LoR Seems to bring out a few bad peeps :(

[oneforsaken]

3 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

It's interesting reading the 'git gud' arguments in here.

They seem to be coming from a lot of people who don't understand the OP's point of view and don't want to. Weirdly, they're experiencing the pressure as well. They just respond to it differently, directing it outward instead of inward.

Either way, Trials are a place where time/resource investment combine with the biggest problems Warframe has: speed of gameplay making it difficult to learn about the game, deficiencies in tutorials/affordances to teach the player, matchmaking/connectivity always threatening to flip the table, and people who can't (or won't) be compassionate about the struggles of people who really do want to be a useful teammate.

Let's take a look at some of the responses to this post in particular, and see if we can notice any patterns.

You the voice of suda or simaris :p
The only thing i understand in ur poem, and confirming it: I started as a rly rly bad leech no frames at all game mechanics rly at the lowest lvl. But there was a good host, he had some "safes" and gave a hug to me and few others.
It happens to me often when i see somebody spamming recruit i get like totally mad and once i did write one line in caps and got kicked. Then i realized the msg when u join.
Be respectful tenno.
So to say it doesn't matter if you find a host to hug u, or you are the host, show some respect the people that want to group up with u on your space ninja adventures.
i had some thing in mind to say but to keep it the most simple:
To be rich, you must be poor.
 

[--Q--uaint]

15 minutes ago, Forsaken. said:

Doesn’t work at all, just host it make some other leader get 2 dudes for trins, injectors, and one badass spore glitcher :p

Yes, but if no one you know can do those things, you don’t get to do the raid. I'd like to be actually good and not a leech :P

[oneforsaken]

Just now, ChronoEclipse said:

Yes, but if no one you know can do those things, you don’t get to do the raid. I'd like to be actually good and not a leech :P

Well we both will learn it after 5-10 more raids i think :3 I know the feeling on my own skin i hope for the best :D

[ErudiusNacht]

True, there are first timers who need to learn. True learning will not start unless you experience it. But everybody has to carry their weight.

But the thing is, LoR is a mission aimed for advanced players. Players who usually invest in LoR, or in any Raid or Trial in any game, has invested much into the game itself. Let's say you invest a lot on a venture and you watch it grow. After watching it take off, some new investor comes in and ruins everything. It is frustrating, and players, elitist or not, are humans and this will irritate most invested people.

That said, knowing there is a lot of gaps in educating new player (I mean, dang, newbies still punch life support at 98% these days in survival), it falls on everybody to prepare. Knowledgeable players could bring better stuff, or better yet, go do the support role. As for learning players, isn't it basically an issue of self-discipline to at least google, read the wiki or watch videos? 

I've met a lot of people, especially in the facebook fan groups of warframe, who cite lack of information resources regarding learning about the game. You'd see new players posting "what's a mod?", "how do I get Excal Prime?", "how do you rank up?" questions all day. If this is you, I'm saying this now, it may hurt, yes, but you're just lazy. If you can play warframe, you most certainly have a platform that can open a browser and have an internet connection, that's all you need to be informed.

I'm an older player, more than a decade ago, we had to rely on sifting through community forums and discussions to get info on our MMO's. But now, you can even google your family ancestry. Wikis weren't that helpful before, but now, anything that has a following has its own page. Now, youtubers will practically spoonfeed you information. If you go into a mission and feel inadequate about your contributions, you don't have anyone else to blame but yourself.

As for the toxicity of other players, bear in mind that this game international. It's simple, what is offensive to you might just be casual to the other party's culture. Don't let it stress you, let them stress themselves and move on. Just keep the important people close and ignore everybody else, in warframe and in real life.

As for the Trials, I suggest DE make a spawn room on every stage that only opens once all players are loaded in and press ready. This way, you can properly wait for others to load and everybody has to wait to hear the leader make a mission briefing / game plan / tutorial. I know this opens up opportunities for griefing, but the benefits outweigh the risks. You can even put in a tutorial module in the spawn area.

