shouldn't enter the battle solely with "getting the most kills" in your mind. It's ugly. But if you really really insist in getting some many kills in that round, feel free to regroup or play with friends. Seriously, it's just a kneejerk reaction of oversensible players and trying to suck out the enjoyment of other for solely that reason shouldn't be accepted. You don't only need tonkor for that, i named multiple reasons how and why a player can get the most kills.

However, i agree that at some points the tonkor is really unfair. Let me propose a simple solution then.

1. Add self-damage! - Why? It's just completely stupid that the launcher with a "rocket jump" function while being WAY stronger than other launchers also has no self-damage. Other users sweat with their angstrum to not die, people with tonkor use it as a melee and be all "gg ez". No Pain, no Gain! It's just logic that tonkor should also deal damage to yourself especially since it's the strongest launcher. You can add the rocket jump function that deals no damage as secondary mode if some people still want it to keep for any reason.

2. Highly increase the mastery rank restriction! - Why? Because MR5 is nothing. Where is the sense of progression when you, as a newbie can get your hands already on the strongest weapon? Make it at least MR 16 - 18. So you always have something to work for. Some people be like: "Why should i care for MR when i got tonkor now?". That's stupid and shouldn't be in the game, a strong gun for low MR. Anyway, there are also many other weapons that could need a serious MR rebalance...

Now that should make things a lot easier and more fair. But DON'T reduce the DAMAGE in any way! People like to play into late game, and for that they obviously want to pick the strongest guns. So don't limit their choices!! Like i said, make it's MR restriction higher so the late game people can enjoy it's toy while the fresher gamers can have something to work for. We honestly don't need another synoid gammacor-style nerf to death.

Edited March 29, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, Ax10mCRO said:

Or perhaps you'd actually have to try it in proper situations where monsters are higher level than the dummies you spawn, perhaps they changed the way things scale?

Occam's Razor - the simplest answer is often the correct one. What's more likely, you arbitrarily, anecdotally feel a difference when evidence suggests that numbers are mostly consistent with expectations, or DE made a core and overarching change to some scaling without any mention in patch notes whatsoever?

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

You shouldn't enter the battle solely with "getting the most kills" in your mind. It's ugly. But if you really really insist in getting some many kills in that round, feel free to regroup or play with friends. Seriously, it's just a kneejerk reaction of oversensible players and trying to suck out the enjoyment of other for solely that reason shouldn't be accepted. You don't only need tonkor for that, i named multiple reasons how and why a player can get the most kills.

However, i agree that at some points the tonkor is really unfair. Let me propose a simple solution then.

1. Add self-damage! - Why? It's just completely stupid that the launcher with a "rocket jump" function while being WAY stronger than other launchers also has no self-damage. Other users sweat with their angstrum to not die, people with tonkor use it as a melee and be all "gg ez". No Pain, no Gain! It's just logic that tonkor should also deal damage to yourself especially since it's the strongest launcher. You can add the rocket jump function that deals no damage as secondary mode if some people still want it to keep for any reason.

2. Highly increase the mastery rank restriction! - Why? Because MR5 is nothing. Where is the sense of progression when you, as a newbie can get your hands already on the strongest weapon? Make it at least MR 16 - 18. So you always have something to work for. Some people be like: "Why should i care for MR when i got tonkor now?". That's stupid and shouldn't be in the game, a strong gun for low MR. Anyway, there are also many other weapons that could need a serious MR rebalance...

Now that should make things a lot easier and more fair. But DON'T reduce the DAMAGE in any way! People like to play into late game, and for that they obviously want to pick the strongest guns. So don't limit their choices!! Like i said, make it's MR restriction higher so the late game people can enjoy it's toy while the fresher gamers can have something to work for. We honestly don't need another synoid gammacor-style nerf to death.

Yeah, that's why I don't personally have that mindset. But let's be honest, that's the goal of some people. Like Ax10mCRO, they want to overpower everything.. and they deserve reasonable variety of choice with which to do so, just like everyone else deserves choice of how to approach their goal too.

