Saryn's DPS

[S0V3REiGN]

So today, while only using her for only 1% of the time I have reached 50,000 kills with Saryn Prime. :D I think her DPS is just fine, 

[ThatOddDeer]

3 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:

So today, while only using her for only 1% of the time I have reached 50,000 kills with Saryn Prime. :D I think her DPS is just fine, 

killing trash mobs + anecdotal evidence is not proof. 

[Rambit23Z]

12 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Grenier are certainly not more dangerous then corrupted, this would not do the cluster F*** of 90% healer damage reduction, nullifiers and speed trigger bombards justice. Radiation just means that you should cheese it, because it is even multiple times worse then 3x damage in T4 for a melee frame.

The reason why I consider Corrupted less dangerous than Grineer is because most of their damage can be avoided by staying mobile. Grineer on the other hand is 90% hit-scan. That, and I have no issues with singling out specific targets in a crowd. (Ancients, Nullifiers)

12 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Saryn is not the only frame that requires skill for melee, Ember is a lot worse, Mag is actually a absolute player skill challenge(and yes I did over 1h in void survival with her melee only) since it is not even about AOE CC, but AOE damage redirection while you kill melee targets around a target that you have to keep alive. Then again Mag is most likely the weirdest thing to play melee, since you don't use vitality, QT, rage or life strike but 100% ranged damage immunity as long as you maintain your range to your BA trarget and shields, what you refresh by pressing 2.

Yes, but they are not melee frames, of course it's going to be more difficult to melee efficiently with a caster frame. It's like bringing Mag to Grineer missions. (That is, until her rework goes live)

Edited April 14, 2016 by Rambit23Z

[S0V3REiGN]

6 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

killing trash mobs + anecdotal evidence is not proof. 

Lol... I take her everywhere, sorties survivals (grinner, corpus and infested), sortie interceptions, void survivals, jordis raids, Draco, moon missions, ODD, Pluto infested excavation. Believe whatever you want believe.

Edited April 14, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[ThatOddDeer]

2 hours ago, S0V3REiGN said:

Lol... I take her everywhere, sorties survivals (grinner, corpus and infested), sortie interceptions, void survivals, jordis raids, Draco, moon missions, ODD, Pluto infested excavation. Believe whatever you want believe.

Anecdotal evidence is not proof.

Most of what you have stated are joke missions.

[akira_him]

2 hours ago, S0V3REiGN said:

Lol... I take her everywhere, sorties survivals (grinner, corpus and infested), sortie interceptions, void survivals, jordis raids, Draco, moon missions, ODD, Pluto infested excavation. Believe whatever you want believe.

You can still kill with your gun, which doesn't having any meaning in what this thread is now discussing

[S0V3REiGN]

13 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Anecdotal evidence is not proof.

Most of what you have stated are joke missions.

You misunderstand, you see I didn't post this here to ask for your approval. I am also not here for you to tell what I should or should not play. I play the star map as I please.

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, S0V3REiGN said:

You misunderstand, you see I didn't post this here to ask for your approval. I am also not here for you to tell what I should or should not play. I play the star map as I please.

Then please remove your baseless discussion and anecdotal evidence. You posted something almost 100% irellevant to the topic at hand and when shot down you try to hide behind the excuse "I do what I want" 

If you have nothing meaningful or constructive to add why did you click submit reply?

[S0V3REiGN]

11 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Then please remove your baseless discussion and anecdotal evidence. You posted something almost 100% irellevant to the topic at hand and when shot down you try to hide behind the excuse "I do what I want" 

If you have nothing meaningful or constructive to add why did you click submit reply?

This is a forum to discuss warframes, when did you get branded the Forum police so that I can't posts about my experience with Saryn? Hell didn't even make any real statements on it just showing what I have managed with her yet you are here trying to be all hardazz telling people what they should do or not do.

Edited April 14, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[ThatOddDeer]

@akira_him

Let's discuss what direction Molt could take.

We discussed the possibilities of letting molt scale with saryn's hp/armor ALA tectonics and letting it stay at 2 hp for 2-4 seconds ALA iron skin/snowglobe combined with quick thinking.

I'm partial to the second option myself but could the first one be considered?

[akira_him]

37 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

@akira_him

Let's discuss what direction Molt could take.

We discussed the possibilities of letting molt scale with saryn's hp/armor ALA tectonics and letting it stay at 2 hp for 2-4 seconds ALA iron skin/snowglobe combined with quick thinking.

I'm partial to the second option myself but could the first one be considered?

