Saryn's DPS

[(PSN)Cwellann]

13 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

Okay go to simulacrum

 

6 minutes ago, ForumPirate said:

She would actually fare better against 20 level 135 heavy gunners than she would just 1 because that's an environment where her damage can actually ramp up like it is supposed to

How many times do we have to beat this horse?  The enemy limit in the Simulacrum trashes what Saryn can do - she's at her best, as @ForumPirate and so, so, so many others have said, when there's a massive horde.  That's how she kills a heavy, by bouncing 89,731,231 (no more, no less) spores all over the entire tile and killing the heavies through massive, widespread disease.  Trash mobs act like fuel for her, and the Simulacrum is incapable of demonstrating this.  By the time you get it going with any kind of a decent Saryn build, you're out of mobs.

And I, personally, am really confused about how we all whine about synergy all the time, and then when we get a chance to make up some neat loadouts, we whine about being limited.  Just sayin'.

Sorry if this came off irritated, but that video from someone with 1 post... haha, ha... ha... oh dangit.  Nicely done OP.  Well trolled, ya got me.

[ashrah]

saryn is simple bad now...why would someone play saryn wen will nova overshadow saryn in every possible way

[(PSN)COGSPARTAN117]

This is not synergy. This is called dependency.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

1 hour ago, Eureka.seveN said:

So the only way to reach high dps is to use only 10/200 or so weapons in the game real balance.

And lets be honest here the only thing that sayrn has going for her is her spores. Her miasma is terrible considering the amout of work you have to put into it to get it to work. I love sayrn but nothing can do her justice here. Nothing works

On Consoles there are Currently 234 Weapons

90 Of Which Are Melee -10 Accounting For Primes Leaves 80 -2 Mk1 =78

Lets Be Generous and Say that 2 Thirds of those are Actually Useful so 52 Melee Weapons to Choose From

And Mod However You Like... Oh Wait There's Only 1 Weapon For Such an Excalibur and That's Exalted Blade

Any Chosen Weapon Is inconsequential to Excalibur As he Mashes E with Exalted Blade

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

Another thing people just absolutely love to leave out is that Saryn is also best in team play. Saryn isn't meant to murder heavy single target enemies. She's meant to make your allies have an easier time taking out heavy targets.

Edited April 4, 2016 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[Gurpgork]

47 minutes ago, ashrah said:

why would someone play saryn wen will nova overshadow saryn in every possible way

Well because Saryn provides the same DPS increase for a team, but can spread it further, faster, and sustain it as long as enemies keep spawning, on top of being able to spread and stack Toxin DoTs alongside the DPS increase, all for a quarter of the cost of Molecular Prime. Not to mention that you don't need to cast Spores nearly as often as Molecular Prime, since Spores can spread to enemies unaffected by the initial cast and Molecular Prime can't. Furthermore, Saryn is more durable, can heal herself at will with an augment, instantly get rid of potentially fatal status procs on herself, can constantly pressure a mapful of enemies with indefinitely stacking DoTs, and can potentially quintuple her melee damage (considering the full duration of a Toxin proc) on top of her effective double damage from Spores. Plus she has an instant radial stun, which Nova does not. 

Yes, Saryn does fall short of Nova in a couple ways, but Nova does not overshadow Saryn in every possible way. That implies that Nova does everything that Saryn does better, which is absolutely not true. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Gurpgork

[calmchaos]

If you're of the opinion that Saryn can't do more damage than an Excal, you should probably read this thread: 

 

Saryn won't beat Excal in a short amount of time, but the longer you go in an endless mission the more likely you are to see Excal's damage suffer and Saryn's damage escalate until Excal can't possibly keep up. Let's see your beloved Excal hit entire rooms for millions of damage every second. There's a big difference between damage that starts low but can build infinitely compared to damage that starts high, can go up some, but then hit a damage ceiling. Everytime Saryn refreshes her spores with gas/toxin, it adds to the DoT damage. Exalted Blade stops doing more damage once you hit the combo meter cap, and then his usefulness can only go down from there because the enemies' HP only goes up.

Edited April 4, 2016 by calmchaos

[taiiat]

Youtube is a place for notoriously bad, misinformed, ignorant information being created by metaphorical hill billies. on rare occasions someone tries to break the trend but it's hard to find them alongside people that have no idea what they're doing with anything. not just Warframe, in general.

that's all i have to say about that.

- - - - - 

there's issues with the Abilities(many of which are well known), but Saryn under normal, non abusive situations fills the role of poisonous afflictions, venomous ailments, and other DoT related thematic things.

