Question de DE and the community: why 25/50/75/100?

[Deidaku]

Hey guys .

SO I was wondering why most of our frames have their powers organized as such.  I mean sure it makes sense for the ultimate but why do the other powers have to consume 25/50/75?

Wouldn't it be interesting to make a frame that consumes energy differently than others?  Let's say consumption changes  depending on other powers. Example : ultimate ability costs less than  100 to activate  but all skills are more powerful but consume more energy per cast. Or something like that.

I just feel like this pattern is restrictive , if you don't think so i'll gladly let myself being schooled on the matter x)

 

Thoughts?

[chaotea]

Not quite sure what your asking here. Is your issue that the energy cost is a multiple of 5? Or is it that every warframe has the same energy cost for its abilities based on tiers?

If its the first issue, the multiples of five numbers are for easier division or multiplication based on continuity. So it makes sense.

If its the second, then the answer is: they dont. For example,

Mesa: 25/50/75/25

Atlas: 25/50/15/100

Banshee: 25/50/75/25

Equinox: 25/25/10/50

Ash: 25/35/25/100

Ember: 25/50/75/50

Chroma: 10/50/75/50

So while they follow a general theme, that the powers become stronger as they advance, there is actually alot of variety to each frame as far as energy cost is concerned.

----------------------------------------------------

Extra musing:

On the basis of "I just feel like this pattern is restrictive". Due to the nature of how the powers are set up for us as players, there are always going to be 4 powers. These powers will be of different strengths. When these are slotted onto our warframes, the strongest powers are put into the 4th slot, the weakest are put onto the 1st. The weakest powers will cost less energy to cast than stronger powers, as otherwise people would never use anything else but the powerful ones. Loo at syran pre-rework. Look at messa pre-rework. By setting up frames with a 25/50/75/100 theme to abilities, we can be provided with a good mix of abilities for each situation. 25 is generally weaker, but gives us a non-costly situational ability. the 50 gives use a medium cost ability which tends to be a survivability tool. 75 tens to be a stronger ability, one we wont spam, but can be used frequently. 100 tends to be the strong ability, capable of high damage or CC, however its high cost requires serious power management.

The way i see it, this style of power design is far less restrictive that one where all my powers would cost the same, or where the power i want to cast the most is cheap so im only going to cast that one.

Edited May 16, 2016 by chaotea
additional thought.

[Lactamid]

I believe Banshee has 2 skills which cost 100. But what ever, I agree with that some skills could cost more or less than what they do now. Some seem more powerful than others, both in comparrison to other frames and the frames' 1:st ability. Now you can theorize that 100 of Excals energy might not be the same as 100 of Novas' but that seems to complicated, besides, energy pizzas and pickups restore the same amount so it's unlikely.

Some skills could be very spammy from the start while others could be more hardhitting, a frame with skills costing 75,80,100 and 100 but packing some seriously powerful options could be awesome, still the cost of those skills could be troublesome. On the other hand a frame with low cost skills could dish out lots of damage over time, or even have something like a combo buildup which would make it more interesting, managing your energylevel while still keeping the damage up.

[CCamp88]

Also would make sense then why different frames actually have different power pools

EVEN IF they were ALL 25/50/75/100 and each frame with different pools to draw from (which they do have) then technically they all would be different costs (% wise)... which they are

PS. dont take this the wrong way, i'm not one of the people who turn every single discussion into a debate.  We all know forums have enough of those as it is. I see where you are coming from. And totally stand behind any new changes or additions to the game ;-)

Edited May 16, 2016 by CCamp88

[Rekkou]

DE have break that pattern many times, multiplication of 25 is just a rounding to match the energy orbs. If you want a new ability with unique energy consumption then you should probably make a warframe concept to show how this might've work. Suggesting different energy cost just for the sake of breaking a pattern just feels unnecessary and forced.

[chaotea]

10 minutes ago, Lactamid said:

I believe Banshee has 2 skills which cost 100.

