Excalibur Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[keen211]

3 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Why would you need to blind a group of enemies that you can oneshot? Spin attack is a bit over x2 damage of a normal attack - not that much of a difference. Now imagine that you went and pressed 2 for extra damage on that group of enemies you can oneshot anyway, and then. I dunno, 3 Napalms walk out of a corner and your RB is in cooldown - what a nice situation to be in. And I am well aware that losing energy for spin blinds sucks, however people don't seem to understand that even now you need that spin blind, despite the energy cost, were you to go against something you can't oneshot - as the proposal of "remove spin blind then" keeps coming up.

 I regularly solo T4S to more than 40 with excal and I must say I NEVER feel the need to use the spin blind, I have no idea what you're talking about. Now the energy cost really annoys me since whenever I accidentally slide attack I lose precious energy.

[OniMuramasa]

The Changes made to him are okay i have to admit that, its tacticaly sound, but the cost on the mini blind, devs that unique mechanic was like a gift to us, melee close ranged players. Close range play is how i play and that mini blind lets me get right in there and deal some damage to a large group while popping the regular blind techniuqe. Please remove the cost to the mini blind, i beg you guys the rest of the edits can stay.

p.s. Exalted blade do need some new combos.

[Trekiros]

5 hours ago, keen211 said:

 I regularly solo T4S to more than 40 with excal and I must say I NEVER feel the need to use the spin blind, I have no idea what you're talking about. Now the energy cost really annoys me since whenever I accidentally slide attack I lose precious energy.

Slide Blind is just a nice alternative to Radial Blind. The damage multiplier, range, and duration aren't as high, but you can spam it and it doesn't force you into assassination animations which are so very long.

It isn't the most optimal thing Excal can do by any means, but it is definitely useful.

My only problem with that change is how it was justified. They want to force us to go melee, but the biggest nerf is on our skill with the shortest range ? What ?

 

Well, assuming none of the current changes go, here are the three changes I'd have on Excal :

-Slide Blind rebinded to slide attack+ hold E. That way we get to slide attack without spending energy.

-Radial Javelin pulls enemies towards Excal. Not a suggestion I came up with, but my favorite RJ suggestion by far. The idea is, DE doesn't want nukes in Warframe, so we gotta have some utility on this thing instead.

-EB gets a charge attack. Super big wave with no/less damage falloff, for crowds. Except make it cost some energy. It would make the Slide Blind change feel less out of place, and give Excal back the power he had - except in a way that encourages decision making.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Trekiros

[Epsik-kun]

19 hours ago, keen211 said:

 I regularly solo T4S to more than 40 with excal and I must say I NEVER feel the need to use the spin blind, I have no idea what you're talking about. Now the energy cost really annoys me since whenever I accidentally slide attack I lose precious energy.

40 minutes of T4S can be done with waves. Even now.

Anyway, level 100 Bombard (the one you can easily face without spending a hour in a survival) takes around 25~30 hits to kill with EBlade only, 20~25 with Naramon. With Spin Blind you will kill him in 4~10 hits - Naramon or not. If you go over 40 minutes of T4S and you NEVER feel the need to use spin blind - you like killing stuff slow.

And now let's think about something with a level a bit higher.

Spoiler

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
Removed baiting, off-topic comment.

[CryvernX]

something needs to be done with spin attack cost,either tone it down or make it actually worth it. everything else is fine

Edited June 2, 2016 by CryvernX

[keen211]

4 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Anyway, level 100 Bombard (the one you can easily face without spending a hour in a survival) takes around 25~30 hits to kill with EBlade only, 20~25 with Naramon. With Spin Blind you will kill him in 4~10 hits - Naramon or not. If you go over 40 minutes of T4S and you NEVER feel the need to use spin blind - you like killing stuff slow.

 Nah I'm not killing stuff slow, I'm just using regular blind instead of spin blind. That said however I wouldn't be opposed to keeping the slide blind as part of the skill but the energy cost MUST go.

[(PSN)Soulofthewind]

I know Excalibur got this rework and all but I'd just like to spitball a couple of ideas that might make him into the swordsman we all want to see.

I thought that Excalibur's exalted blade would just not have wave attacks normally and instead the waves would be a secondary fire that would have a small cool down (3 seconds or so), high damage, and cost a portion of energy just to prevent as much spamming as possible. So you could slash your way through the lighter enemies and when it comes to higher damage targets, you could unleash one of those waves to take them down.