Edited March 25, 2016 by ErudiusNacht

[Basdiow]

10 minutes ago, ErudiusNacht said:

True, there are first timers who need to learn. True learning will not start unless you experience it. But everybody has to carry their weight.

But the thing is, LoR is a mission aimed for advanced players. Players who usually invest in LoR, or in any Raid or Trial in any game, has invested much into the game itself. Let's say you invest a lot on a venture and you watch it grow. After watching it take off, some new investor comes in and ruins everything. It is frustrating, and players, elitist or not, are humans and this will irritate most invested people.

That said, knowing there is a lot of gaps in educating new player (I mean, dang, newbies still punch life support at 98% these days in survival), it falls on everybody to prepare. Knowledgeable players could bring better stuff, or better yet, go do the support role. As for learning players, isn't it basically an issue of self-discipline to at least google, read the wiki or watch videos? 

I've met a lot of people, especially in the facebook fan groups of warframe, who cite lack of information resources regarding learning about the game. You'd see new players posting "what's a mod?", "how do I get Excal Prime?", "how do you rank up?" questions all day. If this is you, I'm saying this now, it may hurt, yes, but you're just lazy. If you can play warframe, you most certainly have a platform that can open a browser and have an internet connection, that's all you need to be informed.

I'm an older player, more than a decade ago, we had to rely on sifting through community forums and discussions to get info on our MMO's. But now, you can even google your family ancestry. Wikis weren't that helpful before, but now, anything that has a following has its own page. Now, youtubers will practically spoonfeed you information. If you go into a mission and feel inadequate about your contributions, you don't have anyone else to blame but yourself.

As for the toxicity of other players, bear in mind that this game international. It's simple, what is offensive to you might just be casual to the other party's culture. Don't let it stress you, let them stress themselves and move on. Just keep the important people close and ignore everybody else, in warframe and in real life.

As for the Trials, I suggest DE make a spawn room on every stage that only opens once all players are loaded in and press ready. This way, you can properly wait for others to load and everybody has to wait to hear the leader make a mission briefing / game plan / tutorial. I know this opens up opportunities for griefing, but the benefits outweigh the risks. You can even put in a tutorial module in the spawn area.

If that is so, then why do we go to schools when we can just find all the information online?

[Truth]

Yeah, it's tough. Sorry about your bad experience. I've been doing LoR's since they were first introduced almost a year ago now. (I think I've racked up over 100 LoR's at this point, not including NM or Jordas Verdicts.) I have to admit, there have been times where I've been frustrated with newer players not knowing what they were doing or why they were doing it, rendering the mission a long painstaking struggle to finish. However, I've also run into people who are similar to Player A in this case, blindly yelling through chat or sometimes through their mic at the player creating the snafu. I highly object to this kind of treatment of new raiders - it's plainly unacceptable. However, you have to look at it through the eyes of the older player/regular and experienced raiders' eyes. As an extremely experienced raider, I usually run with a select group of people I've created relationships with through doing so many of these raids together. Generally speaking, most regular raiders also have the same kind of group with which they exclusively run these raids. However, sometimes(more often for certain people) part of a regular raid group can be indisposed so the party leader will have to resort to inviting a random person from the sacred recruiting chat. I'm guessing that's what happened in your experience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but people who usually have to invite a random person from recruiting chat automatically think lesser of that person than him/herself and the rest of the squad they're experienced with. Therefore, a degree of negativity is automatically directed at them when something goes awry, while hell-fire-fueled rage, fury, and hate will be called down upon them if god forbid they screw up - which they will, it's their first time for pete's sake. Alright, I'm done babbling, to the point: Try to accumulate a group of friends (maybe people who you've been playing with for a long time) and try to run a raid with them. Hopefully you have a higher level friend who's experience with the LoR that can help you and your friends out. Personally, I had some higher level amigos to help me out when I first started learning this stuff. Most importantly, just don't give up and keep trying. It takes a lot of work and effort to actually become a good and efficient raider. Good luck to you and your friends.

