Tonkor makes all other blast weapons irrelevant due to no self damage.

[Divine_Intellect]

So this really really bothers me. I want to get into using blast weapons since they're kinda fun and they break the monotony once in a while. I have a 5 forma tonkor and I use it as a SHTF weapon occasionally, but it got really boring after using it for so long. I got a secura penta now, and compared to the tonkor, it just cannot compete. There is no real practical reason why you wouldn't use tonkor over any other blast weapon. why? Radius, damage and self damage. Self damage in my opinion is the biggest, most annoyingly inconvenient disadvantage that makes all other weapons pale in comparison to the tonkor. So would it be a better idea to add self damage to tonkor, or remove self damage for all? I need your guys opinion on this. 

I want to enjoy the penta, but it SUCKS compared to the boring alternative.

 

[Trichouette]

Honestly the only issue with the tonkor is the output damage, mainly because of the crits.

Self-damage isn't a feature they're going to add to this weapon simply because "oh lol grenade jump".

The crit system need a revamp as well as the balance of base damages, a penta should have way more damage considering it has no crit chance.

[TheGuyver]

Oh look it's this thread again. I only use penta when I want to live.............dangerously (⌐■_■)

Edited May 9, 2016 by TheGuyverOne

[[DE]Momaw]

All you have to do with explosive weapons is not use them in short range engagements.  I can see why you would occasionally kill yourself with an Ogris, given that the rocket explodes on contact with anything (e.g. team mates) but Penta? You can see where the grenades go and you have a manual detonate button....You're in control of your own fate.

[_jorgi_]

Yeah, it's really fun to try penta but after short time you realize it's not fun anymore for serious job and going back to get tonkor for sortie or rahuum. There is really no serious reason to use anything else (i mean blast weapons).

Personally I'm not sure what solution would be better, remove self damage probably would bring more diversity to the arsenal brought by players to serious missions. Still there will be Synoid Simulor being more OP than Tonkor in most cases. There are not many missions when it's better to get a bow, Tigris, Ignis or even Soma p over Tonkor/Simulor.

I don't expect anything will change in that matter soon, probably DE put all efforts to bring new content and sentient weapons to the game.

[Divine_Intellect]

6 minutes ago, Momaw said:

All you have to do with explosive weapons is not use them in short range engagements.  I can see why you would occasionally kill yourself with an Ogris, given that the rocket explodes on contact with anything (e.g. team mates) but Penta? You can see where the grenades go and you have a manual detonate button....You're in control of your own fate.

You missed the point. Even If I do see the grenades of the penta I can still run the risk of hitting fire and alt fire in the same time, as with tonkor, you shoot the floor, everything around you explodes, you delete your penta and regret spending 30 plat on it.

[Guest]

Well, I personally prefer the Ogris to the Tonkor because it just has a better touch. I'm a frequent bow user, and the Ogris satisfies me by having a charge mechanic, long range and good accuracy. Tonkor just feels really alien to me. I can't really figure out how to aim that thing, so I'm using the Ogris any day instead of Tonkor. Having completely dumped grenade launchers twice, I frankly do not see why are people still using them. Who needs a weapon that you can't snipe with in the first place?

20 hours ago, Ksilisab said:

 Even If I do see the grenades of the penta I can still run the risk of hitting fire and alt fire in the same time

How?

Edited May 10, 2016 by Guest

[Icpmcp]

I'd still rather use my Secura Penta over a Tonkor.

 

Looks way better to me.

 

Same with Soma Prime not looking as cool as the Soma to me(with the only difference to the Launchers being that I can just use a skin to change the Soma P to my likings).

Edited May 9, 2016 by Icpmcp

[Divine_Intellect]

1 minute ago, Madho said:

Well, I personally prefer the Ogris to the Tonkor because it just has a better touch. I'm a frequent bow user, and the Ogris satisfies me by having a charge mechanic, long range and good accuracy. Tonkor just feels really alien to me. I can't really figure out how to aim that thing, so I'm using the Ogris any day instead of Tonkor. Having completely dumped rocket launchers twice, I frankly do not see why are people still using them. Who needs a weapon that you can't aim in the first place?

