Update 18.13 Passives Feedback

[OzoneSlayer]

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

 

Meanwhile, Ash gets his AoE damage output and late-game potential boosted out of nowhere, because he had none.

You said late game. Damage falls off, so a passive that gives damage falls off as well, so late game his passive gives no benefit. The only reliable way to kill late game with ash is CL daggers and there are so many frames that do it better than him. I wish he got something better and not a niche version of saryn's passive.

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, OzoneSlayer said:

You said late game. Damage falls off, so a passive that gives damage falls off as well, so late game his passive gives no benefit. The only reliable way to kill late game with ash is CL daggers and there are so many frames that do it better than him. I wish he got something better and not a niche version of saryn's passive.

What is "late game?"  BS killed effortlessly in Sortie 3s before this change; now its damage has been boosted by 55% needlessly.  Ash's passive choice is a real headscratcher for me.

[Dragazer]

4 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Meanwhile, Ash gets his AoE damage output and late-game potential boosted out of nowhere, because he had none.

Nothing wrong with that, it just reinforces the idea that Ash's role is meant to deal damage effectively

BTW, I think it's a good idea to play the frame before we leave our feedback:

 

 

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

What is "late game?"  BS killed effortlessly in Sortie 3s before this change; now its damage has been boosted by 55% needlessly.  Ash's passive choice is a real headscratcher for me.

You have to consider the fact that bleed damage was the only damage that was boosted. Bleed procs take 10 seconds to get the full damage effect, factor in that Ash can only target 18 enemies per cast and you'll see that it isn't that great for dealing with big crowds quickly. Furthermore, we have Ancient healers which negate bleed procs for their allies, cutting off most of Ash's damage, Ancient Disruptors, which reduce all power damage by 90%, and Eximi units which have massive damage reduction that even reduces finisher damage.

Don't forget that weapon damage slash procs are boosted as well not just ability damage which is also a nice bonus.

Ash's passive makes perfect sense to me, his kit trades the lack of any sort of cc and team utility for massive damage, which his passive reflects on.  

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dragazer

[OzoneSlayer]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

What is "late game?

You used that term first. Why would you use a term you don't have a general consensus on?

[Terrornaut]

I was so excited once I heard the passives were in (mainly for Ember), but once I saw what it was, I internally facepalmed...hard.

 

I've suggested a few things, loudly, for Ember. One of them was energy recovery when she damages ignited units.

Let me get right to it:

This passive is not good. It is not well thought out. I can understand wanting to keep the high-risk/reward concept for Ember going, but this is either no risk and easy reward or absolutely lethal risk for little reward. Napalms will kill Ember dead if she gets hit. You don't want to get hit. I've never advocated for the return of overheat but if you're going to give us a completely counter-intuitive passive, why not give some way go safely trigger it, even at the cost of a smaller reward.

 

Suggestions:

1. Receive 10 energy per tick when on fire. Ember has 80% damage reduction vs heat damage and lethal damage from fire eats energy ala quick thinking. What doesn't kill her will now actually make her stronger.

2. Ember activates energy regen when meleeing or touching an ignited enemy. Energy regen is 2 per hit, max of 6 per second. 25% power strength boost. Risky, but easily rewarding.

3. When Ember kills an enemy that had an active heat proc, she receives 10 energy for 3 seconds. Extra kills refresh this duration. (Though it would be so satisfying, albeit crazy, if it just stacked.) Always relevant 

4. Taking fire damage that would be lethal is negated and Ember receives 25 energy and a power boost of a percentage equal to the lethal damage that exceeded Embers health. This boost lasts until the next ability cast (includes a WOF tick) by Ember. Rare to use, but when it does, you charge ember up to honestly nuke something.

5. Any lethal heat damage is negated and causes Ember to restore 5 energy per second, up to 5 seconds, and receive a 100% power strength boost that lasts for one ability use. In most people's hands, this would be somewhat noticeable, but in people's hands who actually know how to build and play Ember at high levels, it would be devastating 

6. Receiving heat damage causes Ember to negate all fire damage for 2 seconds and increases Embers movement speed by 25% for 3 seconds. This also triggers an onscreen prompt around the corners of the screen. This is dangerous but it helps her risky gameplay style.

