Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[SoulHunter2008]

3 hours ago, CrudShuzKong said:

It will not leave the tile, but if one tileset contains other rooms, you will see ash popping in.

i had meant tile thank you yes

[AKKILLA]

4 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Well I was not the one accusing the other for whinign about killsteal, just saying...

Other than that, you specifically asked for my feedback on your idea and i took the time to write up a detailed analysis of it, so you can see possible issues and think about solving them. In return you go around other threads calling me a whiny crybaby for not being able to deal wiht killstealers. If anyone of us needs to work on respect it is you.

That being said I do not liek the design of WoF and Tornadoes either, but i dont encounter those nearly as often as BS spamming Ashes. Also with Ash being up for debate first, I will try to find better designs for him before anything else.

Man You got Me confused I haven't said such idiocy. I did state that it seems Your grief with the current Blade storm is the Kill steal and Invulnerability it provides which You obviously have made clear in every Blade storm conversation am I correct? I understand its a small issue but You also wanted Ash to NOT be invulnerable in these situations but You need to analyze what makes Ash powerful and what benefits him and thats totally Blade storms invincibility. The fact Ash can go invincible gives Ash players the incentive of a panic button when near death. If that is removed then Ash's Smoke Screen duration must be raised because although Ash has a high health pool he is still quiet squishy and can be downed instantaneously. I consider the Best  concept is in Fact a Stance Blade storm and like I say Millions of times and link so you can see everything i say is straight from Warframe wikia.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

• Ash was the FIRST Warframe that had INNATE PHYSICAL WEAPONS associated with his frame, in this case his HIDDEN BLADES he uses in his BLADE STORM ability. The second frame with this innate physical weapon was Mesa and her Regulator pistols she uses in her Peacemaker ability.

• Ash, like some of Hydroid's powers, has a unique perk that allows his Blade Storm ability to completely bypass enemy armor due to the attacks dealing Finisher damage; the kind of damage used when players perform finishing attacks on downed enemies.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Finishing_Damage?action=edit&section=1

Finisher animations render the player invulnerable to damage

I would respect that Ashs Clones in current Bladestorm allow allies to kill them, except for Ash himself. and the invulnerability should stay because he is performing Finisher kills and any Finisher kill and stealth kill in Warframe Renders all Warframes INVINCIBLE.

BTW this isnt an exact Rework thread just small QoLs i think would be nice additions to whats already here. An actual rework will not be in DEs radar any time soon. Just wanted to offer some ideas that can possibly make it in game sooner then later.

 

Read please carefully i know theres alot but read to understand the idea im implementing

 

[CrudShuzKong]

I just spoke about that with him in My Ash thread, He does seem to be mad about Kill Steals and I understand in one point, I careless about peoples kill streaks and that doesnt interest Me in the slightest. His Logic tho to Ash ideas is kinda illogical, as He stated a Ninja shouldnt go berserker, but a Ninjas smoke screen shouldnt leave up an AoE cloud that stuns enemies and opens finishers. What Logic is his Logic I honestly dont know, maybe a self centered logic where everything is how he wishes? Ninjas dont turn invisibile either, they hide and blend in to the environment but im not here to discuss Ninja logic or talk about Tenchu/Metal Gear mechanics.

This is Warframe and here anything goes, Ninjas logic is as good as folk lore and japanese mythology here.

No point in stating Your Ninja Logic of Real Ninjas cuz I have enough knowledge on Real Ninjas as I am a inja Enthusiast and I lve talking about Feudal Japan history but were not here for that this is about Mesa and Ash.

 

Guess im confusing you with this guy who is sharing your name over in the other Ash thread that is active right now...
Also adding to this quote, I fully agreed with smokescreen staying up as a thick cloud and actually mentioned that in my original response, i was only thinking of it making enemies panic and go blind instead of just opening them up for finishers (which would be something an excal does  better anyways) and saying that finishers could be an augment tho.
Your comprehensive english reading skills are not on point mate (maybe not your mother tongue), so please before you go to other threads trying to make me look stupid as hard as you can in front of those that approve of your antics, read again and try to comprehend and if you can't there is no shame in asking me to clarify.

Also Ash's smokescreen is PER DEFINITION an escape tool: blast the ground and stagger the enemies while you just walk out invisible...
I never had issues with duration as i build my Ash for assassination and not roomclearing (i go for duration and range, not strength and use a covert lethality dagger), though i'd agree a bit more won't hurt.

Other than that i can only repeat myself over and over since you are immune to these words: I DONT CARE ABOUT KILLSTEAL. I do care about people mindlessly making enemies in front of me invincible every 20 seconds just because they happened upon their LoS.

I actually did not understand to which rework you were referring to when talking about stance ultimate since you posted about 4 different ideas in the last 5 days.

About that one rework you just referenced, it is actually one of my favourites that i found on the Forums so far, but it lacks a bit of synergy with the 2 and 3 abilities by granting invisibility itself. It is in fact very similar to a rework i already posted a rough framework of, and if you want i can pm you the fully fleshed out version that I created from it.

[RealPandemonium]

You want Blade Storm to even more damage?!

[LunarEdge7]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:52 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

 

And if you fail to find another target by the end of the animation, it boots you back to a standing state wherever you teleported to.

Simple, in line with the current thematics of Ash, presses for more skill rather than more spam, scales to chainkilling lines of enemies rather than filling entire maps with death. Even works with the existing assets, minimalizing the artistic work needed.

I love this idea, and would play Ash after he gets reworked to this ability state.

Now, how many enemies can he kill max? As long as his toggled 4 still stays?

[AKKILLA]

3 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I love this idea, and would play Ash after he gets reworked to this ability state.

Now, how many enemies can he kill max? As long as his toggled 4 still stays?

as many as You wish. Thats the point. its a Stance and as long as its not fully drained I think you should be able too kill as much as You can. I was thinkin about editing because I have a few ideas one is.

Should his Blade storm drain per attack? because Ash has a small energy pool even with Primed Flow maxed. Maybe drain per attack and per ability casted while in Blade storm?

Also, I was thinking, lets say you press 1 (Shuriken) You shoot shurikens and the enemies hit by shuriken are targeted by Clones. Heres the idea.

You press 1 Ash+ his clones shoot one large shuriken each (3 total) and each enemies hit by shuriken will spawn a Clone 1 clone per shuriken tagged target and the clones deal 25% of original Ashs damage, plus these clones targets are not invulnerable to allies damage. These Clones tagged by shurikens can be teleported to free of cost and with no line of sight as long as they are still being targeted by the clones. These shuriken clones can function off the Bleed DoT ticks which are 7 ticks per 6 seconds which the clone can attack the enemy for those 6 seconds you are allowed to teleport to them.

