Better Passives (Vauban, Chroma, Ember, Hydroid, Limbo, Mag, Nyx, Oberon)

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I want to make some suggestions about changes for passives for several frames, along with the reason I think they should be changed.

Chroma

Spoiler

Chroma's passive, IMO, doesn't really count as one right now. The fact that changing colors changes the frame's type requires active use and doesn't activate in missions; it's a customization tool, not a passive. Therefore it should stay, but not be considered a passive.

New passive: Chroma will do 15% extra damage to enemies who damage him. Chroma is supposed to tank, and this encourages tanking. The 15% boost may be too high, but I think 10% at the least is still good.

 

Ember

Spoiler

Ember's current passive requires her to get hit, which IMO isn't a great passive for a squishy frame. Moreover, it's to get hit with a heat proc--which means either a fire hazard, or one of the high DPS enemies like Anti Moas or Scorches. It's also not even possible to do for many mission types.

New passive: Enemies "panicked" (the animation where they wave their hands around and don't do anything after getting heat proc'd) from any source are open to finishers from Ember. This fits Ember's theme, but is more than just a bonus to her abilities as it can happen from any source.

 

Hydroid

Spoiler

Hydroid's current passive seems problematic only because tentacles are such a pain sometimes; being inaccurate and preventing you from being able to shoot targets. We're going to make a slight change.

 

New passive: on ground slam, Hydroid has a 50% chance to create a mini-puddle (Undertow-like) for 3-5 seconds that does damage to enemies that slip and fall onto it. Unlike Undertow, they don't fall in and out of view, thus can still be shot or stabbed.

 

Limbo

Spoiler

Limbo's passive isn't bad. The problem? I don't really think it's a passive; it's more or less just a benefit of Rift Walk/Catalyst which actively require casting.

For Limbo's passive I'm going to suggest something more "magician" thematic than rift-based.

New passive: Limbo has 20% chance to magically instantly reload his gun.

 

Mag

Spoiler

Mag's passive seems like a bad carrier. Let's give her something more interesting.

New passive: Mag has 5% chance to disarm an enemy within 20 meters by bringing their weapons to her.

 

Nyx

Spoiler

Nyx's passive has several problems. It is not even a passive; it requires her to cast abilities. It's copping Loki's abilities (though he did that first, but that doesn't make it good design). It doesn't synergize with her kit at all, as it seems it could cause enemies players want to attack each other to stop. And it's functionality can already be found more reliably in the Pacifying Bolts augment.

 

New passive: Nyx has a 5% chance of causing enemies within 20 meters to downgrade or disarm alarms. In survival, this becomes a 50% chance for enemies to pick up life support for you (the small drops). In Interception, a 10% chance to hack a console for you. And in defense (and maybe Rescue), a 10% chance to make an enemy unable to attack the defense objective.

 

Oberon

Spoiler

Oberon's passive is only helpful for Grineer, only on places with Drahks or the sharks (I guess...). DE may have plans to add more wildlife, but right now they don't have it.

New passive: ranged enemies have a 7% chance to drop their weapon and attempt to honorably fight you in melee combat. This would not have a confusion animation like Mag's passive, but it has a higher chance of happening.

 

Vauban

Spoiler

His passive makes little thematic sense and is almost worthless for a 50 armor frame. My suggestion isn't passive, but I think it's okay anyway.

 

New ability: Vauban can hack security systems when they're not in alarm state to turn them against the enemy. This includes Void torrents, Corpus turrets, Arc Traps, Magnetic doors, and any security systems on locations now populated by Infested. That can be done on any console, and lasts 1 minute.

One last thing: please list passives under the "Abilities" tab in the Arsenal now, and on the market.

Let me know what you think.

Edited May 29, 2016 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Sajochi]

Passives are already listed under the abilities tab.

On Chroma, there seems to be an agreement already that he should get extra jumps because of Effigy's wings, and applies his current element while bullet gliding. 

The Nyx one seems overloaded. Maybe give her an increased evasion passive to help with survivability.

I made a suggestion for Mag that her ammo has a chance to restock when shot at, avoiding the damage of the rounds added to her ammo pool. 

Vauban's sounds really cool.

For Embrer, what if she gained energy and power strength from nearby enemies affected by fire procs instead of self damage procs. It would lose the energy gain under WoF for balance sake.

I'm not too sure what to say for the rest.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

36 minutes ago, CrazyCortex said:

Passives are already listed under the abilities tab.