For consistency to other health based abilities, first option alone will be fine

I just want to detonate it without recasting another molt

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, akira_him said:

For consistency to other health based abilities, first option alone will be fine

I just want to detonate it without recasting another molt

But for consistency for with the other health/armor based abilties it should also have a period where it can NOT explode, because it surviving to draw aggro and power up miasma is just as important as it detonating.

[akira_him]

5 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

But for consistency for with the other health/armor based abilties it should also have a period where it can NOT explode, because it surviving to draw aggro and power up miasma is just as important as it detonating.

I meant to say it should be the same as iron skin, sorry for misreading your post

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, akira_him said:

I meant to say it should be the same as iron skin, sorry for misreading your post

It's not a problem now that you've had the chance to correct yourself.

I think it needs to be slightly different than iron skin, where it sits at a low value of hp, and maybe absorbing a portion of the damage dealt rather than all, and can then be detonated by miasma for maximum effect. This allows a skilled saryn player to figure out if it's better to pop the molt at minimum hp or allow it to continue to draw aggro for her ( assuming we fix all the old bugs with molt).

[blaes]

17 hours ago, Djego27 said:

You will never use devouring since a single finisher heals you up to full HP with a R1 life strike

You don't even need life strike on inaros due to dessication granting life leech on affected enemies. And to top it off, he's got passive life leech on finishers.

17 hours ago, Djego27 said:

I have no idea how you calculate 60k on your chroma, given that mine got 17k if you not take QT into account what feels more or less like Inaros(since both HP pools are very close to each other 1h into T4S).

V

On 11/4/2016 at 7:29 PM, blaes said:

actually, depends what we're talking about.

cold elemental ward's armour bonus is based on the raw armour from the frame (350 for chroma), without steel fiber. and it stack additively with the base armor affected by steel fiber.

vex armour's bonus is multiplicative with everything (and affected by power strength).

the formula goes : total_armour = base_armour * (1 + steel_fiber + elemental ward * power_strength) * vex_armour * power_strength

the max you can reach (299% power strength and max steel fibre) is max_armour = 350 * (1 + 1.1 + 1.5 * 2.99) * 3.5 * 2.99 = 24 119

a bit over 24k armour (or 98.77% damage reduction). along with a *6.23 damage multiplier. enjoy.

EHP = 740 * (1 + 24119 / 300) = ~60233.

Yeah, that requires you to completely drop range/efficiency, but who cares? At least I don't.

17 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Saryn is not the only frame that requires skill for melee, Ember is a lot worse, Mag is actually a absolute player skill challenge

Except saryn is supposed to go melee, ember and mag aren't.

Which leads back to saryn and her utter lack of any decent mitigation compared to any other melee-oriented frame.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

3 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

I honestly@akira_him

Let's discuss what direction Molt could take.

We discussed the possibilities of letting molt scale with saryn's hp/armor ALA tectonics and letting it stay at 2 hp for 2-4 seconds ALA iron skin/snowglobe combined with quick thinking.

I'm partial to the second option myself but could the first one be considered?

That seems like a really good idea, the second option I mean. I've seen it quite a few times on this post. The latter would be awesome as well, but we already have the same in SG, Tectonics, IS etc. To have the same but the inverted effect would be something new. Also, the 3 second timer could pop up, giving you the amount of time you have left to get the most damage out of Miasma.

[ThatOddDeer]

1 hour ago, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx said:

That seems like a really good idea, the second option I mean. I've seen it quite a few times on this post. The latter would be awesome as well, but we already have the same in SG, Tectonics, IS etc. To have the same but the inverted effect would be something new. Also, the 3 second timer could pop up, giving you the amount of time you have left to get the most damage out of Miasma.

The timer sounds like a good idea. 

However I'd be fine with scrapping the damage boost to miasma if we turn miasma into an AoE that follows Saryn that shred armor rather than being a goop-spray whose CC doesn't scale and is a boring radial nuke.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

21 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

The timer sounds like a good idea. 

However I'd be fine with scrapping the damage boost to miasma if we turn miasma into an AoE that follows Saryn that shred armor rather than being a goop-spray whose CC doesn't scale and is a boring radial nuke.