Recasting shurikens will destroy the last clones and spawn new ones. this may give ash players incentive to tag enemies and teleport in for quick assassinations

[xBlade-Stormx]

On 3/15/2016 at 8:03 PM, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

I dislike how many people disagree with a free aim teleport for ash when nezah, Loki and nova are all allowed to have it.(also itzal has it)

Well i wouldn't call any of those Free Aim, they all require you to do other things to set it in motion. Free aim is aim, press the button. With nezha it's throw the Chatcram weapon and then hit the button, again works some of the time. Meaning you often aren't where you want to be because the weapon moves so fast you just can't hit the button to hit the mark you want to hit, it's either not there or on the way back.

 It needs a bullet time exe so you can see it in slow motion so you can hit the button and teleport right where you want, Other wise you might find yourself falling into a chasm or other odd places i know i have.

Loki you either put your decoy out or you have a enemy or a team mate to teleport to, thats not free aim.

Nova you have to aim then make the wormhole then jump into, still not free aim. And the worm Hole can and does get you into some odd places to, have teleported behind stuff in the map and got stuck during raids.

Free Aim you look and target with your reticule and then hit the button and teleport to that location. That is true Free Aim.

Loki should have this already but they didn't make him with this capability.

Ash should have this also.

Novas is a help for her team and herself of course.

Ash is the only one though it's just Mirrors and Smoke, If it wasn't then where ever he finished is where he would appear next, not back in the same spot he started from.

From my understanding Ash's Ult already uses a finisher, any stealth frame when in stealth has the innate finisher with 300 damage. so thats Moot .ck the wiki. It's a part of the Stealth Mechanic in the game.

Ivara has this

Loki has this

As does any of the stealth frames that are in stealth mode when they do a kill. the finisher mods don't stack with them they work on frames that don't use the innate finisher attacks when they do work that is, at least thats my understanding of the way it works unless DE has made some changes to it along the way. I don't even use the finisher mods. And i haven't cked to see if they have done so either. Though if it's not cannon they probably haven't. A lot of the stanzes have it built in when you have a enemy down you can do a combo move to do the kill which is a finisher. So why waste a slot, when i have better mods to put in.

Now as for clones. I don't want to be a damp rag here but i just can't see the clones. The Grinneer have Clones they are clones every last one of them except the twin queens they are Orokin Least thats what i'm getting from the lore. same as the Corpus they to are clones and suppose to be the closest to human that is left other then the tenno themselves and the colonys. You do know we are star born. The system is just one of many.

What i can see is the game allowing his ult to scale to the lvl's of the enemy's so he can accomplish what his ult is suppose to do. which it doesn't. I have hit the button several times and still have had to go out and kill some of the targets because they are such high lvl. The problem in the game that DE has is scaleablitiy and thats what is breaking the balance in the game and many of the powers that the warframes have, That and the fact they are nerfing the warframes all the time and making the enemy's stronger on the other hand.

Clones would take away from Ash's greatness as a Warrior and the lore of the game. The enemy's do use Clones. Ash just needs to scale to the lvl of his enemy's for his Ult to be truly effective. And his smoke is way to short in duration even fully modded out. It should at the very least last as long as Loki's timed invisibility'

Ash was considered a lone Ninja.

And as a rework on his ability's yes i can see many of those working that AKKILA has shown us in this thread. I agree on most of them. As Long as they don't deviate from the Lore of the game and what is cannon then i can see it.

Now something i could see is the clones we put in our gear to help us when we fight. i very seldom use them anymore. Though i could see one for Ash that you could put out and it helps him when he does his Ult as long as it was a Ash clone. being that when you make it you use a Ash same should be for whatever clone you make it should be able to use at least one of the powers that you made it from. you tell it to follow and it does what you do being his ault it to would attack enemy's in the same way. That would be canon as it is a clone of Ash And would be a simpler AI to make and work with. The engine is limited in many ways as are all game engines and to what peoples systems can do.

So you have to look at those things to. this game has billions of lines of code in it.

 

 

[CrudShuzKong]

I wouldn't mind a free aim teleport on Ash as long as it doesn't have as mch range as the usual one (and doesn't scale of mods), a free aim teleport with 100 range would always just bump you into walls like nova's gate and i really don't want to be backed against a wall with a frame like Ash.

A completely different way of handling this might be allowing walls as tanget and immediatly initiating a wall latch after casting on a wall, that would give you the abillity to jump in a controlled direction right away and not screw you over (maybe being able to cast smokescreen in the air would help with this, although the power would have to be changed as well to allow this).

Edited March 24, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[AKKILLA]

3 hours ago, xBlade-Stormx said:

Well i wouldn't call any of those Free Aim, they all require you to do other things to set it in motion. Free aim is aim, press the button. With nezha it's throw the Chatcram weapon and then hit the button, again works some of the time. Meaning you often aren't where you want to be because the weapon moves so fast you just can't hit the button to hit the mark you want to hit, it's either not there or on the way back.

 It needs a bullet time exe so you can see it in slow motion so you can hit the button and teleport right where you want, Other wise you might find yourself falling into a chasm or other odd places i know i have.

Loki you either put your decoy out or you have a enemy or a team mate to teleport to, thats not free aim.

Nova you have to aim then make the wormhole then jump into, still not free aim. And the worm Hole can and does get you into some odd places to, have teleported behind stuff in the map and got stuck during raids.

Free Aim you look and target with your reticule and then hit the button and teleport to that location. That is true Free Aim.

Loki should have this already but they didn't make him with this capability.

Ash should have this also.

Novas is a help for her team and herself of course.

Ash is the only one though it's just Mirrors and Smoke, If it wasn't then where ever he finished is where he would appear next, not back in the same spot he started from.

From my understanding Ash's Ult already uses a finisher, any stealth frame when in stealth has the innate finisher with 300 damage. so thats Moot .ck the wiki. It's a part of the Stealth Mechanic in the game.

Ivara has this

Loki has this

As does any of the stealth frames that are in stealth mode when they do a kill. the finisher mods don't stack with them they work on frames that don't use the innate finisher attacks when they do work that is, at least thats my understanding of the way it works unless DE has made some changes to it along the way. I don't even use the finisher mods. And i haven't cked to see if they have done so either. Though if it's not cannon they probably haven't. A lot of the stanzes have it built in when you have a enemy down you can do a combo move to do the kill which is a finisher. So why waste a slot, when i have better mods to put in.

Now as for clones. I don't want to be a damp rag here but i just can't see the clones. The Grinneer have Clones they are clones every last one of them except the twin queens they are Orokin Least thats what i'm getting from the lore. same as the Corpus they to are clones and suppose to be the closest to human that is left other then the tenno themselves and the colonys. You do know we are star born. The system is just one of many.