7. Bullet jumping near ignited enemies restores 5 energy per enemy, triggerable once per enemy every 12 seconds (that's two fire ticks if I remember right, and I may not).

8. Bullet jumping near ignited enemies (once per enemy) gives a stacking buff that increases power strength by 5%. This buff expires after the next ability used.  You'll see some interesting behavior and toying with energy that will mix well with Ember's extreme need to be mobile.

9. Triggering a heat proc with a power or melee attack on an enemy already suffering a heat condition causes nearby enemies within 4m to receive that heat proc. Wildfire. Also, this is a almost a bandaid for the fact that higher damage price do not override lower one. This is lethal and pure fun.

10. Ember receives a 3% power strength boost for every ignited enemy within 6m. Subtle, but potentially... awesome.

 

10 different ideas for an Ember passive. Some are stronger than others, some are more situational than others, while some are more reliable. Each, I think, is something that would excite us few Ember players out there. Useful and fun seems like a good aim for passives, or any ability really.  Please, give these consideration.

[Epsik-kun]

2 hours ago, Dragazer said:

BTW, I think it's a good idea to play the frame before we leave our feedback:

Something tells me, I don't have to play the frame, to be able to compare direct damage increase in the finisher damage the frame has easy access to, and three literal centimeters of revival range.

[Dragazer]

9 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Something tells me, I don't have to play the frame, to be able to compare direct damage increase in the finisher damage the frame has easy access to, and three literal centimeters of revival range.

I can't speak for Trinity, but in Ash's case, although it might look amazing on paper, when put to practical use, there are a lot of drawbacks which I mentioned in my previous post, which is why its good idea to actually use the frame before making judgements. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dragazer

[Epsik-kun]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

I can't speak for Trinity, but in Ash's case, although it might look amazing on paper, when put to practical use, there are a lot of drawbacks which I mentioned in my previous post, which is why its good idea to actually use the frame before making judgements. 

You know, the fact that the passive doesn't win the game for you doesn't make it any less powerful.

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

2 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

I was so excited once I heard the passives were in (mainly for Ember), but once I saw what it was, I internally facepalmed...hard.

 

I've suggested a few things, loudly, for Ember. One of them was energy recovery when she damages ignited units.

Let me get right to it:

This passive is not good. It is not well thought out. I can understand wanting to keep the high-risk/reward concept for Ember going, but this is either no risk and easy reward or absolutely lethal risk for little reward. Napalms will kill Ember dead if she gets hit. You don't want to get hit. I've never advocated for the return of overheat but if you're going to give us a completely counter-intuitive passive, why not give some way go safely trigger it, even at the cost of a smaller reward.

 

Suggestions:

1. Receive 10 energy per tick when on fire. Ember has 80% damage reduction vs heat damage and lethal damage from fire eats energy ala quick thinking. What doesn't kill her will now actually make her stronger.

2. Ember activates energy regen when meleeing or touching an ignited enemy. Energy regen is 2 per hit, max of 6 per second. 25% power strength boost. Risky, but easily rewarding.

3. When Ember kills an enemy that had an active heat proc, she receives 10 energy for 3 seconds. Extra kills refresh this duration. (Though it would be so satisfying, albeit crazy, if it just stacked.) Always relevant 

4. Taking fire damage that would be lethal is negated and Ember receives 25 energy and a power boost of a percentage equal to the lethal damage that exceeded Embers health. This boost lasts until the next ability cast (includes a WOF tick) by Ember. Rare to use, but when it does, you charge ember up to honestly nuke something.

5. Any lethal heat damage is negated and causes Ember to restore 5 energy per second, up to 5 seconds, and receive a 100% power strength boost that lasts for one ability use. In most people's hands, this would be somewhat noticeable, but in people's hands who actually know how to build and play Ember at high levels, it would be devastating 

6. Receiving heat damage causes Ember to negate all fire damage for 2 seconds and increases Embers movement speed by 25% for 3 seconds. This also triggers an onscreen prompt around the corners of the screen. This is dangerous but it helps her risky gameplay style.

7. Bullet jumping near ignited enemies restores 5 energy per enemy, triggerable once per enemy every 12 seconds (that's two fire ticks if I remember right, and I may not).

