Personal feedback on Equinox

[Antiphoton]

Equinox is by far my favorite frame, regarding looks and theme. After using her for some time, however, I cannot say the same about her abilities. On paper they look great, but I keep feelling that there is something wrong with their execution.

She is supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none type, with a lot of micromanagement. That's fine. But when you do something right with her, the effect on the battlefield feels minimal. It feels as if you were always late. Her abilities have a lot of conflicts between them, and almost no synergy. Maybe you're doing one thing, you notice that there is an unexpected urgency, and that you need to be doing something else. While you switch forms and prepare whatever you had to do, the oportunity is lost.

I feel that her toolset would be perfect IF we had total control about what is going to happen and when. Equinox is not optimized for improvisation, she is optimized for long-term plans. However, this is a roguelike! There is no such thing as long term plans, everything is improvised. My point is that using her abilities and switching forms doesn't feel tactical at all, it feels punishing. I humbly request some QoL changes.

Some personal ideas:

Metamorphosis: it has to have a permanent effect on each form, maybe with less power than the current buff to compensate. Usually you want to switch forms before you engage an enemy, so you don't waste time with the 2 seconds delay. By the time you do engage, the buff is already fading off. It makes me feel as if I'm constantly wasting it. Also, trying to switch constantly to maintain the buff currently negates the use of other skills, and it is not worthy, giving priority to staying in one form for long periods.

Rest & Rage: actually, I think this one is ok. Maybe I'd swap the effects with each form, because I mostly use Rest as an offensive CC, to control large packs before attacking them, and Rage to help my team mates.

Pacify & Provoke: this may result a bit OP (if so, disregard it), but I think it would be nice if the effects were not affected by power strenght mods. Mostly because currently to give some use to these auras, we need to upgrade their power range, and by doing so, we need to reduce their power strenght, making them not very useful.

Mend & Maim: with the fast paced gameplay vs high level enemies, heals need to be instant or not be there at all. Having to prepare the heal can take very long, when players can die in seconds. I have several propositions for Mend (all of them different options, I am not saying that all these effects should be included, only one of them): 1) make the first cast (of a game) of Mend an instant heal, and in order to use it again, it has to consume a certain ammount of dead enemies 2) give it infinite range, like Trinity's 4th (but without the extra buff, and still having to consume enemies before using it) 3) instead of a heal, convert an X amount of the stored healing into an absorb for the squad (with a cap). Maim is ok as it is, but the stored damage needs to remain stored after switching forms if it was not used.

 

I think this would result in a very engaging gameplay with Equinox. It will still have the proactive-instead-of-reactive feel, but with less drawbacks. And if some of these changes would be applied, I wouldn't mind a nerf in numbers at all, as long as it changes the current gameplay. I don't want Equinox to be godlike - as an hybrid, she definitively needs to heal less than Trinity, hit less than Mirage, and tank less than Valkyr, I just want her gameplay to be more fluid and intuitive.

[Cryostasisprotoss]

As I am on my phone I am kinda lazy to quote and take parts of your ideas but let see what I can do.

First, I dont improvise and I play mainly with Equinox. I know that there are tough enemies around I save some damage on maim or even I go night form peaceful provocation when I know in my team there is not much CC. If there is a nova in my team or vauban I go mainly day form or depending the situation but I always prepare in advance. I believe that is a key component to be a better equinox Vision. Even a tactical frame like vauban needs this.

In term of the changes you mentioned:

Metamorphosis

I agree with on this one, when I first got equinox I thought that it was a permanent thing but then I noticed the ability fading in the middle of the battle, so yeah it should be permanent depending of the form you are as you said.

Rest and rage.

I have mix feeling here. On one hand, I use rest too as a offensive cc so it would match you could say in day form better. On the other hand if you swap them night form would always need the peaceful provocation augment because it would be uncontrollable. Because if you don't use it, in night form enemies would be too fast with no way to stop them.

Pacify and provoke 

I don't get what you mean. If it doesn't scale with strength anymore it would scale only with range? How does day form would increase the power strength bonus to allies?

Mend and maim 

Starting with maim I agree with you it is ok but of course the other way around should be the same from day to night. It is balance it should have been this way the whole time.

In mend I will go with your ideas

1) it could work the first cast but if I understood correctly it would be the same as now because you would still need to charge it to heal. Maybe if you add a little stun to the ability as maim does it could be better but in term of healing maybe it should be regenerative continuously healing as long as you have stored some enemies. 