What i can see is the game allowing his ult to scale to the lvl's of the enemy's so he can accomplish what his ult is suppose to do. which it doesn't. I have hit the button several times and still have had to go out and kill some of the targets because they are such high lvl. The problem in the game that DE has is scaleablitiy and thats what is breaking the balance in the game and many of the powers that the warframes have, That and the fact they are nerfing the warframes all the time and making the enemy's stronger on the other hand.

Clones would take away from Ash's greatness as a Warrior and the lore of the game. The enemy's do use Clones. Ash just needs to scale to the lvl of his enemy's for his Ult to be truly effective. And his smoke is way to short in duration even fully modded out. It should at the very least last as long as Loki's timed invisibility'

Ash was considered a lone Ninja.

And as a rework on his ability's yes i can see many of those working that AKKILA has shown us in this thread. I agree on most of them. As Long as they don't deviate from the Lore of the game and what is cannon then i can see it.

Now something i could see is the clones we put in our gear to help us when we fight. i very seldom use them anymore. Though i could see one for Ash that you could put out and it helps him when he does his Ult as long as it was a Ash clone. being that when you make it you use a Ash same should be for whatever clone you make it should be able to use at least one of the powers that you made it from. you tell it to follow and it does what you do being his ault it to would attack enemy's in the same way. That would be canon as it is a clone of Ash And would be a simpler AI to make and work with. The engine is limited in many ways as are all game engines and to what peoples systems can do.

So you have to look at those things to. this game has billions of lines of code in it.

 

 

the idea is the shuriken+teleport synergy. works similar to blazing chakram, except you must hit an enemy with shuriken. to teleport to them the must have the DoT still affecting them

[AKKILLA]

On 2/2/2016 at 4:32 PM, AKKILLA said:

Hello Fellow Tenno

 

I hope You guys are hungry?

 

Because today You're in for a Treat!

 

I have done research for a while in forums and never really made a thread till now this is my second thread.

 

Soo I figure You guys are Starving and Noone can go fight the forces of Evil on an Empty Stomach! X_X

 

As the Title Implies that is Your Main Coarse soo I will serve You appetizers (Ash entire kit)  before feeding You the entree.

 

Without further a due....

PASSIVE: (Stealth Assassin) Undetected Ash has 100% chance to activate Stealth Companions with in 20 m's (Ghost/Stalk)  +Innate Handspring. Stealth Kill Affinity is possible in Blade Storm (Stance)

 

 

Hidden Content

Proof Ashs Blade storm can be a Stance, Ash is a melee focused Frame not a Caster and this would make sense be interactive and fun imo.

 

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This is a Comparison of Stance Ultimates Procing Stealth Kill Affinity Bonus but not Bladestorm, tho Bladestorm was Casted Undetected and still I get Rewarded the get 10 kills unalerted Stealth challenge? You get My Logic? This should be taken into account with this Bladestorm concept and Killing enemies undetected will assure You One shot Stealth Kills obviously. Reward Ash players for Killing in Stealth Bladestorm. I hope this serves as Logic evidence to judging My idea as a passive. As You clearly see Exalted Blade waves and Hysteria and Primal Fury Kills in Stealth are OP why would Bladestorm a Stealth Warframes Ultimate cannot benefit from this bonus is Ludacris and thats why stealth is Broken. Bladestorm as I invision it is a Super Stealth Assassination with Shadow Clones so I wanted to implement that into Ash. Seen above One Cast of My Bladestorm achieved all 10 Kills I needed. 

 

SHURIKEN

Hidden Content

 

 

SMOKE SCREEN

Hidden Content

 

TELEPORT

Hidden Content

 

Hope Your still Hungry?

 

Heres Your Main coarse Tenno!

 

ADDED SLIGHT CHANGES

 

BLADE STORM

Hidden Content

 

Now that I fed Yall the main coarse heres a special treat.... DESSERT!

Hidden Content

 

Hidden Content

 

I think screen shots and videos along with gif's are a nice way of expressing a topic and giving the readers a visual picture soo i wanted to show You this video I came across, now I want you to see how the Grineer Manic acts and functions even tho im sure you are familiar check out how Lethal and Elusive these runts are! Seems similar to a Blade storm soo I wanted to emphasize this concept around them in a way.

 

Well Thanx for stopping by and I hope You enjoyed Your meal. Hopefully You enjoyed and it was to Your taste. If not atleast know I feed You something healthy and You will have strength to combat the evil forces in the Galaxy Tenno.

Thank You all for your support and feed backs I will link here threads of friends and like minded individuals who share similar concepts about Ash here enjoy!

Stay on Your Guard Tenno!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited title need moderator to edit spoilers -__-

[swizzybeatzjamz]

This post make any eyes bleed its too jumbled together... Seems like good ideas though

[AKKILLA]

Just now, swizzybeatzjamz said:

This post make any eyes bleed its too jumbled together... Seems like good ideas though

Yeah I contacted D20 to fix the spoilers kinda got outta hand and I cant fix on my own.

[AKKILLA]

NOTE: The reason for the Title is not because Ash and Loki share a big similarity in abilities but because since the beginning as a long time player I have heard plenty of trolls/puns regarding Loki and Ash and all of them favor Loki. Like the Famous ASH IS TRASH or WHY PLAY ASH WHEN YOU CAN GO LOKI? There only notable similarity is Invisibility which Loki excels in duration wise and thus making Loki the preferred choice for Stealth and Spy missions. 

 

I believe it is finally time to Rework Ash.

Judging by Volt and Mags reworks they seem to be good ones and Mesa will receive some love too.

I believe and wish DE would hear Me out and get it right the first try. I would hate to put down Warframe for a couple of months cuz My favorite Frame is ruined.

I will try and break this down short and simple. This is not about Blade Storm Only. I really think Ashs whole kit could use some fixes as well to bring out his utility and make his kit feel more rewarding then over shadowed by others that do it better.