 

Appropriate self-damage is a perfect and immediate solution. It's the risk that the Tonkor should definitely have, considering its completely overblown reward compared to other launcher options. Instantaneously, the accuracy factor becomes a real drawback by mandating a minimum range the weapon must aim for, instead of something completely irrelevant because you can point-blank shot without worry.

We have already explored the oddity of headcrits, and this, I think, is a big part of the problem as well. When you average crit stats, damage per shot is already favourable to the Tonkor, with the exception of the Ogris by a margin of 30 at base, which could be fine. Even the fact that crit mods allow more to maximise damage than base-damage weapons is still okay. Makes it the best damage, but the control stability of a Penta might be more valuable. When headcrits get involved, that disparity is then more than doubled. At that point, what may have been a weapon passably stronger in order to offset usage restrictions becomes completely incomparable.

 

I could argue for a change during rebalancing launchers as a whole to make them all totally uncritting but always headshot (including Chargers et al. where they currently do not), or something of that regard (arguable that doubling damage base and always bodyshotting accomplishes the same goal without having to add headshots to chargers/ospreys/etc) - Critting also applies to self-damage, which is undesirable randomness that can't be properly anticipated; once appropriate selfdamage is given to the Tonkor, this is more of a pressing problem than it is with 5% chance on an Ogris.

Edited March 29, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Ax10mCRO]

16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

What's more likely, you arbitrarily, anecdotally feel a difference when evidence suggests that numbers are mostly consistent with expectations, or DE made a core and overarching change to some scaling without any mention in patch notes whatsoever?

Well, this is what I'm talking about (an older post in this thread from someone else who didn't believe me, then tested it himself and saw I was right about the nerf)

On 17.03.2016. at 1:07 AM, taiiat said:

now yes, the Damage is lower right this second, was ~204,000.
a ~30% difference - which yay, now means that instead of Tonkor dealing ~18x the Damage of any other Explosive Weapon (~11x if no Heavy Caliber), that it's now ~15.6 with Heavy Caliber and ~11.1 (wut?) without Heavy Caliber.

Thats coming from a test ran by someone who actually uses a modded (not a vanilla version like you do) Tonkor, I did not pull the data out of my &#!, it's not my "feeling" as you try to describe it, it is an undocumented change made by DE.

[TheLexiConArtist]

12 minutes ago, Ax10mCRO said:

Well, this is what I'm talking about (an older post in this thread from someone else who didn't believe me, then tested it himself and saw I was right about the nerf)

Thats coming from a test ran by someone who actually uses a modded (not a vanilla version like you do) Tonkor, I did not pull the data out of my &#!, it's not my "feeling" as you try to describe it, it is an undocumented change made by DE.

Scientific procedure tells us to eliminate as many variables as possible. Using a modded Tonkor (for anything other than consistency of the data points - getting 100% crit chance because the headcrit multiplier exists as another variable to address) is just muddying the waters of the test.

 

After all, if it was a Tonkor nerf then it would be present regardless of mods, wouldn't it? Going further than that, it's at most a change to damage algorithms that apply to more things than the Tonkor, thus making its citation as specifically nerfing the Tonkor invalid.

Edited March 29, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Ax10mCRO]

Just now, EDYinnit said:

Scientific procedure tells us to eliminate as many variables as possible. Using a modded Tonkor (for anything other than consistency of the data points - getting 100% crit chance because the headcrit multiplier exists as another variable to address) is just muddying the waters of the test.

 

After all, if it was a Tonkor nerf then it would be present regardless of mods, wouldn't it? Going further than that, it's a change to damage algorithms that apply to more things than the Tonkor, thus making its citation as specifically nerfing the Tonkor invalid.

Arguing semantics won't change the fact that it has made Tonkor less effective in other words it's no longer capable of 1 shotting mobs above level 100 like it used to do.

[LazyKnight]

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

Scientific procedure tells us to eliminate as many variables as possible. Using a modded Tonkor (for anything other than consistency of the data points - getting 100% crit chance because the headcrit multiplier exists as another variable to address) is just muddying the waters of the test.