2) I would say no, it would be only a weaker version of blessing. 

3) it may work never thought of it but wouldn't it be too overpowered?. If you take this ability and combine it with pacify it would make enemies too easy, first enemies do less damage, with peaceful provocation there is a 80% slow and on top of that you want to make some sort of shield or absorming damage. I think it is too much.

Sorry if there are some mistakes here I am on my phone right now and I don't type very often. I will correct it latter in my computer.

Also it nice to see someone that like Equinox, I don't see many people playing with her. 

[tnccs215]

Finally an Equinox thread.

Well argued. I do have some issues with some of your solutions.

1)why don't you simple ask to increase the range of P&P, instead of altering its mechanics? Specially when Pacify has that bloody fall-off (which, btw, imo, should go)

2)I think that another important thing is to make P&P alter to the mirror version instead of deactivating upon metamorphosis. This is mainly (but not only) due to the peaceful provocation augment. Equinox is a frame meant to change role and act quickly. To give it a build up augment and than make it deactivate on metamorphosis... You are effectively stuck on one aspect. It's ridiculous.

3) I dont think changing Rest&Rage's place would be a good idea. Rest is too fundamental in Night Form. Its both the only CC and barely Offensive skill she has. To changing it to Day form would increase the already present power gap even more.

Besides that, I like it. And at least you care.

[Antiphoton]

The propositions about P&P come from a build and mod perspective more than gameplay. In order to have good effects on Rest, Mend & Main and even the auras, we need range. Many times a Stretch alone won't be enough, so if we put an Overextended, the effect from the aura will be a lot weaker. I isn't the best solution, but it was the only thing I could think about. The more ideas, the better!

Swapping R&R was far from the priority on my points, and I'm still not sure about that. You do present a good point.

Coming to Mend, I don't think replacing it for a charged squad absorb would be OP, as long as said absorb has a cap. Actually, that's my favorite option from the ones I mentioned. It also could be replaced with a heal-over-time mechanic, that would have more tics the more damage we accumulated. Or replace the current heal with the absorb, plus give a minimal HoT to allies inside the aura.

 

Also, I heard that the devs have been talking about several reworks coming soon in the streams, like Mesa. Do you know if they said anything about Equinox?

[Khormalys]

When I play Equinox I usually stay in day form and only switch to night to heal and cast rest on a bursa, but more synergy between the two form would be great

Metamorphosis: buff should be permanent or at least not decay, and while we're at it a slight a buff to duality's duration would be nice.

Pacify & Provoke: not having to recast it when switching form would be nice and maybe keep the stack from the augment

Mend & Maim:same as P&P not having,to recast it when switching form, even though I would like to keep the stack when switching form it may end up being pretty broken, maybe add something to Mend while it's active like a hot and making it drain energy only while healing

[Cryostasisprotoss]

I haven't hear anything about Equinox as far as I know.

What I know is that they are working in the reworks of mag and volt and they are making mesa peacemaker to scale with mods from secundaries.

Ok, back on the topic.

Yeah the mod overextended does seem counterproductive on Equinox, however you need to sacrifice something, the mod itself is a corrupted mod. Even so it could be nice to change P&P to work only with range, maybe with duration too? It would be almost perfect being that every ability could benefit from that.

What would be better is that DE add more range mods to the game, even I don't know prime stretch maybe?

 

[tnccs215]

30 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

 

 

Also, I heard that the devs have been talking about several reworks coming soon in the streams, like Mesa. Do you know if they said anything about Equinox?

Nope, nothing.

People simply don't care about her. It's not even a meme. As I've said in a topic I made about her, she's the midle child, the forgotten one.

[tnccs215]

2 minutes ago, Cryostasisprotoss said:

 

 

What would be better is that DE add more range mods to the game, even I don't know prime stretch maybe?

 

Noooo, no no no no no. If there is a localized problem, you fix only that. Creating a solution tat affects everything (such as new universal mods) is a terrible idea, because it will increase the power level of already powerful frames. I oppose that veemently.

 

[Misgenesis]

Shes just a couple of tweaks away from perfect. Maybe she'll be included in the frame 'QoL' changes list.

[residente]

As I said in other Equinox topics long time ago and I wish someone took the time to read it and give feedback:

Equilibrium passive is very weak: For every energy orb I collect I regenerate 2 health points, which is a stupid number Imo. Same happens the other way around. I'd either buff it up to a proper amount, or change it completely. We need more passives like Inaros' one, passives that synergize with the whole frame, not stupid and worthless add-ons.