SHURIKEN

Spoiler

-Apply Melee Mods for better Damage Scaling in higher levels                                                                                                                                                                                             (Secondary doesnt make sense Ash is a Melee frame and Shuriken is a ability not secondary weapon)

-Add 4 Shuriken's Total to debuff more enemies (Seeking Shuriken benefits from this)

-Allow Teleports to enemies hit by Shuriken (Only enemies still bleeding from Shuriken DoT, Line of Sight not required for the initial Teleport)

SMOKE SCREEN

Spoiler

-Apply a Lingering Fog effect for Smoke Screen in a Radius (AoE Cloud)

-Enemies who enter cloud are choked and cough inside and are Open to Finisher Kills, enemies out side the AoE are Staggered back with a 50% chance Knock down

-Allies who enter Aoe receive the casters full duration no matter the clouds current duration. (Smoke Shadow equipped)

-Smoke Screen is castable in the air, cast animation forces Ash into a Ground Slam animation casting the smoke bomb on contact with the ground, enemies out side are staggered enemies inside are knocked down (Choke applies to enemies upon recovery)  

TELEPORT

Spoiler

-Teleport can be performed on enemies hit by Shuriken as long as the Bleed is still active

-Teleport is possible to Smoke Screen AoE clouds

-Quick Dash Teleports are available, with a moderate range (in Blade Storm Only)

BLADE STORM

Spoiler

-Reworked as a Stance Channeled Ultimate

-Can be Toggled on and off

-Scales off Melee Mods for Higher level Damage Scaling (Deals same Finisher/Slash Bleed DoT)

-Synergizes with his other abilities

-Shuriken fires 3 energy Shuriken (Ash and both cones fire 1 each)

-Smoke Screen is recasteable, one active only (current duration doesnt change when recasting)

-Dash Teleports cost No Energy (To make up for the mobility current Blade Storm offers)

-Attacking enemies renders You Invulnerable/ Not attacking renders You invisible but damage is still taken.                                                                                                                           (Attacking Breaks Invisibility in Blade Storm, Not attacking keeps You Cloaked similar to a Grineer Manic)

Note: For those who disagree with a Stance Blade Storm here is proof from wikia it makes sense and can work

Spoiler

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

Trivia

• Ash was the first Warframe that had innate physical weapons associated with his frame, in this case his hidden blades he uses in his Blade Storm ability. The second frame with this innate physical weapon was Mesa and her Regulator pistols she uses in her Peacemaker ability.

Ash also currently is affected by a Melee mod thats for Channeling which Imo makes no sense soo why not make Blade Storm a Stance when its was the first weapon ability?

Blade Storm rework itself wont make the rest of his abilities any better and Im sure if DE take another route of reworking Blade Storm it will make Ash even worse as Ash stands currently he is only good for Blade Storm spam, it provides Kill steal and Invincibility which is what makes it vital to any Ash players kit, Smoke Screen 2nd and then Teleport but its soo limited that it leaves You wanting more from it. Shuriken arent bad could use more scaling with Melee mods and 2 more would help with Striping a wider group of enemy armor/shields with Seeking Shuriken.

I love Ash and I want him to be fun and wanted in squads for what he can offer the team, currently he offers nothing unless if You master a Smoke Shadow build which hardly anyone runs except Me and xLordKogax. The fact is Noone or atleast barely anyone uses Ash for Duration and its proven seeing as all the Youtubers promote a Blade Storm oriented build, everyone claims Ashs Smoke Screen is Horrible nut its actually decent if modded for it but I believe with this idea Smoke Screen will be alot better and the actual Utility/Crowd Control Ash needs. Just keep his current Invisibility in Smoke Screen, and dont make Ash sit in the Cloud for Invisibility thats a bad idea making him hindered to hiding in the smoke screen is more of a Nerf, He already has the shortest invisibility in Game we dont need to take it away completely.

I hope we can be heard as I have seen constant Ash rework threads as well as Blade Storm Nerfs/Fix threads. I believe I explained all the answers here Now its up to You guys to decide if this is it and Vote this up for the next Future rework

Support and up vote Tenno 

Thank You

Edited April 4, 2016 by AKKILLA

[Gurpgork]

Well, I've already been rather vocal about my (quite negative) opinion of a stance Blade Storm, but I'm not really in the mood to debate that right now. Plus, I don't think I've gotten around to providing my feedback on the rest of the rework.

• As much as I'd like Shuriken (and all abilities similar to it) to deal relevant damage late-game, there's the issue where it's impossible to mod both the ability and the melee weapon optimally at the same time. Allowing both Shuriken and Blade Storm to benefit from melee mods heavily compounds this problem, since Shuriken would want Glaive mods such as Whirlwind and Power Throw, whereas Blade Storm would want Berserker and True Steel, and there is simply no room for both. Forget making your actual melee weapon useful, making both abilities useful would be a very tedious task.
• Is there a limit to the number of Smokescreens that can be placed? Because if there isn't, I see a pretty big problem with Ash players building Range + Duration and locking down an entire map with it, since it's such a cheap ability. The utility would be extremely welcome, but either there needs to be a finite number of smoke clouds that can be placed at a time, or they need to have a very short duration. It would be extremely useful, but it shouldn't be exploitable. Please correct me if I misread something here.
• I don't think your Blade Storm needs to be a toggle invisibility on top of being a toggled weapon, especially because it's in a kit that has Smokescreen. Furthermore, making him invincible while attacking is overkill, since your Smokescreen idea gives him really good crowd control on top of invisibility and insane mobility. Ash would already have plenty of survivability. 
• Making it scale off of melee mods and still do the Slash DoT is also overkill. The Slash DoT alone is already enough to put a pretty big dent in almost anything you can find in a sortie, and abilities that scale off of melee mods make mincemeat of that content. Making it do both is too strong... Especially if you want it to make him invulnerable while attacking.
• How do the clones fit into Blade Storm? Do they just appear when you cast Shuriken?
• The short dash teleport is a fantastic idea, but making it a Blade Storm synergy is not. It's the same problem with Saryn's Miasma. It's not synergy, it's dependency. I don't see any good reason that this effect should shoehorn Ash into using Blade Storm to use the full ability, especially if the free aim teleport is has a reduced range. 

That's all I have for now. I do really like the Smokescreen and Shuriken ideas, so you have my +1 for that.

P.S. Aside from the Smokescreen vs. Invisibility fiasco, I don't really think that Ash is exactly in Loki's shadow. While they both use basically the same template for their kits (cheap gimmick for 1, invisibility for 2, teleportation for 3, AoE ultimate), but they don't really eclipse each other. Loki is a disruptor frame, while Ash is all about raw damage. They aren't really competing with each other, and one doesn't make the other irrelevant.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Gurpgork

[YasaiTsume]

Thoughts : 

1. Do not need another channeled ultimate : Ash is a Ninja that focuses on takedowns, not brawling or prolonged fighting. A channeled Bladestorm on serves to encourage players to keep it on, seeking fights, when designing him to take out enemies ASAP should be the focus. (Just me reading Ash's current kit and his identity)

2. Teleport should have less prerequisites : Forcing an ability to only work with prerequisites ( Bladestorm, Bleed etc) is a terrible idea, and is NOT SYNERGY.

A Targeted Teleport would do fine just nicely. In fact, if yu want to promote synergy, have Teleport synergize with Smoke Screen, where Teleporting from a Smoke Screen brings the target into the Smoke Screen, making Teleport both a mobility skill as well as an offensive / defensive utility.

3. I do not like yur title of the thread : Ash is in no way similar to Loki and should not be compared. Loki is a trickster class who emphasizes on On- Field Sabotage. Ash is a Ninja who focuses on Take downs and Assassinations.