This is a point that should not be dismissed out of hands by using deflection, as there used to be a sticky post about this. It's one thing to say Tonkor's op because of paper DPS, it's quite another to have the weapon and are able to demonstrate it hitting for 100k or whatever number your weapon is doing one-shooting everything in an area.

DE crushed Synapse's status viability, with their adjustment, and it took in game use to see it was junk. People were STILL parroting the line about it being a status monster and never bothered to check how it handled.

It's the reason I am not saying it's able to one-shot or not because I do not want to forma and catalyzed a weapon DE could nuke from orbit. 

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by LazyKnight
Messed up the post and fixed it.

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 minutes ago, Ax10mCRO said:

Arguing semantics won't change the fact that it has made Tonkor less effective in other words it's no longer capable of 1 shotting mobs above level 100 like it used to do.

Irrelevant if the same thing also reduces the power of all other things in the exact same way (assuming your claim is even true); power balace remains exactly as disparate as before.

If 2x = 4y = 10, then halving everything to x = 2y = 5 does not change the fact that 2x = 4y.

[Ax10mCRO]

8 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Irrelevant if the same thing also reduces the power of all other things in the exact same way (assuming your claim is even true); power balace remains exactly as disparate as before.

Assuming what I claim about Tonkor having less damage (and that guy has proved with a screenshot) is true then this is the result.

You're claiming that DE has nerfed every single weapon in the game equally (because Tonkor base stats remained the same even tho he does less damage now) and therefore Tonkor wasn't nerfed.

This community is full of people who love to complain (let's take you as an example of that) and you're trying to tell me that nobody reacted to a nerf to every single weapon in the game? I find this to be very very hard to believe.

Regardless the end result is the same, Tonkor now has to hit both of his shots to kill things at higher levels, this means that every single miss of his is even more damaging than before. You used to have 2 chances to wipe the group out before reloading, now you have only 1 chance to do so (and none if they're spread out enough). It just enforces my argument that Tonkor is no longer the weapon you claim it to be and doesn't require further nerfs.

[TheLexiConArtist]

27 minutes ago, Ax10mCRO said:

Assuming what I claim about Tonkor having less damage (and that guy has proved with a screenshot) is true then this is the result.

You're claiming that DE has nerfed every single weapon in the game equally (because Tonkor base stats remained the same even tho he does less damage now) and therefore Tonkor wasn't nerfed.

This community is full of people who love to complain (let's take you as an example of that) and you're trying to tell me that nobody reacted to a nerf to every single weapon in the game? I find this to be very very hard to believe.

Regardless the end result is the same, Tonkor now has to hit both of his shots to kill things at higher levels, this means that every single miss of his is even more damaging than before. You used to have 2 chances to wipe the group out before reloading, now you have only 1 chance to do so (and none if they're spread out enough). It just enforces my argument that Tonkor is no longer the weapon you claim it to be and doesn't require further nerfs.

A single screenshot without appropriate context proves nothing. We still only have anecdotal mention of the magical mystery "before-damage". No justification (multipliers, damage base) given for the current damage, no listing of the mods used to enhance damage (element combo unknown), no acknowlegement of the effect of a possible elemental weakness on the mod that could be added.

Put that against proven consistent damage values and you see where the claim begins to fall into dispute. Arguably, if it was doing any more damage specific to the weapon itself, it was through some sort of bug that was fixed, so you were never entitled to that supposed extra strength anyway.

But you know what, I've felt that I'm doing less damage than before with all my weapons, so that means Timmy has even more time to saunter on by and lob a Tonkor turd over my shoulder to clear the pack. Funny how random anecdotes work in one's favour, huh.

[Ax10mCRO]

11 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

A single screenshot without appropriate context proves nothing. We still only have anecdotal mention of the magical mystery "before-damage". No justification (multipliers, damage base) given for the current damage, no listing of the mods used to enhance damage (element combo unknown), no acknowlegement of the effect of a possible elemental weakness on the mod that could be added.

Put that against proven consistent damage values and you see where the claim begins to fall into dispute. Arguably, if it was doing any more damage specific to the weapon itself, it was through some sort of bug that was fixed, so you were never entitled to that supposed extra strength anyway.