 

[oneforsaken]

8 minutes ago, Basdiow said:

If that is so, then why do we go to schools when we can just find all the information online?

Well mate sorry for quoting u again. But school is unless. Gives u the basics to read and write and some stuff that's a must. Even some lies.
So to say some parts of the school are rly needed but i went 12 years in school. And had no benefit on finishing it, will never find the job that i went for. I did teach myself everything, most stuff online. Now i'm your 3rd class advertiser with a loan that ranges from 500 to 1k $. School didn't gave me that. I did learn it on my own (mostly online).
Sing up for a life school, and learn foreign languages, be curious but not annoying, work hard = nice life.
One more disclamer thing:
This is not the ideal scenario, you gonna go to med school for a doc etc, we all can't be the same profession. But however there is much stuff online. I Obtained most of my knowledge there.

[Basdiow]

3 minutes ago, Forsaken. said:

Well mate sorry for quoting u again. But school is unless. Gives u the basics to read and write and some stuff that's a must. Even some lies.
So to say some parts of the school are rly needed but i went 12 years in school. And had no benefit on finishing it, will never find the job that i went for. I did teach myself everything, most stuff online. Now i'm your 3rd class advertiser with a loan that ranges from 500 to 1k $. School didn't gave me that. I did learn it on my own (mostly online).
Sing up for a life school, and learn foreign languages, be curious but not annoying, work hard = nice life.
One more disclamer thing:
This is not the ideal scenario, you gonna go to med school for a doc etc, we all can't be the same profession. But however there is much stuff online. I Obtained most of my knowledge there.

...I was being internet sarcastic, sorry.

I was trying to tell him that, although videos and that such can help, you need to go to school (mission) and be taught by teachers (experienced players) to understand how to do everything fully.

[oneforsaken]

3 minutes ago, Basdiow said:

...I was being internet sarcastic, sorry.

I was trying to tell him that, although videos and that such can help, you need to go to school (mission) and be taught by teachers (experienced players) to understand how to do everything fully.

Oh than it's my bad mate we went off topic so i try to fill the gaps with valuable info, sorry rly, i meant to say it to be of use and to tell my own exp as example :)

[undernown]

In my opinion LoR is just badly designed at the 2nd stage. I get that they're having you test your group coordination, but the margin for error is almost not. If one guy steps on the wrong pad, or forgets using his ability for a bit to long, you have to start all over again. During the whole of warframe play, this is the only part in the game where you're forced to be a sitting duck while enemies creep up on you from all sides. Also even if you're doing everything right, one sneaky scorpion gets a hook off and your screwed. It just heightens stresslvl's, you feel constantly on your toe's that something will go wrong and screw up the whole thing. Add to that the factor of 8 people not being asllowed to make a mistake while their stressed out, its no wonder why people act so venomously when it goes wrong. It's not an excuse, but i sure do understand their frustration.

I had a far more fun doing the Jordas Verdict blindly, then i did going in to LoR fully prepared. Jordas Verdict has the right balance of difficulty and margin for error in my opinion. And most importantly i never felt as stressed as i felt when going through LoR.

A game is supposed to be fun, challenging but enjoyable, a escape from the stresses of daily life so you can unwind. If a game starts giving me stress, whats the point?
If you mess up in a game like Dark Souls, DmC, or any other tough action game with serious difficulty, you fail sometimes but it feels fair in those game. you're like ":poop: I messed up. Let's try again."
When you fail in LoR because either the Loki was a bit to late on the disarm and a bombard fired it's rocket, or a scorpion slips through and blindsided one of your teammates with a scorpion hook he couldn't react to in time. It does NOT feel fair. This is what makes it so frustrating. The key of good difficulty and fake or bad difficulty is the fairness factor. If a player feels cheated.. well do i need to explain? Everyone has met some hacker screwing up everyone else's game by using cheats or hacks. We've all been there, we all know it sucks donkey balls.

