Why do nullifiers still exist?

[Genoscythe]

13 hours ago, kubbi said:

This is actually happening lmao

Miter augment mod mentioned in the devstream that can pop nullifier bubble instantly *facepalm*

Call me prophet.

[xmegarockx]

we have to live with it because the game is too easy.

[GrimAtrament]

honestly the only adjustment the nulifiers need is to allow punch through to go through there bubble 

[Xzorn]

20 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

Going into the bubble works just fine. I do that as Saryn which has even less EHP. (NOTE: I don't use QT)

You just have to be fast.

 

I'm seriously just tired of this excuse.

 

15 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

You stick to whatever weapon you heart desires. After all, that's the wonderful part about this game. Choice.

 

Are you serious?  That couldn't be farther from the truth if it was in Orbit.

 

[Rambit23Z]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

I'm seriously just tired of this excuse.

It works for me, if it doesn't work for you, well not anything I can do about that.

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Are you serious?  That couldn't be farther from the truth if it was in Orbit.

I can bring my Vulkar Waraith and be decently effective long during void-missions. If you want to go above level 80 and such, of course you're gonna need the better equipment, but that does not remove choice.

[Troll_Logic]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I'm seriously just tired of this excuse.

It's not an excuse.  It's a strategy to deal with them.

[AsIsWritten]

-looks at my 3 hour solo T4 Survival run with a Limbo- Yah, nullies arent the problem IMO

[akira_him]

1 hour ago, bbeeaann said:

       How do you plan on making the sniper rifle, which is slow in its application, relevant in a fast paced shooter? Can you please explain how you plan on doing this? You want Warframe to be a sniper game, and it isn't a sniper game. It has sniper weapons, but sniper weapons aren't the best choice of weapons in this game. Sniper rifles are only pointless and useless to players who refuse to adapt to the game they are playing. DE isn't going to slow the pace down of their game. Want to know why? Because it would destroy everything they've built over the last three years. DE isn't going to remove Nullifiers from the game, nor are they going to nerf their bubbles so that snipers can one shot their bubbles. Want to know why? Because that would imbalance the game that has issues that need addressing in other areas. Learn to adapt. Learn to get inside the bubble. Stop being stuck in this frame of mind that says if I have a sniper rifle I should be the most powerful in a mission; even in reality this isn't factual. It isn't the weapon that's powerful. It's the intellect of the individual using the weapon that's powerful.

there are things that need to be addressed to the no-brain ability spam problem, but the current nullifiers' state definitely isn't the proper way to fix the no-brain problem, because it just pushes towards another no-brain playstyle.

[Vifany]

Yup, Nullifiers are badly designed. Everybody know it, but to many people don't want to admit this. Corpus have beautifully designed Comba and Scrambus with disrupting auras.
So if my opinion means something I vote for nullifiers rework. Maybe field should be less durable. Or be instantly removed while warframe steps into it disrupting abilities of that warframe for a few second.
P.S.
Sorry for my Ingrish.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Vifany

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

On 3/25/2016 at 0:51 PM, Sakatchi said:

I have a plan. We stab the nullifer.

I have been but there are like 100 of them on this one map alone! GODDAMN IT!

[Sakatchi]

5 hours ago, P0TAT0CANN0N said:

I have been but there are like 100 of them on this one map alone! GODDAMN IT!

Oh S#&$. You need two swords for this.

 

[Xzorn]

16 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

It works for me, if it doesn't work for you, well not anything I can do about that.

I can bring my Vulkar Waraith and be decently effective long during void-missions. If you want to go above level 80 and such, of course you're gonna need the better equipment, but that does not remove choice.

 

Yea, you could actually help me with that. Simply supply proof that melee against a Nullifier posse past lvl 80 won't 90% of the time get you killed. Just cuz you can get lucky a few times doesn't mean it's a good solution nor does it mean Nullifers have a good design.

Using a Sniper outside of being the "designated heavy killer" in a structured group will never be "decent" in my book. The only role Snipers have in this game is to take out High Level key targets in group play ( which Nullifiers ruin ) ...or if you just like wasting time getting horrible kill counts and spending x10 longer to complete anything.