8. Bullet jumping near ignited enemies (once per enemy) gives a stacking buff that increases power strength by 5%. This buff expires after the next ability used.  You'll see some interesting behavior and toying with energy that will mix well with Ember's extreme need to be mobile.

9. Triggering a heat proc with a power or melee attack on an enemy already suffering a heat condition causes nearby enemies within 4m to receive that heat proc. Wildfire. Also, this is a almost a bandaid for the fact that higher damage price do not override lower one. This is lethal and pure fun.

10. Ember receives a 3% power strength boost for every ignited enemy within 6m. Subtle, but potentially... awesome.

 

10 different ideas for an Ember passive. Some are stronger than others, some are more situational than others, while some are more reliable. Each, I think, is something that would excite us few Ember players out there. Useful and fun seems like a good aim for passives, or any ability really.  Please, give these consideration.

I'm on console, I haven't played with any of the passives yet, with that said I'm well aware I don't have experience on the upcoming passives, especially not enough to pass judgement.

But this, just on Ember alone, any of your suggested ideas far outshine what's coming. I won't deny I've run through fire hazards, but having a passive that is a variant of, "punch yourself for power" is just gonna get a lot of players killed just trying to witness a new feature, then actively avoiding it forever.

You've got my vote.  I'd be happy if any of your passive ideas were added.

[Dojutrek]

As a Dedicated Vauban player and after playing with his new Passive, I have to say that the armor given and the range on the passive is quite poor. The current 20 meter range and 25% increased armor for himself when allies are nearby is not currently adequate nor useful in the current state of the game. If this passive was meant to reinforce his rather weak statistics in the heat of combat during team play, it has actually not done what it was designed to do and instead lacks any sort of improvement to his overall survival or utility in most, if not all, team compositions.

While working within the confines of the currently designed passive, if the range was increased to the "Affinity Range" of 50 Meters and, instead of a percentage, a flat additive armor improvement was given (ex. ~+50 to 75 per player) to himself then he might have enough to survive into higher level content.

A nice optional addition could be an inclusion that other frames besides Vauban gain increased armor (possibly something additive or a percentage off of his current armor total) while within 25 meters, thus allowing Vauban to be more useful in team compositions and reinforce the already implemented idea of staying together. There is a potential issue regarding this though within the Trials (Raid content), considering that up to 8 players can take part in them, the potential of overlapping the team buff could be quite destabilizing to the balance.

In regards to solo play, I feel that he should get a separate Solo Passive that doesn't conflict with his team based passive. Maybe a spin on the passive, like a flat improved bonus to armor when alone or solo would provide that needed reprieve. That way Solo players can stand on their own in Solo play, while still being useful in team compositions.

This is just my two cents about the current state of Vauban and my current views of improving is already implemented passive.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dojutrek

[Dragazer]

16 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

You know, the fact that the passive doesn't win the game for you doesn't make it any less powerful.

I agree that its an effective passive, but it is not that powerful to warrant any changes considering the fact that 1 faction (Infested) can completely nullify its effects. Like I said before its a nice boost on paper, but in practice there are plenty of drawbacks keeping it from being too powerful.  

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dragazer

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, Dragazer said:

I agree that its an effective passive, but it is not that powerful to warrant any changes considering the fact that 1 faction (Infested) can completely nullify its effects. 

You know, if we are talking about "endgame", there's only one faction - Grineer.

[Dragazer]

6 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

You know, if we are talking about "endgame", there's only one faction - Grineer.

What about void missions with ancient healers? or sortie infestation missions? or corpus with nullifiers, combas, bursa, and scrambus enemies?

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dragazer

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, Dragazer said:

What about void missions with ancient healers? or sortie infestation missions?

Please, I soloed that April 1st "Ammo Drum" alert with a wrong build and a wrong focus. You hit the closest Bombard to you, if he refuses to die, you find the healer, kill him under a second and resume hitting the Bombard. Making a universal build equals making a build against Grineer. Above certain level, having your whole loadout focused on killing grineer will still beat other factions faster than it would beat the actual grineer. And that level isn't even "that" high. It's about level 60 maximum.

The only single threat on a Sortie Infestation is the Juggernaut, and even that thing got nerfed to level 80 max.

