Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Satinpuppies]

Sorties. Also It isn't clearing rooms if stuff doesn't die outright.

18 hours ago, (PS4)True_Gamer_81 said:

Volt's tweaked ultimate is a massive CC and it turns any enemy hit to a tesla, arcing electric damage to nearby enemies. I clear T4 rooms with his rework and what doesn't die outright, is stun locked for the duration. Maybe you should try a strength and duration build.

 

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, Satinpuppies said:

Sorties. Also It isn't clearing rooms if stuff doesn't die outright.

 

It doesn't clear rooms...but it does a far better job in terms off CC instead of damage...until you hit the cap, that is 

[Satinpuppies]

Just now, Wolfnrun said:

It doesn't clear rooms...but it does a far better job in terms off CC instead of damage...until you hit the cap, that is 

Furthers my point precisely. It's fine that it doesn't clear rooms. I was just upset face value because I could before and it was (fun) running along side my ult room to room blowing everything up. But it's k. I'll just stun stuff now.

Still playing him, just no where what he used to be.

Pros are that he scales a lot better in long missions survival, def, interception and that is what matters I suppose..

[Wolfnrun]

1 minute ago, Satinpuppies said:

Furthers my point precisely. It's fine that it doesn't clear rooms. I was just upset face value because I could before and it was (fun) running along side my ult room to room blowing everything up. But it's k. I'll just stun stuff now.

Still playing him, just no where what he used to be.

Pros are that he scales a lot better in long missions survival, def, interception and that is what matters I suppose..

Still not at max potenital, we need waaay more than this...mag got abilitys replaced and there actually not that bad...we didn't even get an oppurtunity to really feel something amazing yet diffrent... Volt is still suffering...  I don't want to say R.I.P Volt but many are leaving volt and going with excalibur and mag... SIGH  not a good sign

[Wolfnrun]

I mean, Mag got abilites replaced and she had lots of experimintation that steered her in the right direction... Volt didn't get, I wouldn't mind going down the road mag did, long as it's worth it... Our struggle continues with the few volts we have left... if I see excalibur glorfied on prime time, Will not be pleased 

[Aquasurge]

12 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

I mean, Mag got abilites replaced and she had lots of experimintation that steered her in the right direction... Volt didn't get, I wouldn't mind going down the road mag did, long as it's worth it... Our struggle continues with the few volts we have left... if I see excalibur glorfied on prime time, Will not be pleased 

i probably think that is the case with the specters of the rail. (waits 5 mins.)

Edited July 7, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, Aquasurge said:

i probably think that is the case with the specters of the rail.

Ohhh nooo.....no...noooo...noooooooooo! This isn't even remotely close to funny! 

[Wolfnrun]

On 6/22/2016 at 11:33 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

Anymore volt coming along after SotR and WW? Please continue experimenting and possibly go down the road mag went... All I ask if for volt to be volt... not a confused stranger that is shunned by the masses...this rework is not finished. Thank you and have a wonderfull week

Edited July 8, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Cytobel]

11 hours ago, Dante123pl said:

wish volt had 2 step ultimate like inaros 

when you hold 4 you buff urself and that could be charge up animation u-u

 

What if Speed were replaced totally?

Follow me here.  If you made the Speed buff part of charging up Volt's 4 (a la Inaros), and left it sort of as is.  Even include the team buff aspect.  Just make Speed the charge-up for Discharge.

Now, when you cast Discharge it would pulse off of each teammate, spreading to cover a large zone in stormy doom.

This could solve issues with range/strength on his Discharge, it doesn't buff damage (unless there is overlap in the Discharge radii), and it opens a slot up for something new in his kit.

Moreover, it mitigates the need for particular stats somewhat.  If Speed isn't Duration-based, then Volt GAINS from Duration WITHOUT REQUIRING IT.  If Discharge radii can overlap and stack damage, then damage becomes a function of team synergy WITHOUT REQUIRING STRENGTH BUILDS.

I won't claim people wouldn't build Strength or Duration still, but neither would be quite as critical.  This also assumes that Speed is made more effective baseline with less Strength scaling (which has to happen if we want to move away from the Speed build in the first place).

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This begs the question: if Speed were built into Discharge, what function should his 2 perform?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Cytobel

[SylvenStar]

11 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

This begs the question: if Speed were built into Discharge, what function should his 2 perform?