On Chroma, there seems to be an agreement already that he should get extra jumps because of Effigy's wings, and applies his current element while bullet gliding. 

The Nyx one seems overloaded. Maybe give her an increased evasion passive to help with survivability.

I made a suggestion for Mag that her ammo has a chance to restock when shot at, avoiding the damage of the rounds added to her ammo pool. 

Vauban's sounds really cool.

For Embrer, what if she gained energy and power strength from nearby enemies affected by fire procs instead of self damage procs. It would lose the energy gain under WoF for balance sake.

I'm not too sure what to say for the rest.

If Chroma got the one you mentioned, I would give the one I suggested for him to Oberon (fits the knight theme).

Nyx's is kind of overloaded, but the idea is that it works for any mission type, not just ones where enemies arm consoles.

Thats an interesting one for Mag, although I'm not sure how many weapons can actually utilize it given ammo capacity in this game.

That's an interesting suggestion for Ember, although I might suggest overshields instead of energy; the latter is very difficult to balance IMO given how many other energy changes go.

Edited May 29, 2016 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Sajochi]

That's the magic of feedback. Overshield could work for Ember. She is a caster frame and would need a nice boost somewhere. 

For Mag, it would just fill her ammo pools, much like a mini mutation mod with a very low chance. Maybe a 5% chance of triggering in a 5m range.

[Burnthesteak87]

Most of them aren't that much interesting.

Instead, the Vauban's one would be really nice.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Archwizard]

• Chroma: Extend your wings, granting a third jump and increased glide time whenever Effigy isn't active.
  (This one is in addition to the energy swapping, rather than replacing it.)

• Ember: Ember gains an amount of energy generation and Power Strength for each enemy she has Ignited, up to a cap.

• Hydroid: Attacks will Soak enemies, amplifying the effects of some statuses against them.
  (Ignite becomes Blind, Chill becomes Freeze, Poison splashes and Electrocute increases critical damage.)

• Limbo: Chance to automatically displace attacks to the opposite side of the Rift, granting increased Evasion at all times.

• Mag: Increased Overshield cap and shield regeneration speed.

• Nyx: Chance on dealing direct damage to an enemy to disarm them.

• Oberon: Chance on blocking an attack to blind the attacker.

• Vauban: Replace traps you disable with your own for a brief period.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Archwizard

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

4 hours ago, Archwizard said:

• Chroma: Extend your wings, granting a third jump and increased glide time whenever Effigy isn't active.
  (This one is in addition to the energy swapping, rather than replacing it.)

• Ember: Ember gains an amount of energy generation and Power Strength for each enemy she has Ignited, up to a cap.

• Hydroid: Attacks will Soak enemies, amplifying the effects of some statuses against them.
  (Ignite becomes Blind, Chill becomes Freeze, Poison splashes and Electrocute increases critical damage.)

• Limbo: Chance to automatically displace attacks to the opposite side of the Rift, granting increased Evasion at all times.

• Mag: Increased Overshield cap and shield regeneration speed.

• Nyx: Chance on dealing direct damage to an enemy to disarm them.

• Oberon: Chance on blocking an attack to blind the attacker.

• Vauban: Replace traps you disable with your own for a brief period.

 

I like most of these. Your Hydroid one is definitely better than mine.

As I told @CrazyCortex, I'd rather just give overshields or something like it, rather than mess with energy too much.

I'm not crazy about Limbo's only because it seems much like a random version of a health buff. It's not bad, though.

I'm also not a fan of disarm Nyx, which I mentioned a little in the OP (my own suggestion has problems, too). Maybe enemies could have a chance of becoming rooted in place, falling, or falling asleep upon direct damage.

Chroma's and Oberon's are good. I don't know what Vauban's means exactly.

[Nyxxz]

Ember: Ember gains an amount of energy generation and Power Strength for each enemy she has Ignited, up to a cap.

 I've also thougt about a change like this, but you'd have to turn off WoF and reactivate it at max power str for WoF to benefit from it which is just really tideous and chees, changing the core mechanics of the ability is probably way too much of a hassle for one or a very  few frames to benefit from(currently)

Which is why my take on it is just be "lazy" and copy Ash's 50% duration and 25% damage but make it fire, obviously

Another option is to let fire procs stack for Ember, I personally think this could get out of hand and be too good

Make Fire status procs by Ember deal 100% more damage (since they don't stack, this won't be nearly as strong as some might fear)

 

Oberon simply needs a rework in general and a paladin like passive(one that is a LOT less S#&$ than the current one).