Its 50.

[chaotea]

11 minutes ago, Lactamid said:

a frame with skills costing 75,80,100 and 100 but packing some seriously powerful options could be awesome, still the cost of those skills could be troublesome. On the other hand a frame with low cost skills could dish out lots of damage over time,

Part of the athors post was that he felt that the 25/50/75/100 style was restrictive. But i'd say that if my skills were 75/80/100/100, i'd feel even more restricted. Also with any ability set, one skill is going to be better, so i'd just spam that. With the low cost one, you could spam alot, but you whole ability set would be as strong as most frames rank one or two abilitites.

Bare in mind that DE does alter the overall cost of abilities, but indirectly by giving frames larger or smaller max energy pools.

15 minutes ago, Lactamid said:

or even have something like a combo buildup which would make it more interesting, managing your energylevel while still keeping the damage up.

The new syran and inaros do this, so it is something they are looking at. By the looks of things, the new mag and volt reworks will feature combo powers.

[chaotea]

14 minutes ago, CCamp88 said:

Also would make sense then why different frames actually have different power pools

EVEN IF they were ALL 25/50/75/100 and each frame with different pools to draw from (which they do have) then technically they all would be different costs (% wise)... which they are

Yes, i came to this same conclusion. Its very much proportional based on the max energy.

[Lactamid]

19 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Its 50.

Ok, 25,50, 75, 25 + energy drain now.
Think that her sonar was 100 at a time but I could be wrong.

[h41pa]

its all about balance !:)

[izzatuw]

The 25/50/75/100 is simply just an outdated system for an evergrowing game. With each new addition, new update there will always be things left behind.

Till DE decides to change it I won't hold my breath.

For example of new things making old things outdated. All rifles used to have 540 regardless of stats and how all secondaries had 210 ammo but than you have Soma Prime at 1K ammo pool and Braton Prime at 375. 

Azima having 575 ammo and Twin Grakata having an ammo pool 3 times the size of regular ones.

Sadly this didn't mean they updated out the ammo pool for the rest of the weapons like Aksomati, Dex Furis, etc.

Edited May 16, 2016 by izzatuw

[Deidaku]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

Not quite sure what your asking here. Is your issue that the energy cost is a multiple of 5? Or is it that every warframe has the same energy cost for its abilities based on tiers?

If its the first issue, the multiples of five numbers are for easier division or multiplication based on continuity. So it makes sense.

If its the second, then the answer is: they dont. For example,

Mesa: 25/50/75/25

Atlas: 25/50/15/100

Banshee: 25/50/75/25

Equinox: 25/25/10/50

Ash: 25/35/25/100

Ember: 25/50/75/50

Chroma: 10/50/75/50

So while they follow a general theme, that the powers become stronger as they advance, there is actually alot of variety to each frame as far as energy cost is concerned.

----------------------------------------------------

Extra musing:

On the basis of "I just feel like this pattern is restrictive". Due to the nature of how the powers are set up for us as players, there are always going to be 4 powers. These powers will be of different strengths. When these are slotted onto our warframes, the strongest powers are put into the 4th slot, the weakest are put onto the 1st. The weakest powers will cost less energy to cast than stronger powers, as otherwise people would never use anything else but the powerful ones. Loo at syran pre-rework. Look at messa pre-rework. By setting up frames with a 25/50/75/100 theme to abilities, we can be provided with a good mix of abilities for each situation. 25 is generally weaker, but gives us a non-costly situational ability. the 50 gives use a medium cost ability which tends to be a survivability tool. 75 tens to be a stronger ability, one we wont spam, but can be used frequently. 100 tends to be the strong ability, capable of high damage or CC, however its high cost requires serious power management.

The way i see it, this style of power design is far less restrictive that one where all my powers would cost the same, or where the power i want to cast the most is cheap so im only going to cast that one.

wow didn't see it that way.   Thanks for the analysis , it's much clearer now!