Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I've had a fundamental shift in addressing this issue; a way to move on AND still have an opportunity to create a new, re-imagined Volt.

I've decided to do full-blown concept art design for a Volt Umbra that will come with a new kit as teased by Excaliber Umbra.

There will also be a companion-themed Umbra frame to come after.

Any of the Stalwarts here are welcome to participate in criticism and feedback and development.  I have thick skin.

...Cyto, RealP, Windy...anyone interested.

It will partly be an homage and partly a re-imagining of our beloved Volt and a bit of a love-note to DE for giving us a place to make this all possible.

Lmk

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I've had a fundamental shift in addressing this issue; a way to move on AND still have an opportunity to create a new, re-imagined Volt.

I've decided to do full-blown concept art design for a Volt Umbra that will come with a new kit as teased by Excaliber Umbra.

There will also be a companion-themed Umbra frame to come after.

Any of the Stalwarts here are welcome to participate in criticism and feedback and development.  I have thick skin.

...Cyto, RealP, Windy...anyone interested.

It will partly be an homage and partly a re-imagining of our beloved Volt and a bit of a love-note to DE for giving us a place to make this all possible.

Lmk

im up for that, sounds awesome:)

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Eximus units were dropped around the time pretty much all of us were howling about the "content" issue (specifically, it's lack).

I'm likely wrong here, but I seem to recall the original video teasing Grineer cold eximus' said something about them being specifically adapted for cold climates.  This led many of us to speculate about a new tileset.

I'm pretty sure this was around the time Archwingate happened.  Again, could be wrong, but may not be.

Hell, Nullifiers only happened because we raped the first Balor Formorians so badly that DE couldn't even respond for a while, and when they did it was the power nullification field idea (which I support FROM A BUILDING-SIZED REACTOR).  There was a ton of content just HAPPENING, no context or real planning particularly detectable.

It felt like there was a good 6 months to a year of knee-jerk game "design" in response to people just playing.

This is the timeframe I started saying there should be some mandatory vacations at DE, so people could recover from burnout.

Come to think of it, until Frost's rework I hadn't seen much I could call well thought out or planned.  And then there was that gem The Second Dream...  DE needs to channel some of whatever that was a bit more.  I suddenly remembered how this game started off.

All of that considered, you can understand why I had much higher hopes for this half-baked rework.  I thought we were on the rebound...

EDIT:  Mentioning Frost was a mistake.  Alright, is it just me or was there a suspicious degree of similarity between the logic for these two rebuilds?  Two 'Frames with wildly different needs should deserve different rework logic, right?

What am I talking about?  Think: castable shield rework with contentious mechanics, a rebuilt ult focusing on CC, and a "keystone" first ability that has limited use...

Of course, Frost came out ahead eventually.  The ideas were solid there and Cold damage is good against every faction, plus his pretty similar speed is offset by high armor.  Also, Snowglobe is a better reactive defense response (especially now that it freezes and expells enemies on cast) than a directional Electrical Shield.

On the flip side, I love the changes to Electric Shield (not so it's "interraction" with Shock or its Riot Shield mode), our Shock was solid to start (although it now has a recast timer, which is unwarranted and sucks slightly), and Speed is still Speed.

Aside from some problems with Discharge, an irrelevant in every situation passive, and Electrical damage being a bit bad we SHOULD be in a good place.  Yet we aren't.

Volt has some basic needs that haven't been addressed, and it shows.  He has seen little real change in years while most everything else has shifted.  This rework was due when Damage 2.0 dropped, and we're almost into Damage 3.0 now.

Base Volt and Prime both have issues with his lack of speed, and Base is struggling with that 15 armor and 150 energy pool.  Add on such intensive build requirements and present Electrical damage mediocrity...

TL;DR:  Damage 3.0 might fix a big portion of this problem, but we still need some reviews to the details of the 'Frame.  Most of the problems are small, and as a whole are far greater than the sum of the parts.  That's what drives me mad about this whole thing.

I thought I was the only one.