The only similarity is their current shared skill of "invisibility" which is a flawed thinking that every ninja should have a cloaking skill. 

 

PS: If yu love Ash, yu wouldn't "put him down because he is ruined" yu would relearn his new kit even if it is radically changed. 

[--Q--uaint]

I don’t like the idea of making yet another Warframe have an “Exalted weapon.” I think Bladestorm could be reworked to have similar mechanics but be useful without being ridiculous.

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

Well, considering the announced changes to come and the current state of various other frames, (I'm looking at you Hydroid, Limbo, and Oberon) I'd say Ash is in a decent spot.  Is he perfect?  No.  He has a job and he does it well.  In fact, I'd argue he's the best at it barring a few niche situations.  Now my review of your proposed changes:

Shuriken:  More projectiles, and mod scaling?  Seems a bit overpowered, espcially for a 1.  Converting it to finisher damage in keeping with his role and the rest of his kit and adjusting the targetting on the other hand would go a long way.  While added utility would be welcome, your suggestion for incorporating a teleport seems kinda clunkly, especially when you take into account how many enemies one can affect with shuriken in a short time.  Your increases shuriken count would only compound this.  Also, you never specified how one would use this teleport.  No follow up shuriken?  Long press of 1?  Priority target for 3?  In keeping with the increased mobility theme, it would probably be best to have shuriken that don't strike a foe to become targetable for a brief duration.  This would add actual synergy with Teleport rather than forcing skills to be used together.  It would also fit with Ash's mobility and serve a similar role to Loki's Decoy/Switch Teleport and Ivara's Dashwire Arrow.

Smoke Screen:  While I am not opposed to increasing its CC abilities, (ideally I'd like to see a blind with a decent duration, say 4 seconds affected by duration mods) a lingering cloud seems a bit unbalanced when you consider the utility already offered and its cheap cost.  This is why I said it would serve better as an Augment in your other thread.  Now mind you, this would also mean it would be limited and balanced.  As far as Smoke Shadow goes, so few use it because it is so underwelming.  This is more a problem with the augment.  I'd argue doubling the range would be a great start.  Though I'd say the main reason most Ash players don't have a workable Smoke Screen is due to Transient Fortitude and Fleeting Expertise.  More mod variety would make these mods less desirable.  With comparable mods, there would be more build variety.  Then, while people might not spec especially for Smoke Screen, they could still use a decent one.  While I like the ability of being able to cast Smoke Screen while in the air, it would have more utility if it were to affect Ash while he was airborne.  Especially considering Ash's kit, this is a skill that really should be able to be cast on the move.

Teleport:  I already addressed they Shuriken synergy above.  The cloud targetting is too flawed.  One of the main complaints already is the unreliable targetting.  Now imagine a high-priority target in the cloud.  It is very likely that the ability to finish the target quickly could be hindered.  As for the repeat teleports, it'd be better to cut the enegery costs such as with Valkyr's Rip Line.  I'd also suggest increasing the window this is available on account of finishers.

Blade Storm:  I have already addressed the many problems with your proposed rework of Blade Storm in the thread you posted about it.  Put simply, many Ash players don't like the Exalted Blade Storm playstyle.  We want to target someone from across the room and stab them and their friends in the throat.  We don't want another Exalted Blade clone.  Also, forced synergy is not fun.  It cripples a frame's kit and often forces them to bring their entire kit to bear just to get the necessary use out of it.  The proposed changes you mentioned here are too imbalanced.  It looks like you just adopted suggestions you received from your rework thread and put them here to appease people.  This current form you proposed will not fly, and to make it fly, you're going to lose a lot.  It would probably be many of the things Ash players really enjoy about it too.

There you go hyping up Smoke Shadow again.  All of Ash's augments come off as underwhelming, especially this one.  You're completely disregarding Ash's primary role in the group.  You might be content to be a jack of all trades and master of none, but me?  In the immortal words of the Wolverine, "I'm the best there is at what I do but what I do best isn't very nice."

 

[AKKILLA]

10 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Well, I've already been rather vocal about my (quite negative) opinion of a stance Blade Storm, but I'm not really in the mood to debate that right now. Plus, I don't think I've gotten around to providing my feedback on the rest of the rework.

• As much as I'd like Shuriken (and all abilities similar to it) to deal relevant damage late-game, there's the issue where it's impossible to mod both the ability and the melee weapon optimally at the same time. Allowing both Shuriken and Blade Storm to benefit from melee mods heavily compounds this problem, since Shuriken would want Glaive mods such as Whirlwind and Power Throw, whereas Blade Storm would want Berserker and True Steel, and there is simply no room for both. Forget making your actual melee weapon useful, making both abilities useful would be a very tedious task.
• Is there a limit to the number of Smokescreens that can be placed? Because if there isn't, I see a pretty big problem with Ash players building Range + Duration and locking down an entire map with it, since it's such a cheap ability. The utility would be extremely welcome, but either there needs to be a finite number of smoke clouds that can be placed at a time, or they need to have a very short duration. It would be extremely useful, but it shouldn't be exploitable. Please correct me if I misread something here.
• I don't think your Blade Storm needs to be a toggle invisibility on top of being a toggled weapon, especially because it's in a kit that has Smokescreen. Furthermore, making him invincible while attacking is overkill, since your Smokescreen idea gives him really good crowd control on top of invisibility and insane mobility. Ash would already have plenty of survivability. 
• Making it scale off of melee mods and still do the Slash DoT is also overkill. The Slash DoT alone is already enough to put a pretty big dent in almost anything you can find in a sortie, and abilities that scale off of melee mods make mincemeat of that content. Making it do both is too strong... Especially if you want it to make him invulnerable while attacking.
• How do the clones fit into Blade Storm? Do they just appear when you cast Shuriken?
• The short dash teleport is a fantastic idea, but making it a Blade Storm synergy is not. It's the same problem with Saryn's Miasma. It's not synergy, it's dependency. I don't see any good reason that this effect should shoehorn Ash into using Blade Storm to use the full ability, especially if the free aim teleport is has a reduced range. 

That's all I have for now. I do really like the Smokescreen and Shuriken ideas, so you have my +1 for that.

P.S. Aside from the Smokescreen vs. Invisibility fiasco, I don't really think that Ash is exactly in Loki's shadow. While they both use basically the same template for their kits (cheap gimmick for 1, invisibility for 2, teleportation for 3, AoE ultimate), but they don't really eclipse each other. Loki is a disruptor frame, while Ash is all about raw damage. They aren't really competing with each other, and one doesn't make the other irrelevant.

Well now, I have some good replies in My hands. I will try to answer each of You at My best knowledgeable reply.

