Nyx and Excalibur helmet swap. If genderskins in TENNOGEN are thing, what do you want?

[arch111]

Hi Tenno. 

Because of the recent gender-skin debates,  I did this since well, DE allready did it once.

Now the question is, do you think this works? And would a similar approach be enough?

Personally I would rework the skins more to give them their own style. The body needs to suit the helmet, and everything must look good. 

For example,  I would probably use Nehzas body as TEMPLATE to make Nyx.

And maby Saryn or Zephyr for Excalibur.

This ls for TennoGen,  not DE.

And honestly I allways wanted Nyx to have a unique body.

Edited March 22, 2016 by arch111
TENNOGEN people :)

[Hemmo67]

MY GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!

seriously taken...just no

[Sangoma]

While Excal with Nyx helmet looks ridiculous, Nyx with Excal helmet was actually an early prototype of Nyx herself, before they decided "Nah, lets make her own helmet".

She was supposed to be a "female Excal" but they dropped the idea of genders for Warframes, and decided to make her an unique Warframe, instead of female version of existing one. So very VERY unlikely that both gender swap and helmet is going to happen.

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sangoma

[-Kryptyk-]

and if you pay attention, we see a little tenno who doesn't follow the devstreams to know that there will be no gender swapping...

 

not to mention this looks really bad.

[arch111]

11 minutes ago, Firefly0037 said:

and if you pay attention, we see a little tenno who doesn't follow the devstreams to know that there will be no gender swapping...

 

not to mention this looks really bad.

Geoff:"Very unlikely."

Scott and Sheldon:" Who knows? We say NO to alot of things.  Syandanas for example."

TennoGen is what is discussed, not in-house production, they have said no to that.

* thread lightly * when calling someone ignorant.

[Genitive]

4 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Geoff:"Very unlikely."

Scott and Sheldon:" Who knows? We say NO to alot of things.  Syandanas for example."

TennoGen is what is discussed, not in-house production, they have said no to that.

* thread lightly * when calling someone ignorant.

True, they said opposite gender warframes would be no for the time being; they might change their mind, but it's unlikely.

But if you want to know my opinion, such a thing is unnecessary. Each and every warframe has its own style and it there is little point gender bending. I'd rather welcome more skins and helmets. Additionaly, I don't think opposite genders would fit some of the frames we have.

^{_{Instead give us more operator customization options.}} 

[AdunSaveMe]

No. They do not match the bodies at all.

[AuraKai]

7 minutes ago, Genitive said:

True, they said opposite gender warframes would be no for the time being; they might change their mind, but it's unlikely.

But if you want to know my opinion, such a thing is unnecessary. Each and every warframe has its own style and it there is little point gender bending. I'd rather welcome more skins and helmets. Additionaly, I don't think opposite genders would fit some of the frames we have.

^{_{Instead give us more operator customization options.}} 

It makes sense why people want opposing genders for their Frames though. It's the idea that we do want to relate to the thing we're playing more or just like playing as a certain gender. That said, I pretty much agree with you in that it would be kinda unnecessary. If they want TennoGen to make it then good on them but I would honestly hope they don't spend their own resources working on it. There are a ton more things I rather they work on... like the aforementioned Operator Customization.

As for the OP, it looks alright. Like you mentioned it would need some work but a decent proof of concept if anything.

[arch111]

This is just what we got now. A true finished male Nyx skin would have a theme and a look that go together with the helmets. 

This is a heads up to all: when asking for Gender skins,  do you really know what you want?

[Dhrekr]

1 hour ago, arch111 said:

Because of the recent gender-skin debates

Recent?

RECENT?

This could be the biggest misuse of the word "recent" I have ever witnessed.

This debate is like a 3000-years-old Egyptian plague that resurfaces on the forum to scourge and burn every one or two months.

 

Also, no. DE determines which Tennogen items end up in the game. They will never take helmets that already exist for other characters. Why won't they? Because it's plagiarism. You are basically asking if DE will be cool if users copy art assets from the game and redistribute them for a profit.

No no no no no. Borderline illegal.

