Non-soldier entities!

[Navarc]

 

NON-SOLDIER ENTITIES

TLDR: Grineer & Corpus workers without weapons that give nothing if killed, but if you show mercy you can get rare resources & affinity from them. Maybe even a chance to trigger stalker when you kill civilians for being relentless.

DE has explained with reason as to why we don't come across regular people & civilians in the world of Warframe, with that we just have no reason to invade populated areas because that's not where the threats are & civilians don't live in military outposts etcetera. "The Lotus works so that no civilian need make contact with a tool of war. Warframes are no exception."
But this isn't what I want to talk about with this thread, I want to talk about non-soldier military workers on settlements, outposts, warships and such. I can buy that the grineer soldiers have to move supplies themselves and such, but scientists, clone production workers, engineers and more can be added. You don't think Vay Hek built himself that new body of his, do you? With no body?

But if DE did add these, they would serve no purpose! Enemies that aren't a threat, just standing there getting caught in tonkor explosions and granting no affinity? Pointless. Just not worth putting artists, coders & more to work for.
What I want is for us to get bonus affinity & maybe even rare resource drops from letting these types of enemies be spared, I don't know how it's going to work but I did think pacifying them would be nice, you run up to them and show them you don't intend on cutting them in half/melting them/burning them alive & they drop something and say something, maybe run off & despawn or just stay there and now cannot be killed. (it would be dumb to help them and then be able to kill them)

Their looks? Well, they won't have weapons or even protective armour like the generic grineer/corpus we meet of course!
I'd imagine grineer workers to look something like the Grineer Capture Target entity & the corpus workers to have some outfit -similar- to Darvos, pretty but not very protective. They all have to stick out, you won't accidentally snipe one.
These very same people you're saving might one day join the Steel Meridian or Perrin Sequence when they're seeing how the Tenno aren't just butchers.
What would their AI be like if they're unarmed and unable to attack you? Well, I think they should be fleeing as if they had a fear status on them & hiding behind covers to avoid getting caught in the gunfire. They should be alerted at the same time "real" enemies get alerted in a room & even able to sound alarms. But pacified grineer/corpus workers cannot sound alarms since they are smart enough to know that it is going to get them killed before they manage to do it. Your sentinels & kubrows will not automatically attack the workers by the way - only if you yourself begin hacking away at them your companions will start.

Killing them grants no affinity or mod drops, it is pointless to murder those who aren't a threat to you and you learn nothing from it, mercy will reward you & you might want to reconsider blowing up entire rooms knowing there are "innocents" that potentially carry affinity & rare resources.

However! They won't spawn in Exterminate, Defense & Survival. They can spawn in Spy, which means if you get caught but hack all 3 targets you might have to kill some workers who may have witnessed you. Mercy isn't always a choice if you mess up.
Each time you kill a civilian, depending on its faction, tileset & your marks it will have a chance to summon Stalker/G3/Zanuka I think is a very good idea which would work really well.
Stalker seeing you as a massmurderer for killing Phorid is ridiculous! But he's justified to see you as the same tenno who performed genocide on his people if you're butchering unarmed people.

This change, if DE considers it can even open up ideas for new types of missions, some sort of mobile defense where you escort X quantity of unarmed from harm, like infested taking over a ship or something. It's both a small and a large change to the game, a handful of new enemies who don't do anything too special but change how the game feels by adding more immersion and thinking to your attacks & can interact with different gameplay elements such as summoning their factions "vigilantes".


After playing & reading a bit on the Operation Rathuum event:
There are new characters, enemies in the event that makes me want this to happen even more and confirms this is definitely something that works in the lore.

Once a medical officer under Sargas Ruk, Thul failed to save the life of one of his favoured officers. Thul was "reassigned" to service under Kela as an Executioner of Rathuum. He has managed to survive under the protection of his allies, who value his medical skills.

 

Reth was once a simple labourer working in the shipyards of Ceres. He often wondered how lethal the equipment he worked with could be if he made only minor tweaks to its design. After a series of escalated killings his handiwork was discovered by his superiors. Rather than risk being captured, Reth fled to Kela, where he now tests his latest machinations in the service of Rathuum.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Navarchus

[Plushy]

I like this idea! We need more things showing we are capable of mercy. 

[Megaket]

This sounds pretty good. It would add a lot more life to the world in general, as well as make a lot of sense on planets, corpus ships, etc. On top of that, Stalker telling me that my "actions have consequences" would make so much more sense if I had killed a defenseless civilian, not Lephantis.

[Noabettiet]

This would add so much life to warframe.. the immersion is definitely needed and appreciated.

Everyone please support this and tell more people about it, so that DE can see this.

