Blind Mirage

[Madrox8]

I feel it is time to talk about the Blind mirage build and ill explain why I think it needs a nerf.

right now how a blind mirage works is the build goes for max range (265%), with this build the blind aspect of the disco ball of doom becomes the biggest flash grenade. now this itself is perfectly fine BUT with the current status on how the skill works on detnation is the blind aspect acts as an explosion, and with this explosion it does not deal damage but procs the blind. with the current set up in PvE explosions ignores walls thus with a huge range, everything in any room within the game currently gets blinded.

 

this build is most wanted within interceptions the most. camp the middle of the map, double tap 4 and wait 4 seconds. no one kills anything and you win with 0 effort, to me this is game-breaking and should definitely be looked into.

 

an idea I had on how to nerf this build but still be viable is have the ball do a 2 part on its explosion.

example: on detnation, 1 frame wait to then create a secondary explosion (no sound no effects just used to make a proc for blind) and has to check for line of sight of the enemy where the dentation area is, this way any walls or obstructions to the target will not be effected by the blind and in order to effectively cover the room you have to let the ball travel some distance before you dentate, thus requiring more skill to use then the double tap 4 to blind the map.

 

[EvilChaosKnight]

Yep, this is one of those rare cases when I am all for LOS for an AOE ability. I mean how can light even blind anyone without LOS to begin with? XD

[EmptyDevil]

I think they should apply a LoS to the blind, like Excalibur's Radial Blind. It gets annoying when you want enemies to kill, but you have this Mirage spam blinding everything through walls.

[letir]

Where is the LoS nerf when we need one?

Edited March 31, 2016 by letir

[Cray]

If we're going to talk about nerfing Mirage, we're gonna need a serious discussion on difficulty scaling in general.

[Madrox8]

1 minute ago, letir said:

There is the LoS nerf when we need one?

and we need one for this, it sounds like you have never played a match with a blind mirage build

[Sixty5]

Wait mirage has an ult?

I thought the only abilities she had were Hall of Mirrors and Eclipse 

 

But in all seriousness blinds should be line of sight. 

[Madrox8]

1 minute ago, DeltaPhantom said:

If we're going to talk about nerfing Mirage, we're gonna need a serious discussion on difficulty scaling in general.

the difficulty scaling is fine, this build literally skips out on mission types mostly dealing with mobile defence missions and interceptions. it prevents enemies from attacking or capturing the objective and if 0 people does a kill then no other enemies can spawn in unblended, so its just a timing game of standing there and hit 4 twice with the other party members cant just spam duck to dance around doing nothing

 

[MajorTurnip]

I'm all for LoS nerf but Mirage's blind spam is just an improvised measure to deal with ridiculous situations. 

Lvl 100 intercept is one of those ridiculous situations. 

[Madrox8]

56 minutes ago, MajorTurnip said:

I'm all for LoS nerf but Mirage's blind spam is just an improvised measure to deal with ridiculous situations. 

Lvl 100 intercept is one of those ridiculous situations. 

its fine if the targets within the line of sight gets blinded the point I'm trying to make is how ridiculous blinding an entire map is

[-Temp0-]

Make it LOS, and you'll never see blind mirage again (and possibly, never see anything but hall of mirrors+simulor combo anywhere). And many end-game content like raids or 3rd stage interception sortie (especially corpus ones) will be much more unlikable to the point of skipping this bs as all when players will see those. I mean come on, we all need Mag 2.0 or Saryn 2.0 that no one needs or plays that badly in a game that has no content and consists mainly of the farming and grinding.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

3 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

If we're going to talk about nerfing Mirage, we're gonna need a serious discussion on difficulty scaling in general.

Yes completely agreed! If people are so trigger happy about nerfing special builds and warframes how about we address the current issues and problems with level scaling, and use the sorties' scaling problem comparing to endurance runs in the void. Because people seem only too eager to want to make builds or warframes weaker because they think it's overpowered. I've seen too many threads saying "nerf this frame" "this frame is too OP". 

I can't speak for every single player but I'd rather a rework to make that frame's abilities synergise well and work together. Example, the Mag rework will more than likely make her more than just the 'corpus killer' frame. I've been enjoying playing her with the Orbit skin set and a rework will make her all the more better. Trinity for another example is a healing paragon and energy provider but because for whatever reason no one's crying "NERF TRINITY" are they?