THAT...THAT right there has been ANOTHER thing I have seen that's gone through cycles through many threads. And I have liked that idea most of all.  The ability for Miasma to actually melt armor. And you are completely right. Miasma doesn't have to do absurd amounts of damage, because its utility should compensate for it. Though I don't think it can only happen through multiple corrosive procs, maybe it can be percentage based. Kind of similar to how Avalanche works. She can be the best at applying procs, but her procs fall off when you're messing around with high amounts of armor. If her ult can do that job, then the rest of her abilities should be able to handle the rest, it seems like a fair compromise considering that her ult, just doesn't feel, 'ultimate', forgive me if my description sounds kind of vague, I honestly don't know how to explain it lol

Edited April 14, 2016 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[ThatOddDeer]

1 minute ago, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx said:

THAT...THAT right there has been ANOTHER thing I have seen that's gone through cycles through many threads. And I have liked that idea most of all.  The ability for Miasma to actually melt armor. And you are completely right. Miasma doesn't have to do absurd amounts of damage, because its utility should compensate for it. Though I don't think it can only happen through multiple corrosive procs, maybe it can be percentage based. Kind of similar to how Avalanche works. She can be the best at applying procs, but her procs fall off when you're messing around with high amounts of armor. If her ult can do that job, then the rest of her abilities should be able to handle the rest, it seems like a fair compromise considering that her ult, just doesn't feel, 'ultimate', forgive me if my statement sounds kind of vague, I honestly don't know how to explain it lol

It's alright, many in this thread have agreed to this idea as a whole, at least miasma shredding armor, since it;s a corrosive blastwave when avalanche is just ice???

Corrosive proc is currently too weak to function for this purpose and % max armor shred, like avalanche, should be the solution. It's old pre-rework description called it a "flesh and armor melting gas" and why it doesn't melt armor but ice/fear/healing/sound/metal shurikens do is beyond me.

[Klistyr]

So i found this thread today and read through like half of it already. As stated several times already most of saryns kit has very little use except spores. First saryns skill is just amazing in several aspects. Massive range of spread, health reduction and of course dmg. But what about the rest of her kit. She is supposed to be hybrid melee/caster frame, but as she is now its impossible on higher lvls. 

My main problem with her is that her second ability which is supposed to help her to be in melee range just does not fulfill that role. But what if Dmg that saryn takes was transfered (certain percantage) to her clone. And her clone would automatically detonate after losing certain percantage of its HP. That would result in increasing the power of clone+spore synergy and enabling saryn to stay in melee range. But would this make her melee frame? No. She would be just tanky + better spore spread. To make her trully melee spec we would need to rework mainly her ult. As it is now its really nice CC and thats about it. But what if it was changed into aura. Consuming energy in similar fashion to excal and every few secs sending out of saryn pulse that would detonate and spores around saryn in similar fashion as it is now.

What to do with her third ability im not sure. Its quite nice dmg boost but how could developers make it to synergize with her other abilities i dont know.

Thx for reading this horrible mess of my ideas guys. And sorry for my english not a native speaker.

[ThatOddDeer]

39 minutes ago, Klistyr said:

-snip-

Thx for reading this horrible mess of my ideas guys. And sorry for my english not a native speaker.

I suggest reading my posts on the last 4-5 pages. I've outlined a clear-cut path to fix her bugs and make her into the more melee-oriented frame she seems to intended to be by [DE]

[Xarteros]

7 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

It's alright, many in this thread have agreed to this idea as a whole, at least miasma shredding armor, since it;s a corrosive blastwave when avalanche is just ice???

Corrosive proc is currently too weak to function for this purpose and % max armor shred, like avalanche, should be the solution. It's old pre-rework description called it a "flesh and armor melting gas" and why it doesn't melt armor but ice/fear/healing/sound/metal shurikens do is beyond me.

Just commenting in terms of themes, not being nitpicky

I think the notion of Avalanche breaking armour is thematically fitting, metal becomes increasingly brittle as its temperature drops and if it drops enough it can literally just snap. I can understand sonic vibrations weakening metal as well, seeing as high enough frequencies can shatter objects with the sound alone. Terrify almost makes sense, if an enemy is running away, they aren't making full use of their armour and might be opening themselves up to attack, but if anything that would be closer to a weakpoint system like Sonar than an actual armour reduction. Ablating Link and Seeking Shuriken don't make any real sense though.

If Miasma were to get proper armour shredding, I'd be perfectly fine in balancing its damage downward (even though it's not great anyway) so that it's more solidly based around debuffing.

If it were a cloud-based effect that follows Saryn (Like WoF or Maim), would you go Channeling or Duration? I'd personally prefer Duration, since channeling would press too much dependency on efficiency and just water down her mod builds.