Another issue that doesn't seem to get enough attention to it is that his radial javelin doesn't scale very well into higher levels, one poster mentioned earlier, it becomes more of a expensive stun. If that gets fixed I'm sure people would use it more often, at least to have more crowd control capability so we don't have to rely on exalted blade as much for crowd control.

I usually main Excalibur and I always accidentally steal kills from my friend because I'm slashing the guys in front of me but I also take down the guys he's fighting in the background. Plus, I just don't "feel" like Excalibur, like I'm supposed to be the incredible swordsman of the frames. So I thought that these changes might change that a bit.

[Sorise]

Being upclose w/ Blade should be more rewarding

[Seulb]

Mostly I am cool with the Excal change except for the cost of the mini RB I would rather give up the mini RB entirely than have a cost for slide attacks. I have seen it suggested to make the mini RB tied to using channeling which would be good though I would still say the mini RB at its current cost does not justify its use even with the change to make it selective. I will say regardless of if the mini RB is selective or not it either needs some buffs in range and perhaps duration or its cost.

[mayhemzen]

i find my self wondering how long it will take for the energy cost on the blind to come off. hopefully soon.  this is a deal breaker for me. i'll just stop playing and paying.

[Sytohden]

Change eb duration to be as it would be in a duration build, about 1 energy per second, and just let us build for the rest of the skills. At least it would be easier to build excal a little more creatively allowing us to find some way to play him properly now that he's been castrated of his endgame damage. And get rid of the slide blind, at the moment its useless because of the energy drain and I prefer using a real blind anyway. If I wasn't limited to a duration build in order to use a lackluster eb I might be able to focus on other aspects. I also think since you're neutering eb specifically anyway you should just tie its damage directly to the melee weapon and take away the bladebeams entirely, apparently immortal swordsman style is too epic, that way you're getting all the benefits of the melee weapon plus a boost from power str and then it would actually be worthwhile to run eb. It would be nice if eb would also take a stance from a weapon. Then we would be getting into some serious creative melee gameplay with excal instead of everyone being all upset about bladebeams, something that's just too cool for them to accept. You can't just remove all the benefits and not give some other worthwhile benefit. Excal has been my favorite frame since I started playing this game and I'm taking a break at the moment untill this is sorted out. I run a 9 forma prisma excal that can either eb or rj and run maxxed mods. Excal has been like my swiss army knife for endgame content, paired with a couple good weapons he was unstoppable, but now I can't help but feel that his epicness has severely declined. He's not a worthwhile dps anymore, he's not tough enough to take a hit, his energy consumption is too high, and we're limited to building for eb if we even want to use it at all... which we don't...

[Douglas3d]

The only problem I have with the Excal changes are the EB slide RB cost. Like many others have stated its nowhere near as powerful as RB alone, and the energy cost is not necessary. Especially since there is a constant drain with EB. I rarely use EB as a turret, preferring to get in close. (Slide attacks do increased damage as well as EB doing more damage by hitting with the blade rather than the with waves.) Making the slide Blind cost half of RB's cost drains energy soo fast it forces EB to be used as range only. I don't use the slide for its blind I use it because of the style and attack benefits. The blind is a small bonus. When I want to RB with EB, I slide attack into a group of enemies for the increased damage and then use RB to CC half the room then use finishers (since the mini blind is too short range and doesn't open up prompted finishers) for those still standing or too far away from the slide in attack. Not to mention the slide also lowers incoming damage because you slide right under incoming fire and melee attacks. Making slide attacks excellent for movement. Either remove the energy cost or take of the mini blind :)

[SquireAngel]

So, no real issues with eb, more some constructive suggestions. As eb is a melee override, we don't have to worry about other guns or melee abilities. With that in mind, I feel that Excalibro should have some minor ability option mapping done. While the price on the radial blind is understandable, would it be possible to map it to guard and spin? Some of use just want a good old spin attack to get to that next batch of enemies, and this feels like it could be moderately implemented to allow the choice between the cost of a radial or just a distance closer. Also, could we have blade beams mapped as a roggle? I would actually like to shut off the blades as use the sword just as that, a sword. Mapping it to toggle on alt fire would allow freeDom of choice between old fashion sword swinging and 'turret mode'. I like Valkyr for her override and the in your face gameplay, would love to be able to do some of that on excal. 