[Sangoma]

As a main-Nyx player, I really wouldn't want to see her in a male version.
She is already a female "version" of Excalibur in case of looks, their bodies look alike a lot, aside the fact one is male and another female with different powers. She can be seen with Excal helmet in one of very first game teasers as well, but then again, they ditched the idea.

As it was mentioned above, most of the Warframes wouldn't even fit in the opposite gender, and DE already dropped the idea, as they must have had a reason for that, at least for now.

I can understand some people might not feel comfortable with playing a character that isn't their gender, but again, this isn't an RPG game, and the characters are unique the way they are.
You do not ask to change main character of Tomb Raider to swap from Lara Croft to Indiana Jones because it doesn't match your gender, or boycott Team Fortress 2 "because I'm a girl and all characters are male".

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sangoma

[[DE]Artarrwen]

I'll reiterate. If DE introduce full body model swaps for Warframes, even if none of the community-made gender-bender designs get approved, it still opens up another source of Deluxe-like skins.

I can't say no to that. As much as I'm against the idea of gender-bender skins existing and being paid-only.

Point is, gender-bender skins shouldn't be the focus. They can happen (not without a huge IF) as a byproduct.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Artarrwen

[arch111]

3 minutes ago, Sangoma said:

As a main-Nyx  player, I really wouldn't want to see her in a male version.
She is already a female "version" of Excalibur in case of looks, their bodies look alike a lot, aside the fact one is male and another female with different powers. She can be seen with Excal helmet in one of very first game teasers as well, but then again, they ditched the idea.

As it was mentioned above, most of the Warframes wouldn't even fit in the opposite gender, and DE already dropped the idea, as they must have had a reason for that.

I can understand some people might not feel comfortable with playing a character that isn't their gender, but again, this isn't an RPG game, and the characters are unique the way they are.
You do not ask to change main character of Tomb Raider to swap from Lara Croft to Indiana Jones because it doesn't match your gender, or boycott Team Fortress 2 "because I'm a girl and all characters are male".

I am well aware. That said, just like DE said there is a chance they make a female Volt but with new powers, sort of a cousin, this is the same thing Except the powers stay the same.

I am not unsure of my sex, I have no issues with the current game at all. And I would never say yes to poorly designed frames just to fill the gender spot.

No, what I mean is, what if I had done Nehza, just a bit more like Ember? Many say they are cousins based on Fire.

Thats the kind of rework I mean. See? I actually don't think the image posted is a good idea.

It is there to prove a Point.

[Sangoma]

2 minutes ago, arch111 said:

I am well aware. That said, just like DE said there is a chance they make a female Volt but with new powers, sort of a cousin, this is the same thing Except the powers stay the same.

I am not unsure of my sex, I have no issues with the current game at all. And I would never say yes to poorly designed frames just to fill the gender spot.

No, what I mean is, what if I had done Nehza, just a bit more like Ember? Many say they are cousins based on Fire.

Thats the kind of rework I mean. See? I actually don't think the image posted is a good idea.

It is there to prove a Point.

I do see your points in here.

I do not have any problem with playing opposite gender to mine as well, and as you have mentioned, making a poor design copycat genderbend Warframes only because people WANT genderbend is a terrible idea.

I prefer it the way they do it right now. A counter-frames. Nehza being a counter to Ember, Ivara -in a way- being a counter to Loki, Inaros maybe even a counter to tanky-healer style of Trinity.

Besides, making an exactly same Warframe with only difference having (or not) breasts, would be a total waste of their time and resources, that they could spend on designing new Warframe, weapon, quest and whatsoever.

[arch111]

Thanks for responding guys. I fully respect and understand those who think a male/female skin is unnececary.

From all the venom in the debates (the most recent. This debate is 3 years old.) I thought I would take a new approach.

I would greatly enjoy what the community would create if given the chance.

[arch111]

3 minutes ago, Sangoma said:

I do see your points in here.

I do not have any problem with playing opposite gender to mine as well, and as you have mentioned, making a poor design copycat genderbend Warframes only because people WANT genderbend is a terrible idea.

I prefer it the way they do it right now. A counter-frames. Nehza being a counter to Ember, Ivara -in a way- being a counter to Loki, Inaros maybe even a counter to tanky-healer style of Trinity.