I would vote crank up the damage bonus stacks that his passive builds up, if we can't just get a new passive.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

8 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

All I ask if for volt to be volt

with all due respect: no, you're doing more or less the contrary (and pretty persistently, too).

he is no pure skill dps frame and never was despite his obsolete codex description. he's about versatility and damn fine at that imo*. but i'm repeating myself, as most are still posting in this thread. i think everything important has been said, now it's up to DE to make out of it what fits their vision of him. good night sweet prince.

 

(* i'm not asserting my intepretation of volt is more valid than anyone else's, the thing just is: he does work. he is well balanced (albeit with several qol issues). why risk destroying a well rounded design to fit some antiquated lines of text?)

Edited July 8, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

with all due respect: no, you're doing more or less the contrary (and pretty persistenly, too).

Amen.  It's crazy to see people insisting that their arbitrary impression of what they think a frame should be is the only thing that it should ever be.  

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

with all due respect: no, you're doing more or less the contrary (and pretty persistenly, too).

he is no pure skill dps frame and never was despite his obsolete codex description. he's about versatility and damn fine at that imo*. but i'm repeating myself, as most are still posting in this thread. i think everything important has been said, now it's up to DE to make out of it what fits their vision of him. good night sweet prince.

 

(* i'm not asserting my intepretation of volt is more valid than anyone else's, the thing just is: he does work. he is well balanced (albeit with several qol issues). why risk destroying a well rounded design to fit some antiquated lines of text?)

Because Volt is the "fast food" frame in many respects, and hey, eating fast food means you won't starve if we go with your argument, right?  

Is that really the bar?

"At least I won't starve." ???

 He looks great in the commercials and even tastes great initially, but you quickly learn that there are far better choices when it comes to getting the nutritional value needed for fueling your body and athletic performance.

The description can be easily changed once we get a our nutritionally rich Volt...then we can figure out what kind of top-performing athlete we want to be.

Edited July 8, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Cytobel]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Wow, with that build, you must have the patience of a saint and go in with ranged weapons and shields in mind.

I tend to run 200% Power Str with 100% in everything else right now with max Redirection max Primed Flow and max Vitality. I'll swap between rage and power drift and run a 1.45 base speed.  My sentinel's Shield Regen saves me multiple times.

As you have implied, Capacitance is a lot like Riot Shield-it is a nice concept but just doesn't have the juice to warrant the squeeze as enemies scale.  I need that mod slot.

Hopefully, I get to Naramon Invisicrit to expand my role.

Once I get to Sorties 2,3 however, most modes just cause Volt's kit to collapse in the face of other options.

Frost's defense/cc outshines.

Mesa's/Ash's damage outshines.

Nyx's/Nova's CC is superior.

Just a few examples.  I'm not asking to usurp another frame's role, but if unique mechanics via his kit can't be found to make him high-end beneficial, I'd at least like to be comparable in one of the "standard role" areas.

This is what I've been running lately:

Yes, I'm running an Arcane Pulse Helmet.

This build works, but don't expect miracles.  Feel free to run whatever you want for the Aura slot.  I was fooling around trying to see if I could make Riot Shield a workable choice.  It didn't work at all.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Because Volt is the "fast food" frame in many respects, and hey, eating fast food means you won't starve if we go with your argument, right?  

Is that really the bar?

"At least I won't starve." ???

 He looks great in the commercials and even tastes great initially, but you quickly learn that there are far better choices when it comes to getting the nutritional value needed for fueling your body and athletic performance.

The description can be easily changed once we get a our nutritionally rich Volt...then we can figure out what kind of top-performing athlete we want to be.

alright, one last time for good measure:

jack-of-all-trades is his flavour. he is a starter after all.

with some dedication (in modding AND relatively skillful play) he can (even out- imo) shine in almost any department (all the while looking cooler than his competition ;) ).

... what's not to love? :) i'd still pick him over one-skill-ponies any day, in def, extractions, anything really even for soloing all kinds of sorties (except in spy missions because farming ivara made me just wanna skip those with loki by now tbqh).

we have so many specialist frames already, the way he is now he really is unique.

over and out.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Cytobel]

16 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

alright, one last time for good measure:

jack-of-all-trades is his flavour. he is a starter after all.

with some dedication (in modding AND relatively skillful play) he can (even out- imo) shine in almost any department (all the while looking cooler than his competition ;) ).

... what's not to love? :) i'd still pick him over one-skill-ponies any day, in def, extractions, anything really even for soloing all kinds of sorties (except in spy missions because farming ivara made me just wanna skip those with loki by now tbqh).

we have so many specialist frames already, the way he is now he really is unique.

over and out.

