Master Thief Mod Should Start At 70% And Max Out At 100% Unlock Rate (Tldr)

[Luxangel7]

Please hear me out before you think this is unbalanced.

 

Currently the Master Thief mod gives you the chance to open a red locker. It starts at 10% and maxes out at 40%.

 

Maxed out this mod consumes 13 mod slots.

 

Without going too much into the math, giving me a 40% chance that has the "roll of the dice" being done for every single red locker effectively results in wildly inconsistent and frustrating results.

 

You could go a round and unlock literally almost every locker, or you could go a round and unlock ONE red locker. This is essentially an RNG mod.

 

On top of all this, consider that the contents of a locker are also RNG. You can open all the available lockers in a round and get nothing but credits, or get that resource box once in a while, or simply get nothing. In short: More RNG.

 

(and let's not even talk about the RNG to earn this mod in the first place)

 

Conclusion of Problem: Master thief mod takes up 13 mod slots, almost as much as a maxed out redirection (shield buff) mod, and in turn adds a layer of RNG on top of another layer of RNG in the game. (a chance for a chance at getting credits/resources) Resulting in an unsatisfying, inconsistent, and frustrating mod.

 

Solution: Introduce a mechanic for us to earn the right to eliminate the additional layer of RNG. In short, the suggestion in my thread title. By letting us fuse the mod to maximum, and letting it cap out at least at 90% if not 100%, the devs will be allowing us to get value for the trouble of earning the mod, value for the mod slot cost of the mod, and value/fair acceptance of opening another locker that drops a few credits or nothing at all.

 

Plus, bottom line: this mod would be insanely fun if it actually let us go on a "shopping spree" whenever we saw lockers, as it is now it ranks a 8.5/10 on the "meh" scale.

 

 

TLDR: To balance the RNG to the arguably 3rd power, and render thiefs mod both fun to use and balanced for its current cost, I propose that the % of success for opening a red locker be drastically increased to a minimum of 70% and a maximum of 90-100%.

Edited June 13, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[N4G4M4K1]

No.

[Luxangel7]

No.

 

Wow I can't decide if your comment expresses how you obviously didn't just read the title and then post, or how obviously you are a developer of the game to respond as if it were your decision. So hard to choose!

[N4G4M4K1]

Wow I can't decide if your comment expresses how you obviously didn't just read the title and then post, or how obviously you are a developer of the game to respond as if it were your decision. So hard to choose!

It's a topic I am very familiar with. In making the success rate of looting red lockers 100%, you honestly are making the game more of a looter than a shooter. They have discussed this on the livestream a few times. I could go on and on about why it just isn't a good decision to make, or I could just state the developers' response to the suggestion, the latter being far painless to me to type out and for you to read.

 

I am very in-tune with all the goings on with the development and community opinion, I'm sorry I didn't express that in my initial comment. I see stuff like this all the time; "Buff X!" or "X needs a nerf because Y is just as good as Z." The simple truth is that, at this current time the team has better things to be working on, especially with their massive E3 publicity S#&$ going on right now. I apologize, sincerely, but I've just seen too many suggestions were they were poorly thought out or the author didn't do any prior research to see if it hadn't already been suggested. It was a simple act of generalization, and I'm sorry for that, but I'm just trying to tell you that in all likelihood, the mod is going to stay where it stands.

[Venus-Venera]

current master thief is garbage. thats the fact. 90% chance and more is a must

[MisguidedGT]

This mod was not well thought out. Clicking on umpteen lockers isn't fun (nor is waiting for someone else to do so). I wish it had simply increased the percentage of lockers that were green by a small amount.

Edited June 13, 2013 by MisguidedGT

[Feldgrep]

Also since some lockers are prop lockers and will never open...but I say cap out at 90% give or take 5%

[Letter13]

Nope.avi

[Luxangel7]

It's a topic I am very familiar with. In making the success rate of looting red lockers 100%, you honestly are making the game more of a looter than a shooter. They have discussed this on the livestream a few times. I could go on and on about why it just isn't a good decision to make, or I could just state the developers' response to the suggestion, the latter being far painless to me to type out and for you to read.

 

I am very in-tune with all the goings on with the development and community opinion, I'm sorry I didn't express that in my initial comment. I see stuff like this all the time; "Buff X!" or "X needs a nerf because Y is just as good as Z." The simple truth is that, at this current time the team has better things to be working on, especially with their massive E3 publicity S#&$ going on right now. I apologize, sincerely, but I've just seen too many suggestions were they were poorly thought out or the author didn't do any prior research to see if it hadn't already been suggested. It was a simple act of generalization, and I'm sorry for that, but I'm just trying to tell you that in all likelihood, the mod is going to stay where it stands.

 

I understand why you posted like that, it's no problem really, no apologies necessary, really.

