To everyone that has seen Devstream 71 and still oppose genderswap

[-Temp0-]

6 hours ago, RadioLarity said:

And I'm saying that 1. Female Ash looks awesome 2. It looks more awesome than regular Ash

Because it has a nice butt? That's basically the only reason people want to see genderswapped frames, I guarantee it. 

But if modders will also work on female frames, it can be kinda ok. Not very probable tho. 

[CaterHowlett16]

20 minutes ago, RS219 said:

Snipped you because including your full quote with my reply would result in a wall of text. Anyways.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting something, but one moment you say you're neutral to the idea of genderswapped frames then next moment you seem to be implying that DE MUST implement these skins and that not doing it is somehow doing a disservice to every paying customer (what with that whole "listen to the community" thing). If what you say is the case that people are going to leave because no genderswap skins? Well, I suppose that's a few thousand bucks per month lost... out of the hundred thousands more DE is making, what with Chinaframe now flooding in additional revenue.

Like I said. When I started Warframe I had the same "there should be genderswap" ideas, but with the way things have been built on, and the way things are now? It'll probably be implemented sometime right before Excalibur Prime is made publicly available.

Nope I did not even say that. They don't HAVE to implement these skins. All they have to do is CONSIDER it like any other idea that comes from the community. This will take time yes, but so does all new cosmetical content (you think they did the immortal skins overnight?). The question is if it's worth it.

I want this idea to have it's day in court. That's all. If DE looks long and hard and still says NO. I'm ok with that, at least they thought about it. That would be considered listening to the community in my book.  The only reasonable argument I ever see against this is that it will take time and effort, but as I said before, that's the case with anything. I just don't like that mindless "Too much work NO." stamp on it.

Edited March 19, 2016 by CaterHowlett16

[Plushy]

Oh look, another thread just like the other thousand times this topic has come up the week. 

[RS219]

2 minutes ago, CaterHowlett16 said:

Nope I did not even say that. They don't HAVE to implement these skins. All they have to do is CONSIDER it like any other idea that comes from the community. This will take time yes, but so does all new cosmetical content (you think they did the immortal skins overnight?). The question is if it's worth it.

I want this idea to have it's day in court. That's all. If DE looks long and hard and still says NO. I'm ok with that, at least they thought about it. The only reasonable argument I ever see against this is that it will take time and effort, but as I said before, that's the case with anything. I just don't like that mindless "Too much work NO." stamp on it.

Then what's the whole "how is Warframe going to stay afloat - Catering to your community - DE, DON'T STOP LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY" stuff about? You may not be outright saying it, but I can't help but feel that you're implying it by the tone. It swings both ways; if the majority of the community doesn't want these skins (please don't make me tally up all the comments in here), that's also what will pass for the voice of the community.

Well, either way as it stands, DE probably already gave it a good hard some time ago and decided the resources could be better spent elsewhere. The people so desperate for this sort of alt-skin will have to turn to Tennogen for their next best hope if they want to see these alt skins rolled out within the next 2 years. Don't fret about it, is all I can say.

[akira_him]

errr, you want immersion?
that's at the back of your ship, I mean, somatic link is a thing

[Dead10ck]

5 hours ago, RadioLarity said:

IAnd I can't really think of any big lore thing to really stop us from doing that.

Lore isn't the problem, it's twice as much work to create two models for every frame and skin for something that only a few people would use. Personally I'd rather have them focus on quality than quantity.

[xDeadlined]

3 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

yey.

Now people wont have to deal with their sexist discomfort of playing the other sex, and can stay on their small comfort bubble.

Suppose that's what you get when you treat games solely has a product and a service instead of an art form with an opinion.

Whatever. Done with this subject.

Oh, and OP: Concept Art and discarted models can NOT be used as proof for anything.

And your whole post was childish has hell.

 

3 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Because subconsciously you don't see women belonging to the same group has you, and you (also subconsciously) consider belonging to their group (through personalization through a character) an undesired thing.

Simple put, and without saying this as an insult (more as an unfortunate fact), you are being sexist.