It also should have been a flaming red beacon for DE by now that the 8-pad mechanic has problems. It's the only stage raid's fail at, it's the only place that brings forth all this file acidic hatred. Yes you hear people about the "Escort the core" part but you don't need all full 8 members standing still for that and usualy goes by without a hich from my experience. How DE hasn't noticed this problem with the LoR yet is beyond me, but yes it needs a slight rework of some kind. It's the only part i ever failed on with my raids and it's what keeps me away from LoR till this day. If you keep failing the LoR for 2 weeks straight because of that frustrating part you'd be burned out to. (I don't care who's fault it is, yes there were trolls, yes there were players new to the raid, yes we quite one time cause we were trying it for over 2 hours straight, yes I might have messed up once or twice, but 14 consecutive failures is just to much. By that point it's not the players fault any more.)

P.S. "Haha scrub! git gud" say this and I say get a freaking life, also 1V1 me T4 survival M8! i'l r3kt U with with 0b3ron master race!

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, ErudiusNacht said:

True, there are first timers who need to learn. True learning will not start unless you experience it. But everybody has to carry their weight.

But the thing is, LoR is a mission aimed for advanced players. Players who usually invest in LoR, or in any Raid or Trial in any game, has invested much into the game itself. Let's say you invest a lot on a venture and you watch it grow. After watching it take off, some new investor comes in and ruins everything. It is frustrating, and players, elitist or not, are humans and this will irritate most invested people.

That said, knowing there is a lot of gaps in educating new player (I mean, dang, newbies still punch life support at 98% these days in survival), it falls on everybody to prepare. Knowledgeable players could bring better stuff, or better yet, go do the support role. As for learning players, isn't it basically an issue of self-discipline to at least google, read the wiki or watch videos? 

I've met a lot of people, especially in the facebook fan groups of warframe, who cite lack of information resources regarding learning about the game. You'd see new players posting "what's a mod?", "how do I get Excal Prime?", "how do you rank up?" questions all day. If this is you, I'm saying this now, it may hurt, yes, but you're just lazy. If you can play warframe, you most certainly have a platform that can open a browser and have an internet connection, that's all you need to be informed.

I'm an older player, more than a decade ago, we had to rely on sifting through community forums and discussions to get info on our MMO's. But now, you can even google your family ancestry. Wikis weren't that helpful before, but now, anything that has a following has its own page. Now, youtubers will practically spoonfeed you information. If you go into a mission and feel inadequate about your contributions, you don't have anyone else to blame but yourself.

As for the toxicity of other players, bear in mind that this game international. It's simple, what is offensive to you might just be casual to the other party's culture. Don't let it stress you, let them stress themselves and move on. Just keep the important people close and ignore everybody else, in warframe and in real life.

As for the Trials, I suggest DE make a spawn room on every stage that only opens once all players are loaded in and press ready. This way, you can properly wait for others to load and everybody has to wait to hear the leader make a mission briefing / game plan / tutorial. I know this opens up opportunities for griefing, but the benefits outweigh the risks. You can even put in a tutorial module in the spawn area.

It looks like there's a lot of Effort Justification here. I'm certainly not going to say that you're wrong for wanting players to make an effort, but you have to bear in mind that a lot of what you went through "in the old days" resulted from limitations in theory and technology.

We simply didn't have the robust body of game design theory back then, and it wasn't always obvious how we should go about teaching players. In addition, the technology often just wasn't there when it came to designing learning-friendly experiences. Whether we're talking about memory/processing requirements or connection quality/bandwidth necessary to transfer any necessary information in a timely manner, the games just weren't capable of presenting all that stuff to the player - even if they wanted to.

To me, it's a question of progress. It's a question of how the medium has matured. We can do better now than to make players dig through external source material dumped in a half-dozen different places. Rather than say "look it up on your own because I had to," we should be wanting to give a better experience to successive generations of players.