Besides, making an exactly same Warframe with only difference having (or not) breasts, would be a total waste of their time and resources, that they could spend on designing new Warframe, weapon, quest and whatsoever.

So what, if any at all, warframe would you think would be candidate for tennogen?

I am in favor of Rhino, Frost, Ember and Limbo.

[Sangoma]

If you mean for genderbend, than none, but if you mean for normal helmets, skins and accents like we do have right now, then I would not mind some of the older frames, that are kind of forgotten right now, like for example Vauban, Oberon maybe, Ash, or Ember, since they lack of fresh cosmetics, comparing to deluxe skins of Rhino, Nyx, Trinity, even Excal who has few already like prisma and proto.

[arch111]

7 minutes ago, Sangoma said:

If you mean for genderbend, than none, but if you mean for normal helmets, skins and accents like we do have right now, then I would not mind some of the older frames, that are kind of forgotten right now, like for example Vauban, Oberon maybe, Ash, or Ember, since they lack of fresh cosmetics, comparing to deluxe skins of Rhino, Nyx, Trinity, even Excal who has few already like prisma and proto.

Vauban for sure.  

[Freelancer27]

At first, I was like into the agreement of taking genderbent frames is a good addition.

 

Right now, it is just not worth to look at.

 

The reason behind this change is how the feel of the use of a Warframe both gameplay-wise and story-wise (spoilers) is implemented. You can't just simply take away the gender restriction from every Warframe, because the aspects of each Warframe is unique and plays a personality that you can administer as you play your preferred Warframes.

Example:

• You play as Rhino.

Big, bulky, lots of metal meat = Aggressive, enduring and literally breaks people.

• You play as Mirage.

Slim, elegant, feminine = Dodgy, tricky and very calculative.

While the change of abilities with a change of gender is fine (ex. Trinity/Oberon, Nyx/Excalibur), changing the gender just for aesthetics is simply too stereotyped in RPG's and really ruins the already built stories for the existing Warframes (Mag, Ember and Excalibur have very notably unique stories).

It takes away that sense that you are actually into these characters.

If someone does say otherwise, I'm not afraid to read into these and accept them. Just so people know, my experience is different to yours.

[SilentMobius]

The Last Devstream was explicit.

No to cross gender-skins even in Tennogen. Helmets for a specific Warframe must match the Warframe, no Volt-helmets on a Mag etc etc

If DE allow such things, at that point I'm sure there will be guidelines of how to approach the topic, for now, there is no topic to be discussed.

Edited March 22, 2016 by SilentMobius

[arch111]

13 minutes ago, Freelancer27 said:

At first, I was like into the agreement of taking genderbent frames is a good addition.

 

Right now, it is just not worth to look at.

 

The reason behind this change is how the feel of the use of a Warframe both gameplay-wise and story-wise (spoilers) is implemented. You can't just simply take away the gender restriction from every Warframe, because the aspects of each Warframe is unique and plays a personality that you can administer as you play your preferred Warframes.

Example:

• You play as Rhino.

Big, bulky, lots of metal meat = Aggressive, enduring and literally breaks people.

• You play as Mirage.

Slim, elegant, feminine = Dodgy, tricky and very calculative.

While the change of abilities with a change of gender is fine (ex. Trinity/Oberon, Nyx/Excalibur), changing the gender just for aesthetics is simply too stereotyped in RPG's and really ruins the already built stories for the existing Warframes (Mag, Ember and Excalibur have very notably unique stories).

It takes away that sense that you are actually into these characters.

 

Hidden Content

 

I am kind of in agreement. I do value Mag Primes badass warstory in her Codex. I am perplexed at Rhino Prime tjough, since that is very unclear how that is even related to Rhino Prime.

However. If a warframe was released with the Lore of being Titania, Oberons Wife and have the same powers,  I think that would be really cool.

Different enough to be unique, similar.enough to warrant the use of the same powers.

[arch111]

5 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

The Last Devstream was explicit.

No to cross gender-skins even in Tennogen. Helmets for a specific Warframe must match the Warframe, no Volt-helmets on a Mag etc etc

If DE allow such things, at that point I'm sure there will be guidelines of how to approach the topic, for now, there is not topic to be discussed.