 

And I get where you're coming from, however if the devs really think that it's fine the way it is right now, I seriously doubt their better judgement on the matter. This mod, along with metal auger, are two of the most useless and poorly implemented (not to mention high cost) mods in the game.

 

I sincerely hope they take a real effort at looking at this mod again, because right now it's garbage in my opinion. And I believe that many "buff x" threads aren't well thought out, but I believe that the points I made are both logical and sensible...

 

Edit: And no offense to you, the game, or the developers, but right now I think the game is exactly a looter and shooter game.

Especially until we have anything even resembling story/lore/gameplay mechanics that go beyond kill/capture/interact then right now the game quite frankly is a looter based on a tps. And even if it weren't, this mod is meant to actually make looting possible, but instead as it is now it just makes it more aggravating. Bottom line: 13 mod slots is not worth maybe opening four more lockers in a round, to maybe get a few credits or one extra material box. I don't believe anyone can argue against this assertion.

Edited June 13, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Aggh]

No.

God forbid people get a couple hundred more credits and some mats in exchange for using up 13 energy on their warframe :|

[Venus-Venera]

Also since some lockers are prop lockers and will never open...but I say cap out at 90% give or take 5%

not some! MOST lockers in mission are prop lockers. that makes this mod with huge req. even more useless.

[SocknBoppers]

Or keep it at 10% and give it a total of 9 upgrades.

High max level mods are dying out, theres no choice in terms of what mods you use when all but one of them only have 5 levels.

[lZerul]

I am fine with its current %, I just want them to make it cheaper.

[Archistopheles]

you honestly are making the game more of a looter than a shooter.

 

 

Stop rhyming, and I mean it

 

 

 

[size=2]Anybody want a peanut?[/size]

[LeAtlas]

havent got one yet :T

[Luxangel7]

Or keep it at 10% and give it a total of 9 upgrades.

High max level mods are dying out, theres no choice in terms of what mods you use when all but one of them only have 5 levels.

 

qft seriously. When I heard about this mod I was dearly hoping that it was going to be something like Serration, where it could have a real power for you, but you had to really earn it. Instead you get a mod that after a dozen or so common cores and 10k creds amounts to basically wasting 13 mods slots on an RNG chance to have an RNG chance at credits and maybe resources...

 

Excellent idea/observation, it just further highlights how poorly implemented this mod was in my opinion

[Zamte]

The problem with the statement about it making the game "more of a looter than a shooter" if they give you 100% is that it doesn't change anything. Even if the mod was 10% success, you'd need to go check every locker to see if it would succeed anyways.

 

People are already going around and spending a lot more time looting if they use this mod. They're just not getting much for it.

 

I personally think something like this needs some RNG, but I'd much prefer if the cap was 60% instead of 40%. With so many prop lockers, such a high frame cost, and the extra time it takes to utilize, it really should be "more often than not".

 

If it was changed to 60%, 8 power base, and 15/30/45/60% chance, it'd be much better, in my opinion. Making a distinction between red lockers and non-lockers would also help a lot. For instance, change "prop" lockers to be dark, or to be broken open already. They still serve to create the illusion of locker rooms and add interesting features to tiles, without tricking people into thinking this mod is more effective than it is.

[Blatantfool]

 I'd be okay with this change. After the discovery that the majority of the lockers in each level are prop lockers anyway this change seems kinda warranted.

[Sixty5]

Approx 10% of lockers in a level are green. Master Thief gives you a 40% chance to open red lockers. 

 

Therefore with both you can open up approximately 46% of the games lockers, giving you effectively 4x the loot. 

 

 

If that isn't enough for you then nothing will.

[Luxangel7]

Approx 10% of lockers in a level are green. Master Thief gives you a 40% chance to open red lockers. 

 

Therefore with both you can open up approximately 46% of the games lockers, giving you effectively 4x the loot. 

 

 

If that isn't enough for you then nothing will.

 

I think you completely misunderstand both how this mod works and the math involved. The way the mod works now you can basically be 'lucky' and maybe get the result you are talking about, or you can be equally "unlucky" and open just 2% of the red lockers.

[gell]

I think you completely misunderstand both how this mod works and the math involved. The way the mod works now you can basically be 'lucky' and maybe get the result you are talking about, or you can be equally "unlucky" and open just 2% of the red lockers.

 

I don't think he misunderstood. Granted, a RNG can really screw you or grant you fortune, but your response is a bit of a lie too. You didn't add the more fortunate chance of opening a greater number of lockers due to random chance (just like sometimes the alerts give 4 blueprints in a row).