My question to DE would be this: Why not provide a "simulation" version of these Trials, where players can learn how the mission works without needing to burn a key every time or even necessarily field a full group. You can give the simulation key an appropriate build requirement, since it only makes sense that this would be a reusable item. There won't be any loot, obviously, but new players would now have a space where they could learn without the pressures of the real thing.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

5 hours ago, Forsaken. said:

Doesn't work at all, just host it make some other leader get 2 dudes for trins, injectors and one badass spore glitcher :p

Spore glitcher?

[oneforsaken]

51 minutes ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Spore glitcher?

 

Well that's some ingame term that i made up, JV ppl know it but let's don't talk that loud out, pm me ingame for more details :)))

[-dicht.Amducias-]

1 minute ago, Forsaken. said:

 

Well that's some ingame term that i made up, JV ppl know it but let's don't talk that loud out, pm me ingame for more details :)))

Can i pm you on the forums instead? Cuz i cant get ingame now :D

[oneforsaken]

6 minutes ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Can i pm you on the forums instead? Cuz i cant get ingame now :D

well won't share it here it's some small thing not rly big of a deal ;)

[notlamprey]

29 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

 I already have to deal with half-wits and morons who come spitting fire and threatening to cut my throat open because they've got poorly controlled diabetes and we need to take their ulcerated and gangrenous leg off at the knee.

You seem to have some amount of experience with this, possibly because of how hard you're working to invite it. I can at least take comfort in the assurance that your exalted intellect will almost certainly one day succeed in working out how to unburden itself of all that cumbersome self-seriousness. Really, darling, it's no way to go through life.

 

[Misgenesis]

You werent to blame, everyone was new at LoR at some point and i think you shouldnt have to look up (or spoil essentially) what to do in it beforehand.

I mean really, part of the experience is figuring out the stuff on your own. Its not your fault if someone else cant keep their cool because youre new.

[-CM-Emptiness]

20 hours ago, Calwon5 said:

I was one of the bunch of players that didn't learn how to do LoR when it first came out. Thus, I had to find some way to learn how to do it. I didn't have friends, nor do I have people in the clan to teach me. So I did something extraordinary, I went on youtube and watched some videos on it. Wow..... it didn't really help at all. So I joined a raid and follow through with it. Of course, I acted like I knew what I was doing by picking the right frames, doing the right actions, and following what players are doing. By the time I finished my first raid, I have learned all the things that I need to know in order to do it even more efficiently next time. This is all accomplished by myself, no one wanted to help a player that had no experience in the LoR, so we have to launch ourselves into the unknown. Honestly, theres no way of actually learning how things work without experiencing it yourself. The videos for me, didn't work so I had to jump right in with what I got from the videos. Then I tried to help my friends, but its hard to host a LoR while trying to teach new players. So you just try your best and tell them what to do, while trying your best to stay composed. No matter what rank you are or how long you've played, each of one of us have gone through that experience. So sometimes we need to remind ourselves of that before blaming things on the new players.

TL:DR: My first experience in the raid was tough, but I learned everything with one run through. It's hard to get the experience needed to do the LoR because no one is willing to teach new players how to do it. Thus, everyone should remind themselves of when they were in the same position as the new players.

 

 

Sorry for backtracking a fair bit, but to quote you on that, when you say "The videos for me, didn't work so I had to jump right in with what I got from the videos." I assume that you did in fact learn something from those videos, and that they at least served some purpose. Say, which frames to pick and abilities to use for your first raid. One quite big issue that can be solved through this is the interpretation of what a 'bless' is. If you're lucky enough to see the raid from a bless perspective, you interpret it as what it should be, self-damage, long duration invulnerability. Most likely, those who pick the role of bless and then come into the raid doing 33% reduction, go in without any idea of the raid. Its not a big deal if you restart early, but it certainly saves the trouble of reforming groups and educating people on the roles of frames themselves. That being said, I do believe first experience holds best in learning the more nitty gritty mechanics, but understanding the basics of frames etc by watching guides before going in helps both parties to make a successful raid and learning experience. 