 

What are you talking about? You are the kind of people that I would refuse to talk to IRL because you're so opinionated that you refuse to see any other points and assume you're 100% correct in your assumption of my reasoning, which you're not by the way. Am I sexist? no. Am I uncomfortable playing as a female character? no. I'm also no longer going to deign your small minded remarks on my character with my actual reasoning. Food for thought, did I say I am male? I bet you didn't think about that. Have a nice day, and remember to keep an open mind. Not all your assumptions will always be correct, so you shouldn't attack one's character based on your assumptions. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Lionheart.Zyr

[Dead10ck]

3 hours ago, Artarrwen said:

Well, you didn't say much did you.

What DE could do is just allow model swaps in Tennogen. If people want gender swaps that badly - something will come out of it, it'll get approval and maybe just maybe DE will let it in. IF it's approved. If not, we just get another source of deluxe skins. Everyone wins. (well, eventually, console players)

I know it's a long shot but it's not entirely out of the question.

If they worked like the other Tennogen skins there's a possibility for legal issues. They would be making money for slight alterations of something they did not create. With the community the way it is I'm also sure that DE would have to sort through huge lists of them to find one that's proportionate and appropriate.

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

So long as it's purely tennogen, I honestly don't care.  There are people who want alt gender skins, and that's fine.  There are people who don't, that's fine too.

The reason there's any difficulty for DE is because there are so many frames, and everyone would need a double (actually kinda curious how Equinox would be envisioned) and every one is another frames worth of work.  Getting the design modeled out isn't the time consumer, getting it to work correctly is.

If DEsomehow added  a way for tennogen to include scripting am pathing for anything made, it'd be simple...but then that would bring about other problems later on...huh....no simple means, actually.

[Plushy]

4 minutes ago, DeadSirius said:

If they worked like the other Tennogen skins there's a possibility for legal issues. They would be making money for slight alterations of something they did not create. With the community the way it is I'm also sure that DE would have to sort through huge lists of them to find one that's proportionate and appropriate.

They already do that with the Tennogen stuff don't they?

[firelordzx5]

Won't work.

I think you misunderstood the Devstream

They said that genderswap skin from the community using Tennogen was no considered (if they EVER allow us to alter the base model of the warframe and not specific things - like the textures and the helmet) but to allow us that, they have to open the ability to alter the base model of the warframe and that it's something that more likely won't happen. (it would also make the point of developing deluxe skin completely time wasting since the community can make something much more.)

[Dead10ck]

Just now, Plushy said:

They already do that with the Tennogen stuff don't they?

They create and heavily modify their own textures, they're not just reshaping a pre-existing model.

[That1Cactus]

1 minute ago, DeadSirius said:

They create and heavily modify their own textures, they're not just reshaping a pre-existing model.

Forgetting that there are full on unique helmet, weapon, and syandana models in Tennogen.

[Plushy]

1 minute ago, DeadSirius said:

They create and heavily modify their own textures, they're not just reshaping a pre-existing model.

Aren't people making new alt helmets?

[Dead10ck]

 And weapons.

[Kai_Shiba]

They already stated in the Devstream that it's highly unlikely that they would allow Tennogen to make genderswap skins. Furthermore, having genderswap skins behind any form of paywall is bad practice. 

[firelordzx5]

Again, The Tennogen only allow to alter or make Helmets, make weapons' skins and make syandanas.

we can alter warframe's body model but only the textures and nothing more.

[Cyaminthe]

1 hour ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Those Chinese would love to see their gods Wukong and Nezha to become female.

Or Atlas and Loki.

It's funny that you bring up Loki, because he actually did turn into a female on one occasion. A female horse, but still.

[Ryouhi]

Every time one of these threads pops up i cringe.

I can understand the desire to have gender options, but honestly that would take away the last bit of personality the individual Frames have away and that's something i really do not want.
It's like i would go into the League of Legends Forums demanding alt-gender skins for all the champs. What's the point?

 

Otherwise there's just the same old argument: Why invest in genderswaps if DE could focus all that money and time on creating an entirely NEW warframe?
Same with treating them as skins - Skins offer complete redesigns of the Frames, with completely different themes

Aside, if they would do Alt-genders, do you see how many different Frames we have?
29 and counting... + 12 Primes, which would Alt-genders as well... + 3 Skins with 2 in the pipeline right now....