[Dragazer]

48 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Please, I soloed that April 1st "Ammo Drum" alert with a wrong build and a wrong focus. You hit the closest Bombard to you, if he refuses to die, you find the healer, kill him under a second and resume hitting the Bombard. Making a universal build equals making a build against Grineer. Above certain level, having your whole loadout focused on killing grineer will still beat other factions faster than it would beat the actual grineer. And that level isn't even "that" high. It's about level 60 maximum.

The only single threat on a Sortie Infestation is the Juggernaut, and even that thing got nerfed to level 80 max.

Sure good job, but have you tried those missions as an Ash?

If you wanna use in mission examples, you better have at least played the frame in that mission.

That strategy would be nice, if it wasn't for the fact that their are usually multiple ancients in a crowd, couple that with nullifiers, eximi, and shield drones and bombards with heat seaking missiles.

Why are we even having this discussion? You claim a passive is powerful, but you've only looked at the benefits on paper and never in practical use.

What good is this feedback if you never even touched the frame? 

Please, go play the frame in all situations before posting your thoughts on it.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dragazer

[Navarc]

RNG isn't very popular as you already know. Basing passives on RNG instead of skill or a constant thing that works in all tilesets is just not good for this game.
Please reconsider various of these.

Example, Hydroid has low speed, low armour, low shields & low health. He needs something to survive better - you can't give him a passive to have 50% to activate when exposing yourself for several seconds in melee-range of an enemy. My suggestion.
Oberon.. He works on 3 planets I can think of. That's less than half of the game. As of right now, it's not acceptable until all tilesets in the game have wildlife and even then, it doesn't deal with the problems he has! My suggestion.

[Epsik-kun]

7 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Sure good job, but have you tried those missions as an Ash?

Do you want me to solo like 100 minutes of T4S with an unranked Ash built around his passive? Or I can solo some sortie Infestation with that Ash - for that I won't even need Naramon. Which one do you prefer?

[OzoneSlayer]

1 minute ago, Epsik-kun said:

Do you want me to solo like 100 minutes of T4S with an unranked Ash built around his passive? Or I can solo some sortie Infestation with that Ash - for that I won't even need Naramon. Which one do you prefer?

Any frame can use naramon. Using a broken mechanic doesn't prove anything

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, OzoneSlayer said:

Any frame can use naramon. Using a broken mechanic doesn't prove anything

Buzzwords. I've told I won't need Naramon for the sortie though.

[OzoneSlayer]

Just now, Epsik-kun said:

Buzzwords. I've told I won't need Naramon for the sortie though.

You implied you would use it for t4 survival

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, OzoneSlayer said:

You implied you would use it for t4 survival

Of course, how else would I avoid being one-shotted by hitscan weapons? I ain't no God to do that.

Also, Ash is one of the few frames, who has their own invisibility - the very same broken mechanics. It will require a proper build though, and only thing I have is unranked Ash with 32 modspace.

[Dragazer]

20 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Do you want me to solo like 100 minutes of T4S with an unranked Ash built around his passive? Or I can solo some sortie Infestation with that Ash - for that I won't even need Naramon. Which one do you prefer?

Both honestly, if it gets you to play the frame before making any more ignorant statements about frames you haven't played. I never said Ash was bad at high level endgame or it was totally impossible, but that his abilities and passive certainly do not make them a cakewalk due to a multitude of factors such as the enemy mechanics I previously mentioned. Naramon can be effectively used by any frame as long as you have a decent crit weapon so I don't know why you brought that up.     

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dragazer

[RealPandemonium]

On 6/6/2016 at 2:55 PM, Dragazer said:

You have to consider the fact that bleed damage was the only damage that was boosted. Bleed procs take 10 seconds to get the full damage effect, factor in that Ash can only target 18 enemies per cast and you'll see that it isn't that great for dealing with big crowds quickly. Furthermore, we have Ancient healers which negate bleed procs for their allies, cutting off most of Ash's damage, Ancient Disruptors, which reduce all power damage by 90%, and Eximi units which have massive damage reduction that even reduces finisher damage.

Don't forget that weapon damage slash procs are boosted as well not just ability damage which is also a nice bonus.

Ash's passive makes perfect sense to me, his kit trades the lack of any sort of cc and team utility for massive damage, which his passive reflects on.  