Since at least 1592 A.D. (if Wiki is anywhere near correct) there has been a significant negative connotation attached to the idiom "jack of all trades"

Point of face, I can't hear "jack of all trades" and not immediately attach "master of none" to it.

I agree, Volt is really good at doing nothing particularly well.  You are definitely right to say that he unique in this (as per starters, anyway).

I do not agree that this is a good thing, but I respect your right to disagree with me on this point.  I see that there are many different viewpoints on what a 'Frame should or shouldn't do, and I'm alwasy facinated by how varied viewpoints can be.  However, I wonder if "Johannes factotum" is a role that we actually need in this game.

EDIT:  Please don't think I'm calling you out.  I just felt I needed to say something here, partially because of how differently we see the same issue.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Cytobel

[(PSN)Silverback73]

9 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Since at least 1592 A.D. (if Wiki is anywhere near correct) there has been a significant negative connotation attached to the idiom "jack of all trades"

Point of face, I can't hear "jack of all trades" and not immediately attach "master of none" to it.

I agree, Volt is really good at doing nothing particularly well.  You are definitely right to say that he unique in this (as per starters, anyway).

I do not agree that this is a good thing, but I respect your right to disagree with me on this point.  I see that there are many different viewpoints on what a 'Frame should or shouldn't do, and I'm alwasy facinated by how varied viewpoints can be.  However, I wonder if "Johannes factotum" is a role that we actually need in this game.

EDIT:  Please don't think I'm calling you out.  I just felt I needed to say something here, partially because of how differently we see the same issue.

Yep, Q lost me at "starter frame".

Basically, that tells me it is acceptable for him to be an inferior frame.

That condition destroys any meaningful discourse at the start for me. I'm done.

And even if I humor that argument,  it falls apart instantly when you compare him to other "starters".

 

[Cytobel]

Earlier, I asked what Volt's 2nd ability should be if we made Speed* (Shocking Speed, once it's charged far enough) a consequence of charging up Discharge.  I've had a thought there:

Static Flicker (name totally a work in progress).  Static Flicker is a mid-range blink (maybe 30m?) that discharges a short range AoE electric proc (6m radius?) at both ends of the blink.

The idea is pretty straightforward.  Volt is squishy, so he needs ways to prevent himself from taking fire.  He needs to have Speed going to be hard to hit, but he needs Electric Shield to stop shots he can't dodge, leading to a stop-n-go-n-stop-n-go playstyle that seems to be the root cause for many players' discontent with Volt.  By giving Volt a way to just flatly "turn-on" speed, we see the possibility of a fast moving playstyle that DOESN'T PUNISH YOU for needing Electric Shield.

So why a blink?  Well, with a blink you can quickly change positions aggressively, stunning targets as you engage hard on a troublesome group.  Conversely, it's a great escape tool for a 'Frame that really needs it, stunning attackers and repositioning to a location better suited to your needs.  Aslo, a blink is perfect for a 'Frame on the go, getting you past terrain you don't have time to deal with.  Most importantly, a blink lets you move between points without taking fire (something Volt cannot handle well).

This is a move that would work more smoothly in Volt's kit, allowing for a high-speed playstyle with FAR greater tactical flexibility.  You gain an engage, a disengage, and an all-around utility with value to whatever kind of play you prefer.  By integrating Speed into Discharge we can reduce spamming, making Discharge more of a tactical option with both value and consequense.  Additionally, you really have good reason to use Electric Shield when you need to spend a moment charging up for Speed buff.  Without constant recasts of Speed the energy cost of Riot Shield becomes slightly more managable (even though it's still FAR too high and it suffers WAAAAAY too many restrictions).

Shocking Speed is a solid augment, so there should be an equally solid replacement should Speed become a buyilt-in for Discharge.  I propose Static Twin.  When you blink, you briefly create a duplicate of yourself that moves and shoots on it's own.  After a few seconds, it detonates in a medium-scale radial electric proc with knockdown.

Spoiler

The logic (such as it is) behind an electric Warframe having a teleport is this:  electrons can be in more than one place at one time [ref. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/nobel-prize-awarded-to-two-quantum-physicist].  For some time it has been known that photons and electrons have a somewhat "fuzzy" locational existance, and can be understood to exist in whole regions rather than just singular points under certain curcumstances.