1 hour ago, ForumPirate said:

Spores is working exactly as intended, it's not some unintended exploit.

not quite. there's edge cases most people abuse to create completely unintended Spike Damage. or abusing exterior assistance that causes unintended results and even significant performance problems.

2 hours ago, Eureka.seveN said:

not stripping armor at all like it was intended

Miasma has never Stripped Armor.

Edited April 4, 2016 by taiiat

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

28 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Yes, Saryn does fall short of Nova in a couple ways, but Nova does not overshadow Saryn in every possible way. That implies that Nova does everything that Saryn does better, which is absolutely not true. 

I can attest to this, as someone that went from maining Nova to maining Saryn. 

[fatpig84]

The only thing Saryn needs on Miasma is more range.
She is not the instant killer nuke anymore, so her short range on ultimate is no longer needed.

More range means her DOT shoots up significantly.

[PrincessPilfer]

2 hours ago, (PS4)COGSPARTAN117 said:

This is not synergy. This is called dependency.

1: the interaction of elements that when combined produce a total effect that is greater than the sum of the individual elements, contributions, etc.; synergism

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/synergy

They're the same thing in this context, as in many others.

 

2: If you play saryn properly you don't need help from damage buffers, you don't even need energy pads. You should not use miasma often which means energy should be a non issue unless eximus drain it (and you're fool enough to let them) because she has a **** ton of it and spores is cheap and toxic lash has a middling cost but a very long duration. Fun fact, even if you do run completely dry the energy regen from toxic lash spore popping can and will get you up high enough to recast spores or toxic lash, or even a panic molt if you must, and (unlike other frames) her damage doesn't simply die if she runs out of mana because she can still pop spores and spread toxic.

 

3: In fact there are many weapons Saryn can use and several ways to play her. Ignus/throwing star rapid spore pop is just one. There is also sniper Saryn that creates huge toxic procs with a lanka to spread with spores and melee saryn who does basically the same thing but with toxic lash and a crit weapon creating those big procs. If there is a trinity on hand she can also go the miasma spam route, not that I know why you would considering there are better burst damage frames.

 

4. In fact she does not need corrosive projection to work. Part of the whole "damage stacking infinitly" thing is that the longer any given target lives through her attention the faster everything else dies because more and larget toxic procs are spread. Also, she permanently halves the hp of basically everything, which is a big deal all on it's own.

 

At this point I'm convinced that anyone who says saryn isn't powerful is a troll or a whiner complaining about the removal of their press 4 to win, or has no idea how to play her. Nobody could possibly be dumb enough to think anything else.

[alergiclaprosti]

18 minutes ago, ForumPirate said:

1: the interaction of elements that when combined produce a total effect that is greater than the sum of the individual elements, contributions, etc.; synergism

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/synergy

They're the same thing in this context, as in many others.

 

2: If you play saryn properly you don't need help from damage buffers, you don't even need energy pads. You should not use miasma often which means energy should be a non issue unless eximus drain it (and you're fool enough to let them) because she has a **** ton of it and spores is cheap and toxic lash has a middling cost but a very long duration. Fun fact, even if you do run completely dry the energy regen from toxic lash spore popping can and will get you up high enough to recast spores or toxic lash, or even a panic molt if you must, and (unlike other frames) her damage doesn't simply die if she runs out of mana because she can still pop spores and spread toxic.

 

3: In fact there are many weapons Saryn can use and several ways to play her. Ignus/throwing star rapid spore pop is just one. There is also sniper Saryn that creates huge toxic procs with a lanka to spread with spores and melee saryn who does basically the same thing but with toxic lash and a crit weapon creating those big procs. If there is a trinity on hand she can also go the miasma spam route, not that I know why you would considering there are better burst damage frames.

 

4. In fact she does not need corrosive projection to work. Part of the whole "damage stacking infinitly" thing is that the longer any given target lives through her attention the faster everything else dies because more and larget toxic procs are spread. Also, she permanently halves the hp of basically everything, which is a big deal all on it's own.

 

At this point I'm convinced that anyone who says saryn isn't powerful is a troll or a whiner complaining about the removal of their press 4 to win, or has no idea how to play her. Nobody could possibly be dumb enough to think anything else.

try that spore popping against a lvl 100 napalm. No, I'll be generous lvl 80. You would die after 2 shots. 

And remember  you say that you need spore popping to gain energy ..... so no Miasma to stun or Molt to regen and redirect.