How?

My mouse is wonky, my alt fire is middle mouse button so you can always left click accidentally with that combo, yes I can change the keybinds easily, but still. I want the penta to be comparable to the tonkor.

[_jorgi_]

Personal liking is one thing and performance is second. I believe we discuss the second here.

My observation from using both Tonkor and Penta is quite simple. You can't over perform Tonkor because you need to pay attention when using Penta. Simple as that.

[Sintag]

You spent 30 plat on a Syndicate wep?  You got ripped off there, man.

 

More seriously, ever tried Adhesive Blast on a Penta?  It is freaking glorious.

[-Temp0-]

Quote

So would it be a better idea to add self damage to tonkor, or remove self damage for all?

Remove self damage from majority of weapons, with a few exceptions - but there always should be an exception just in case. Because in some cases self-damage can be needed.

[DaftMeat]

Penta is not bad as long as you're mindful of where the grenades are (they could use a better visual indicator, but that can be said of all grenades/explosives in-game). I can't remember the last time I damaged myself with a grenade. Plus, Secura Penta has the build in syndicate effect which I find invaluable.

 

Ogris is another story...

[Guest]

Seeing how you can't really control the time of explosion for Tonkor, I have no idea why the Penta would be subpar. Self-damage? I mean, sure, you could've messed up big time if you can't aim because the infested will hoarde you with merciless particle effects, but that's pretty much it. Penta, on the other hand, would be way more flexible for a grenade launcher with the detonate time control.

2 minutes ago, _jorgi_ said:

You can't over perform Tonkor because you need to pay attention when using Penta.

Which is probably what you should be doing all the time? People mainly cheese with Tonkor and actually play with a Penta, subsequently decreasing the gameplay value of the Tonkor, which is a good thing if you're not using it anyway.

[Divine_Intellect]

3 minutes ago, Sintag said:

You spent 30 plat on a Syndicate wep?  You got ripped off there, man.

 

More seriously, ever tried Adhesive Blast on a Penta?  It is freaking glorious.

Maybe I don't respect my plat as much as you do.

[Sorkheff]

I don't really care what happens to the Tonkor, I just want the Ogris to become a competitive and viable weapon. Because right now, even with the new mod, it simply isn't worth the risk. Maybe if it was the most powerful of the explosive weapon group...but it's not. So whether that means nerfs or buffs, I am all for them.

[rao_94]

All those people out there who are desperately trying to get tonkor nerfed .. please stop..... it wont happen even if it does they ll revert it back cse 100 more posts will arise against the nerf

[-Temp0-]

8 minutes ago, Sintag said:

You spent 30 plat on a Syndicate wep?  You got ripped off there, man.

Those kind of people... Weapons should cost 50p at least actually. As a normal cost for 1 synd mod is 10, sometimes 15 even. And 1 weapon requires 100-125k rep. So any person that buys synd weapon for 30 or less is actually ripping the seller.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Divine_Intellect]

2 minutes ago, Sorkheff said:

I don't really care what happens to the Tonkor, I just want the Ogris to become a competitive and viable weapon. Because right now, even with the new mod, it simply isn't worth the risk. Maybe if it was the most powerful of the explosive weapon group...but it's not. So whether that means nerfs or buffs, I am all for them.

I agree. Tonkor doesn't need a nerf, blast weapons need a buff. Or a fix.

[Sintag]

3 minutes ago, Sorkheff said:

I don't really care what happens to the Tonkor, I just want the Ogris to become a competitive and viable weapon. Because right now, even with the new mod, it simply isn't worth the risk. Maybe if it was the most powerful of the explosive weapon group...but it's not. So whether that means nerfs or buffs, I am all for them.

This.  This right here.