TL:DR- People are only too happy to cry "nerf this frame" and want the warframe to be weaker than to address the level scaling problems in endurance runs, the sorties themselves have shown the problem/s with them. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by LittleArachnid

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

 

3 hours ago, letir said:

Where is the LoS nerf when we need one?

Blind Mirage build is my main build for her and it's a very effective build preventing enemies from getting too far especially in interceptions, defence or even in general. LoS would just make the build useless. Plus people who have built towards this build would have wasted forma and time levelling her to maximise the effectiveness of this build. Clearly you've never played her otherwise suggesting to apply a LoS on blind build. 

[MrJxt]

11 minutes ago, LittleArachnid said:

 

Blind Mirage build is my main build for her and it's a very effective build preventing enemies from getting too far especially in interceptions, defence or even in general. LoS would just make the build useless. Plus people who have built towards this build would have wasted forma and time levelling her to maximise the effectiveness of this build. Clearly you've never played her otherwise suggesting to apply a LoS on blind build. 

The same thing applies to blind excalibur but it got a LoS nerf. Both RB and prism should be consistent.

[Hellmaker2004]

Blind Mirage is needed in Level 100 Interception? Whoops i must have missed that memo! I am sorry i have done them all so wrong i rectify this mistake by never doing any Interception without a Mirage again.

 

But in all seriousness, yes it needs a LoS as a band-aid. Mirage blind would not be a problem if energy was something we needed to manage, sadly we are not there, this is however true for almost all Crowd control skills in the game so Mirage is not the only skeleton in the closet.

[Dr.Foxy]

Why do you people feel the need to nerf something into the ground the moment it's singular saving grace becomes a minor thorn in your side.

 

Let mirage be.

[Magneu]

33 minutes ago, FoxyCross said:

Why do you people feel the need to nerf something into the ground the moment it's singular saving grace becomes a minor thorn in your side.

 

Let mirage be.

Mirage has been like this since her inception. It's only *recently* became prominent due to sorties. We don't want to "nerf her into the ground", we want consistency among abilities, AKA, LoS for blinding abilities (seriously; how does light blind someone through the bulwark of a ship, let alone solid ground?).

This doesn't even mention how Mirage utterly and completely trivializes anything without Nullifiers (and even then, she hits 80-90% of spawns. She can perma-blind multiple tiles, so enemies never even fully leave spawn to attack you. Don't kill enemies, and no new ones spawn.

A frame that can reduce gameplay for other players to the extent that Mirage can is far too unbalanced. Hell, when playing as Chroma I can't even get my buffs up, because enemies are completely unable to damage me. Add the fact that her blind lasts for an extraordinarily long time, and she can lock down an entire map with utter ease. 

People did high tier just fine before Mirage. Prism spam is just a crutch people use to bypass gameplay at extreme speeds and get the rewards essentially for free.

[BlackCoMerc]

18 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Make it LOS, and you'll never see blind mirage again (and possibly, never see anything but hall of mirrors+simulor combo anywhere). And many end-game content like raids or 3rd stage interception sortie (especially corpus ones) will be much more unlikable to the point of skipping this bs as all when players will see those. I mean come on, we all need Mag 2.0 or Saryn 2.0 that no one needs or plays that badly in a game that has no content and consists mainly of the farming and grinding.

Ugh. Raids are awful anyway. Seriously, does ANYONE actually LIKE these scripted puzzles? I don't mean the rewards; I mean actually enjoying the mission itself, mind you. 

So yeah, if LoS for blind means no more idiotic standing on pads, fine by me.

[-Temp0-]

On 01/04/2016 at 7:32 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Ugh. Raids are awful anyway. Seriously, does ANYONE actually LIKE these scripted puzzles? I don't mean the rewards; I mean actually enjoying the mission itself, mind you. 

Well. I did it once to complete Ash set (regular Ash, obviously). And yes, it was fun,but if and only if you here to actually kinda test yourself and enjoy it. If you're hunting for the arcanes and doing it every day, it's probably not.

