Valkyr Hysteria Update 18.13

[BL00DYG0DD]

31 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Steel Fiber, Vitality. 

Problem solved. 

not really helpfull VS high lvl enemies lol, i did say in a T4 survival over 2hr solo valkyr

Edited June 6, 2016 by BL00DYG0DD

[Kinetos]

5 minutes ago, BL00DYG0DD said:

not really helpfull VS high lvl enemies lol, i did say in a T4 survival over 2hr solo valkyr

You keep saying 350 hp. Obviously you aren't using these mods at all, and 350 is higher than the average 300. She has hardly any shield, but no one wants shields on her. Armor, hp, Rage, lifestrike/hysteria. 

You aren't *supposed* to actually go super far into endless missions, so if enemies are oneshotting you with over a thousand armor and over a thousand hp, it's time to bug out or accept any risk for staying later than the game is balanced around. 

Instead of grieving for her nerf, maybe make suggestions for making paralysis a better team support ability or something. 

[DaftMeat]

18 minutes ago, BL00DYG0DD said:

so your saying from 0.77 energy cost to a 6 energy cost for second its not noticeable? in the other hand its not salt i was just stating my point of view because im still playing her a lot

No, because I rarely play entire sessions running Hysteria constantly. I use it as a stop-gap measure to prevent myself from dying, then turn it off when I have health back and reach a safe point.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Eternal war build narmon focus school war with tempo royal bloodrush body count build and hysteria is no longer needed.... I almost never uses hysteria since that combo came out even before that only used to heal I like that combo better than hysterias.  This set up even nulifers mean nothing since they can't dispel shadow step.

 

 That being said it's likely only a matter of time before that gets nerfed as well.

[Vohim]

heres how we have to look at things :

 

did hysteria need a nerf ?  yes 

did Valkyr perform on equal footing to other frames without her invincibility? No

and there's the problem 

 

the problem with Valkyr isnt  Hysteria invulnerability but rather Hysteria reducing Valkyr to single target  damage and even then reducing Valkyr's gameplay to Slide attacks because the  Hysteria slide attack deals ungodly damage , seriously  it 1-2 shots even  lvl 100 sortie  Hyenas , also i believe the way hysteria should work is that it started scaling in energy consumption based on the aura the bigger the aura the more energy drained encouraging killin g as much as possible to keep the aura small  and maybe add some for of melee range extension  give valkyr wider  cleaving slashes

then theres rip line  being flat out Useless asides from a  mobility skill

and paralysis being flat out useless even with the augment because it doesnt Paralyze enemies that are already performing actions and sometimes even when you knock or paralyze enemies they still activate their huge AoE flame explosion as if they had done the stomp attack

 

and against corpus Valkyr is flat out useless thanks to nullifiers 

[HeelSouls]

A skilled player with the right build is still capable of soloing extremely long survival missions so I don't see the problem with valkyr. She's still very strong just not godly like she was. Honestly you complain about nullifiers but they affect all war frames negatively and valkyr even has a mod dedicated to making this easier to deal with, while remaining unkillable (primed reach)....   

Edited June 6, 2016 by CephalonSimaris

[apo86]

What kind of build did you use to get from 0.77/s to 6/s? o.O

For me it caps out at 0.93/s currently. Yeah I probably can't run 2h survivals with that. But then again, I don't actually want that because I get bored latest after an hour. And considering literally everything DE has done since I've been here, 2h survivals don't seem to be the intended way to play.

[Vohim]

8 minutes ago, CephalonSimaris said:

A skilled player with the right build is still capable of soloing extremely long survival missions so I don't see the problem with valkyr. She's still very strong just not godly like she was. Honestly you complain about nullifiers but they affect all war frames negatively and valkyr even has a mod dedicated to making this easier to deal with, while remaining unkillable (primed reach)....   

well we're talking Valkyr's kit 

 

Primed reach  applies to all frames and even then it  is mostly used in Orthos prime basically , so by yoru argument you're saying Valkyr's abilities should be punished for a mod everyone else can use?

 

What about those people who could Not get the Primed reach mod how  would you justify nullifiers to them  in a melee warframe?