[CorerMaximus]

Wow, this thread really blew up, and after reading all of your comments (thanks for participating by the way, its really interesting to learn of the different fields of thought going on to this problem), I wanted to input my own two cents here as well.

A major theme across some posts were that the veterans should guide players, as in they have a duty to do so. I wanted to assert my own opinion, in that I disagree with this- no one should be forced to help a new comer if they don't want to, its the veterans own time and what they decide to do in it is up to them. They aren't obligated and should not feel obligated to or be forced to help someone if they don't want to, that would result in more hatred for newcomers as you've made them take up a responsibility as to do a task in what one can only assume to be their own leisure time. In the context of my post however, the situation was different- the veteran player knew I didn't know about LoR but looked down upon me despite knowing that I didn't know about it and asserting that they would explain me what to do- this is more a case of belittling and being egoistic, which is a wholly different issue from the responsibility of veteran players we seem to be discussing in this thread.

Another major point was that newcomers should read a wiki and watch videos- I agree with this, but to a certain extent. Aside from problems such as the newcomer not enjoying the video format of the YouTuber or having a learning deficiency which may throw reading long wikis away, it's not fun to see or read and having to memorize instructions from an external force- in a game, the player is in control of the charachter and its first hand knowledge that really sticks after multiple runs- having them having to resort wholly to a wiki or YouTube video means this knowledge they possess is second hand, and takes away the ability to effectively teach other newcomers who haven't read it. In the case of me, I do agree to a certain extent that reading a Wiki would have benefited me, but I and my other teammates approached this quest knowing I didn't know about the LoR. 

In light of this, I believe it may be both mine and the veterans players fault as to the circumstances under which the mission was conducted. In conclusion, I believe it may be everyones responsibility to help circumnavigate this issue- newcomers to do a bit of research (but one may ask, where can I find an easy to follow guide, and this is something I don't know the answer to yet, despite seeing a couple of videos), the older players to be polite (not patient, because once again, its their free time and they are not obligated to spend it helping others, and I support this decision), as well as DE to perhaps create a testing environment where newcomers can try this in a more laid back setting, or simply release a mini-guide or get started guide.

These are my own thoughts on this, feel free to disagree or agree, I'm keen on hearing your thoughts. Thanks for reading and participating in this discussion! :)

 

Edited March 26, 2016 by CorerMaximus

[-CM-Emptiness]

12 minutes ago, CorerMaximus said:

Wow, this thread really blew up, and after reading all of your comments (thanks for participating by the way, its really interesting to learn of the different fields of thought going on to this problem), I wanted to input my own two cents here as well.

A major theme across some posts were that the veterans should guide players, as in they have a duty to do so. I wanted to assert my own opinion, in that I disagree with this- no one should be forced to help a new comer if they don't want to, its the veterans own time and what they decide to do in it is up to them. They aren't obligated and should not feel obligated to or be forced to help someone if they don't want to, that would result in more hatred for newcomers as you've made them take up a responsibility as to do a task in what one can only assume to be their own leisure time. In the context of my post however, the situation was different- the veteran player knew I didn't know about LoR but looked down upon me despite knowing that I didn't know about it and asserting that they would explain me what to do- this is more a case of belittling and being egoistic, which is a wholly different issue from the responsibility of veteran players we seem to be discussing in this thread.

Another major point was that newcomers should read a wiki and watch videos- I agree with this, but to a certain extent. Aside from problems such as the newcomer not enjoying the video format of the YouTuber or having a learning deficiency which may throw reading long wikis away, it's not fun to see or read and having to memorize instructions from an external force- in a game, the player is in control of the charachter and its first hand knowledge that really sticks after multiple runs- having them having to resort wholly to a wiki or YouTube video means this knowledge they possess is second hand, and takes away the ability to effectively teach other newcomers who haven't read it. In the case of me, I do agree to a certain extent that reading a Wiki would have benefited me, but I and my other teammates approached this quest knowing I didn't know about the LoR. 