Metamorphosis:

1. The time to change forms should be shorter.
2. Night form should give permanently 125 armor and 75 shields and temporarly another 125 armor and 75 shields that fade off over time instead of giving 250 armor and 150 shields. Same with day form: 60% damage increase and 7% speed increase while on day from and the other half that fades off over time. Maybe tune down the numbers or reduce the Power Strength scaling if needed, but it needs to stay as a passive and not as a buff that after 5 seconds is worthless.

Rest and Rage: No changes

Pacify and Provoke:

1. Increase the power range from 16 to 20 meters at least.
2. Changing forms don't turn off the aura anymore, instead it simply changes it; with Paceful Provaction augment the same will hapen, aura will simply switch and the % accumulated bonus power strenght from day form will change to night form and viceversa.
3. Reduce the amount of damage Night Equinox needs to take to stack up Paceful Provocation. Reduce sightly the huge distnace fall of from Pacify.

Mend and Maim:

1. Reduce sightly the cast animation time and increase the power range from 18 meters to 20 at least.
2. Reduce sightly the damage fall of from Main, fix that @(*()$ buf where Corrupted Ancients and any unit linked to them are immune to Maim's damage release.
3. Just like Maim inflicts a Slash proc on enemy units, Mend will inflict a "heal proc" on ally units healing them 25% of their total health the initial cast, and another 25% with 7 tics over 6 seconds. Reduce if needed the health restored by killing enemies to compensate for this or tweak all the numbers, what we need is just an instant heal to give our team some breath until we can stack damage and heal them for full.
4. When changing forms, the aura will simply change just like with the Pacify and Provoke suggestion, instead of vanishing, the damage accumulated will be transfered too. That means that if you're using Maim and accumulating damage and you desperately need to heal your allies, you can change form and release all damage as heals.

What do we get with this? An Equinox that can switch forms and keep her effects active, an Equinox that is not punished for changing forms, but is rewarded for it, an Equinox that encourages the use of her varied and unique skillset and not en Equinox that encourages people of building her just for one of her 7 skills.

Edited May 23, 2016 by residente

[tnccs215]

40 minutes ago, residente said:

As I said in other Equinox topics long time ago and I wish someone took the time to read it and give feedback:

Equilibrium passive is very weak: For every energy orb I collect I regenerate 2 health points, which is a stupid number Imo. Same happens the other way around. I'd either buff it up to a proper amount, or change it completely. We need more passives like Inaros' one, passives that synergize with the whole frame, not stupid and worthless add-ons.

Metamorphosis:

1. The time to change forms should be shorter.
2. Night form should give permanently 125 armor and 75 shields and temporarly another 125 armor and 75 shields that fade off over time instead of giving 250 armor and 150 shields. Same with day form: 60% damage increase and 7% speed increase while on day from and the other half that fades off over time. Maybe tune down the numbers or reduce the Power Strength scaling if needed, but it needs to stay as a passive and not as a buff that after 5 seconds is worthless.

Rest and Rage: No changes

Pacify and Provoke:

1. Increase the power range from 16 to 20 meters at least.
2. Changing forms don't turn off the aura anymore, instead it simply changes it; with Paceful Provaction augment the same will hapen, aura will simply switch and the % accumulated bonus power strenght from day form will change to night form and viceversa.
3. Reduce the amount of damage Night Equinox needs to take to stack up Paceful Provocation. Reduce sightly the huge distnace fall of from Pacify.

Mend and Maim:

1. Reduce sightly the cast animation time and increase the power range from 18 meters to 20 at least.
2. Reduce sightly the damage fall of from Main, fix that @(*()$ buf where Corrupted Ancients and any unit linked to them are immune to Maim's damage release.
3. Just like Maim inflicts a Slash proc on enemy units, Mend will inflict a "heal proc" on ally units healing them 25% of their total health the initial cast, and another 25% with 7 tics over 6 seconds. Reduce if needed the health restored by killing enemies to compensate for this or tweak all the numbers, what we need is just an instant heal to give our team some breath until we can stack damage and heal them for full.
4. When changing forms, the aura will simply change just like with the Pacify and Provoke suggestion, instead of vanishing, the damage accumulated will be transfered too. That means that if you're using Maim and accumulating damage and you desperately need to heal your allies, you can change form and release all damage as heals.