But you know what, I've felt that I'm doing less damage than before with all my weapons, so that means Timmy has even more time to saunter on by and lob a Tonkor turd over my shoulder to clear the pack. Funny how random anecdotes work in one's favour, huh.

This is rather pathetic, you're arguing for the sake of arguing, the tonkor having lower damage was confirmed by a person who claimed that Tonkor needs nerf. Do you think he made up something that goes against his argument?

It is not something pulled out of thin air, it does not have to be backed up by pages of fancy math that nobody gives a s**t about, it's a fact that can be confirmed by anyone who actually PLAYED tonkor before and after the patch, instead of screwing around with an unmodded version.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Ax10mCRO said:

This is rather pathetic, you're arguing for the sake of arguing, the tonkor having lower damage was confirmed by a person who claimed that Tonkor needs nerf. Do you think he made up something that goes against his argument?

It is not something pulled out of thin air, it does not have to be backed up by pages of fancy math that nobody gives a s**t about, it's a fact that can be confirmed by anyone who actually PLAYED tonkor before and after the patch, instead of screwing around with an unmodded version.

Arguing for the sake of arguing? You're arguing that a change which, whether true or not, has not been proven to be specific to the Tonkor nor is detailed in any patch note you care to provide as proof of such, makes the Tonkor less imbalanced.

Perhaps last time the person tested the damage the target had a 25% weakness, or conversely that this time it had a 25% resistance, due to using different units for the tests. We don't know because we don't have actual before and after details.

Until it is reasonably proven that old damage existed and new damage is lower and this only happens with the Tonkor and cannot be attributed to other factors, it neither changes nor proves nothing. Now what's just done for the sake of argument?

[Ax10mCRO]

8 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Arguing for the sake of arguing? You're arguing that a change which, whether true or not, has not been proven to be specific to the Tonkor nor is detailed in any patch note you care to provide as proof of such, makes the Tonkor less imbalanced.

Perhaps last time the person tested the damage the target had a 25% weakness, or conversely that this time it had a 25% resistance, due to using different units for the tests. We don't know because we don't have actual before and after details.

Until it is reasonably proven that old damage existed and new damage is lower and this only happens with the Tonkor and cannot be attributed to other factors, it neither changes nor proves nothing. Now what's just done for the sake of argument?

What you're saying is that several people claiming that Tonkor does less damage than it did before are lying because nobody bothered taking screenshots BEFORE the patch to prove their damage was higher then?

So, (since you're so hung up on proof and math) why don't you try playing Tonkor for a bit (in proper matches, properly modded) then prove to me (with screenshots and math) that it 1 hits everything, something that you're claiming it does. Until you do so I will not trust you that it 1hits everything (especially since I got a 6 forma Tonkor myself and don't see it happening on sorties after the patch).

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

3 hours ago, Ax10mCRO said:

What you're saying is that several people claiming that Tonkor does less damage than it did before are lying because nobody bothered taking screenshots BEFORE the patch to prove their damage was higher then?

So, (since you're so hung up on proof and math) why don't you try playing Tonkor for a bit (in proper matches, properly modded) then prove to me (with screenshots and math) that it 1 hits everything, something that you're claiming it does. Until you do so I will not trust you that it 1hits everything (especially since I got a 6 forma Tonkor myself and don't see it happening on sorties after the patch).

7 forma on my tonkor and after this nerf i changed to sonicore or in a lot of cases i run quanta cubes plus sonicore instead of missed die tonkor 

[IceColdHawk]

Good day my fellow debaters. Looks like i got some work to do once again.

4 hours ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

7 forma on my tonkor and after this nerf i changed to sonicore or in a lot of cases i run quanta cubes plus sonicore instead of missed die tonkor 

What nerf? Tonkor has the same damage as always. I don't really like bad arguments like the one that TheBrskr came up with and i explained how that's just bs. However, i also don't like rumors or lies that ain't true, only in order to defend something. Please people, stay honest or leave.

