Every single use of the Overextended mod is degenerate and game ruining

[Inmemoratus]

7 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You yourself are not discussing, you are basically demanding people agree with your point by bringing up a lofty point and effectively abusing it to shut down valid rebuts.  There are only a couple of game modes where you don't need to kill things to still continue the mission. There isn't particularly anything wrong if that is the way you want to build your frame to deal with such a mission this is what min-maxing is for but it is not your only choice.

However the problem isn't overextend in of itself.  The problem is people's mindset in general and the amount of freedom you are given when moding. I can tell you exactly when the problem came to be and it was when the little item called "FORMA" came to be. Forma effectively lifted large restrictions on how we built our frames and weapons only driving min-maxing to degrees that I don't think DE even fully accounted for. Min-maxing in basically any game degenerates the game because of the simple fact that games aren't generally designed to deal with these extremes. Overextend can be used to save your range stat should you decide to use a Narrowmind.  The trade-off is Power Strength and in a game of CC that may or may not matter as much. If you are content using one skill then fine that is your choice however if you like to use a number of your skills overextend (and min-maxing a single skill as a whole) will hinder you to some extent.

Over the development of this game it should be clear that DE wanted this to be "a game of choices" for how you wish to experience it. People need to stop worrying how others want to play and take ownership of how they wish to experience it through the tools given to them.

PS Mirage should be "nerfed", if only to put Prism in its place. It's brother skill Radial Blind was made to be LoS for the exact same reason Prism is being abused right now.

PSS CC should have diminishing returns on all enemies in general if abused in small time frames.

People are making arguments based upon things that aren't true or things that do not matter.

No, there is no problem with peoples' "mindset". Mirage turns off all enemies on the map so they don't attack you. There isn't anything more effective than that. It also removes all gameplay and that is the problem with it.

Min-maxing doesn't have to lead to this. When you don't have Overextended there is no way to completely shut down every enemy on the map by yourself. You can't even cover all the spawns on Draco with 25 meter base range abilities without it.

 

6 hours ago, Brosephelon said:

This is incorrect.  They will not shoot, but they will still take some actions.  Mostly this consists of things like heavy gunners aoe ground slams, and similar type effects.  Blinded corpus mine laying douchebags will still lay mines.  I have seen blinded enemies shooting but I don't remember it ever being common.  

During the 1k cuts tactical alert recently I was playing Inaros a lot spamming his blind, the Bailiffs were consistently still ground slamming even while blinded with the blind particle effects still in there eyes.  

Blind is not a 100% stun/incapacitate, they can still take some actions but in general its pretty close to a full stun especially against basic enemies. 

It doesn't matter. Nobody goes near the guys that can ground slam because they get blinded far out of range. And the ground slam wouldn't matter when no enemies are attacking.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[LABAL]

I don't really like being a sarcastic jerk, but... Disregard that, I actually do: we all know that most degenerate player strategies rely on complaining about random stuff, ignoring the real problems like disproportionate experience, crazy damage scaling, power abuse (by enemies, no less!) and map generation so bad that ancient Greeks would be ashamed. That doesn't make me one of them only because these players are a real problem too.

[TeaBegging]

3 hours ago, Inmemoratus said:

People are making arguments based upon things that aren't true or things that do not matter.

No, there is no problem with peoples' "mindset". Mirage turns off all enemies on the map so they don't attack you. There isn't anything more effective than that. It also removes all gameplay and that is the problem with it.

Min-maxing doesn't have to lead to this. When you don't have Overextended there is no way to completely shut down every enemy on the map by yourself. You can't even cover all the spawns on Draco with 25 meter base range abilities without it.

 

It doesn't matter. Nobody goes near the guys that can ground slam because they get blinded far out of range. And the ground slam wouldn't matter when no enemies are attacking.

Why does mirage get all the hate, there are far better frames with tankier stats that can provide much better CC. Once agian it all depends on how you maintain those builds. Any frame can be 'degenarate" if modded correctly.

This is why we have limited slots, and strategies based upon our playstyle. Its a mindset that gives you a choice to get the best out the frame. This is what kept me entertained because off the diversity in modding. While many copy youtubers, I tend to search for my own builds and so far things have worked out great so far.

[Kletse]

Short answer, no it's not.

[YasaiTsume]

I hope yur kidding because if by "degenerate" yu mean larger range for CCing or damage then yur not making any sense. 

[letir]

Just like most corrupted mods. You trade mediocre debuff in least useful stat to get huge buff in needed one.