That's 38 Models just to satisfy the need to have different genders for the vocal minority, do you realize how much freaking work that even is?
 

Instead they can just release Frames with SIMILAR themes, whch works much much better.

See Ember -> Nezha
Saryn -> Typhus sometime maybe
 

Still, most importantly i don't want to have Frames reduced to being just a piece of Armor... just some shabby equipment with no character that you can just paste boobs on because

[OverlordMcGeek]

DE really needs to make a PSA that the search bar is no longer useless.

Stream said unlikely because it was time to bring it up again only because of hope from tennogen. It's still  resounding no.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

7 hours ago, RadioLarity said:

ASH-ley!

;P

[firelordzx5]

Also, if I were You OP, I won't use former placeholder model or old concept art to make this thread and from a topic that was discussed over and over just to have the same response.

[That1Cactus]

Genderswapping is indeed a very split idea when it comes to the community and the game. In Devstream 71 they were also pretty split, saying that it's something they're not looking towards but may change at a certain point (they also said no to Kavats and Syandanas and now they're very much a thing). They also brought up that it would mostly be from Tennogen which very much means it will be from the community itself. Of course the devs did say it's very unlikely. Though that doesn't mean it's totally out the door.

NOW obviously there is the whole issue with clipping, animations, optimization etc. etc. So that is a problem for sure, but the community so far has shown to create some pretty official looking stuff from the previous TennoGen additions from the workshop. And then there's obviously the "people just want them to have sexy fem-frame skins for males" thing which is not wrong, but you also have to look at the fem-frames that already exist there's really no beating around about their current looks anyways. But there is also the chance to give fem-frames the equal of male skins.

But even if they did add these to the game, they would still be cosmetic. And if you haven't gotten the idea yet, it means that it is purely optional. Meaning that you are not forced to get these skins if you don't want them. No one would force you to get these skins anyways, so if anything you'll be saving your money.

With TennoGen too is that it is also decided by DE if the skins would be added to the game or not, because there are a LOT of cool cosmetics made in the TennoGen Steam Workshop and a good chuck of those are either accepted or not. So even if they allowed new body mesh skins into TennoGen it will all be on whether DE will add it into the game or not. Either way, people are gonna buy them. And whatever makes them money along the way will help.
Though with that if they ever do give the option for body meshes they could try to implement a tool within TennoGen to test models more effectively to see if there are problems with clipping, stretching, or any other problems. We have some extremely talented modelers in the community, so giving them the option to test their meshes with more affect would definitely help, especially when it's not made by DE.

Besides, the community will always want something that will make their Warframes look more unique. And giving more options would definitely have more players wanting to buy more cosmetics. And with cosmetics, some people are gonna to prefer some over others.

Not everyone is gonna agree with it and that perfectly fine, alternate gender skins are very much on the lowest priority of things I would want in Warframe. But at the end of the day, it will be DE's decision to add these skins to the game either from their team or from the TennoGen community. And whichever way it goes, they'll still have people buying all the skins or just leaving them be. And with what we have now, it's gonna be a long while until it could happen.

[osheroth]

I'm lost...did they hinted at the possibility of gender swap in devstream 71? 

[Ryouhi]

5 minutes ago, That1Cactus said:

But even if they did add these to the game, they would still be cosmetic. And if you haven't gotten the idea yet, it means that it is purely optional. Meaning that you are not forced to get these skins if you don't want them. No one would force you to get these skins anyways, so if anything you'll be saving your money.

But take a look at this from a player getting fresh into the game.

Say you wanna play Volt because you like the electricity theme, though you would actually prefer playing as a female character.
You play the tutorial and like to play as him and get to your liset. You look around and later on find out about the market, and there you see an Alt-gender Skin for Volt.

You'll probably ask if the DEvs are out of their minds charging money for being able to choose your gender, if you have come from any kind of RPG where it's a global, free feature.

If i was a new player and i'd find out i have to pay money to get the gender i want? i'd quit the game immediately because that wouldn't bode well for the rest of the content.

 

Aside, at the moment TennoGen is restricted to Pc players only if i'm not mistaken - that would cause another big problem of consoles being left out...