Screenshots i've taken in order of evidence:

Damage against ancients:

Spoiler

 

Damage against chargers:

Spoiler

 

Damage against volatile runners:

Spoiler

Also this might fit:

12 hours ago, Ax10mCRO said:

The tonkor damage was nerfed roughly 40%, for example i used to crit 150k on hieracon (ancient damage) it's been reduced to 90k (volatile runner damage)

 

And now to top that all off. Damage on all three enemies at once on hieracon (for those people who think that simulacrum is inaccurate for some reason):

Spoiler

I also want to say that eximii can reduce damage. So can healer auras. Tonkor does ALWAYS headshot but keep in mind, chargers DON'T have a head! That's why you deal 4x the damage to volatile runners but not against chargers. Volatile runners got a head! Oh and the initial impact of the grenade itself deals 4-digit numbers ofc. 

There is no bug in here and also no tonkor nerf, all just rumors. Now enjoy to continue argumenting for the sake of honesty now please.

Edited March 30, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Ax10mCRO]

7 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Good day my fellow debaters. Looks like i got some work to do once again.

What nerf? Tonkor has the same damage as always. I don't really like bad arguments like the one that TheBrskr came up with and i explained how that's just bs. However, i also don't like rumors or lies that ain't true, only in order to defend something. Please people, stay honest or leave.

Screenshots i've taken in order of evidence:

Damage against ancients:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Damage against chargers:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Damage against volatile runners:

  Reveal hidden contents

Also this might fit:

 

And now to top that all off. Damage on all three enemies at once on hieracon (for those people who think that simulacrum is inaccurate for some reason):

  Reveal hidden contents

I also want to say that eximii can reduce damage. So can healer auras. Tonkor does ALWAYS headshot but keep in mind, chargers DON'T have a head! That's why you deal 4x the damage to volatile runners but not against chargers. Volatile runners got a head! Oh and the initial impact of the grenade itself deals 4-digit numbers ofc. 

There is no bug in here and also no tonkor nerf, all just rumors. Now enjoy to continue argumenting for the sake of honesty now please.

In the words of my friend EDYinnit: "That's a whole lot of work but completely out of context because you're not comparing it to damage pre patch therefore you proved nothing."

[IceColdHawk]

22 minutes ago, Ax10mCRO said:

In the words of my friend EDYinnit: "That's a whole lot of work but completely out of context because you're not comparing it to damage pre patch therefore you proved nothing."

Stop denying the obvious and accept the fact that it is how it is. It doesn't "magically" deal less damage. It has the same stats as before and it deals the same damage as before. I even quoted you where you said you dealt 90k damage which is infact probably damage on a volatile runner where as the 140k damage was an ancient!

Ignoring obvious facts won't make you look good in a debate, just saying.

Edited March 30, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Ax10mCRO]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

Stop denying the obvious and accept the fact that it is how it is.

But it's not an "obvious fact" no matter how much you try to present it as such without any proof. You crit 140k now, how much did you crit before the patch? All I have is the word of a random stranger online.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Ax10mCRO said:

But it's not an "obvious fact" no matter how much you try to present it as such without any proof. You crit 140k now, how much did you crit before the patch? All I have is the word of a random stranger online.

Are you kidding me? I'm still doing the same damage as always.

Oh, i got no proof from before? Where is yours then? It's not like you're someone else than also a random stranger online.

Look, i'm not here to get anything nerfed and i've mentioned it ENOUGH already. I find tonkor alright! Anyway, fallacies and stupid arguments should never be accepted, no matter which side and by who. 

[Ax10mCRO]

21 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Are you kidding me? I'm still doing the same damage as always.

Oh, i got no proof from before? Where is yours then? It's not like you're someone else than also a random stranger online.

Unfortunately I am not kidding you, this is simply tied to something that has already happened in this thread.

A user named taiiat has provided a screenshot of his damage, and he says he used to do more damage before the patch. That has been dismissed by EDYinnit as a "false statement without any proof" because he had no pre-patch screenshot to compare it to.

Now you show up with no pre-patch screenshot and a statement that can't be verified and suddenly we should accept this to be true?