I'm still a bit torn as to which style of Miasma I would prefer as default. On the one hand, to suit the theme of melee focus it would be useful to have the effect follow you so it doesn't need to be re-cast as often. However, depending on the duration of a static cloud version, it might be more useful to be able to deploy a few to either increase your combat area, or have some active clouds at nearby choke points to shred enemies before they even get close to you.

As a side note to her survivability, for either style of persistent cloud effect (instead of goop spray) would a penalty to enemy accuracy be useful? Thematically, it's harder to precisely target someone in the cloud, it could make the ability slightly more useful to defend key points (damaging/armour melting melee combatants and diminishing long ranged attack accuracy). I know it's not necessarily an ideal usage of the power in all cases, but do you guys think it would be useful/fitting?

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Just commenting in terms of themes, not being nitpicky

I think the notion of Avalanche breaking armour is thematically fitting, metal becomes increasingly brittle as its temperature drops and if it drops enough it can literally just snap. I can understand sonic vibrations weakening metal as well, seeing as high enough frequencies can shatter objects with the sound alone. Terrify almost makes sense, if an enemy is running away, they aren't making full use of their armour and might be opening themselves up to attack, but if anything that would be closer to a weakpoint system like Sonar than an actual armour reduction. Ablating Link and Seeking Shuriken don't make any real sense though.

If Miasma were to get proper armour shredding, I'd be perfectly fine in balancing its damage downward (even though it's not great anyway) so that it's more solidly based around debuffing.

If it were a cloud-based effect that follows Saryn (Like WoF or Maim), would you go Channeling or Duration? I'd personally prefer Duration, since channeling would press too much dependency on efficiency and just water down her mod builds.

I'm still a bit torn as to which style of Miasma I would prefer as default. On the one hand, to suit the theme of melee focus it would be useful to have the effect follow you so it doesn't need to be re-cast as often. However, depending on the duration of a static cloud version, it might be more useful to be able to deploy a few to either increase your combat area, or have some active clouds at nearby choke points to shred enemies before they even get close to you.

As a side note to her survivability, for either style of persistent cloud effect (instead of goop spray) would a penalty to enemy accuracy be useful? Thematically, it's harder to precisely target someone in the cloud, it could make the ability slightly more useful to defend key points (damaging/armour melting melee combatants and diminishing long ranged attack accuracy). I know it's not necessarily an ideal usage of the power in all cases, but do you guys think it would be useful/fitting?

I know of how ice/sound/fear can make armor less effective but my argument was they made LESS sense than corrosive at least in a warframe player's mind. I'm willing to say channeled-based rather than duration because that means duration also plays into its energy cost. As to making it harder to shoot saryn, maybe make use of the evasion stat that agility drift offers, simulating how its harder to hit an enemy in a cloud of gas.

[Xarteros]

1 minute ago, ThatOddDeer said:

I know of how ice/sound/fear can make armor less effective but my argument was they made LESS sense than corrosive at least in a warframe player's mind. I'm willing to say channeled-based rather than duration because that means duration also plays into its energy cost. As to making it harder to shoot saryn, maybe make use of the evasion stat that agility drift offers, simulating how its harder to hit an enemy in a cloud of gas.

That's fair enough, I'd really need to make a different build to run a channelled power either way though, since I usually run at negative efficiency and slightly negative duration XD

Evasion seems to be the perfect stat I was looking for, I was actually thinking of the Elytron Archwing's Core Vent cloud, but apparently that only blocks missiles and projectiles that enter the cloud.

On that note, it'd be interesting if Bombard/Napalm etc projectiles were to explode upon entering the Miasma cloud, but I feel like adding that in as a feature would just be stacking more and more unnecessary complexity on the ability. Maybe as an augment mod (with an added chance to melt normal bullets too) or something?

[ThatOddDeer]

3 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

That's fair enough, I'd really need to make a different build to run a channelled power either way though, since I usually run at negative efficiency and slightly negative duration XD

Evasion seems to be the perfect stat I was looking for, I was actually thinking of the Elytron Archwing's Core Vent cloud, but apparently that only blocks missiles and projectiles that enter the cloud.

On that note, it'd be interesting if Bombard/Napalm etc projectiles were to explode upon entering the Miasma cloud, but I feel like adding that in as a feature would just be stacking more and more unnecessary complexity on the ability. Maybe as an augment mod (with an added chance to melt normal bullets too) or something?

miasma doesn't really need an augment. I think just letting it shred armor and grant evasion as saryn uses it in a channeled form would be perfectly alright