There are lots of abilities scaled off of Mods that shouldnt function with the ability as I quoted before Blade Storm+Quickening IMO makes No Sense what so ever.

There are only 2 Melee Mods that affect Blade Storm and the rest cease to exist, this was a slight tweak on DEs end to see if Blade Storm would perform slightly better and it did a tad bit affect it but still we continue to have the same problems. The Camera isnt gonna change even if the allow Melee Mods to scale from Blade Storm (All Melee Mods)

That would only make aAsh kill a lot faster in Blade Storm and possibly Piss off alot of Squad mates. IMO Blade Storm as a Radial Nuke is Terrible gameplay. Does it work? Yes it does it destroys practically all low to mid level enemies and its Boring. A Cut scene ability in a MMO Online is horrendous, makes sense for a one player Triple A like Shinobi/Ninja Gaiden not Warframe. Its super boring, I even got that comment from My cousin last night he came over I was ordering Pizza and He wanted to Play My Ash so I let Him. He didnt under stand how to play so I told him the abilities and he tried Blade Storm and the first thing he said was its Terribly boring and looks Horrible. (In Game)

I showed him why I love Ash because He trolled Me saying Ash is Trash and When he seen the Ash Blade Storm Trailer he told Me it looks cool, but if You could control Blade Storm and kill the cut scene cam Blade Storm would be fun. (Stance Blade Storm fits Perfectly)

Shuriken as You stated sounds like You are getting a bit ahead of Yourself lets recap, Landslide scales off melee as well as Excals Slash Dash which are both 1st abilities

LAND SLIDE

Spoiler

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Landslide

• INFO

Landslide is affected by certain melee mods including base damage (e.g. Steel Charge),  Impact damage, elemental damage, critical damage, critical chance, and status chance mods.

Why not Scale shuriken off of certain mods only to scale the damage up just a bit more? I would say keep it as slash damage mods and some elementals? W.E You think works best I just wanted to provide some solid proof that Shuriken could scale off of melee mods as these 1st abilities do

SLASH DASH

Spoiler

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibur

• INFO

Slash Dash is also affected by equipped melee mods including:

Base damage is affected by Power Strength, the Melee Combo Counter, and the 10% additive damage bonus from Excalibur's passive if a longsword, dual sword, or nikana is equipped.

• Base damage (e.g., Steel Charge), elemental damage, and physical damage mods.
• Slash Dash's base damage uses the following expression when accounting for Power Strength:Modified Base Damage = Base Damage × (1 + Base Damage Bonus) × (1 + Power Strength). As an example, with a maxed Steel Charge, Pressure Point, and Intensify, a rank-3 Slash Dash will have 250 × 2.8 × 1.3 = 910 base damag

As provided here from Wikia I wanted to show how these 1st abilities scale with certain melee mods maybe Shuriken can function similar only allowing certain melee mods affect its damage out put to scale better. The idea of adding 4 shuriken is to debuff more enemies at a time and add some utility to shuriken. I just wanted to show shuriken the love it deserves cuz most are worried more about Blade Storm and Smoke Screen instead.

Now on to SMOKE SCREEN

You made a good point Im not sure if I explained it but I stated only in Blade Storm You can recast SS, each smoke screen currently up should deactivate the last. Only 1 SS will be active at a time and Your duration will not stack or increase it will simply count down as now. I would say that the stun could last stun/choke could last half the SS's casted duration? I added the recastability to smoke screen in Blade Storm only for more utility and usage in BS, and each cloud deactivating for this question You made exactly which is stun locking entire rooms which I imagined would be a problem. I have become quiet adept at figuring some of the problems My ideas may offer this is My solution to keep some balance and not become an abusive Ash.

Now the idea of keeping Ash invisible while in Blade Storm is ideally a concept to add survival and elusiveness, I explained when attacking You always Break invisibility trading it off for Invulnerability. The idea was thought up because this style of Blade Storm requires You to do all the killing. Think about the negative effects it will have on Arcane Trickery which is something I use alot and alot of others have invested in whether it be plat raid grinds or trades its a quiet expensive piece to attain and max. Manually killing enemies Arcane Trickery will be harder to proc, currently we press 4 and Arcane Trickery procs 4-5 times lower levels, mid levels can proc 1-3 times and Higher levels may barely proc 1 time unless if You build more Power Strength. The idea is a balanced function to keep aggro off of Ash but You still take damage from other sources like toxic cloyds fire spread on floors etc. Invisibility doesnt grant immortality but its quiet close yes. If that doesnt fit then I guess a damage reduc while not attacking and immortality only when attacking an enemy?

Another idea I have is maybe scale Blade Storm off of certain Melee Mods, like Pressure Point of coarse and the crit chance mods, slash damage mods and the melee speed mods maybe? W.e works best imo to scale damage higher since this concept Ash will be taking enemies out One by one You wont be automatically rampaging and teleporting killing everything in a movie style animation soo I think making it deal more damage would be fair to keep up with the current Blade storm which Im sure it wont, Ash should excel at Assassinating each enemy and in a Fast manner. I hate seeing an Endless Blade Storm on Eximus and Sortie Juggernauts. Especially Boss fights its quiet annoying.

Just a few concepts I thought could fit his theme and make him feel more lethal and elusive.

I appreciate Your comprehensive replies You never cease to amaze with great questions Gurpgork :)

 Thank You, any further questions please feel free to ask and if You have any ideas please offer them Thanks Bro

 

[AKKILLA]

12 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

Thoughts : 

1. DO NOT NEED another channeled ultimate : Ash is a Ninja that focuses on takedowns, not brawling or prolonged fighting. A channeled Bladestorm on serves to encourage players to keep it on, seeking fights, when designing him to take out enemies ASAP should be the focus. (Just me reading Ash's current kit and his identity)

2. Teleport should have less prerequisites : Forcing an ability to only work with prerequisites ( Bladestorm, Bleed etc) is a TERRIBLE idea, and is NOT SYNERGY.

A Targeted Teleport would do fine just nicely. In fact, if yu want to promote synergy, have Teleport synergize with Smoke Screen, where Teleporting from a Smoke Screen brings the target into the Smoke Screen, making Teleport both a mobility skill as well as an offensive / defensive utility.

3. I DO NOT LIKE yur title of the thread : Ash is in no way similar to Loki and should not be compared. Loki is a trickster class who emphasizes on On- Field Sabotage. Ash is a Ninja who focuses on Take downs and Assassinations.

The only similarity is their current shared skill of "invisibility" which is a flawed thinking that every ninja should have a cloaking skill. 

 

PS: If yu love Ash, yu wouldn't "put him down because he is ruined" yu would relearn his new kit even if it is radically changed. 