What do we get with this? An Equinox that can switch forms and keep her effects active, an Equinox that is not punished for changing forms, but is rewarded for it, an Equinox that encourages the use of her varied and unique skillset and not en Equinox that encourages people of building her just for one of her 7 skills.

I like those even more.

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, Misgenesis said:

Shes just a couple of tweaks away from perfect. Maybe she'll be included in the frame 'QoL' changes list.

I will seriously bet 200 plat on how she wont. Im dead serious.

[Cryostasisprotoss]

1 hour ago, residente said:

As I said in other Equinox topics long time ago and I wish someone took the time to read it and give feedback:

Equilibrium passive is very weak: For every energy orb I collect I regenerate 2 health points, which is a stupid number Imo. Same happens the other way around. I'd either buff it up to a proper amount, or change it completely. We need more passives like Inaros' one, passives that synergize with the whole frame, not stupid and worthless add-ons.

Metamorphosis:

1. The time to change forms should be shorter.
2. Night form should give permanently 125 armor and 75 shields and temporarly another 125 armor and 75 shields that fade off over time instead of giving 250 armor and 150 shields. Same with day form: 60% damage increase and 7% speed increase while on day from and the other half that fades off over time. Maybe tune down the numbers or reduce the Power Strength scaling if needed, but it needs to stay as a passive and not as a buff that after 5 seconds is worthless.

Rest and Rage: No changes

Pacify and Provoke:

1. Increase the power range from 16 to 20 meters at least.
2. Changing forms don't turn off the aura anymore, instead it simply changes it; with Paceful Provaction augment the same will hapen, aura will simply switch and the % accumulated bonus power strenght from day form will change to night form and viceversa.
3. Reduce the amount of damage Night Equinox needs to take to stack up Paceful Provocation. Reduce sightly the huge distnace fall of from Pacify.

Mend and Maim:

1. Reduce sightly the cast animation time and increase the power range from 18 meters to 20 at least.
2. Reduce sightly the damage fall of from Main, fix that @(*()$ buf where Corrupted Ancients and any unit linked to them are immune to Maim's damage release.
3. Just like Maim inflicts a Slash proc on enemy units, Mend will inflict a "heal proc" on ally units healing them 25% of their total health the initial cast, and another 25% with 7 tics over 6 seconds. Reduce if needed the health restored by killing enemies to compensate for this or tweak all the numbers, what we need is just an instant heal to give our team some breath until we can stack damage and heal them for full.
4. When changing forms, the aura will simply change just like with the Pacify and Provoke suggestion, instead of vanishing, the damage accumulated will be transfered too. That means that if you're using Maim and accumulating damage and you desperately need to heal your allies, you can change form and release all damage as heals.

What do we get with this? An Equinox that can switch forms and keep her effects active, an Equinox that is not punished for changing forms, but is rewarded for it, an Equinox that encourages the use of her varied and unique skillset and not en Equinox that encourages people of building her just for one of her 7 skills.

I like your idea. If they finally decided to implement this Equinox would be perfect.

[Antiphoton]

2 hours ago, residente said:

As I said in other Equinox topics long time ago and I wish someone took the time to read it and give feedback:

Equilibrium passive is very weak: For every energy orb I collect I regenerate 2 health points, which is a stupid number Imo. Same happens the other way around. I'd either buff it up to a proper amount, or change it completely. We need more passives like Inaros' one, passives that synergize with the whole frame, not stupid and worthless add-ons.

Metamorphosis:

1. The time to change forms should be shorter.
2. Night form should give permanently 125 armor and 75 shields and temporarly another 125 armor and 75 shields that fade off over time instead of giving 250 armor and 150 shields. Same with day form: 60% damage increase and 7% speed increase while on day from and the other half that fades off over time. Maybe tune down the numbers or reduce the Power Strength scaling if needed, but it needs to stay as a passive and not as a buff that after 5 seconds is worthless.

Rest and Rage: No changes

Pacify and Provoke:

1. Increase the power range from 16 to 20 meters at least.
2. Changing forms don't turn off the aura anymore, instead it simply changes it; with Paceful Provaction augment the same will hapen, aura will simply switch and the % accumulated bonus power strenght from day form will change to night form and viceversa.
3. Reduce the amount of damage Night Equinox needs to take to stack up Paceful Provocation. Reduce sightly the huge distnace fall of from Pacify.