Edited June 6, 2016 by Retepzednem

[ravend]

i dont mind almost all of the changes, its the change to aura that im not liking. in the higher lvls this puts her at an extreme disadvantage for her ult. Now granted i have only tested this on Lvl 1 grineer. i havent had the chance or the stomach to try this on lvl 100 mobs, but the theory is sound. if it takes acouple of hits to kill a normal mob and 10 or so hit to take down say a heavy gunner. that means in the time it takes to kill 1 lvl 100 heavy gunner your aura has grown vastly beyond what you would get for killing a regular mod. unless someone can correct me on this and has tested it i would love to hear the results.

[Rhaenxys]

29 minutes ago, ravend said:

i dont mind almost all of the changes, its the change to aura that im not liking. in the higher lvls this puts her at an extreme disadvantage for her ult. Now granted i have only tested this on Lvl 1 grineer. i havent had the chance or the stomach to try this on lvl 100 mobs, but the theory is sound. if it takes acouple of hits to kill a normal mob and 10 or so hit to take down say a heavy gunner. that means in the time it takes to kill 1 lvl 100 heavy gunner your aura has grown vastly beyond what you would get for killing a regular mod. unless someone can correct me on this and has tested it i would love to hear the results.

I notice that problem too in a interception sortie against corpus with increased shields, with about 170 power strength im able to take out reinforced corpus units, however the amount it takes to kill only one target is enough for my aura to reach +4-5 more meters just to get -1 meter per kill...

It was easier with prolonged paralysis because hysteria ground finishers deal 1600% bonus damage, however that requires less duration (you cant use narrow minded) and therefore more energy drain per second (duration affects channeling abilities drain per second).

It shouldnt be a problem if blood rush and body count affect hysteria somehow...

[Kaisty]

1 hour ago, ravend said:

i dont mind almost all of the changes, its the change to aura that im not liking. in the higher lvls this puts her at an extreme disadvantage for her ult. Now granted i have only tested this on Lvl 1 grineer. i havent had the chance or the stomach to try this on lvl 100 mobs, but the theory is sound. if it takes acouple of hits to kill a normal mob and 10 or so hit to take down say a heavy gunner. that means in the time it takes to kill 1 lvl 100 heavy gunner your aura has grown vastly beyond what you would get for killing a regular mod. unless someone can correct me on this and has tested it i would love to hear the results.

DE should change the aura so that it not only takes into account for number of enemies killed, but the levels of the enemies killed. If enemy levels are less than Valkyr's level plus 10 (or whatever is manageable for a Valkyr player to drop multiple bodies in a short time), then the aura should drop for the number of kills. If the enemy levels are high to the point that it takes more than a few strong attacks to kill an enemy, then it should count the levels of the enemy divided by two.

E.G. If Valkyr kills 50 level 1 enemies = killing one level 100 enemy.

[BL00DYG0DD]

7 hours ago, CephalonSimaris said:

A skilled player with the right build is still capable of soloing extremely long survival missions so I don't see the problem with valkyr. She's still very strong just not godly like she was. Honestly you complain about nullifiers but they affect all war frames negatively and valkyr even has a mod dedicated to making this easier to deal with, while remaining unkillable (primed reach)....   

yea u right i still good for soloing long runs i'm just saying that she was just made for that just that fun because in a team she can give anything to help a team so she was jsut a fun warframe to solo a mission now they made it more challenging but honestly you cant stay as long as you did before which its not fun anymore

[BL00DYG0DD]

5 hours ago, Kaisty said:

DE should change the aura so that it not only takes into account for number of enemies killed, but the levels of the enemies killed. If enemy levels are less than Valkyr's level plus 10 (or whatever is manageable for a Valkyr player to drop multiple bodies in a short time), then the aura should drop for the number of kills. If the enemy levels are high to the point that it takes more than a few strong attacks to kill an enemy, then it should count the levels of the enemy divided by two.