NOT REPLYING TO THIS I ONLY READ PURE OPINIONS. YOURE OPINIONS ARE SUBJECTIVE TO YOUR LIKINGS BECAUSE YOU ARE A PRESS 4 TO WIN BOT.

lol. jk Late April Fools Joke!

Listen up Real Closely. Everything You said is based of Pure Opinions and Your'e personal Preference.

You dont want Blade Storm to change You like it as is I have spoken to You in a thread of Ash before, You said this before You prefer Fire and Forget. Cool thats what You like.

That still doesnt invalidate My concept, nor is keeping Blade Storm Fire and Forget a Good Concept because You just want to keep an auto Radial Nuke a good idea, Imo and not only mines but DE and a vast amount of the community want Interactive abilities. Press 4 and watch these cut scenes must Die! Its Seriously Boring and makes Me only Love Ash as a Real Ninja enthusiast but lets be real. 

BLADE STORM IS BORING AND UNENGAGING!

Quick Time Event shouldnt be a Blade Storm Concept this isnt a Triple A One Player Game. It promotes a Slow Blade Storm, basically manually doing Teleports to each chartacter to watch a animation one at a time STANCE BLADE STORM IS BETTER! Yea its just My opinion and its not forced on the Community, BUT!!!

I have solid Facts that I posted plenty times and it is My Ace Card to Why Ashs Blade Storm is Best to be an exception as a Stance because it makes SENSE

Must I link again? ;)

  http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

Trivia

• ASH was the FIRST WARFRAME that had INNATE PHYSICAL WEAPONS associated with his frame, in this case his HIDDEN BLADES he uses in his BLADE STORM ability. The second frame with this innate physical weapon was Mesa and her Regulator pistols she uses in her Peacemaker ability.

Thats the Best and Most Solid proof to why Blade Storm reworked as a Stance is a great exception. You cant argue with Facts only disagree as its Your Subjective Opinions in Your Defense. Your False Claims of Loving and tryna make others feel like You have a Solid point is only a subjective statement. I made Great solid Points and I will continue to Push My idea and work on balancing it keeping it both viable and not too OP.

I get attacks from all angles I will deal with them accordingly to my best potential. Whether it positive or negative, Too OP or Too UP.

The correct answers are there I haven't done all this hard work for Free. I and another friend are already working on some concepts, I just downloaded Blender and Unreal Engine 4 ;)

Wish My lazy but luck on that :P

I have been conjuring this idea with Koga and a few others for a while and we want to make a rig for it to play around with it and display better in Forums. 

The Facts still exist in My comments and Ash isnt a Take down I believe You mean to say Finisher Kills, He is a Ninja that his Archtype  relies on Finisher/Stealth/Slash DoT. Not Takedowns. Your comments need to be better fabricated as You are clearly expressing Your opinions cool but please lay off the Salt. You only replied with Hatred, lol Like just fall back and chill. You seem to be a bit edgy and negative My thread isnt something thats Mandatory and being forced on You You need to stop playing or just get off of Forums if You are going to be soo negative. Its great to have your own opinion, just offer it in a more civil manner.

I pretty much Highlighted Your Hate shedding on Your reply. I am replying with sensible responses and Solid Facts to back it up along with keeping this Civil ;)

No need to be a Hater bro, Just chill fall back I got this.

Youre NOT SYNERGY reply is just as subjective and Hate as everything You said. This thread isnt for You if Your blood is boiling and gonna reply nothing but Hate with nothing solid to provide and Base it off of except

PLEASE DONT NERF PRESS 4 TO CUT SCENE CUZ I LAZY

Has no solidity. Its all there man just take some time and read the Wikia Trivia on Ash its like the 4th line down i believe. This aint stuff made up its there and its REAL

Ash is the First Frame with a Weapon in his ability, and its not a Primary or Secondary but a MELEE and for some strange reason DE implemented QUICKENING to affect its Speed? I cant try to convince You but I can sure offer the Facts and Truth. 

Like it or not.

Ashs is a Melee Frame and a Stance Fits BLADE STORM AND HIS HIDDEN BLADES

Your Loki Trivia is only another Opinion as You dont know why I posted that. Loki and Ash have and always will be compared by this community and You know its true I have witnessed it as a noob and I have been here since september 2013

People always say

WHY PLAY ASH WHEN YOU CAN LOKI?

Not everyone but its a Huge troll that lives in a vast amount who dont like Ash and prefer Loki. That was the reason for the Title.

Ash is a Ninja and a Stance Makes Sense I will say this with solid Facts what can You provide or counter respond with Facts and not Opinions please.

 

[AKKILLA]

12 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I don’t like the idea of making yet another Warframe have an “Exalted weapon.” I think Bladestorm could be reworked to have similar mechanics but be useful without being ridiculous.

Cool Your opinion

IMO with Wikias Trivia Ash was the First Warframe with a Innate weapon in his ability and thats BLADE STORM

Those HIDDEN BLADES are a MELEE WEAPON that are already CHANNELED with QUICKENING because DE secretly intend on a STANCE BLADE STORM because its already there in the Trivia Facts and it should have been this way all along.

Need a Link? ;) I can provide the truth again and again My friend 

Spoiler

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

Trivia

• Ash was the first Warframe that had innate physical weapons associated with his frame, in this case his hidden blades he uses in his Blade Storm ability. The second frame with this innate physical weapon was Mesa and her Regulator pistols she uses in her Peacemaker ability.

 

[--Q--uaint]

3 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Cool Your opinion

The amount of capital letters and bolding in your post is making it very hard to take you seriously.

5 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

its already there in the Trivia Facts

Intent is not in the trivia, only that it was the first physical weapon tied to a 'frame. 

5 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

it should have been this way all along.

I believe this is my cue to quote someone who said something not long ago…

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Cool Your opinion

 

[AKKILLA]

11 hours ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

Well, considering the announced changes to come and the current state of various other frames, (I'm looking at you Hydroid, Limbo, and Oberon) I'd say Ash is in a decent spot.  Is he perfect?  No.  He has a job and he does it well.  In fact, I'd argue he's the best at it barring a few niche situations.  Now my review of your proposed changes:

Shuriken:  More projectiles, and mod scaling?  Seems a bit overpowered, espcially for a 1.  Converting it to finisher damage in keeping with his role and the rest of his kit and adjusting the targetting on the other hand would go a long way.  While added utility would be welcome, your suggestion for incorporating a teleport seems kinda clunkly, especially when you take into account how many enemies one can affect with shuriken in a short time.  Your increases shuriken count would only compound this.  Also, you never specified how one would use this teleport.  No follow up shuriken?  Long press of 1?  Priority target for 3?  In keeping with the increased mobility theme, it would probably be best to have shuriken that don't strike a foe to become targetable for a brief duration.  This would add actual synergy with Teleport rather than forcing skills to be used together.  It would also fit with Ash's mobility and serve a similar role to Loki's Decoy/Switch Teleport and Ivara's Dashwire Arrow.