What if Volt were able to raise energy states until he had simultaneous existence in two locations very briefly, and then he collapsed into one instance at a point not where he started?  If for a moment we ignore the energy requirements of such a feat and the consequences of such an action at scale, the logic isn't totally unsound.  Indeed, the AoE electric procs at both ends of the blink serve as a means to discharge the energy of such an action, plus it'd both look awesome and ensure Volt survived the transition.

Static Twin is explainable by similarly fuzzy logic in which Volt is in BOTH locations at the same time.  By this train of thought, Volt should survive the destruction of either instance, because the other would be the remaining "real" Volt, and the one that died would be the one that detonates into a nova of cascading electrons and high-energy particles.  Were that a game mechanic though, the discharge of high energy particles would likely function as a radiation proc on the area in which the clone died.

 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

55 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Please don't think I'm calling you out.  I just felt I needed to say something here, partially because of how differently we see the same issue.

no worries, i don't :). yes, this is just a matter of taste really, the only "factual" argument i got is the one about him "working" (as in being well rounded) like he is now. statistics provided by DE showed he is actually a frame picked fairly often so alot of players seem to enjoy him as a "mediocre" frame, me included. so i don't see a reason to rebuild him from the ground up, especially considering there are specialist frames already for any purpose. (maybe the game could use more support variety... but then again volt does even cover that a bit).

anyway peace out, i just thought it's important DE also reads some differing opinions from time to time since those last pages were vastly dominated by stormriders etc. ;)

44 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Basically, that tells me it is acceptable for him to be an inferior frame.

no, he just fits the position because with him new players can find taste for different strategies in missions while playing the starmap.

like i said i do NOT feel he is inferior to any other frame:

1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

with some dedication (in modding AND relatively skillful play) he can (even out- imo) shine in almost any department

also certainly not the other starters, mag and excal. i can't see myself soloing 40 rounds of t4 def with those, or protecting multiple excavation sites at once. his defensive and cc capabilities easily outshine theirs (and arguably even frosts because his shields don't have health).

Edited July 8, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Aquasurge]

2 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Shocking Speed is a solid augment, so there should be an equally solid replacement should Speed become a buyilt-in for Discharge.  I propose Static Twin.  When you blink, you briefly create a duplicate of yourself that moves and shoots on it's own.  After a few seconds, it detonates in a medium-scale radial electric proc with knockdown.

that's probably better suited to a time themed frame i think with time remnants and all.

[Cytobel]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Yep, Q lost me at "starter frame".

Basically, that tells me it is acceptable for him to be an inferior frame.

That condition destroys any meaningful discourse at the start for me. I'm done.

And even if I humor that argument,  it falls apart instantly when you compare him to other "starters".

 

Don't jump him.  He may have a different viewpoint, but that doesn't make it less valid.  I disagree with him in the end, but almost totally because of the stated issues we (as a culture) have with the "jack-of-all-trades" idiom.  I see that there can be soemthing to the "unique by not being focused" arguement, even if I don't see things the same way. 

EDIT:  I have different views of what I want from Volt than most people, I think.  I would be extatic to actually have a little time to talk to people at Digital Extremes on this, to see where they wanted Volt to be in a fight and what he'd be doing.  I am Volt, but I'm not the same Volt as other Volts (if that makes sense).

Edited July 8, 2016 by Cytobel

[(PSN)Silverback73]

16 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Earlier, I asked what Volt's 2nd ability should be if we made Speed* (Shocking Speed, once it's charged far enough) a consequence of charging up Discharge.  I've had a thought there:

Static Flicker (name totally a work in progress).  Static Flicker is a mid-range blink (maybe 30m?) that discharges a short range AoE electric proc (6m radius?) at both ends of the blink.

The idea is pretty straightforward.  Volt is squishy, so he needs ways to prevent himself from taking fire.  He needs to have Speed going to be hard to hit, but he needs Electric Shield to stop shots he can't dodge, leading to a stop-n-go-n-stop-n-go playstyle that seems to be the root cause for many players' discontent with Volt.  By giving Volt a way to just flatly "turn-on" speed, we see the possibility of a fast moving playstyle that DOESN'T PUNISH YOU for needing Electric Shield.

So why a blink?  Well, with a blink you can quickly change positions aggressively, stunning targets as you engage hard on a troublesome group.  Conversely, it's a great escape tool for a 'Frame that really needs it, stunning attackers and repositioning to a location better suited to your needs.  Aslo, a blink is perfect for a 'Frame on the go, getting you past terrain you don't have time to deal with.  Most importantly, a blink lets you move between points without taking fire (something Volt cannot handle well).