 

You can play with whatever you want but saying it's a choice is highly misleading. 

If I give you the choice of taking 3 hours to get an item you want or 30minutes, Which would you choose? It's a choice, but is it a fair one?

This game punishes you for using a weapon you like over effectiveness. If it were close I wouldn't mind but it's nowhere near.

 

15 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

It's not an excuse.  It's a strategy to deal with them.

 

Giving up your cover and or position to go running toward a horde of enemies wielding guns is called a bad strategy.

The excuse part comes when you continue to try and verify that strategy as working beyond the point when it no longer does.

 

[Troll_Logic]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Giving up your cover and or position to go running toward a horde of enemies wielding guns is called a bad strategy.

The excuse part comes when you continue to try and verify that strategy as working beyond the point when it no longer does.

It's a strategy.  Not the strategy.  If you want to sit back behind cover and shoot them, feel free.  Sometimes that's best.

[Rambit23Z]

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Yea, you could actually help me with that. Simply supply proof that melee against a Nullifier posse past lvl 80 won't 90% of the time get you killed. Just cuz you can get lucky a few times doesn't mean it's a good solution nor does it mean Nullifers have a good design.

It's worked since the introduction of Nullifiers. Something important (that most people ignore when melee-ing) is to block. It increases your survivability tenfold.

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

You can play with whatever you want but saying it's a choice is highly misleading. 

If I give you the choice of taking 3 hours to get an item you want or 30minutes, Which would you choose? It's a choice, but is it a fair one?

This game punishes you for using a weapon you like over effectiveness. If it were close I wouldn't mind but it's nowhere near.

Assuming the 3 hours where the sniper and the 30 minutes where the Tonkor/Simulor, then yes I would. I ranked the Tonkor and Simulor up to 30 and never touched them again. As long as I'm having fun, it's fine.

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Giving up your cover and or position to go running toward a horde of enemies wielding guns is called a bad strategy.

The excuse part comes when you continue to try and verify that strategy as working beyond the point when it no longer does.

Again, as I said, blocking. Also, what Troll_Logic said. It's my strategy, I've been melee-ing since U6 and as such this is my preferred strategy. It might not work for you, in which case there are other ways.

[akira_him]

7 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

It's worked since the introduction of Nullifiers. Something important (that most people ignore when melee-ing) is to block. It increases your survivability tenfold.

Assuming the 3 hours where the sniper and the 30 minutes where the Tonkor/Simulor, then yes I would. I ranked the Tonkor and Simulor up to 30 and never touched them again. As long as I'm having fun, it's fine.

Again, as I said, blocking. Also, what Troll_Logic said. It's my strategy, I've been melee-ing since U6 and as such this is my preferred strategy. It might not work for you, in which case there are other ways.

back then when blocking was not only damage reduction but inmmunity, that was kind of worked but coptering was way batter, then both are removed, blocking now just give you roughly 60% to 85% damage reduction, which can totally kill you

Sure, there are other ways, like shotgun(totally makes sense to get close), automatics(no-brainer), and naramon(borderline cheat mode)

nullifiers is not adding challenge, it just take away gameplay options
Brusas, on the other hand are adding challenge(although you can argue it just force you to outflank it, which can be done by ALL weapons in the game)

[Rambit23Z]

7 minutes ago, akira_him said:

back then when blocking was not only damage reduction but inmmunity, that was kind of worked but coptering was way batter, then both are removed, blocking now just give  you roughly 60% to 85% damage reduction, which can totally kill you.

Back then it also took stamina, in any remotely high level (even around 60) you could block for about a second. It's way better now. And bear in mind, the small amount of damage that gets through gets further reduced by armour. Also, you want to actually parkour and evade shots. (possible while blocking) With the reduced accuracy the damage becomes pretty low. Also, flanking. Very important.

24 minutes ago, akira_him said:

Sure, there are other ways, like shotgun(totally makes sense to get close), automatics(no-brainer), and naramon(borderline cheat mode)

This is the point I'm trying to make, if melee doesn't work for some, there are other ways. (Such as perma-invis, bubble imune Naramon, If you dislike challenge)

25 minutes ago, akira_him said:

nullifiers is not adding challenge, it just take away gameplay options

Considering everything else can be made harmless with mass CC, a slow moving imunity field is okay.