Slash procs take 6 seconds to apply their full DoT; this is increased to 9 with Ash's passive (he gets extra ticks.)  The first tick of any status DoT is applied instantly along with the damage instance that causes it.  

Blade Storm's target limit and time-to-execute are commonly cited as downsides vs radial/one-instant powers, but its base damage is so much higher and its ensuing DoT so powerful that these downsides are more than worth it, especially against high level Grineer (though its performance against Infested [with the right countermeasures to auras] and Corpus does not slouch as levels climb.)  The clones and using a fast melee weapon make the animation practically instant anyway, creating a mass-killing nuke with little effective downside and clearly stronger than almost all alternatives.  

Ancient auras can be deactivated with Radiation procs (preferably delivered in AOE via Ignis, Sequence procs, allied Oberons casting Reckoning, etc,) Chaos, Naramon active, and any other effect that turns enemies against each other.  Disruptors retain their effect because they apply it to themselves innately, so ensuring that you can kill Disruptors with a non-BS method (conventional weapon attacks or via Teleport finishers) allows you to avoid getting stuck hitting them when they are the last target in range (though this isn't a terrible outcome if you are not needed elsewhere and the damage will mount up to kill them anyway.)  Same goes for Exiumus.  

Weapon-inflicted Slash procs are also boosted, but giving an armor bandaid boost to a frame that already has a super-powerful armor bandaid built into his kit (which is also boosted) makes little sense except in a low-energy environment (aka a couple of sortie constraints and nowhere else.)

Ash's passive is just a straight buff with no new gameplay interactions or new functionality for Ash, and also happens to buff something that already super-powerful in the first place and has been repeatedly buffed over the past few years despite that.  

[Dragazer]

8 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Slash procs take 6 seconds to apply their full DoT; this is increased to 9 with Ash's passive (he gets extra ticks.)  The first tick of any status DoT is applied instantly along with the damage instance that causes it.  

Blade Storm's target limit and time-to-execute are commonly cited as downsides vs radial/one-instant powers, but its base damage is so much higher and its ensuing DoT so powerful that these downsides are more than worth it, especially against high level Grineer (though its performance against Infested [with the right countermeasures to auras] and Corpus does not slouch as levels climb.)  The clones and using a fast melee weapon make the animation practically instant anyway, creating a mass-killing nuke with little effective downside and clearly stronger than almost all alternatives.  

Ancient auras can be deactivated with Radiation procs (preferably delivered in AOE via Ignis, Sequence procs, allied Oberons casting Reckoning, etc,) Chaos, Naramon active, and any other effect that turns enemies against each other.  Disruptors retain their effect because they apply it to themselves innately, so ensuring that you can kill Disruptors with a non-BS method (conventional weapon attacks or via Teleport finishers) allows you to avoid getting stuck hitting them when they are the last target in range (though this isn't a terrible outcome if you are not needed elsewhere and the damage will mount up to kill them anyway.)  Same goes for Exiumus.  

Weapon-inflicted Slash procs are also boosted, but giving an armor bandaid boost to a frame that already has a super-powerful armor bandaid built into his kit (which is also boosted) makes little sense except in a low-energy environment (aka a couple of sortie constraints and nowhere else.)

Ash's passive is just a straight buff with no new gameplay interactions or new functionality for Ash, and also happens to buff something that already super-powerful in the first place and has been repeatedly buffed over the past few years despite that.  

I think we are making quite an over exaggeration here. Your melee weapon does not determine your Blade Storm attack speed, only the mods fury, spoiled strike and quickening affect it. Each animation takes an average 2 seconds to complete per enemy, assuming we are at the target limit of 18, that means it'll at the least take 12 seconds to finish the cast. This is assuming the targets are killed off by the intial damage of ability which most of the time doesn't happen in high levels. Majority of Blade Storm's damage comes from slash procs a DoT, so I fail to see how it's exactly "practically instant". Along with an 18 target limit I also fail to see where the "mass-killing" is at.

While there are counter measures for the downsides I mentioned, it just goes to show Blade Storm isn't just a press 4 and forget. You need to actively assess your enemies and take out priority targets before ulting, to ensure you are using the ability in optimal conditions. Resorting to specific setups or the other warframe abilites of your teammates to make the ability usable in those situations reinforces the idea that the downsides are in fact apparent for the ability.