[Datcoolguy]

I can already see so many people killing civilians just to get the stalker to show up

[Navarc]

Just now, Datcoolguy said:

I can already see so many people killing civilians just to get the stalker to show up

Sure but if there's 6 civilians, that might be 6 neurodes or whatever that you're not getting because of you trying to trigger stalker.
And when you already have everything from stalker then it kind of loses its purpose.

[xShadowsaur]

This is a wonderful idea! Not only does it create lore but it also encourages new tilesets and tiles to already existing sets but also new models and interactions. Imagine sneaking around and seeing a civilian idly doing something. A scientist checking on things, a mechanic repairing something, even a janitor.
This also encourages new mission types. I can already imagine invasion missions with a twist!

Imagine the Lotus picking up some of the Grineer plans to raid a civilian corpus establishment with minimal guarding. The Tenno would be tasked to come in, hold off militants from killing civilians, and escort them onto escape vessels.

Imagine sparing civilians who then open up a storage locker full of resources in gratitude (or in a bartering attempt) for sparing their lives.

Even seeing civilians running away and hiding, cowering and even speaking in their language.

Variety is good. Hopefully along with this DE could add more ambient AI, such as MOAs designed solely to move cargo, or even futuristic rodents scurrying about.

 

[Navarc]

10 hours ago, xShadowsaur said:

This is a wonderful idea! Not only does it create lore but it also encourages new tilesets and tiles to already existing sets but also new models and interactions. Imagine sneaking around and seeing a civilian idly doing something. A scientist checking on things, a mechanic repairing something, even a janitor.
This also encourages new mission types. I can already imagine invasion missions with a twist!

Imagine the Lotus picking up some of the Grineer plans to raid a civilian corpus establishment with minimal guarding. The Tenno would be tasked to come in, hold off militants from killing civilians, and escort them onto escape vessels.

Imagine sparing civilians who then open up a storage locker full of resources in gratitude (or in a bartering attempt) for sparing their lives.

Even seeing civilians running away and hiding, cowering and even speaking in their language.

Variety is good. Hopefully along with this DE could add more ambient AI, such as MOAs designed solely to move cargo, or even futuristic rodents scurrying about.

 

I think there actually are Corpus Ospreys used to carry cargo. I do remember seeing giant bus-sized Ospreys flying around with giant boxes under them.
Though I think it would be strange to spare unarmed working drones that can't really feel fear and just be repaired.

[Noabettiet]

i do hope the AI used for this, is somewhat more unique(looks), even if it is bare simplistic. 

[o.0-]

I like this, makes far more sense for Stalker to be pissed with us killing such innocents, than taking out Lephantis.

[Rambit23Z]

So you're suggesting:

• More lore
• More Immersion
• More atmosphere
• More ways to earn loot
• AND a potentially reliable way to spawn Stalker.

Love it, absolutely love it. 11/10

[SlimShazbot]

This would go a long way to make the world feel more like... well... a world and less like an interconnected web of murder-rooms.

Definitely support this idea.

 

[YasaiTsume]

Tenno's Creed.

*LOSES AFFINITY FOR KILLING CIVILIANS*

*TRANSFERENCE REJECTED*

Maybe these guys can also activate alarms, so what if they do? Can we kill them then?

And if we spare them and run through the mission without killing them anyway, do we get a special pat on the head to say we were "good children" :D

Edited May 2, 2016 by YasaiTsume

[ll_Aluka_ll]

After playing for about 2 months (with intermissions, I actually haven't reached the 50 days milestone) this is the only real issue I still have. I mean, I can get behind the idea of having to work hard for Affinity or the resources necessary to build anything I like, or that I can actually choose between patience and reruns of the same level or spending the equivalent of 2 € on a new warframe (because, seriously, who buys Pt without 75% off? I got 3 or 4 of those coupons or whatever in the couple of weeks I've played so far). But why in the name of sanity do I only and exclusively run into people who are trying to kill me? In the entirety of the solar system all peaceful living organisms seem to be inhabiting the Relays. Even the only kind of wildlife still living on Earth will try and eat me (which begs the question, do Kubrows actually eat the Grineer, or what? Anyways, I'm getting sidetracked...)

So while this obviously makes less sense for certain mission types like Defense, the mere possibility that blindly shooting everything that moves might not be the best way to go for each and every level you play feels like a major improvement.

[Navarc]

The latest event has made me want non-aggressive enemies even more due to the codex obviously implying that at least the grineers have workers who aren't cloned, trained & armed for military purposes as we suspected and expected.

 

CODEX

Reth was once a simple labourer working in the shipyards of Ceres. He often wondered how lethal the equipment he worked with could be if he made only minor tweaks to its design. After a series of escalated killings his handiwork was discovered by his superiors. Rather than risk being captured, Reth fled to Kela, where he now tests his latest machinations in the service of Rathuum.