25 minutes ago, akira_him said:

Brusas, on the other hand are adding challenge(although you can argue it just force you to outflank it, which can be done by ALL weapons in the game)

For the most part, I feel they require some bugfixes and tweaks. Because right now, they are very inconsistent and their threat being completely out of whack between the different variants.

[Rambit23Z]

12 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

You've been playing since before your account was created? That's pretty good.

You'll forgive me if I no longer believe a word you say.

Alright, I may have missed it by a few updates, but that's still 2 years and 10 months of melee focus. My point still stands.

[magusat999]

I think everybody who argues for keeping them like they are; everyone who says they are easy; everyone who says something along the lines of "just rush in there bubble and kill it"; should tell us what level and missions they are talking about. They should also be required to play 150 level Survival / T4 defense with a frame that relies on buffs / abilities to survive - like Loki. Now as Loki, go rushing into the bubble and show us what happened... At level 150 the Nullifier brings a whole nasty crew in that bubble... but go ahead... face the one shotters with an un-buffed Warframe.  The game should consider ALL frames in it's design. Not a specific frame or playstyle. If one of the frames can absolutely not succeed, then there is a problem. it is better that the game become easier to play than for it to become unplayable. We can figure out how to create challenge - we don't have to accept just ANYTHING.

[Rambit23Z]

1 minute ago, magusat999 said:

I think everybody who argues for keeping them like they are; everyone who says they are easy; everyone who says something along the lines of "just rush in there bubble and kill it"; should tell us what level and missions they are talking about. They should also be required to play 150 level Survival / T4 defense with a frame that relies on buffs / abilities to survive - like Loki. Now as Loki, go rushing into the bubble and show us what happened... At level 150 the Nullifier brings a whole nasty crew in that bubble... but go ahead... face the one shotters with an un-buffed Warframe.  The game should consider ALL frames in it's design. Not a specific frame or playstyle. If one of the frames can absolutely not succeed, then there is a problem. it is better that the game become easier to play than for it to become unplayable. We can figure out how to create challenge - we don't have to accept just ANYTHING.

The game is balanced roughly around 100. There's no requirement to go any higher. And again. Kill the Nullifier before they can gather enemies. Go to them instead of letting them come to you.

Also, as Loki, you can safely shoot the bubble while invisible.

[magusat999]

Just now, Rambit23Z said:

The game is balanced roughly around 100. There's no requirement to go any higher. And again. Kill the Nullifier before they can gather enemies. Go to them instead of letting them come to you.

Also, as Loki, you can safely shoot the bubble while invisible.

Did you read the OP? He mentioned level 150. The TOPIC is what this conversation is about, doesn't matter what you think the game is "balanced around". Nobody is talking about the "requirement to go higher", they are talking about the conditions when going higher - that point is irrelevant.

I guess you haven't played with high level Nullifiers (100+). They don't "gather" enemies, they show up with a group inside the bubble already, so there is no "Kill the Nullifier before they can gather enemies. Go to them instead of letting them come to you", because they are already there...  - and nobody said that anyway. Your quoting me but addressing things you read from other people.

Shooting the bubble of 10, 15, 20 Nullifiers at level 100+? Stand there and concentrate fire on that one bubble? What about the other bubbles? Are they just standing around waiting for you to get to them? Should we hand out bakery tabs and put up a number sign so they can know when you are ready for them too? And which one are you suggesting - "Go to them instead of letting them come to you..." OR "safely shoot the bubble while invisible" - sounds conflicting.

[Rambit23Z]

2 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

Did you read the OP? He mentioned level 150. The TOPIC is what this conversation is about, doesn't matter what you think the game is "balanced around". Nobody is talking about the "requirement to go higher", they are talking about the conditions when going higher - that point is irrelevant.

That's like saying level 500 bombards are unbalanced and need to be nerfed.