Vauban passive is a joke and the range is hilariously bad.

Nekros needing to be on top of enemies to receive a whooping 5 health is bad, buff the aura to be about 20 meters or MASSIVELY buff the HP you get per orb to at LEAST 25.

 

 

[(XBOX)KickassNinja14]

14 hours ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

New passive: Chroma will do 15% extra damage to enemies who damage him. Chroma is supposed to tank, and this encourages tanking. The 15% boost may be too high, but I think 10% at the least is still good

Vex Armor already does this

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

magically instantly

LOL nice choice of words

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

5%

so she is gonna do this once in a 40 minute long survival. 5% chance is worst than most arcanes you'll rarely ever see this happening

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

7%

same thing as mag

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)KickassNinja14 said:

Vex Armor already does this

 

LOL nice choice of words

 

so she is gonna do this once in a 40 minute long survival. 5% chance is worst than most arcanes you'll rarely ever see this happening

 

same thing as mag

 

On Chroma, fair. @Archwizard's suggestion is probably better.

As for 5% and 7%, that equals 1/20 and approximately 1/14 enemies, respectively. If you don't expect to run into 14 or 20 enemies you're not playing Warframe. This can't happen for every enemy or that would break the game.

[Nyxxz]

I'm sorry but most of these are just super gimmicky RNG and some(Vauban for example) are actually worse than what the have now

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

4 hours ago, Nyxxz said:

I'm sorry but most of these are just super gimmicky RNG and some(Vauban for example) are actually worse than what the have now

I don't see how 25 additional armor on a 50 armor frame is better than being able to CC enemies in front of doors, distract them with turrets, see them on the map due to cameras, and cause them to knock out security systems for you if you're in a vault or trying to stealth.

[Leonix13]

If your going to do the Oberon druid thing then give him a proper enhanced animal helper.

Oberon: Oberon's animal companion (Kat/Kubrow) has increased Radiation (Electric & Heat?) resistance, and deals extra Radiation damage (can proc status).

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

7 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

If your going to do the Oberon druid thing then give him a proper enhanced animal helper.

Oberon: Oberon's animal companion (Kat/Kubrow) has increased Radiation (Electric & Heat?) resistance, and deals extra Radiation damage (can proc status).

The only thing is, I don't want to make Oberon's feel like they must use Kubrows.

[Leonix13]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

The only thing is, I don't want to make Oberon's feel like they must use Kubrows.

Why? Excal makes you want to use certain swords. As it is Oberon is currently the best frame to take a Kubrow with since its easy for him  to keep it alive, and this is way better than the sometimes passive he has now.

This fits in both uniqueness and the nature focus.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Leonix13

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

4 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

Why? Excal makes you want to use certain swords. As it is Oberon is currently the best frame to take a Kubrow with since its easy for him  to keep it alive, and this is way better than the sometimes passive he has now.

This fits in both uniqueness and the nature focus.

I suppose it is better than the current passive. Honestly I'm not a fan of Excalibur's either, for that reason.

[Sajochi]

I'll have to agree. Oberon's passive should be companion centered, but I don't think he should be locked into Kubrows/Kavats. Maybe when he has Sentinals, they have increased radiation proc chance and an extra revive (stacks with regen mod), and Kubrows/Kavats get increased status resistance and passive health regen.

[Leonix13]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCortex said:

I'll have to agree. Oberon's passive should be companion centered, but I don't think he should be locked into Kubrows/Kavats. Maybe when he has Sentinals, they have increased radiation proc chance and an extra revive (stacks with regen mod), and Kubrows/Kavats get increased status resistance and passive health regen.

I had considered that idea too, but the problem is people will just take carrier and ignore it... Keep the nature idea, bite the bullet and give him an badass Kubrow. Its a little forced, but for the better imo.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Leonix13

[Skaleek]

20 hours ago, Archwizard said:

• Chroma: Extend your wings, granting a third jump and increased glide time whenever Effigy isn't active.
  (This one is in addition to the energy swapping, rather than replacing it.)

• Ember: Ember gains an amount of energy generation and Power Strength for each enemy she has Ignited, up to a cap.

• Hydroid: Attacks will Soak enemies, amplifying the effects of some statuses against them.
  (Ignite becomes Blind, Chill becomes Freeze, Poison splashes and Electrocute increases critical damage.)

• Limbo: Chance to automatically displace attacks to the opposite side of the Rift, granting increased Evasion at all times.