 

The numbers may need tweaking, but random is random (or pseudo random is pseudo random). DE already stated that they don't do any magic with the RNG; it's just random. While this may be bad in some cases (often a subjective observation), randomly generated things are random. Making it a 90%-100% chance is really too much though. However, I think your suggestion for that is based a bit on the number of prop lockers in the game. Either DE needs to fix that, or leave it (could be memory limitations they are avoiding) and increase the rate. They should make the text reflect the observable statistics of all the red lockers though, since your average player is not going to know that there are fake prop lockers everywhere.

[IcarusNine]

Not entirely agreed.

- RNG on top of RNG isn't that bad.  Most players tend to complain when % chances drop below, say, 5%, as it becomes indistinguishable to 0% within most players' tolerance of repetition, and 40% isn't nearly that bad.

- If one person has Master Thief at 100%, anyone else with Master Thief has wasted all of their investement, rather than merely most of it.

- Just because it has a % doesn't mean you need to use an RNG.  40% could be implemented as 'every third and fifth locker'.

- Every module works by multiplying its initial cost, not just Master Thief.

 

However, I think there's a point to be made with the module space cost.

Considering that lockers aren't really magnifying a warframe's effectiveness, the initial investment in mod slots (8?) is really exorbitant for the 10% that you get initially.  Though, by the same taken, it's not a must-have module, and you'll probably only equip it using the extra space you have after you've potato'd and forma'd your warframe to the maximum.

[Luxangel7]

I don't think he misunderstood. Granted, a RNG can really screw you or grant you fortune, but your response is a bit of a lie too. You didn't add the more fortunate chance of opening a greater number of lockers due to random chance (just like sometimes the alerts give 4 blueprints in a row).

 

The numbers may need tweaking, but random is random (or pseudo random is pseudo random). DE already stated that they don't do any magic with the RNG; it's just random. While this may be bad in some cases (often a subjective observation), randomly generated things are random. Making it a 90%-100% chance is really too much though. However, I think your suggestion for that is based a bit on the number of prop lockers in the game. Either DE needs to fix that, or leave it (could be memory limitations they are avoiding) and increase the rate. They should make the text reflect the observable statistics of all the red lockers though, since your average player is not going to know that there are fake prop lockers everywhere.

 

My observation wasn't a lie. In my OP I allow for the extremely unlikely case that RNG smiles upon you and you get to open every single locker. I fail to see how not repeatedly mentioning an extremely unlikely scenario makes my logic a lie...

 

The bottom line here is that Master Thief is very poorly implemented.

 

1) Prop lockers

2) Low chance for success

3) High cost for mod slots

4) Opened lockers can have nothing in them

5) Reported bug where it stays at 10% even if maxed

6) Individual "per locker" calculation instead of flat % increase of red opened lockers

 

All this results in a very flawed mod. If someone doesn't agree with me saying it should be able to reach 90-100% fine, of course that is just my opinion. However the fact remains that presently this mod is utterly useless, completely frustrating, and absolutely unsatisfying.

 

Not everyone has a 4 times forma'd frame. Some people like me will have not only sacrificed probably two high level mods to equip this, but also hunted defense maps for ages, gotten super excited to get this mod, put on their "it's time to loot" faces, only to then be utterly disappointed with this absolutely underwhelming mod.

 

So sure, super forma your frame and no worries, just replace one mod with this, but when most normal players will sacrifice say a....9 slot focus and a 8 slot streamline....the trade off in benefit makes this mod look absolutely ridiculous.

 

One of my original examples still stands. Master Thief when maxed out costs almost as much as a maxed out redirection mod. Is anyone going to argue to me that the ability to open maybe every fourth or fifth locker should cost me as much as always having my shields buffed by +350% or so?

 

Following this example, the two paths to follow would be to leave it as it is and just reduce the slot cost, which would simply result in justifying why it's so horrible and unsatisfying to use, or actually making it what we were all hoping and expecting this mod to be: an expensive(slots) and hard to get mod that would make looting much more successful.

 

Let's not forget: It's called "Master Thief "...not " Sometimes Decent Thief ".

 

 

Edit: Not to mention that we're asking DE to let us use what we earned to get a few extra credits and resources, it's not like we're asking for free catalysts....

Edited June 13, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[LordAsmolicious]

Just go with friends. make sure all of em have master thief and you should have 4x 40% to open a locker. though i still havent had it... with only 2% dropchance i get more keys than i need :(  or way too much convulsion... lol

[holdenagincourt]

Law of large numbers=you will in fact be opening 40% of lockers over the course of many games, in aggregate. Acquisition of materials and credits is obviously a matter of aggregation so...I don't really get the objection about any individual mission giving you somewhat fewer lockers than you'd expect. Over time the rate will regress to the mean.

 

That being said, a mod this rare and expensive in terms of mod capacity used, and which offers no advantage in combat at all, probably should offer a better return. That, or its mod cost could be reduced.