The point tho, this is the only real end-game content besides sortie. And is unplayable without chessy-chessy vaubans, novas, ev, bless, blind, ect. Becaue even with all of it, it still requires teamwork and still requires doing it all correctly with as few mess ups as possible.

Edited May 16, 2016 by NovusNova
Removed Profanity

[BlackCoMerc]

On 01/04/2016 at 7:37 PM, Nomen_Nescio said:

Well. I did it once to complete Ash set (regular Ash, obviously). And yes, it was fun,but if and only if you here to actually kinda test yourself and enjoy it. If you're hunting for the arcanes and doing it every day, it's probably not.

The point tho, this is the only real end-game content besides sortie. And is unplayable without chessy-chessy vaubans, novas, ev, bless, blind, ect. Becaue even with all of it, it still requires teamwork and still requires doing it all correctly with as few mess ups as possible.

Test yourself? In the raid? Mind you, I only ever did the big, Vay Hek trial. But all it tested was my patience.

Stand in one place. Wait for CC recast. Now stand here. Move there. I felt like an extra on a movie set.

If getting rid of cheap stuff like Blind, Blessing, Irradiating Disarm means we dont get more content like this, where do I sign up?

[-Temp0-]

Yes. The raids are here for that. It didn't test my patince because the team was good (surprisingly) as much. 

Better than punching the sht out of enemies for an hour straight. At least here it requires actual teamwork. Puzzles might've been less tedious tho, but that's about it. But like I said, running it even once a day would ruin it, and so can running them only for the arcanes.

We'll get more stuff like this (new Boss condition in sortie only proves that), AND you won't be able to complete it without ragequiting because all CC/support/damage abilities are slowly being nerfred, how does that sound now? Just shooting Vay Heck with no energy for 15 minutes? Sounds like fun?

Edited April 1, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[BlackCoMerc]

Oh I agree, constant power creep of enemies plus frame needs is bad. It's killing the fun for me, for sure. Knockdown spam, bullet sponges, Nullifiers, Bursa...I don't play near as much.

But sorties...I just avoid. Random loot is simply not worth that sort of effort. At all. Let me pick rewards, guarantee some, or give us Tokens to buy rewards. But go through all that? For RNG loot? Nope.

[Suira]

On 31/03/2016 at 0:11 AM, MajorTurnip said:

I'm all for LoS nerf but Mirage's blind spam is just an improvised measure to deal with ridiculous situations. 

Lvl 100 intercept is one of those ridiculous situations. 

^This

Want to know what else is game breaking at an interception? Any CC ability that can be recast onto an enemy. Why not just have 4 Excals with Zenurik casting Radial Blind at each point? Want to know how fun this is? 0% fun. Want to know how effective this is? 100% pure effective.

Changing Blind Mirage will not stop cheese strats. It might make them slightly more frustrating, but it wont change them.
The issue is that right now CC > killing enemies.
Once we reach the point where it is CC < killing enemies then the problem will have fixed itself.
That is if you want the game to be that way.

Edited April 28, 2016 by D20
"Don't like it don't play it" is not constructive.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

55 minutes ago, Suira said:

^This

 

I honestly do not have a problem with Blind Mirage. I rarely use it but when I do I am very happy that I have it.
If you don't like Blind Mirage then don't use her. If you don't like it when other players use her then don't play with them/ask them politely to change.

Want to know what else is game breaking at an interception? Any CC ability that can be recast onto an enemy. Why not just have 4 Excals with Zenurik casting Radial Blind at each point? Want to know how fun this is? 0% fun. Want to know how effective this is? 100% pure effective.

Changing Blind Mirage will not stop cheese strats. It might make them slightly more frustrating, but it wont change them.
The issue is that right now CC > killing enemies.
Once we reach the point where it is CC < killing enemies then the problem will have fixed itself.
That is if you want the game to be that way.

I love using the build, as well as rarely focussing on hall of mirrors and sleight of hand. People want to cry NERF NERF NERF how about people appreciate the frames...and those that legitimately need reworks than address them. I for one don't want to see all the frames nerfed because people sook and cry "ermagerd this (warframe) is TOO OP NERF NERF NERF"

[GrimAtrament]

iv only seen Blind mirage in LOR so im not to concerned about it LOS and then make the enemies do the disco who see it please :P

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by hazerddex