That is why I have asked EDYinnit to provide proof that he can 1hit anything on sorties at this time to back up his claim that Tonkor users simply stroll through the game blasting anything in sight with no drawbacks (such as having to reload during a fight). That way we can skip this entire need for time traveling to obtain old screenshots.

Edit: To make sure nobody can claim screenshots were edited, a nice little video of that run where he 1hits everything (solo run, using just the Tonkor, since like he said warframes throw the entire equation out the window) would be appreciated (along with his Tonkor setup)

 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Ax10mCRO

[ashrah]

On 3/13/2016 at 11:14 PM, ----Fenrir---- said:

Please no self damage. Every time a stupid teammate runs in front of you, you die... The Tonkor is the only explosive weapon I use precisely for that reason.

that is very common thing.....that why i stop use penta

[IceColdHawk]

19 minutes ago, Ax10mCRO said:

Unfortunately I am not kidding you, this is simply tied to something that has already happened in this thread.

A user named taiiat has provided a screenshot of his damage, and he says he used to do more damage before the patch. That has been dismissed by EDYinnit as a "false statement without any proof" because he had no pre-patch screenshot to compare it to.

Now you show up with no pre-patch screenshot and a statement that can't be verified and suddenly we should accept this to be true?

That is why I have asked EDYinnit to provide proof that he can 1hit anything on sorties at this time to back up his claim that Tonkor users simply stroll through the game blasting anything in sight with no drawbacks (such as having to reload during a fight). That way we can skip this entire need for time traveling to obtain old screenshots.

 

I'm not really a fan of myths and lies. And i see you want it the hard way huh? Good, i'll proof it with simple maths then.

Tonkor build for math purposes:

Spoiler

I excluded split chamber because it screws with our damage numbers. The numbers will still be the same though, you just got a 90% chance of seeing them twice with split chamber.

Now one thing to mention here is that the tonkor's actual base damage for added elementals is 400. 75 goes into the grenade impact and the other 325 goes into the AoE damage. Since i got no blast mods in it, the blast damage shown here only comes from heavy c. and serration. That will only be the AoE itself. 322 puncture is irrelevant because that's only for the grenade impact. Now corrosive damage of 3096 won't be all for the AoE. 75 of 400 is exactly 18.75%. So 18.75% from the total corrosive damage goes into the grenade impact while the other 81,25% goes into the AoE.

3096 * 0.8125 = 2515.5

Now 2515.5 is our actual corrosive number that contributes to our final AoE damage that i'm gonna calculate right now.

A simple charger who got no weaknesses to blast nor corrosive while also getting no headshot bonus will be the easiest to calculate:

1398 [blast dmg] + 2515.5 [corrosive dmg] = 3913 now multiply that by 5.5 since this is our crit multiplier: 3913 * 5.5 = 21524.25 Damage against chargers!

8 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Damage against chargers:

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Due to weird roundings in warframe the result isn't COMPLETELY 100% accurate. However, 21510 compared to 21524.25 is pretty damn accurate.

Anyway, let's test against ancients now! Slightly harder since they got a weakness to both elements while also having a +50% weakness and a +75% weakness. Still, no problem, everything's easy. Blast is +50%. Corrosive is +75%. So...

1398 * 1.5 = 2097 Blast damage.

2515.5 * 1.75 = 4402.125 Corrosive damage.

(2097 + 4402.125) * 5.5 [critmultiplier] = 35745.1875 Crit damage against BODY! But since tonkor deals headshot damage and that crit headshots deal x4 the damage, we can multiply 35745.1875 with 4 and we'll get...   142980.75 Damage against ancients!

9 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Damage against ancients:

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142980.75 compared to 142897. Again small difference due to warframe's unpredictable roundings.

 

Everything is accurate, no "magical tonkor nerfs" are there. There can be multiple factors that negate your damage such as eximus, healer aura, sortie restriction, armor etc. And also any buff from any frame could occur, be it a rhino roar or just a rifle amp. Fact is, tonkor deals EXACTLY the damage that is advertised. I suggest you to finally admit that you've been imagining things instead of embarassing yourself any further. Just a well meant advise.

IceColdHawk signing out.