Once again I don't see a problem with the passive. They don't need to have overly complicated mechanics or be extremely conditional: 

Excalibur: Straight up numbers buff when using swords

Loki: Straight up numbers buff to his wall latch duration

Trinity: Straight up numbers buff to her revive speed and distance

Mesa: Numbers buff again to reload speed and fire rate for secondaries.

Saryn: Similar straight up numbers boost too, but for all proc durations

Sometimes simplicity is best.  

Edited June 8, 2016 by Dragazer

[Epsik-kun]

Now I have 200gb worth of Ash soloing survival, great.

15 hours ago, Dragazer said:

if it gets you to play the frame before making any more ignorant statements about frames you haven't played

Oh boy, how wrong I was! Now after I soloed 100 minutes of T4S with Ash, popping Naramon after 30 minutes in (I died on 22 minutes for the first time) my opinion has become pretty much opposite!

Well, honestly, what did you expect? I get, that you are struggling on Infestation Sortie. Maybe less, but I still get, that you are struggling on it with Ash, which is kinda stupid, but I can understand that - some people are genuinely bad at video games - I bet you have something else working for you. What I don't get is why do you argue with someone who clearly has much more experience about so-called "end game", what works there, what doesn't, and how is that all related to Ash's passive?

It was exactly as I said - Ash can do a bit over 100 minutes of T4S/T3S by only using Naramon, proper melee and his passive. For a reference, other frames who don't have that passive will have their damage fall-off around 60~70 minutes in. That passive allows Ash to kill level 200 enemies at the same speed he would've dealt with enemies of level 100. Think about it a bit, and tell me, how's it "nothing special"?

For a further reference:

10 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Loki: Straight up numbers buff to his wall latch duration

It's a gimmick. It won't make your frame any stronger. It has no purpose other than having fun, as you can stay on a wall indefinitely even without that passive. However, I have nothing against such passives, as gimmicks are fun.

For instance, Valkyr's passive is pretty similar in a sense, that you can always simply slide on a heavy landing, but having that little gimmick is nice.

10 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Trinity: Straight up numbers buff to her revive speed and distance

Three literal centimeters - that's how much of a "buff" she received. I would've understood if she became able to revive stuff from across the map - that could've been fun, but right now her passive is worthless.

10 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Excalibur

Just so you know, Excalibur's passive provides him with a whopping 5% DPS increase at best, as his passive is additive, not multiplicative. You literally can't feel or see the difference this passive provides, unless you were to write down the numbers and count the frames (I ain't even sure about that one).

 

And now let me state what you seem to understand yourself:

10 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Majority of Blade Storm's damage comes from slash procs a DoT

And now let's remember what his passive does. What was that?

On 5/31/2016 at 5:35 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

Ash: Bleed Procs dealt by Ash from any source are 25% deadlier and last 50% longer.

Ah yeah, that. So, not only "Majority of Blade Storm's damage" just received a straight buff amounting to direct 25% DPS increase, overall damage have increased even more, given Ash quite easily makes use of extra duration on bleed. And it doesn't affects only Blade Storm, which was definitely an underwhelming ability and surely required a buff, no - it also affects all weapons, some of which can be fully built around bleed proc. Coincidentally, these weapons are among some of the most effective ones during the end-game content.

 

You might be surprised, but if you take Ash's passive and give it to, say, Excalibur - it will have stronger effect than his current one by a substantial amount, and that's given Excalibur's EBlade has 10% status chance and the frame itself has no special means of landing a bleed proc.

 

I don't actually care about Ash himself that much, I don't even play him. What bothers me, however, is that his "plain" passive is arguably one of the strongest in the game, if not the strongest, and it makes vast majority of other frame's passives look like useless garbage. And the frame that received that passive by no means needed a buff.

I honestly don't want that passive to be nerfed, however I sure want for other passives not to look like a complete trash in comparison - boy those 3cm for Trin, that was so generous of you, DE!

 

With that, I have written and explained literally everything about what's not right with the passive Ash has received. Any further replies in the genre of "it isn't that good" would be treated like cases of genuine idiocy and ignored.

 

>ignorant statements

kek

Edited June 8, 2016 by Epsik-kun