Mend and Maim:

1. Reduce sightly the cast animation time and increase the power range from 18 meters to 20 at least.
2. Reduce sightly the damage fall of from Main, fix that @(*()$ buf where Corrupted Ancients and any unit linked to them are immune to Maim's damage release.
3. Just like Maim inflicts a Slash proc on enemy units, Mend will inflict a "heal proc" on ally units healing them 25% of their total health the initial cast, and another 25% with 7 tics over 6 seconds. Reduce if needed the health restored by killing enemies to compensate for this or tweak all the numbers, what we need is just an instant heal to give our team some breath until we can stack damage and heal them for full.
4. When changing forms, the aura will simply change just like with the Pacify and Provoke suggestion, instead of vanishing, the damage accumulated will be transfered too. That means that if you're using Maim and accumulating damage and you desperately need to heal your allies, you can change form and release all damage as heals.

What do we get with this? An Equinox that can switch forms and keep her effects active, an Equinox that is not punished for changing forms, but is rewarded for it, an Equinox that encourages the use of her varied and unique skillset and not en Equinox that encourages people of building her just for one of her 7 skills.

I would still prefer that Mend applies an absorb with a cap, but I like these options a lot. 

 

In any case, it's great to see that I'm not the only one noticing these issues with my beloved frame. Thank you, guys!

[tnccs215]

2 hours ago, Antiphoton said:

I would still prefer that Mend applies an absorb with a cap, but I like these options a lot. 

 

In any case, it's great to see that I'm not the only one noticing these issues with my beloved frame. Thank you, guys!

Well, I always found mend rather tricky. Everyone's opinion differ quite a lot. The simplest fix (instant heal or something) always seem too bland, and its very hard not to make the ability overpowered.

The result is that there is no consensus regarding this ability in particular... Which can go either way, really.

Regardless, what do you mean, exatly, by "squad absorb"?

[Demlier]

17 hours ago, Antiphoton said:

Equinox is by far my favorite frame, regarding looks and theme. After using her for some time, however, I cannot say the same about her abilities. On paper they look great, but I keep feelling that there is something wrong with their execution.

She is ..wait wait  WHAT equinox is a female? O.o :O whole life in the lie..

 

[LAWD]

Totally agree, equinox should keep the mind busy, I mean its two-in-one, proactiveness and strategy. I feel we should be a bit more complex as your suggestions

[Antiphoton]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

Well, I always found mend rather tricky. Everyone's opinion differ quite a lot. The simplest fix (instant heal or something) always seem too bland, and its very hard not to make the ability overpowered.

The result is that there is no consensus regarding this ability in particular... Which can go either way, really.

Regardless, what do you mean, exatly, by "squad absorb"?

An idea I proposed in a previous reply. Basically, a percentage of the stored damage is applied as an absorb on the squad. Like an extra layer of shields. Obviously, it would need to have a cap to prevent being overpowered. 

[tnccs215]

Just now, Antiphoton said:

An idea I proposed in a previous reply. Basically, a percentage of the stored damage is applied as an absorb on the squad. Like an extra layer of shields. Obviously, it would need to have a cap to prevent being overpowered. 

oh, I see. Similar to iron skin and the like, but with a cap?

agreed. It was already proposed before, and I like that idea. Though, It might also need a time cap. Might.

[Antiphoton]

18 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

oh, I see. Similar to iron skin and the like, but with a cap?

agreed. It was already proposed before, and I like that idea. Though, It might also need a time cap. Might.

Yep. I think that would be great. In other scenarios I wouldn't mind it having a time cap, but after having to deal with the Metamorphosis buff, I'm not too fond of timers.

Anyway, that's just one idea. I hope some of the great things discussed here get implemented. Do you know where can I keep track of news regarding possible future changes? Devstreams and patch notes only?

[tnccs215]

29 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

Yep. I think that would be great. In other scenarios I wouldn't mind it having a time cap, but after having to deal with the Metamorphosis buff, I'm not too fond of timers.

Anyway, that's just one idea. I hope some of the great things discussed here get implemented. Do you know where can I keep track of news regarding possible future changes? Devstreams and patch notes only?

mostly, yes. Steve sometimes tweets some stuff, and some people might dig something and post it on reddit or the forums. Other than that... Well, VERY rarely they give some information-- but usually only when anupdate is late or something.

so yes. We are not as informed as one would like, and I might be excessively skeptical, but I doubt we'll get Equinox changed in the future. She simply is never the priority. Too broken and clunky to be perfect, but with maim (and rest) so borderline overpowered that she is usable enough.

as I said, the middle child