I can say that it doesn't feel fair

I said it earlier. Ice damage was reworked for frost, and fire damage was reworked for ember

Havnt we always know electricity damage sucked? Isn't that why "shock" eximi were running around with magnetic auras? (i believed so).

And then, even if it was unintentional, they just nerfed electricity with what Realp said.

It's not fair. frost and Excalibur (not including machine gun sword waves) should be the creative freedom expressed in every rework. Even though Saryn has a flavor of limitations just like volt, they aren't as noticeable.

What iv noticed, is that volts rework feels very similar to saryns with the limitations, but saryns isn't as bad because.... Although poison damage does suck, it's not as bad as electricity. And she has all 4 different types. So it's not as bad.

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I've had a fundamental shift in addressing this issue; a way to move on AND still have an opportunity to create a new, re-imagined Volt.

I've decided to do full-blown concept art design for a Volt Umbra that will come with a new kit as teased by Excaliber Umbra.

There will also be a companion-themed Umbra frame to come after.

Any of the Stalwarts here are welcome to participate in criticism and feedback and development.  I have thick skin.

...Cyto, RealP, Windy...anyone interested.

It will partly be an homage and partly a re-imagining of our beloved Volt and a bit of a love-note to DE for giving us a place to make this all possible.

Lmk

Sounds pretty neat! 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 6/25/2016 at 5:30 PM, Wolfnrun said:

I still want speed to be an ability buff rather then just what is does now. Can I hear some opinions on allowing speed do more for abilites such as increasing damage output and or other things at the possible cost of a higher energy cost? 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Don't attack me

 

 

 

I had a tactical idea for speed. Was looking back through the forums and saw this. It doesnt matter now that speed is opt out again, but...

Basically, the area where you cast speed would be "charged", and leave an arc trap/electically charge area that would affect enemies passing through or by it.

Another idea I had at the time was that speed would travel to nearby allies like Mesa's shooting gallery, and this could stay opt in.

Now, you would back flip to outright cancel the effects, but the ability would automatically take effect, and to run at your frames normal Sprint speed, you toggle sprint off, although it could also be opt in like this.

Edited July 29, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Speed

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I had a tactical idea for speed. Was looking back through the forums and saw this. It doesnt matter now that speed is opt out again, but...

Basically, the area where you cast speed would be "charged", and leave an arc trap/electically charge area that would affect enemies passing through or by it.

Another idea I had at the time was that doped would travel to nearby allies like Mesa's shooting gallery, and this could stay opt in.

Now, you would back flip to outright cancel the effects, but the ability would automatically take effect, and to run at your frames normal Sprint speed, you toggle sprint off, although it could also be opt in like this.

Am I the only one that wants the hasten coil back? have it be an electric sprinkler? Yes? no? 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Just now, Wolfnrun said:

Am I the only one that wants the hasten coil back? have it be an electric sprinkler? Yes? no? 

.....I don't think it worked as a team buff, but as a side effect of speed, it would be nice....

But the hasten coil back as how teammates grab speed?....no, I'm not on that train. Sorry:/

[Wolfnrun]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

.....I don't think it worked as a team buff, but as a side effect of speed, it would be nice....

But the hasten coil back as how teammates grab speed?....no, I'm not on that train. Sorry:/

No, I didn't mean have it back as in an opt in system to get speed, I mean give it a mechanic like CC enemies, damage nearby enemies, not give you speed, that's already been solved 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(XBOX)ZeRo MeRcY]

On 5/27/2016 at 2:52 PM, Exodess said:

Looking at the changes to Mag and Volt reminds me of how they wrecked my Saryn. It really seems like they're spreading the exact same basic mechanics to different frames with only a mild difference in flavor, without concern to the "role" those frames play or even regard to whether other frames with the same abilities can do more or better (Nova, the ultimate nuker with powerful CC, comes to mind when comparing these 3.)

Now, if this is the direction that DE is going for for all frames, I would understand and tolerate it as a universal nerf, but the problem is they are nerfing the weakest tiered frames first, and this makes absolutely no sense by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm sorry wrecked saryn? Try spore max range high damage. Use Ignis Watch numbers.