[dzxbeast]

12 hours ago, Inmemoratus said:

Enemies don't attack while blinded so who cares? Stop acting like these "downsides" matter.

i have no idea which game you are playing, but definitely not warframe.

blind in WARFRAME works like this:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Blind

i know, cause i used to run with blind excal and now from time to time with inaros.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

12 hours ago, TeaBegging said:

What I meant is if you specifically focus your entire build into one ability, you ganna sacrifice mods that keep you alive. Such as redirection/Vitalty. And Mirage been the squishy frame that she is. she Would require a solid defensive team member to carry her.

FYI you can slot redirection and vitality, max power efficiency and still get 250% power range and 133% duration. Of course strength will suffer. That's the balance. Since strength is ruined you have to rely on weapons for killing.

[Robm]

1 hour ago, TeaBegging said:

Why does mirage get all the hate, there are far better frames with tankier stats that can provide much better CC. Once agian it all depends on how you maintain those builds. Any frame can be 'degenarate" if modded correctly.

This is why we have limited slots, and strategies based upon our playstyle. Its a mindset that gives you a choice to get the best out the frame. This is what kept me entertained because off the diversity in modding. While many copy youtubers, I tend to search for my own builds and so far things have worked out great so far.

I only use Mirage on Interception. 

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

18 hours ago, Inmemoratus said:

I am really not a fan of nerfs but look... We all know that the most degenerate strategies rely on the Overextended mod to give powers ridiculous range. It's not Trinity. It's the fact that a frame can either stun or kill everything in a tile with a button press. There is no gameplay when enemies just stand there for the whole mission.

The way I see things going either DE is going to add more ways for enemies to ignore CC or they will nerf frames directly. Which is worse, either of those or just removing this stupid corrupted mod?

  Not really a problem with Overextended as much as abilities ignoring line-of-sight. I agree that Warframe CC is way too powerful, and balancing the game around it isn't a good idea, but calling people who use a mod "degenerates" is uncalled for.

  Removing a mod that gives options to Tenno because of a few broken abilities isn't a good idea IMO.

Edited March 30, 2016 by ImNotJellyAtAll

[Mr.Lube]

Corrupted mods were cool in theory, but they were executed in a horrible way. One of the worst additions to the game.

[Inmemoratus]

2 hours ago, ImNotJellyAtAll said:

  Not really a problem with Overextended as much as abilities ignoring line-of-sight. I agree that Warframe CC is way too powerful, and balancing the game around it isn't a good idea, but calling people who use a mod "degenerates" is uncalled for.

  Removing a mod that gives options to Tenno because of a few broken abilities isn't a good idea IMO.

I did not call the players who use it degenerate. I called the uses of it degenerate, but I can see how that could be interpreted that way.

I meant the common meta strategies that abuse it, mostly blindspam mirage and RJ excal.

I don't blame people for using whatever is the strongest strategy even if the strategy is completely degenerate.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[Inmemoratus]

6 hours ago, dzxbeast said:

i have no idea which game you are playing, but definitely not warframe.

blind in WARFRAME works like this:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Blind

i know, cause i used to run with blind excal and now from time to time with inaros.

Maybe there is a way to make them attack randomly but I haven't seen it. I've seen plenty of mirages playing the blind build and the enemies don't attack. It might simply be because the range is so crazy that the enemies aren't near enough to hear any attacks the players do, and also because players don't tend to bother shooting them since they don't need to.

This is what I mean when I say arguments are being made based on things that don't matter. Blind effectively stuns enemies, especially when you have access to so much power range.

 

8 hours ago, TeaBegging said:

Why does mirage get all the hate, there are far better frames with tankier stats that can provide much better CC. Once agian it all depends on how you maintain those builds. Any frame can be 'degenarate" if modded correctly.

This is why we have limited slots, and strategies based upon our playstyle. Its a mindset that gives you a choice to get the best out the frame. This is what kept me entertained because off the diversity in modding. While many copy youtubers, I tend to search for my own builds and so far things have worked out great so far.

Mirage gets hate because her blind build is overpowered. With max range her blind is so huge that you can fully cover any interception map, and you can secure huge areas on excavation without any effort. The enemies never attack and you don't need to kill any except for the power carriers on excavation.

It's not about picking a playstyle when you can prevent enemies from fighting in the first place.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[dzxbeast]

some skills have more than 1 effect. not sure about mirage, but excalibur's blind also has a stun effect. with enough energy you can keep your enemies stunlocked. this ability was so OP that devs nerfed it, and now it works only with LoS.

 

[(PSN)CANDER0US-0RD0-]

I don't see a problem with overextended mod,this game has far bigger problems than overextended,i disagree with removing or nerfing it

[[DE]Danielle]

Hey Tenno, unfortunately the thread got off to a rough start and does not seem to be headed into constructive discussions. Please insure that when you are posting and replying to feedback it follows these guidelines: 

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