CODEX

Once a medical officer under Sargas Ruk, Thul failed to save the life of one of his favoured officers. Thul was "reassigned" to service under Kela as an Executioner of Rathuum. He has managed to survive under the protection of his allies, who value his medical skills.

[Marbelik]

Really good ideas, even though the part of killing innocents makes the stalker/G3/ZanukaH appears seems quite exploitable so if this happens at least make them have more firepower or resistances percentage increase for each innocent killed. This could make you think twice to just spam 4 to make the assassins to appear.

Having missions where we actually have to protect someone or a group of people would add a real increase in difficult in the game, rather than just making enemies outscale us, kind of what defense sortie missions work now (it still needs some work though). A good addition to defense would be making the npc more aggressive just like when we had to protect a baliff dude. It was really amazing seeing him fight alongside us. Maybe by giving the defense objective a static set of weapons just like what syndicate npcs have instead of taking our secondaries.

About the mobile defense change it would be good to have 2 npcs per tenno in mission or a group of 4 npcs to protect per mission, we have to take them to certain points around the map because before they leave they need to gather some information from the ship. But making it more rewarding would be difficult too... Maybe 3-5 fusion cores per npc alive (this would make the time and the effort protecting them worth it, kind of) and for mission levels around 1-15 make it normal fusion cores, for levels 15-25 silver fusion cores and for levels 25-35 gold fusion cores.

The addition to spy would just be adding another factor to force us take more time into finishing a mission by turning it into an exterminate which is not so good because you actually have that when you are reckless about opening the vaults.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Marbelik
Clarify

[Navarc]

3 hours ago, Marbelik said:

Really good ideas, even though the part of killing innocents makes the stalker/G3/ZanukaH appears seems quite exploitable so if this happens at least make them have more firepower or resistances percentage increase for each innocent killed. This could make you think twice to just spam 4 to make the assassins to appear.

Having missions where we actually have to protect someone or a group of people would add a real increase in difficult in the game, rather than just making enemies outscale us, kind of what defense sortie missions work now (it still needs some work though). A good addition to defense would be making the npc more aggressive just like when we had to protect a baliff dude. It was really amazing seeing him fight alongside us. Maybe by giving the defense objective a static set of weapons just like what syndicate npcs have instead of taking our secondaries.

About the mobile defense change it would be good to have 2 npcs per tenno in mission or a group of 4 npcs to protect per mission, we have to take them to certain points around the map because before they leave they need to gather some information from the ship. But making it more rewarding would be difficult too... Maybe 3-5 fusion cores per npc alive (this would make the time and the effort protecting them worth it, kind of) and for mission levels around 1-15 make it normal fusion cores, for levels 15-25 silver fusion cores and for levels 25-35 gold fusion cores.

The addition to spy would just be adding another factor to force us take more time into finishing a mission by turning it into an exterminate which is not so good because you actually have that when you are reckless about opening the vaults.

Yeah, while I do think it would make sense for the assassins to want you for killing bystanders and that kind of thing, I feel like there would be a lot of farming innocents simply because it would be the most efficient way currently in the game to cause them to spawn, beacons being the 2nd best alternative but FAR more costly.
I do still want them added into the game, I'm still unsure on how they should affect the other mechanics in the game other than being unarmed and fleeing/hiding from these literal warmachines carving a path through armies.

[Gelkor]

Sounds good, I would totally accidentally kill them with melee spam and artemis bow. 

[mrmexas]

I had a similar lightbulb when Operation Breeding Grounds was live.
Players may have noticed a few poor souls around Breeding Ground tilesets where some Corpus crew are still alive. I made a thread wondering if a 'mini-event' similar to the Gradivus Dilemma was introduced to give players an incentive to help these guys out of infested growths. Influence points a-la Syndicates or the G-Dilemma.

I'm 100% on-board with your idea. Super cool.

[Rehtael7]

Uhhhh... Stalker doesn't give a FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK if you kill civilians, he just wants you dead regardless.

[arch111]

You have my I am still waiting to rescue and visit those poor colonists Steel Meridian are protecting and liberating.

Plus Steve really wants.more npc and immersion added.

[Navarc]

10 hours ago, Rehtael7 said:

Uhhhh... Stalker doesn't give a FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK if you kill civilians, he just wants you dead regardless.

Have you ever read any of his messages or even his description? It's killing which angers him.

[Rehtael7]

Just now, Navarchus said:

Have you ever read any of his messages or even his description? It's killing which angers him.

He gets angry when you kill bosses. They're the OPPOSITE of non-combatants.

And he hates the Tenno because he was loyal to the Orokin when they were betrayed.

[Endless_Destruction]

Sorry to necro the thread, but it seems like a great idea.

[Navarc]

7 hours ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Sorry to necro the thread, but it seems like a great idea.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with it when it's feedback and concepts that haven't been responded to.
But yeah, I'm real glad you agree it would make the game more interesting.