Edited July 29, 2016 by (XB1)ZeRo MeRcY
Ignis is the best way to spread the pain

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)ZeRo MeRcY said:

I'm sorry wrecked saryn? Try spore max range high damage. Use Ignis Watch numbers.

Argument validated. 

Watch numbers. Warframe is not a game where you need to be sitting back watching numbers, that I can agree with.

And no one called the "situational loadout specific meta solutions to the rescue" hotline

Edited July 29, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
This about volt anyways

[(PSN)ShiroPhyla]

15 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I tried to leave in peace, and you dig this up. Bait bitten. As someone else said, Saryn gripes belong in Saryn threads.

Official volt buisiness here, nothing to see.

  Reveal hidden contents

Situational solution : "don't let enemies get behind you".

Don't get shot/don't get flanked. 

Iv been rolling for years, it's actually a terrible habit. Feels super ridiculous when doing a mission with normal people who just run and your falling over yourself on the ground like an idiot that can't walk straight.

Doesn't mean that in warframe you are ever going to have a moment where enemies are not behind you. Even if you spend the whole mission twirling around. Unless you are playing non endless missions, specifically exterminates...every enemy will be in front of you...I hate when people use exterminates in conversations as evidence of anything working correctly. Obviously though, it is apart of the game. Situationally, you won't have enemies behind you in the game, sometimes. 

Spores has a timer. But I can never keep spores up on enemies, spreading it from target to target long enough for the timer to even matter. The timer is just a countermeasure set up just in case players keep spores up longer than DE wants you to. Melee feels even worse at spreading spores than using a primary. Enemies die too quickly, and at the level where they can withstand my spores and my attacks long enough to spread the effect (grineer lvl 45-50) they are already destroying my molt, and murdering my health. 

3 things :

·I use venka, because I can and you can't tell me not to. They work perfectly fine.

·I run with saryn primes base armor of 250 and a vitality, regenerative molt, viazarin, healing things. No I don't have medi ray. No I don't have drift mods. No, I have not gone to the moon enough times to grind for them (or wherever you might get medi ray, if consoles even have that yet), just went to the moon to sight see and realize that sentients were nothing how I imagined theyd be.

·I am largely a solo player because my WiFi usually sucks. Usually. Like, I'm the game that causes doors to not open and loot to get stuck thousands of miles into the walls.

---> I am aware that I can recast and recast and recast spores every couple of seconds on every enemy I see. I do.

But a few situational solutions to these problems would be : Gas ignis/Aoe poison weapons that you aren't bringing for any other reason but for spores. 

And getting those healing mods, and sacrificing energy economy for life strike.

 And not letting enemies touch me.

What did you think you would accomplish by suggesting rejeuve to someone who has a problem staying alive...? Did you think I wasn't running it? Or the comment about standing out in the open?

I will download gameplay if you specifically wish to see me play saryn, but it you just want to know what it looks like when I play warframe, I'll dig up a post I did over nova. Just, that silly comment about standing out in the open.....

And I am building the mk1 ogris for the third time (once for the novelty of it and mastery fodder. 2 because it got changed visually and I was expecting it has finally been changed to the regular ogris that bombards use 3. Because I want to make an informed post about it and it's stupidity. I'm already half way there , half way there, halfway there*you look down and see a record stuck on repeat*

 

Did i somehow respond to something in the wrong thread? Idk how that happened. Im just popping in on mobile and responding to responses

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Just now, (PS4)ShiroPhyla said:

Did i somehow respond to something in the wrong thread? Idk how that happened. Im just popping in on mobile and responding to responses

This was what I was talking about something like a week ago. Maybe it was only a few days, time passes weird, but it isn't a fresh post by any means. My phone lags like that too sometimes. 