In light of this, I believe it may be both mine and the veterans players fault as to the circumstances under which the mission was conducted. In conclusion, I believe it may be everyones responsibility to help circumnavigate this issue- newcomers to do a bit of research (but one may ask, where can I find an easy to follow guide, and this is something I don't know the answer to yet, despite seeing a couple of videos), the older players to be polite (not patient, because once again, its their free time and they are not obligated to spend it helping others, and I support this decision), as well as DE to perhaps create a testing environment where newcomers can try this in a more laid back setting, or simply release a mini-guide or get started guide.

These are my own thoughts on this, feel free to disagree or agree, I'm keen on hearing your thoughts. Thanks for reading and participating in this discussion! :)

 

Good summary. You may not have commented on new players not following instructions, which is a personal issue I come across, however, everything else I completely agree :D 

PS. A little in doubt about the learning deficiency part lel.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

The only thing "stopping" you is your own mentality. Have you done the jordas verdict raid? because you would need to watch 4 different videos multiple times to figure out how to destroy the nerve endings and even then it would take cooperation and teamwork as that place is confusing. Cooperation and teamwork is something you don't have. 

 

Your mentality is what causes most raids to fail. It only takes 1 person forgetting something or a scorpion pulling a player off a button to fail a raid. You would beat more raids if you actually tried to work with your teammates, something you refuse to do. Some people don't learn from watching guides as they only learn what to do if they were that person. For example watching a video about what a Nova is supposed to do in LoR is many times different then what a loki would do, considering loki's are usually the bomb runners. Same with the Jordas raid. You could watch a whole video on Spore duty for the Jordas raid and 4 different nerve videos and when you actually do the raid, its still a complete mess. I hope raid squads actively avoid your toxicity. 

 

Meanwhile ill raid with anyone as long as they are willing to listen and I'm running out of syndanas to turn into arcanes

[PickleMonster21]

14 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Well you never know if you don't try. If you follow and fail then no one is to blame. But that's only looking at one perspective. Other groups have new players who don't follow instructions, and that results in a failure. Take those arrogant attitudes and ask yourself, what if they had learnt from a video beforehand? Well, theoretically speaking, if they had done so, following others instructions or following their own would have yielded the same outcome nonetheless, and we would not have had to go through all that time of educating them to no end.

Those types of players are something else, but I don't think even 75% of new people who come to do big missions like LoR won't follow given instructions. The minority of new players seems to bring out the worst in experienced LoR players (as shown throughout this Thread), and the majority cops it.
 

14 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

What it is is joining a mission and not only being completely useless, but actually slowing down the run and getting in the way of everyone else. Phobos sabotage got nothing to do with lor where you go with 7 other ppl. Then you waste everyones time for example in big room with platforms because you "learn by experience" Aka. I didnt even bother to read about it or watch guide. In the end entire run takes 20 min longer than it should because of lazy guy like you, damn i wonder why it brings the worst in people.

If you join a raid without preparing in any way you join it to leech, therefore you got no right to complain.

Well I mean hey. If you want an experienced team, run your own key with an experienced lobby. But if you were to join my lobby with say 2 new (to LoR) people, then you'll have to put up with and help out (potentially, if you're so bent on how long the mission takes) with guiding and helping. Otherwise, there's simply no room for people who only care about experienced players, how fast a run is and whether or not someone watched a video beforehand.

[Ryunokage]

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The only thing "stopping" you is your own mentality. Have you done the jordas verdict raid? because you would need to watch 4 different videos multiple times to figure out how to destroy the nerve endings and even then it would take cooperation and teamwork as that place is confusing. Cooperation and teamwork is something you don't have. 