Smoke Screen:  While I am not opposed to increasing its CC abilities, (ideally I'd like to see a blind with a decent duration, say 4 seconds affected by duration mods) a lingering cloud seems a bit unbalanced when you consider the utility already offered and its cheap cost.  This is why I said it would serve better as an Augment in your other thread.  Now mind you, this would also mean it would be limited and balanced.  As far as Smoke Shadow goes, so few use it because it is so underwelming.  This is more a problem with the augment.  I'd argue doubling the range would be a great start.  Though I'd say the main reason most Ash players don't have a workable Smoke Screen is due to Transient Fortitude and Fleeting Expertise.  More mod variety would make these mods less desirable.  With comparable mods, there would be more build variety.  Then, while people might not spec especially for Smoke Screen, they could still use a decent one.  While I like the ability of being able to cast Smoke Screen while in the air, it would have more utility if it were to affect Ash while he was airborne.  Especially considering Ash's kit, this is a skill that really should be able to be cast on the move.

Teleport:  I already addressed they Shuriken synergy above.  The cloud targetting is too flawed.  One of the main complaints already is the unreliable targetting.  Now imagine a high-priority target in the cloud.  It is very likely that the ability to finish the target quickly could be hindered.  As for the repeat teleports, it'd be better to cut the enegery costs such as with Valkyr's Rip Line.  I'd also suggest increasing the window this is available on account of finishers.

Blade Storm:  I have already addressed the many problems with your proposed rework of Blade Storm in the thread you posted about it.  Put simply, many Ash players don't like the Exalted Blade Storm playstyle.  We want to target someone from across the room and stab them and their friends in the throat.  We don't want another Exalted Blade clone.  Also, forced synergy is not fun.  It cripples a frame's kit and often forces them to bring their entire kit to bear just to get the necessary use out of it.  The proposed changes you mentioned here are too imbalanced.  It looks like you just adopted suggestions you received from your rework thread and put them here to appease people.  This current form you proposed will not fly, and to make it fly, you're going to lose a lot.  It would probably be many of the things Ash players really enjoy about it too.

There you go hyping up Smoke Shadow again.  All of Ash's augments come off as underwhelming, especially this one.  You're completely disregarding Ash's primary role in the group.  You might be content to be a jack of all trades and master of none, but me?  In the immortal words of the Wolverine, "I'm the best there is at what I do but what I do best isn't very nice."

 

Like I responded to Gurpgork

1st ABILITIES SCALED OFF MELEE MODS

Spoiler

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibur

AbilitiesEdit

	ENERGY 25 KEY 1	Slash Dash Dash between enemies while slashing with the Exalted Blade.	Strength:100 / 125 / 200 / 250
			Duration:N/A
			Range:6 / 8 / 10 / 12 m

• INFO
• AUGMENT
• TIPS & TRICKS
• MAXIMIZATION
• BUGS

Slash Dash is also affected by equipped melee mods including:

• Base damage (e.g., Steel Charge), elemental damage, and physical damage mods.
• Slash Dash's base damage uses the following expression when accounting for Power Strength:Modified Base Damage = Base Damage × (1 + Base Damage Bonus) × (1 + Power Strength). As an example, with a maxed Steel Charge, Pressure Point, and Intensify, a rank-3 Slash Dash will have 250 × 2.8 × 1.3 = 910 base damage.

Spoiler

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Landslide

Landslide

•  
•  
•  

2,611PAGES ON
THIS WIKI

 Edit   Comments48

	ENERGY 25 KEY 1	Landslide Bash enemies with an exploding sliding punch, repeat for a devastating combo.	Strength:[1 hit] 100 / 200 / 300 / 350 [2 hits] 200 / 400 / 600 / 700 [3+ hits] 400 / 800 / 1200 / 1,400
			Duration:1 s (combo window)
			Range:8 / 10 / 12 / 15 m (dash range) [1 hit] 1.5 m (impact radius) [2 hits] 3.0 m (impact radius) [3+ hits] 4.5 m (impact radius)

• INFO
• TIPS & TRICKS
• MAXIMIZATION

Landslide is affected by certain melee mods including base damage (e.g. Steel Charge),  Impact damage, elemental damage, critical damage, critical chance, and status chance mods.

• Does not include weapon augments or class-specific mods (e.g. Covert Lethality)
• Landslide is not affected by the Tenno's equipped melee weapon or stat-modifying weapon skins (e.g.Manticore).

Not all the melee mods but there it is, Your counter Proof to why a 1st Ability could use melee mod scaling, and if You wanna claim Shuriken is a Secondary?

Ok, lets shed light that shuriken is actually an ability? on a Melee frame and lets say its more like an Energy Glaive and thats why it scales off Melee ;)

 

[AKKILLA]

20 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

The amount of capital letters and bolding in your post is making it very hard to take you seriously.

Intent is not in the trivia, only that it was the first physical weapon tied to a 'frame. 

I believe this is my cue to quote someone who said something not long ago…

 

Ill make a note of that, I figured an Ash rework thread will rustle up a few emotions as it always will but lets be honest here.

You and everyone who doesnt agree are as Flawed as My statements when it boils down to Facts.

Well I atleast provide a very well thought not perfect but hardly comprised ideas to fix Ash with in Game Facts and Trivia from the Wikia not just My fantasy. I believe it holds some Solidity to My opinion. I am sure there are individuals out there who do like this idea, for the most part Its been more nay sayers although Gurpgork offered some actual Civility and great replies instead of expressing Total Fanboy tantrum and childishness.

Yes I do hold a Solid ground on this concept along with a few others that dont forum, but seems the majority who forum will try to Over rule an Idea and it still doesnt invalidate My idea not one bit it only Motivates Me to keep tweaking and Balancing it out to Perfection.

Im here to have fun and offer great help not to nag at anyone, dont like the idea cool. Your opinion You dont have too. You decide to reply just keep it Civil and Respectful, and try to atleast offer some type of help or facts instead of just saying you hate this you hate that.

I cant take any of You children serious when You constantly respond as I dont like or I Hate.

Dont reply then. This thread isnt for You move on dont come here to start hatred and lock threads because You cant compose Yourself as a Mature Adult

Edited April 3, 2016 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

You're at it again, Killa. Good for you! You know where I stand.

#AshReworkArmyFTW

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

You're at it again, Killa. Good for you! You know where I stand.

#AshReworkArmyFTW

You already know I stand Strong cant nobody knock Me down.

But I will be honest they are fighting Me pretty Hard Im not seeing much support from the community most of the guys must be sleep or working lol

Help Me out Im getting Jumped here lol :P

These guys are relentless but soo am I ;)