[FitzSimmons]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

1.  Is the frame fun to play?

2.  Does the frame excel at something to make it stand out?

3.  Is the frame competitive with other frames at high difficulties and therefore relevant in squads?

4.  Does the frame offer unique experiences in any way?

Satisfying all 4 of these conditions gives you the successful rework everyone is looking for.

is that even possible? satisfying everyone? im pretty satisfied with volt rework despite the drawbacks.

is nova fun to play? should be. according to people i met and play with. but nova isn't fun for me at all. same with other frames that people think its fun but i dont feel the same way. 

does volt excel at something to make it stand out? not just at something, to me volt is excel at some things that makes me feel so comfortable using it. i can do any kind of mission with any kind of gameplay with it. but not everyone agree to that. 

i dont know people's standard of a frame being competitive with other frames in high difficulties. 

to me personally all frames offer unique experiences in some way that i can't describe them.

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by FitzSimmons

[Aquasurge]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I've had a fundamental shift in addressing this issue; a way to move on AND still have an opportunity to create a new, re-imagined Volt.

I've decided to do full-blown concept art design for a Volt Umbra that will come with a new kit as teased by Excaliber Umbra.

There will also be a companion-themed Umbra frame to come after.

Any of the Stalwarts here are welcome to participate in criticism and feedback and development.  I have thick skin.

...Cyto, RealP, Windy...anyone interested.

It will partly be an homage and partly a re-imagining of our beloved Volt and a bit of a love-note to DE for giving us a place to make this all possible.

Lmk

same here silver- i am ready and waiting. just message me when you are ready to start.

[(XBOX)ZeRo MeRcY]

6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Argument validated. 

Watch numbers. Warframe is not a game where you need to be sitting back watching numbers, that I can agree with.

And no one called the "situational loadout specific meta solutions to the rescue" hotline

I was simply responding to an accusation about a frame i enjoy. Rudeness wasn't a part of my statement, why is it in yours?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)ZeRo MeRcY said:

I was simply responding to an accusation about a frame i enjoy. Rudeness wasn't a part of my statement, why is it in yours?

I would love to have polite conversations with everyone, but as you spend more time in conversations on the forums, specifically the battlefield of the feed back section...

Slightly inappropriate video

 

 

 

Lame excuse: Because your argument sounded a lot like the ones used to defend nullifiers. Specifically. 

Also because as long as this post is going to keep going, we need to try to keep it about volt.

But: my apologies, sorry about that. I'll give you a civil response.

I love saryn too. But the ease of use experienced when carrying a specific weapon does not cancel out the lacking aspects of her kit. Nerf the spread affects from aoe weapons, and increase the range at which spores spread naturally.

Edited July 30, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Stuff

[Cytobel]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ZeRo MeRcY said:

I was simply responding to an accusation about a frame i enjoy. Rudeness wasn't a part of my statement, why is it in yours?

It's not really my place to apologize, however I'm sad to say many of us left in thread are becoming somewhat venomous.  We're not doing it deliberately, but central aspects of the feedback were outright ignored.  This has led us to be waspish and somewhat quick to read into posts.  Correction:  this is the case with me, so I assume it's somewhat widespread.

The thing about this thread is that important points have been brought up over and over without acknowledgement from the Devs.  It's not a good feeling, especially when the only real excuse has been the whole Specters of the Delayed Again debacle.  How much content has been held off, how many needed fixes have been outright ignored, how many grievances are unheeded all for the sake of whatever this thing is supposed to be?

At this point we're short about 4 weapons, 2 weekend events, and some skins, not to mention severely delayed fixes to aspects of Volt that simply don't work.  This is the Volt thread, but by now some of the bad feelings from the rest of matters are bleeding over here too.

While this IS about Volt, it's starting to become as much about Warframe as a whole.  While I'm most concerned with Volt, I see greater troubles brewing game-wide.  I haven't heard this much community discontent for a long time.

I hope Volt sees the improvements we've discussed that are appropriate to game, and I hope it's soon.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Thank you Cytobel 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Cytobel said:

It's not really my place to apologize, however I'm sad to say many of us left in thread are becoming somewhat venomous.  We're not doing it deliberately, but central aspects of the feedback were outright ignored.  This has led us to be waspish and somewhat quick to read into posts.  Correction:  this is the case with me, so I assume it's somewhat widespread.