[Suira]

2 hours ago, Eureka.seveN said:

Okay go to simulacrum

135 corrupted heavy gunner

135 corrupted Bombard

135 Ex mus Corrupted Bombard / Gunner (for funzies)

No armor debuffing mods, only using sayrn to debuff enemies

 

Show the warframe community that sayrn can either

A) debuff an enemy to the point where he is vulnerable this entails stripping his armor

B) Either instantly kill OR Severely damage (to half HP or lower) one of the units.

Currently (based on the video) Excal can pretty much kill heavy units in seconds but since they were 80. I would assume that it would take 10-16 seconds to kill a 135 (based on experience)

Because as of now This mod:

Does a better job at debuffing enemies than misama.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Eureka.seveN said:

While I agree that melee sayrn is good, along with every single frame that uses shadow step. Also toxin, is really only good versus corpus units for other enemy types it is not as optimal.

Miasma fundamentally does not kill as fast compared to other warframe ultimates. Even with the bonuses. The point of sayrn is to debuff the enemies to a point where they are most vulnerable then by casting misama as the final blow.

What we have now is miasma tickling the enemies, not stripping armor at all like it was intended and spore that is only op because you can exploit the hell out of the refresh time of the spores.

Could brozime's video be wrong, sure im sure there are situations where his results don't apply, but based on my time with sayrn, even going so far as to forma her to fully optimize my build simply does not reap the benefits of DPS like Excal, Ivara, Wukong nor does it debuff nor does it CC like Loki, Nova, Mirage, Etc..

You have 88k kills thats great, that means nothing for all that I know you could be playing sayrn on apollodorus or a 2 hour t4 survival and I wouldnt know any better. Regardless, I have yet to see video evidence of someone using the misama with debuffs to at least remove a chunk of a heavy units HP or armor.

Sure she can kill light targets, but so can my mk1 braton. If a debuff / dps frame cant stip / kill enemies with higher armor values then we have a frame that gets thrown into obscurity, and renamed as "the one with the largest bust"

Also sayrn does not have synergy, inaros has synergy, ivara has synergy, Excalibur has synergy...

 

Alright, I did it.

I assume you didn't do test anything, did you? Do you even understand how Saryn works? Why do you need video evidence of her being good when you can just go test for yourse-.. oh wait you would have poor results because you fail to understand how Saryn works.

So let me educate you.

#1 Why do you keep talking about Miasma? Just because it is her 4th ability does not make it her best ability.

#2 This is how you play Saryn. First, you apply Spore and secondly you pop that spore to spread it around. Now you can do this with a melee weapon and Saryn 3rd ability Toxic Lash or you can do this with other weapons such as the Amprex, Hikou Prime or Ignis. This synergy between placing spore on an enemy and then popping it to spread it to other enemies is Saryn's bread and butter.
But wait, there's more. Build for gas on your weapon to increase your damage. This SYNERGIZES with how SPORE works. Get it?
SYNERGY! THERE'S SYNERGY!

 

I'm sorry but I can barely take you seriously with the way you talk. You kind of sound like an idiot to me, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

Now go test before you decide to be a keyboard warrior.

Well, you know what since I am such a nice guy I will test everything for you.
(figure about + or - 2 seconds or so on everything)
I also used Naramon for these tests so that I didn't die... a lot.

Excal- Single Target test
Level 135 Corrupted Heavy Gunner
Berserker EB build with Shattering Impact and Corrosive

Enemy at range- 20 seconds
Enemy within melee range- 6 seconds

Excal- Multi Target test
20 Level 135 Corrupted Heavy Gunners
Berserker EB build with Shattering Impact and Corrosive

Enemies at range- 40 seconds
Enemies within melee range- 55 seconds
(largely impart to enemies getting ragdolled away so at the end I had like 4 or 5 enemies spread out in weird locations, would ultimately be better than at range by probably 5 - 10 seconds)

Saryn- Single Target test
Level 135 Corrupted Heavy Gunner
War Berserker build with Shattering Impact and Gas

Enemy within melee range- 32 seconds

Saryn- Multi Target test
20 Level 135 Corrupted Heavy Gunners
War Berserker build with Shattering Impact and Gas

Enemies within melee range- 65 seconds
(Mainly because I couldn't attack all of the targets at the same time like Excal can. I am forced to attack a smaller % at once.)