E.G. If Valkyr kills 50 level 1 enemies = killing one level 100 enemy.

agreed that will make more sense but like i said before  just saying that she was just made for that just that fun because in a team she can give anything to help a team so she was just a fun warframe to solo a mission now they made it more challenging but honestly you cant stay as long as you did before which its not fun anymore you know because staying more than 2hr in a mission its just for fun rewards are not going to get any better, but the challenge was fun now you cant stay endless in a mission specially since you cant be on hysteria the all time high lvl enemies you cant kill them so easy or you dont even do damage anymore so you start losing life support which it comes down that your force to leave

[BL00DYG0DD]

7 hours ago, ravend said:

i dont mind almost all of the changes, its the change to aura that im not liking. in the higher lvls this puts her at an extreme disadvantage for her ult. Now granted i have only tested this on Lvl 1 grineer. i havent had the chance or the stomach to try this on lvl 100 mobs, but the theory is sound. if it takes acouple of hits to kill a normal mob and 10 or so hit to take down say a heavy gunner. that means in the time it takes to kill 1 lvl 100 heavy gunner your aura has grown vastly beyond what you would get for killing a regular mod. unless someone can correct me on this and has tested it i would love to hear the results.

yes your dmg thanks to aura and mods on your melee has increase, so it mean killing a lvl 100 its easier now, but its easier to die aswell since u cant run endless with hysteria on, besides that point i was talking about enemies over lvl 200 and they still can be kill but if u run out of hysteria which it will happen because the energy cost you wont kill them at all and then you will be force to leave...so for what i was using valkyr to have fun in a long run its not that much fun but in the end she still good an fun to play, my point was its that i didnt see her nerf so much needed since she still not bringing anything to team play so now she its worse at what she was good a solo warframe

 

[BL00DYG0DD]

8 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

No, because I rarely play entire sessions running Hysteria constantly. I use it as a stop-gap measure to prevent myself from dying, then turn it off when I have health back and reach a safe point.

that its correct and i agree with you my point its that now on a really long mission the only fun part about warframe when you got most of the stuff already its going solo vs high lvl enemies by that i mean over 200 or 300 enemies, which a lot of ppl dont want to deal with they rather go farm which i dont need.... so valkyr was the my goddess to have fun i could solo with her for a long time but now as you said you need to step out of hysteria which make it that u can get 1 shooted vs those enemies or that you wont do any damage if you were good enough to evade most of the incoming damage so that means no more life support drops ending in a early ending to the mission since your playing solo and if you dont kill fast enough you dont get much

[ravend]

59 minutes ago, BL00DYG0DD said:

yes your dmg thanks to aura and mods on your melee has increase, so it mean killing a lvl 100 its easier now, but its easier to die aswell since u cant run endless with hysteria on, besides that point i was talking about enemies over lvl 200 and they still can be kill but if u run out of hysteria which it will happen because the energy cost you wont kill them at all and then you will be force to leave...so for what i was using valkyr to have fun in a long run its not that much fun but in the end she still good an fun to play, my point was its that i didnt see her nerf so much needed since she still not bringing anything to team play so now she its worse at what she was good a solo warframe

 

That's my feeling too, but both her warcry and hysteria are both dependant on the team letting you do most of the killing. warcry with eternal war on it does help the team if you applied on them. hysteria you could pick people up in a pinch, but so much now. She is binned as a solo frame only now, worse then before.

[BL00DYG0DD]

2 hours ago, ravend said:

That's my feeling too, but both her warcry and hysteria are both dependant on the team letting you do most of the killing. warcry with eternal war on it does help the team if you applied on them. hysteria you could pick people up in a pinch, but so much now. She is binned as a solo frame only now, worse then before.

yeap my point

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

I have literally noticed no change while using Valkyr... wtf was your build that it's made such a huge change?

 

Post your buiild pls

[apo86]

20 hours ago, BloodForTheBloodGods said:

I have literally noticed no change while using Valkyr... wtf was your build that it's made such a huge change?

 

Post your buiild pls

Now that I understand how it's currently calculated: His numbers are way way off. If he used 0.66 or 0.77 before the update, with the same build right now it would be 1 - 1.5 per second. Yeah, more than before, but as you mentioned in practise it's barely noticeable.

The almost eightfold increase he posted about is entirely wrong, unless you build for negative efficiency.

[taiiat]

so let's bullet point all of the things you're wrong about.