• Mag: Increased Overshield cap and shield regeneration speed.

• Nyx: Chance on dealing direct damage to an enemy to disarm them.

• Oberon: Chance on blocking an attack to blind the attacker.

• Vauban: Replace traps you disable with your own for a brief period.

The changes we want that will never happen, as always, Archwizard. Bravo for trying but you know how DE does, fire and forget. I had an idea for ember's which is very similar to yours. You gain a small % of all fire proc damage dealt returned as energy, encouraging a "world on fire" mentality. Also got a suggestion for Loki? Loki's wall cling is useless just because of the fact that no one wall clings.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Skaleek

[Brozenwall]

I think that Loki is one of the strongest and more usable Frames in game. I don't mind the 10X Wall cling, but he needs something more.

Loki deal's +100% damage from stealth + Wall-Lash time x10.

I also like this

20 hours ago, Archwizard said:

• Chroma: Extend your wings, granting a third jump and increased glide time whenever Effigy isn't active.
  (This one is in addition to the energy swapping, rather than replacing it.)

• Ember: Ember gains an amount of energy generation and Power Strength for each enemy she has Ignited, up to a cap.

• Mag: Increased Overshield cap and shield regeneration speed.

 

[Nyxxz]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

I don't see how 25 additional armor on a 50 armor frame is better than being able to CC enemies in front of doors, distract them with turrets, see them on the map due to cameras, and cause them to knock out security systems for you if you're in a vault or trying to stealth.

There are mods that allow you to see things on the map, and "it's better than a small armor bonus if you're doing this one type of thing"  

If you need to stealth in a mission there's Loki which is tailored for this kind of stuff, even if Vauban did all that he'd be inferior to Loki in this regard and have no bonus outside of this gimmick so yeah, I'd rather have that 50-75 armor over this any day

[o.0-]

Still favor these ideas, sharing here:

• Banshee: Keening Wail - Enemies affected by Banshee's abilities are proc'd with Weaken.
• Chroma: Primal Surge - Elemental Bullet Jump, matches chosen Element.
• Hydroid: Pilferer - Hydroid steals a small fraction of health from foes struck by his abilities.
• Limbo: Master of the Rift - Limbo's Shield regen, attack speed, crit chance and movement speed is increased in the Rift Plane.
• Loki: Trickster's Intuition - Can see enemy LOS.
• Mag: Magnetic Attraction - Wall cling
• Nekros: Soul Curse - Death gives health near Nekros
• Nova: Quantum Entanglement - Stagger or Knockdown affects enemies proc'ing those effects
• Nyx: Hallucinating Sight - Evasion effect, reduces enemy accuracy (like Agility Drift)
• Oberon: One with Nature - When standing still, Oberon gains scaling armor (increases or decreases with enemy level)
• Vauban: Siege Breaker - Disables enemy traps around Vauban

[Nyxxz]

8 minutes ago, Brozenwall said:

I think that Loki is one of the strongest and more usable Frames in game. I don't mind the 10X Wall cling, but he needs something more.

Loki deal's +100% damage from stealth + Wall-Lash time x10.

I also like this

 

"Loki deals 100% more damage 99.5% of the time" 

This is beyond overpowered and overshadows every oher passive in the game by a longshot, It's better than all the other passives combined.

While Loki's passive is pretty lame a 100% damage boost would just take unfair to a whole new level

[Rhaenxys]

Limbo current passive is pretty decent, dunno why someone will want a change.

[Trowicia]

On 5/29/2016 at 11:03 AM, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

Ember

  Hide contents

Ember's current passive requires her to get hit, which IMO isn't a great passive for a squishy frame. Moreover, it's to get hit with a heat proc--which means either a fire hazard, or one of the high DPS enemies like Anti Moas or Scorches. It's also not even possible to do for many mission types.

New passive: Enemies "panicked" (the animation where they wave their hands around and don't do anything after getting heat proc'd) from any source are open to finishers from Ember. This fits Ember's theme, but is more than just a bonus to her abilities as it can happen from any source.

 

 

Dude... HELL, YES.
Right now, my Ember's passive makes absolutely no sense since there is no real compromise here -- it's pretty mediocre to stand in a patch of lingering fire (let alone FIND fire anywhere outside of crossfire missions) while her teammates are all ahead doing most of the work. She's also not tanky enough to sustain damage from high DPS enemies so really the window for opportunity is extremely narrow.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Trowicia