All of my yes.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

You know what would be novel on these forums? Players simply saying Dear De, please buff my weapon or frame, period. Over saying Dear De... this weapon, or frame makes me angry because the things I like sucks, change it and screw those other players who use it...because ME ME ME. 

Forgive me OP, I know that seems like a jab at you, but it's not directed at you, the Tonkor like many weapons is always zeroed in on, the request is usually nerf it so it matches all other explosive weapons. All explosive weapons are not fun. The risk of suiciding, or being trolled makes these weapons not a viable option like snipers.

So taking the only explosive weapon that doesn't crater you and basically making it a redundant two shot suicide machine is simply returning the game back to Soma Prime days. Because after the Tonkor, it will be the Sonicor, the Staticor, the Synoid Simulor, and even the Senchura Penta will be attacked because of its AOE buff is too "game breaking". 

Personally I'd just say. I'd like the Penta to receive no self damage, or it can pass through other players. Same goes for the Ogris and other explosive weapons. ...

Or how about explosive weapons charge up a over shield when being held like Energy Syphon or Rejuvenation. Then those players have a better chance to survive their own weapons, while now they have a relevance to offset the risk. 

[_jorgi_]

2 minutes ago, Madho said:

Which is probably what you should be doing all the time? People mainly cheese with Tonkor and actually play with a Penta, subsequently decreasing the gameplay value of the Tonkor, which is a good thing if you're not using it anyway.

I don't feel I'm losing anything from gameplay when I can shoot Tonkor grenade in the face of Bombard standing in front of me. When with Penta I would need to run away first which might mean mission failed on very high level mission. So again, performance is something different than gameplay pleasure. But if I want to have both I need to get my Tonkor. With Penta I wouldn't dare risking failure at wave X of T4Def or something, especially inf front of my team. If I play solo I can be crazy as I want and go malee only or something, just for fun. Then in case of failure I blame my sense of humor and idea to go solo without proper gear.

The point is. I like Penta. I really would like to use it more often because of whatever reasons I have. But I will never ever be close to to Tonkor performance because of huge tactical difference between these two weapons.

And I think it's not fair for Penta to have this difference (actually huge nerf) because players are not using it for serious runs because of that - this is seriously decreased gameplay for me.    

[leocww]

Just a little disclaimer, I mainly use my Secura Penta amongst all explosive launchers.

I have emphasized the same problem as OP mentioned, all the time on forum.

Yet some still argue that Tonkor has a different playstyle than other launchers, and claimed that it doesn't need to be changed.

Let's face the reality : Tonkor deals high damage, without the downside of self-damaging like other launchers. 

This will only encourage the use(spam) of Tonkor, and discourage using the other launchers. 

I think either make all launchers dealing self-damage, or not at all.

Edited May 9, 2016 by SpryCrow

[Sonos]

16 minutes ago, rao_94 said:

All those people out there who are desperately trying to get tonkor nerfed .. please stop..... it wont happen even if it does they ll revert it back cse 100 more posts will arise against the nerf

good point.  I am going to start another Nerf Valkyr PLZ DE thread instead.

[Divine_Intellect]

1 minute ago, _jorgi_ said:

I don't feel I'm losing anything from gameplay when I can shoot Tonkor grenade in the face of Bombard standing in front of me. When with Penta I would need to run away first which might mean mission failed on very high level mission. So again, performance is something different than gameplay pleasure. But if I want to have both I need to get my Tonkor. With Penta I wouldn't dare risking failure at wave X of T4Def or something, especially inf front of my team. If I play solo I can be crazy as I want and go malee only or something, just for fun. Then in case of failure I blame my sense of humor and idea to go solo without proper gear.

The point is. I like Penta. I really would like to use it more often because of whatever reasons I have. But I will never ever be close to to Tonkor performance because of huge tactical difference between these two weapons.

And I think it's not fair for Penta to have this difference (actually huge nerf) because players are not using it for serious runs because of that - this is seriously decreased gameplay for me.    

I feel the same way.