- Valkyr has significantly higher EHP than most Warframes. Bombards do not ignore Armor. Valkyr does not 'instantly die' if you don't have Hysteria on if you happen to be in the general vicinity of a Nullifier.
oh, you're not using obvious Mods like Health or Armor, so going complete glass cannon, and then being surprised that you died while not Invulnerable. maybe you should think about that.

Loki as you mention with his 'free escape' or whatever, has significantly lower Survivability period, and has his Ability stripped if he goes inside a Nullifier Shield too.

- Hysterias' increased Energy Cost for extended use has a maximum of 2x the original cost.
i sat in Hysteria for more than 5 minutes to test, and i wasn't even sure if the Cost Increase had been working since i was draining somewhere about 1E/second initially, and 5 minutes later, still about 1E/second. i even questioned if there was a bug with it, but then found that the Energy cost is capped at 2x.
which makes sense since 0.63E/sec * 2 == 1.26E/sec, so both would seem to be about 1E/sec on the HUD.

- if you're 2 Hours into a Survival Mission, then nobody cares. everything will instantly Kill you, yes. so too bad. clearly you should have left that Mission already, because your Warframe, and the game, stopped working quite a while ago.

oh, only three bullets. strange, i expected to have more.

 

Killing Enemies with Valkyr isn't difficult. Enemies at the Levels you complain about being unkillable are easily Killable.
just like 'Melee' in general in Warframe, rely on the QTE Sync Attack game and things die just fine.

On 6/6/2016 at 7:06 PM, Kaisty said:

change the aura so that it not only takes into account for number of enemies killed, but the levels of the enemies killed.

i like that. scale the reduction result with Enemy Level.
something like... Shrink amount == (Enemy Level ^ 0.25) * (whatever the hell the shrink value is now)

Edited June 8, 2016 by taiiat

[Helwar]

As many fellow Tenno  commented, you are not supposed to run a 2 hour mission.

I get why you would want to do it (even If I wouldn't do it myself) but that is not the "intended gameplay". They can't balance the game so it works on a 2 hour run, especially since they can't balance the game to work with lvl 100+ enemies for the sorties either... But that aside, what you do is give or take what a speedrunner does with other games (only.... oposite). If there were a glitchy mechanic that allowed speedrunners to end the game in 2 minutes, you would not expect the creators of said game to "not fix the glitch" only because it hurts your speedrunning. They have to make their game work at the intended level... anything else is just an extra.

So in your case, Valkyr is now harder to use... Well. I didn't read any reason why it should be any harder to play against lvl 500 (is that even possible?) than it was before: 

- Yes, you take the absorved damage if there are enemies around when you finish Hysteria. You can bullet jump into the air and "voila!", no enemies there.

- A nullifier might screw you, yes... But think about it, with lvl 500 enemies, if you enter a nullifier bubble you were dead anyway. Nerf or not.

- Costs more energy... Yeah... As taiiat said, its a x2 maximum. Yeah, it's DOUBLE COST!. But TBH, the double of less than 1 per second is still negligible.

 

TL DR: She has not changed that much! Are you obliterated by lvl 500 enemies? As you should! NErfs or no nerfs!

[ObviousLee]

You're not supposed to be spending two hours in the void. The Devs want you in there at an hour tops. So you don't need to build for two hours. 

[apo86]

10 hours ago, taiiat said:

- Hysterias' increased Energy Cost for extended use has a maximum of 2x the original cost.
i sat in Hysteria for more than 5 minutes to test, and i wasn't even sure if the Cost Increase had been working since i was draining somewhere about 1E/second initially, and 5 minutes later, still about 1E/second. i even questioned if there was a bug with it, but then found that the Energy cost is capped at 2x.
which makes sense since 0.63E/sec * 2 == 1.26E/sec, so both would seem to be about 1E/sec on the HUD.

As far as my testing goes, this is not true. It ramps up to 15 energy per second, but is then reduced by efficiency twice. So if you build with 50% energy reduction you end up with 15 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 3.75 energy/s

The energy reduction factor is still capped at 75% as it always was, but applied two times. If you neglect efficiency/duration, you absolutely can and will surpass 2x the original cost.

I also posted about it here:

If you have any conflicting test results please post your setup and the values you measured, so we can work it out.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, apo86 said:

but is then reduced by efficiency twice.

soundslikeabug.jpg