The thing about this thread is that important points have been brought up over and over without acknowledgement from the Devs.  It's not a good feeling, especially when the only real excuse has been the whole Specters of the Delayed Again debacle.  How much content has been held off, how many needed fixes have been outright ignored, how many grievances are unheeded all for the sake of whatever this thing is supposed to be?

At this point we're short about 4 weapons, 2 weekend events, and some skins, not to mention severely delayed fixes to aspects of Volt that simply don't work.  This is the Volt thread, but by now some of the bad feelings from the rest of matters are bleeding over here too.

While this IS about Volt, it's starting to become as much about Warframe as a whole.  While I'm most concerned with Volt, I see greater troubles brewing game-wide.  I haven't heard this much community discontent for a long time.

I hope Volt sees the improvements we've discussed that are appropriate to game, and I hope it's soon.

Just keep in mind the law of diminishing returns, here.

Those of us who are truly passionate about Volt need to remember why we fell in love with him at the beginning, and remember it as a gift from DE.  

 

As Vets (and whales) we play an important role in Warframe's continued success, but must also understand that the game continues to evolve like an ever-more complex ecosystem of checks and balances.

Volt is one piece, and we champion him and his place within it as it continues to evolve, but must be patient and have understanding and respect as DE boldly goes forward with blessings for success.

 

The game is at a point where the need/demands for strategy, increased difficulty, and challenges for veterans of high-end content have slowly created a paradigm shift that has slammed into the established, addictive power-fantasy culture of a visceral, fast-paced mass-kill mob shooter in a dungeon crawl with super-hero space ninja demigods.

 

Marrying those two successfully will determine Warframe's fate.

[Cytobel]

@(PS4)Silverback73: Stop making sense at me.  I got enough of that from the guy who brews good mead a few blocks from where I live when I picked up a bottle each of coffee and sarsaparilla mead (he was actually being sensible, not pushing alcohol).

I've had enough logic, and I now have something else to do other than worry about whether Volt will be fixed.

Honestly, I was looking forward to Specters of the Unreachable Update.  The thing is this:  I budget for my pleasures.  August is the month I spend with Adam Jensen learning what a "Space Ninja" goddamn well should be again.

I can't wait for the day we see some changes here that bring Volt around, and make me stop hating the other elemental 'Frames just because they work.  Until then I'm likely going to do daily stuff (at freaking most) and then Fallout or Deus Ex my way into actual badass ninja town.  Hell, I might snag some random ninja games just to try to recall what that term even means in gaming.

I have no desire to play a "Space Ninja" that feels about as awesome as 6 hours of Microsoft Spreadsheet.

Engaging gameplay.  This I need, and I need it to come from Volt.

EDIT: Dear DE, please note that our desires align in this.  I just want it more than I wanted a Scan Hammer that does nothing other than make me miss FireFall.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Cytobel
It's really good mead, and jetpacks rock.

[ThymeL0rd]

I'm not gonna read thru 54 pages, so apologies if this has already been suggested.... but what if volt's first ability could have a toggle option? As in, you can keep a continuous stream of Electricity or just a zap like it is atm :)

[Aquasurge]

2 hours ago, Cytobel said:

I just want it more than I wanted a Scan Hammer that does nothing other than make me miss FireFall.

same here

[Aquasurge]

also this

 

[Cytobel]

Elemental Warframes should have at least partial resistance to their corresponding element.  We've said it for years.

Anyone else thing the Ember passive should just be a thing that an elemental 'Frame gets from being hit by it's element?  It'd be much more interesting to see Volt get turbocharged by lightning than spend a few minutes running in circles to get numbers.

EDIT: A master of electrical doom shouldn't be put off by a little storm...

Edited July 30, 2016 by Cytobel

[Aquasurge]

13 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Elemental Warframes should have at least partial resistance to their corresponding element.  We've said it for years.

Anyone else thing the Ember passive should just be a thing that an elemental 'Frame gets from being hit by it's element?  It'd be much more interesting to see Volt get turbocharged by lightning than spend a few minutes running in circles to get numbers.

i guess if we updated the elemental resistance mods to be more like the shadow debt mods......