 

Your mentality is what causes most raids to fail. It only takes 1 person forgetting something or a scorpion pulling a player off a button to fail a raid. You would beat more raids if you actually tried to work with your teammates, something you refuse to do. Some people don't learn from watching guides as they only learn what to do if they were that person. For example watching a video about what a Nova is supposed to do in LoR is many times different then what a loki would do, considering loki's are usually the bomb runners. Same with the Jordas raid. You could watch a whole video on Spore duty for the Jordas raid and 4 different nerve videos and when you actually do the raid, its still a complete mess. I hope raid squads actively avoid your toxicity. 

 

Meanwhile ill raid with anyone as long as they are willing to listen and I'm running out of syndanas to turn into arcanes

Did JV the day it came out, took us collectively 5 minutes to figure each each phase, took 3 runs to complete. First to farm anti-serum injector fragments to build the ASI, 2nd run bugged out, 3rd run ran the raid to completion.

We built the group according to a few rules: Everyone must display a reasonable command of the English language, have no signs of having relied on draco, and played warframe for an extensive period of time (we looked at event stats to look for participation and duration of time played). 5 of us were either doctors or final year medical students, the other 3 were recruited at random according to the afore mentioned rules.

Else, if videos are a poor medium, a person could still read guides, or at least have an idea of what to do. Though I fail to see how spore duty requires you to read a guide, given how that task is a simple "get objective from point to point" while your team-mates provide cover and open the way. WRT to Loki and Nova in LoR, i'd expect someone to apply a modicum of thought to the problem and realize their role differs depending on the frame that they're playing not to mention the build they're required to take.

The people I regularly raid with try their best to avoid incompetent players, and while I do occasionally PUG, I've made it imminently clear from the start what my standards are and how to meet them. I've provided them all the information a reasonable person would need to make an informed decision before participating in a raid about to start, which as far as I'm concerned, fulfils my ethical obligations.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Trials (raids) are basically one of end game modes (alongside sorties) it is meant for advanced players...dont expect it to be easy, it requires a knowledge about the game mechanics, the frames, & coordinated teamwork, which means if one of you messed up, the whole team messed up. The I-will-do-anything-to-win attitude is needed in this game mode, that include listening to other players, pushing aside your ego, watching videos & reading wiki, etc,etc. Basically if one still has to complain about difficulties, bad peoples, about things that they need to do seems too much, then theyre not ready for this game mode. Remember, you can only do trial once a day. Is once a day still too much?

Edited March 26, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

16 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

Did JV the day it came out, took us collectively 5 minutes to figure each each phase, took 3 runs to complete. First to farm anti-serum injector fragments to build the ASI, 2nd run bugged out, 3rd run ran the raid to completion.

We built the group according to a few rules: Everyone must display a reasonable command of the English language, have no signs of having relied on draco, and played warframe for an extensive period of time (we looked at event stats to look for participation and duration of time played). 5 of us were either doctors or final year medical students, the other 3 were recruited at random according to the afore mentioned rules.

Else, if videos are a poor medium, a person could still read guides, or at least have an idea of what to do. Though I fail to see how spore duty requires you to read a guide, given how that task is a simple "get objective from point to point" while your team-mates provide cover and open the way. WRT to Loki and Nova in LoR, i'd expect someone to apply a modicum of thought to the problem and realize their role differs depending on the frame that they're playing not to mention the build they're required to take.

The people I regularly raid with try their best to avoid incompetent players, and while I do occasionally PUG, I've made it imminently clear from the start what my standards are and how to meet them. I've provided them all the information a reasonable person would need to make an informed decision before participating in a raid about to start, which as far as I'm concerned, fulfils my ethical obligations.

Really? Cause according to this, you failed the first 5 tries of the Raid.

http://wf.christx.tw/JordasSearch.php?id=Ryunokage

So tell me, What went wrong the first 5 attempts? cause i'm sure without a shadow of a doubt that if somebody explained it to you. You could have beaten it.