 

So yes, in this test Excal is clearly better at killing than Saryn. There are a few variables between the 2 that shows off their individual strengths like Saryn gets all of her energy back while excal loses his. If Saryn sees a disrupter she doesn't really care because her spores are already spreading around, but if Excal comes close to one he could lose the ability to use EB. Excal can only attack in front of him while Saryn repeatably nukes the area around her target.
Also, Saryn would do more damage in scenarios with 4 CP. Excal would too, but it is hard to compare their damage output.

Anyways, why did you want to compare Excal to Saryn in the first place. They are like 2 completely different frames?

[akira_him]

This video only showed how suck miasma is as a "ultimate"
Saryn sucks because the lack of variety of using her, she can only be viable with the starter pack weapons or shadowstep

Spoiler

4 hours ago, (PS4)COGSPARTAN117 said:

This is not synergy. This is called dependency.

No other warframes need a specific weapon to be viable, and this rework didn't fixed what it intended to fix: most of the player use a single ability(b4: miasma, now spore) and just that ability worth using.

Edited April 4, 2016 by akira_him
format fix

[alergiclaprosti]

3 hours ago, Suira said:

#1 Why do you keep talking about Miasma? Just because it is her 4th ability does not make it her best ability.

It's her 100 energy ability ..... in a normal world, it would be her best.

This video is old ......... comparing it to Excalibur, hmm what about Inaros???

Many of you people respond to this kind of posts by showing how you  think you are good at this game.

Most of you try to show how one weapon is balanced by finding that specific scenario where your point is valid, ignoring the fact that it will never happen in a "world vs you" scenario as this game has a lot of. 

You talk about the time it takes you to kill lvl 135 stuff .... one by one.... which never happens when you really play this game.

Even so ..... I saw there 25 seconds, 35 seconds, etc. If it takes you 35 seconds to kill one enemy, I'm sorry to say but ..... your strategy or weapon choice is bad (for me any equipment from frame to companion is a weapon) because there are frames that can one shot that kind of enemy ... <cough> Ash <cough> Excalibur <cough> Valkyr <cough> Equinox.... man something was really itching my throat there.

For all you "PRO" players ..... stop trying to show us how "PRO" you are and stop being DE's lap dogs.

Edited April 4, 2016 by alergiclaprosti

[DarthyPoo]

I think the only thing that is wrong with Saryn is she doesnt have huge single target DPS. But it doesnt really matter anyway because before rework she was used to clear entire rooms. I have used Saryn once with concealed explosives and was like "wow thats pretty fuggin sweet" and went back to Mag Bae. But i still have her sitting there just waiting to still destroy, also Viral procs are amazing. We should have more stuff with Viral procs.

[Ivan_Rid]

Dude, come on, Gas does toxin procs which can be stacked indefenitely for potentialy infinite damage, and Spores can spread that proc around and bounce it back and forward stacking and refreshing every time until everything is dead. You can do Gas procs with redcrit headshots/redcrit melee multipliers for massive aoe dot damage.

Miasma is great for its stagger and thats pretty much it.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Just now, Ivan_Rid said:

Dude, come on, Gas does toxin procs which can be stacked indefenitely for potentialy infinite damage, and Spores can spread that proc around and bounce it back and forward stacking and refreshing every time until everything is dead. You can do Gas procs with redcrit headshots/redcrit melee multipliers for massive aoe dot damage.

Miasma is great for its stagger and thats pretty much it.

I love you

here have a steve carell meme <3

[Ivan_Rid]

38 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

@SuiraIt takes roughly 10 seconds (40 hits) with ankyros prime to melt and kill a 135 heavy gunner with shattering impact. Your turn sayrn and yes I use namaron too :)

It took me 43 seconds to take out 20 115lvl (I`m rank 17) corrupted gunners with unformaed Dual Ichors modded for gas, Spore cast and quick melee only.

edit: and ofc Toxic Lash, thats how I measured time actually.

edit2: It took me 36 seconds on a 3rd try, timer started the second I jumped off platform.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ivan_Rid

[calmchaos]

33 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

"longer you go on an endless mission"

You are missing the factors

1) You need CP

2) the concealed explosives weapon

Once again even in endurance runs, its the heavy units that count, at least excal can brush off those heavy units in seconds ESPECIALLY with finishers even if those enemies still got their armor. Those viral and toxin procs dont scale at all when the enemies have high armor.

Are you trying to tell me that your endurance runs are sans 4xCorrosive Projection/3xCP+3xCoaction? If you're going deep into endless missions without getting rid of the enemies' armor, then you're just setting yourself up for failure. Why use a different aura and be forced to bring a corrosive weapon when you can eliminate their armor altogether? Armor isn't an issue because the enemies shouldn't have any armor regardless of whether you're using Excal or Saryn.