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Look on valkyr's spin attack,its for free and the most powerfull attack in the game.For me DE laid my favorite hero excalibur to his final rest.Im sick of all those changes and nerv's.Who wants a nerv for excalibur every damn new patch?No one.Its the worst think DE can do,fix a frame to death while others are far more powerfull and all the time we had to get used to changes for a single frame we play . Is there an end in sight for excalibur changes?I hope so but i think not.Whe all had to be strong and accept excaliburs death. As the oldest frame he has done enough . Still not the death  he deserved. *cry*

[Desperado14]

Honestly, I'm glad that exalted blade finely got the nerf, but there is still something missing.  Everyone has mentioned the spin attack energy thing, and I will agree that that the spin attack does not need to have a blind, nor take up extra energy.  Also at this point, I can do more dps with my nikana prime with blood rush and body count, than I can with exalted blade.  This, coupled to the fact that the spin attack takes more energy makes exalted blade pretty useless.  I think there is a lot of potential for exalted blade, but it needs more damage if it is suppose to be close range.  

Also, if excalibur is suppose to be close range, he could also use a titch more health.  Shields are fine, and armor is great, but honestly, his closer melee-ish range means capitalizing on rage aND life strike is important, and that's kind of hard to do right now, or at least harder than saryn or valkyr.

Overall, excalibur's 1st three abilities, coupled with the augment mods, are more than enough to make him my favorite.  But he is kind of virtually missing his 4th ability right now.  

[(PSN)Faustx19]

A melle user slides to evade bullets and spin attacks a group of enemys.Excalibur is THE melee frame,if it costs energy in eb you are forced to use it ranged but it deals no damage on range.To say this makes sennse can only come frome non excalibur players.The melee frame itself looses energy like hell while slide attack and eb drains anyway.Every melee user slides all the time for extra damage , evading and wide attack range.This is suppressed by force from DE on excaliburs eb and range is also no option.Just stupid and nothing less.Who says its cool and makes sense does not play the game for long,do not play excalibur or both.

[KazBrekker]

Exalted blade now does significantly less damage in all combat scenarios, this has not incentivized him to get into fray but to depend even more on radial blind. Especially since people are saying that the blade itself does damage, however said damage is far to low to be viable versus most foes, and now with the slide attack costing more energy than its worth, people turn to radial blind.

Which would seem like a solution; a middle ground to where DE wants Excalibur to be in the fray but maintaining about 60% of the damage output he had previously (this effective damage nerf was unnecessary imo). The problem with this is that radial blind prompts finishers -which is by no means a bad thing in normal circumstances. However, this means that when you would try getting to the 2m range at which exalted blade is dealing the maximum(previously normal) damage -or smacking an enemy with the blade itself- it would simply proc a finisher, which in turn will decrease the speed of which you kill enemies overall.

Following the theme of the general nerf to Excalibur's AoE, the waves should get smaller and deal a *capped* damage drop-off (50% imo to match shotguns) in terms of distance but *not* number of enemies passed through. It doesn't make sense if we are encouraged to be in close combat range with excalibur, start hacking into a group of level 100 heavy gunners only to kill the first one while having little effect on the enemies behind, especially when the one behind can shoot you with full damage regardless of the group in front of him/her.  

 

[Rolunde]

A little late to the discussion (and no I haven't read every post, pages and pages of what mostly look like the same thing though) but-

For what it is worth, I am in the camp of being mostly OK with EB as it is now post-re-work with the exception of the "slide attack = mini-RB".

I slide attack a lot. Like some, for me it's practically a reflex habit at this point. I'd be happy having the RB aspect of EB just removed completely.

I actually do use RB frequently, I love it in fact! But I use it as the "2" when I want it, not as a Slide on EB.

So paying half the cost for a cut down Blind because I want to Slide Attack, yeah but no. I'd really rather just have it be gone over even having it be "free".

As to the Waves and Damage Drop Off. I totally get it and am on board with it. Exal and his Blade are meant to be Melee, he's a Swordsman. Awesome.

Although the Waves have been really nice and pretty useful I'd also be OK with them going away too. But I do think EB would need a nice bit of Reach to make up for it.

Like Orthos Prime Reach. ;-)

Then I think that EB would be an amazing melee power.