The funny thing is, I think now is a prefect time to discuss it. The possibilities that TennoGen offer us, are really great.

Full body customization will lead to new Premium Skins and even alt Primes or proto-skins.

And it is the perfect way to make use of the fan-concepts!

One day perhaps a proto-frost will be real.

[SilentMobius]

8 minutes ago, arch111 said:

The funny thing is, I think now is a prefect time to discuss it. The possibilities that TennoGen offer us, are really great.

Full body customization will lead to new Premium Skins and even alt Primes or proto-skins.

And it is the perfect way to make use of the fan-concepts!

One day perhaps a proto-frost will be real.

The possibilities are really great, and one of those possibilities was Warframes full-body skins with different sex identifiers made by players... Until DE said "no" last devstream.

Shall we also discuss, porting Destiny assets? Skyrim homages? Logos of popular sports teams? Political satire as Warframe addons? Sexy adult content?

No? Is that because DE has stated that non of those will be accepted as Tennogen submissions and hence it's pointless and needlessly provocative to bring up things that have been given an explicit "no" like a toddler that is testing boundries? Hmmm?

A No is a No. It was asked and the answer was clear.

Edited March 22, 2016 by SilentMobius

[arch111]

Just now, SilentMobius said:

The possibilities are really great, and one one those possibilities was Warframes full-body skins with different sex identifiers. Until DE say "no" last devstream.

Shall we also discuss, porting Destiny assets? Skyrim homages? Logos of popular sports teams? Political satire as Warframe addons? Sexy adult content?

No? Is that because DE has stated that non of those will be accepted as Tennogen submissions and hence it's pointless and needlessly provocative to bring up things that have been given an explicit "no" like a toddler that is testing boundries? Hmmm?

An No is a No. It was asked and the answer was clear.

Um. Maby and Probably not, is hardly a cold NO.

That noone at DE will do genderskins is what they stated however. 

They said that there is a chance,  but remote, that TennoGen can handle these skins.

And as they allso said,  they have changed their NO to YES in the past.

We shall see.

[Ryouhi]

I'll just reiterate the points i have made in the last few threads...
I swear to god i'll just copy it this time and save it somewhere so i can just copy-pasta it next time >_>

Also, while the DEvs said it is possible, they still said it's probably not happening

1) Genderswaps would deprive the Frames from the last bit of character they have - this is pretty much why i hate the idea of Alt-Genders the most.
i wouldn't go to the League of Legends forums and demand Alt Gender Skins for champions, cause that would totally ruin the point of creating a character with set characteristics, including Gender/Sex, in the first place

2) If DE were to make the Skins themselves, it's a HUGE investment of ressources and time - imagine the time needed to create skins for almost 30 Warframes, as well as their Primes... Also they would be required to make Alt-Genders for any upcoming Frame/Prime, which would mean releases would take roughly twice the amount of time
Some time ago, they also said, the time and ressources needed to make an Alt-Gender is almost the same amount as creating a completely new Warframe, so i'd rather see them create new Frames personally.

And regarding the picture you posted, i know it's only a rough Helmet swap, but to me that looks terrible. It's not as easy as just pasting a pair of Breasts on a Frame and making them a little thinner. They would need to remake the complete Frame so it actually looks good.

3) If it's TennoGen what are we gonna do about consoles?
As far as i am aware TennoGen is a purely PC, or rather Steam thing - consoles would be left out, which would be another problem all together

4) Locking Gender behind a paywall is a terrible terrible idea
Especially from the view of a new player getting into the game:
Say you justed started playing the game and are now choosing which Frame you want to play. You can't quite decide between Volt, because you like his electricity theme and Mag, because you usually like to play as female characters. You choose Volt in the end and play the tutorial and realize you really like to play him.

Now, back in your Liset you find the Market and browse a little, but there you find an Alt-Gender Skin for Volt...
What do you think a new Players reaction would be in this situation? Especially considering that genders are usually FREE to choose, if you have ever played any other RPG.

 

Anyway that's just my take on this whole thing.

Cheers