This is a move that would work more smoothly in Volt's kit, allowing for a high-speed playstyle with FAR greater tactical flexibility.  You gain an engage, a disengage, and an all-around utility with value to whatever kind of play you prefer.  By integrating Speed into Discharge we can reduce spamming, making Discharge more of a tactical option with both value and consequense.  Additionally, you really have good reason to use Electric Shield when you need to spend a moment charging up for Speed buff.  Without constant recasts of Speed the energy cost of Riot Shield becomes slightly more managable (even though it's still FAR too high and it suffers WAAAAAY too many restrictions).

Shocking Speed is a solid augment, so there should be an equally solid replacement should Speed become a buyilt-in for Discharge.  I propose Static Twin.  When you blink, you briefly create a duplicate of yourself that moves and shoots on it's own.  After a few seconds, it detonates in a medium-scale radial electric proc with knockdown.

  Hide contents

The logic (such as it is) behind an electric Warframe having a teleport is this:  electrons can be in more than one place at one time [ref. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/nobel-prize-awarded-to-two-quantum-physicist].  For some time it has been known that photons and electrons have a somewhat "fuzzy" locational existance, and can be understood to exist in whole regions rather than just singular points under certain curcumstances.

What if Volt were able to raise energy states until he had simultaneous existence in two locations very briefly, and then he collapsed into one instance at a point not where he started?  If for a moment we ignore the energy requirements of such a feat and the consequences of such an action at scale, the logic isn't totally unsound.  Indeed, the AoE electric procs at both ends of the blink serve as a means to discharge the energy of such an action, plus it'd both look awesome and ensure Volt survived the transition.

Static Twin is explainable by similarly fuzzy logic in which Volt is in BOTH locations at the same time.  By this train of thought, Volt should survive the destruction of either instance, because the other would be the remaining "real" Volt, and the one that died would be the one that detonates into a nova of cascading electrons and high-energy particles.  Were that a game mechanic though, the discharge of high energy particles would likely function as a radiation proc on the area in which the clone died.

 

This follows my "living lightning" theme I've posted on before.  Basically, he spends energy over time while in speed/discharge mode and enters a glowing, crackling "energy state" which does the following:

-50% resistance to physical damage

-25% resistance to other non-physical damage types

-Regenerates 5-10 health per second. (Similar to regenerative molt).

Your idea is more along the lines of Mesa's/Zephyr's Kit.

Edited July 8, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Cytobel]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This follows my "living lightning" theme I've posted on before.  Basically, he spends energy over time while in speed/discharge mode and enters a glowing, crackling "energy state" which does the following:

-50% resistance to physical damage

-25% resistance to other non-physical damage types

-Regenerates 5 health per second.

 

I need to sleep on it, but I think that I like the "Static Flicker" notion better.  I'm pretty sure that's what I'd do with Volt, given a "King-for-a-day" scenario.

Okay, to be honest I'd do testing woth people from DE and actually talk about real numbers with the people who understand them best.  I want what I want, but what I need is something that really works.

*Currently puring quietly at the thought of having a blink on Volt*  Let me be for a bit.  I'm gonna be happy with this dream, and maybe go play some Fallout, or build a model kit.  Something not Warframe.  I'm WAAAAAY too in love with this idea.  It's what I'd do if I were actually the Volt.

P.S., this is what I run if I don't give a crap about Speed right now:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Cytobel

[----Dante----]

since volt is nowhere alternate to gunplay and hes powers just favorize it

how about exalted railgun as ult that consumes 3 energy per shot, and has charge up option for more dmg that would take more energy?it would be puncture + electric dmg with punchthrough and targets that got hit are also stuned from electric proc and would also scale from primary weapon mods

discharge is so boring ult that i barely use it

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Dante123pl

[Wolfnrun]

4 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

with all due respect: no, you're doing more or less the contrary (and pretty persistently, too).

he is no pure skill dps frame and never was despite his obsolete codex description. he's about versatility and damn fine at that imo*. but i'm repeating myself, as most are still posting in this thread. i think everything important has been said, now it's up to DE to make out of it what fits their vision of him. good night sweet prince.

 

(* i'm not asserting my intepretation of volt is more valid than anyone else's, the thing just is: he does work. he is well balanced (albeit with several qol issues). why risk destroying a well rounded design to fit some antiquated lines of text?)

We all have a dream as to what volt could be... We all have an opinion  

Edited July 8, 2016 by Wolfnrun