And yes, if the EB melee combos don't have a damage boost built in to them, then that'd be nice too. Because I do like melee combos (when i can pull them off, heh).

So that's my piece- 

TL;DR - Remove RB from EB Slide Attack, remove Blade Waves and give EB a generous Reach in line with other existing farther reaching melee weapons.

I'd love an EB Slide Attack to act as if I'd done a slide using the Orthos Prime, but with that sweet sweet Exalted Blade of his. 

Thank you! ~R~ 

[Epsik-kun]

>ITT Excalibur users want to nerf Excal to death by removing Slide Blind.

What a time to live in.

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Times where you better use other frames to get the job done.

[Epsik-kun]

To be honest, the nerf has zero impact on Excal if you don't run overextended survivals. I am personally salty, because that's exactly what I do with Excal. DE went out of their way to nerf me specifically.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Overextendet survival runs are no problem for other frames and was once no problem with excalibur. Understand that this is a nerf from many.Excalibur gets nerfs and changes all the time.Its enough.Im the first scratching the game with my nails from the ps4 in the moment i read the excalibur patch note .

[Ikusias]

Excalibur rework was unneeded: it was the only frame until now that was reworked decently, all the others were ground into the dust

this last adjustment touched aspects that were fine without reason and does'nt add anything of value:

- his passive is still worthless - excalibur is a swordsman? give his bonus to all bladed weapons and a more significant bonus to damage! +20% instead of a measly 10% would be right (and make other frames passives decent, oberons and nix in particular are offensive in their inutility! and mesa's still doesn't work properly)

- exalted blade needs additional effects or moves when melee-channelling during the combos, as it energy consumption becomes obscene without a noticeable damage boost - larger energy waves, a bigger blade or the like would be nice, also a more rounded moveset

- the mini radial blind on slide attacks should remain energy free, no weapon or stance taxes you on specific maneuvers except channelling, personally i'd prefer a circular energy wave instead of the scaled down wersion of another power -  in all cases mini blind cost in energy is out of this world, do you playtest these changes before release? (oh well we are STILL in BETA, silly me)

- energy waves were good how they were, they are relatively slow so long range blading isn't overpowered and who is able to take advantage of it deserves the utility

All in all Excalibur was in a good spot and had an ultimate ability that was the epitome of good balancing between downsides, power and fun of use, lowering the bar like this is a coward's move, especially considering the half assed reworks of most other ultimate abilities after excalibur -volt's is still mediocre, ember can't be used above low level content without augments, mesa is a wreck, hidroid & oberon need a total overhaul...

Personally i'd prefer a rollback on Excalibur changes, i don't apreciate them and I'm not convinced of the direction DE is steering development

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Ikusias,you see and feel it exactly like i do.Your words touch my soul.But sadly in the moment the synoid gamacore was nerfed (Ok,nerf for that is ok but nerf to useless is to much) its like DE tasted blood on nerf thinks to death.I fear there is no hope for excalibur .Even worse , not the last excalibur nerf.Kill excalibur and you kill warframe you hear DE?!So many nerf and nerf,that on excalibur is one to much.That will not end goog for both sides,gamers and DE .

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Lets clear some melee facts.My excalibur 's eb has 550 ground dmg,melee weapon cut mods like buzz kill and and all maxed.In a sortie defence an lv 115 infested exismus needs  4 slide attacks and 4 critical hit animations or even more.That takes some time.Valkyr needs one or highest 2 slide attacks.Valkyr do the slide attack faster as excalibur cause she do not blind.Here the sad and funny think;7 Bullets ,1 magazine from my brakk took 1 second .1 second to kill him and all other enemys behind him.That fact and the fact DE think it is necessary to nerf excalibur is something i can not understand.Even the far more powerfull valkyr is a weak granny against my pistol.The melee of warframe is  funn , on hard missions nothing compared to firearms.So the melee itself needs more power to ballance the game.Notice that i do not need to get in close range and deal far more damage as every melee weapon with my guns.Thats exactly how it should NOT be.Nikana prime,slightly over 1000 cut,500 elemental.Brakk, over 8000 elemental , round 2500 base types damage ,unleash 7 bullets in 1 second.And there are more powerfull firearms.If it gets hard melee is not an option.Excalibur is not an option if it gets hard.And still nerf him? This gets completely out of control.