3 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

I guess you haven't played with high level Nullifiers (100+). They don't "gather" enemies, they show up with a group inside the bubble already, so there is no "Kill the Nullifier before they can gather enemies. Go to them instead of letting them come to you", because they are already there...

 

If you get there quick enough, then they'll barely have enemies in them. That's what I've been doing all this time.

5 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

Shooting the bubble of 10, 15, 20 Nullifiers at level 100+? Stand there and concentrate fire on that one bubble? What about the other bubbles? Are they just standing around waiting for you to get to them?

Letting them clump up is not wise.

23 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

And which one are you suggesting - "Go to them instead of letting them come to you..." OR "safely shoot the bubble while invisible" - sounds conflicting.

Both, there are multiple strategies. Pick the one that fits your loadout and playstyle. There is no one answer to every problem. (Except Naramon, I don't like it, but it's there)

[akira_him]

19 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

That's like saying level 500 bombards are unbalanced and need to be nerfed.

If you get there quick enough, then they'll barely have enemies in them. That's what I've been doing all this time.

Letting them clump up is not wise.

Both, there are multiple strategies. Pick the one that fits your loadout and playstyle. There is no one answer to every problem. (Except Naramon, I don't like it, but it's there)

But he is saying they spawn with/in the middle the group of enemy, it is not about wise or not, the clumped up group just appeared form nowhere
like today's sortie 3

And multiple strategies doesn't mean it is ok to make a whole class not suitable to bring in a mission, we are talking about why snipers have to be crap

Edited April 7, 2016 by akira_him

[Rambit23Z]

Just now, akira_him said:

But he is saying they spawn with/in the middle the group of enemy, it is not about wise or not, the clumped up group just appeared for nowhere
like today's sortie 3

I played that Sortie and had no problems taking out Nullifiers before they huddled together. That only happened when I needed to revive someone. And there are still strategies for when they huddle together. Jump above them and slam attack for knockdown works very well.

3 minutes ago, akira_him said:

And multiple strategies doesn't mean it is ok to make a whole class not suitable to bring in a mission, we are talking about why snipers have to be crap

This topic is about Nullifiers though. And if all snipers had 5m punch-through then they'd be quite good.

[magusat999]

2 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

That's like saying level 500 bombards are unbalanced and need to be nerfed.

If you get there quick enough, then they'll barely have enemies in them. That's what I've been doing all this time.

Letting them clump up is not wise.

Both, there are multiple strategies. Pick the one that fits your loadout and playstyle. There is no one answer to every problem. (Except Naramon, I don't like it, but it's there)

If there is no one answer, why do you keep giving ONE ANSWER and pushing it so hard? And again - the enemies ALREADY COME CLUMPED inside the bubble. You cannot prevent it, there is nothing you can do to stop that. If you are talking about the low level Blue bubble boys, yeah, they do come individually - but not the high level yellow bubble boy - he comes with a pack, INSIDE the bubble already.

EDIT:

So tell me, how does your ONE strategy of running into one of the thousand overlapping bubbles - or even shooting them work here? What is your sage advice to the people in this video? lmao As a matter of fact, why don't you go message him at the Youtube channel and tell him how to do it "right"...lol

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by magusat999
Pertinent Info

[Rambit23Z]

1 hour ago, magusat999 said:

If there is no one answer, why do you keep giving ONE ANSWER and pushing it so hard? And again - the enemies ALREADY COME CLUMPED inside the bubble. You cannot prevent it, there is nothing you can do to stop that. If you are talking about the low level Blue bubble boys, yeah, they do come individually - but not the high level yellow bubble boy - he comes with a pack, INSIDE the bubble already.

I never said it was the only way. I simply came with a few suggestions. Whether you wan't to use them or not is entirely up to you.

1 hour ago, magusat999 said:

So tell me, how does your ONE strategy of running into one of the thousand overlapping bubbles - or even shooting them work here? What is your sage advice to the people in this video? lmao As a matter of fact, why don't you go message him at the Youtube channel and tell him how to do it "right"...lol

-Snip-

I'm talking about the regular Nullifier. You're gonna have to discuss these drones with someone else.