No. That is only one of the weapon types that can be used. You can also use snipers such as the Lanka and other good toxin/status weapons like the Torid, Tysis, Dual Toxocyst, Lesion, Mios, and Ignis. Using a Concealed Explosives weapon is only one of your possible choices. Hek, even the Vaykor Marelok and Telos Akbolto work just fine for this purpose.

You seem to not be realizing that viral procs do scale since they automatically deduct 50% of the target's HP, and Saryn's use of toxin scales infinitely so long as there are enemies to spread spores to. Excal will hit a damage ceiling where he can't kill the enemies anymore in a respectable amount of time. Saryn will not because her damage actually goes up when the enemies get harder to kill. I think you're misunderstanding something. The heavies are part of the reason that Saryn can deal so much damage exactly because they aren't as easy to kill.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

14 minutes ago, Ivan_Rid said:

It took me 43 seconds to take out 20 115lvl (I`m rank 17) corrupted gunners with unformaed Dual Ichors modded for gas, Spore cast and quick melee only.

edit: and ofc Toxic Lash, thats how I measured time actually.

edit2: It took me 36 seconds on a 3rd try, timer started the second I jumped off platform.

I was referring to miasma , if you read my previous post I have no qualm with toxic lash

[Ivan_Rid]

1 minute ago, Eureka.seveN said:

I was referring to miasma , if you read my previous post I have no qualm with toxic lash

Well now when I look at it - Miasma is a most damaging radial nuke in the game right now, and makes all those infinitely scaling spores to burst simultaneously. Still, I use it mostly for its minor cc stagger and for getting a couple guaranteed regenerative molt ticks. Every frame has some lackluster abilities, sadly for Saryn its a Miasma.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

8 minutes ago, calmchaos said:

Are you trying to tell me that your endurance runs are sans 4xCorrosive Projection/3xCP+3xCoaction? If you're going deep into endless missions without getting rid of the enemies' armor, then you're just setting yourself up for failure. Why use a different aura and be forced to bring a corrosive weapon when you can eliminate their armor altogether? Armor isn't an issue because the enemies shouldn't have any armor regardless of whether you're using Excal or Saryn.

Yet here we are now, and some endurance runs are solo'd. So yea

 

8 minutes ago, calmchaos said:

No. That is only one of the weapon types that can be used. You can also use snipers such as the Lanka and other good toxin/status weapons like the Torid, Tysis, Dual Toxocyst, Lesion, Mios, and Ignis. Using a Concealed Explosives weapon is only one of your possible choices. Hek, even the Vaykor Marelok and Telos Akbolto work just fine for this purpose.

You seem to not be realizing that viral procs do scale since they automatically deduct 50% of the target's HP, and Saryn's use of toxin scales infinitely so long as there are enemies to spread spores to. Excal will hit a damage ceiling where he can't kill the enemies anymore in a respectable amount of time. Saryn will not because her damage actually goes up when the enemies get harder to kill. I think you're misunderstanding something. The heavies are part of the reason that Saryn can deal so much damage exactly because they aren't as easy to kill.

A ) thats still a restrictive selection comapred to every other frame

B ) Viral only reduces half HP (assuming flesh), a simple wiki post, with some studious commenter  can prove you otherwise http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Viral_Damage

2 minutes ago, Ivan_Rid said:

Well now when I look at it - Miasma is a most damaging radial nuke in the game right now, and makes all those infinitely scaling spores to burst simultaneously. Still, I use it mostly for its minor cc stagger and for getting a couple guaranteed regenerative molt ticks. Every frame has some lackluster abilities, sadly for Saryn its a Miasma.

But it's not, look at OPs video. It doesn't even reduce armor that much. And hes testing on a level 80, an enemy thats not even that strong.

 

[Ivan_Rid]

4 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

But it's not, look at OPs video. It doesn't even reduce armor that much. And hes testing on a level 80, an enemy thats not even that strong.

Well, of course it does not reduce armour, it does not cause Corrosive procs at all.

How many Radial Javelins would that Excalibur player had to use to take out that Bombard or whatever he is making a fool of himself in front of?

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

1 minute ago, Ivan_Rid said:

Well, of course it does not reduce armour, it does not cause Corrosive procs at all.

How many Radial Javelins would that Excalibur player had to use to take out that Bombard or whatever he is making a fool of himself in front of?

Thats what im getting at, if miasma does not even to much damage. Wouldn't it be more suitable for her to be able to melt armor? Since miasma does inflict corrosive damage