I officially don't want to play this game any more.

[Azrael]

36 minutes ago, Popstupid said:

Second, why are you modding for radiation? You should be going Viral, Toxin, or Magnetic against Corpus, radiation does reduced damage (I think) against some Corpus.

He was modding to kill the bursa, which does not take extra damage from viral, and which has significantly less shields than health. Actually, Bursas are ferrite armor, so the highest-damaging elemental combo would be corrosive. Electric does extra damage against their health, but the armor will mitigate that damage considerably. Try doing corrosive with a decent status chance to be successful.

 

11 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

ever since they nerfed the turn speed bursas have been a complete joke to kill.

This only sometimes works. They often seem to ignore their nerf and turn instantly. Also, the isolator bursa has a really cheap knockdown that effects you for a really long time, which can easily get you killed.

Try killing an isolator bursa with a non-meta weapon and no powers, and you'll see that they aren't jokes to many newer players.

[AurumandArgentum]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Silvador said:

"Oh, Bursas are easy, they turn slow, do you even lift?"

So, what you're all saying is that just because you have the ability to kill a Bursa with ease, everyone does? Typical elitist responses. You probably run through each map blindly blasting your Prime super weapons without even looking at what you're shooting while thinking happy happy thoughts because "you're so good".

Well, here's a reality check for you. NOT EVERYONE IS AS GOOD AS YOU! Git gud? That's just the peak of arrogance right there. Let me ask you something. How am I supposed to "Git gud" if I can't even PROGRESS!? Difficult? Yeah. They're difficult. Like lifting a bus!

I don't know what hacked world you're living in, but their turn rate is FAR from slow. I tried that strategy. Numerous times.

As for having a burst weapon modded to deal with them? Gee. Wish I'd thought of that. OH WAIT! I'm on a Corpus mission, with a weapon modded to kill Corpus. Hello, it's a Corpus enemy.

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DEAD!

Yeah. Sure. I'll "Git gud". When I can actually kill one of these things! Why don't you stop being elitist pricks and offer some productive advice?

Okay number one I need to get this out of the way but Git gud they aren't hard.

Secondly here is my advice, Ash teleport outs you right behind them, use that. Or grab a damage soaker and roll like hell to get behind them, or use said damage soaker and spam a good melee on their front. Don't play corpus Missions. Most frames makes them trival, Rhino's Stomp works on them doesn't it? Umm maybe pack an explosive weapon like a Kulstar or something. Or my favourite option when they swarm run like hell and bait them to go 1v1, I have others but these are hthe most useful for me.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

17 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

He was modding to kill the bursa, which does not take extra damage from viral, and which has significantly less shields than health. Actually, Bursas are ferrite armor, so the highest-damaging elemental combo would be corrosive. Electric does extra damage against their health, but the armor will mitigate that damage considerably. Try doing corrosive with a decent status chance to be successful.

 

This only sometimes works. They often seem to ignore their nerf and turn instantly. Also, the isolator bursa has a really cheap knockdown that effects you for a really long time, which can easily get you killed.

Try killing an isolator bursa with a non-meta weapon and no powers, and you'll see that they aren't jokes to many newer players.

1. We have powers so we can use them. Not using powers vs tougher enemies is just handicapping yourself, many of the starting frames new players have access to can trivialize bursas eg Excalibur, Rhino.

2. The knockdown effect is easy to dodge once you're used to it and I've tested taking them out with low weaponry, a mk 1 strun and a galatine with no catalysts, max mods etc and had no issues using a Rhino with zero forma.

[Azrael]

28 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

1. We have powers so we can use them. Not using powers vs tougher enemies is just handicapping yourself, many of the starting frames new players have access to can trivialize bursas eg Excalibur, Rhino.

Yes, this is true. But saying "they are balanced because we have powerful CC" is not really a very good argument. DE is actively nerfing CC because they don't want us to trivialize content, which is exactly what you are advocating for. Besides, it's fun! Rhino-stomping them into the air and shooting the panel, however, is NOT fun in any way. And none of this changes the fact that they are disproportionate to the missions they spawn in, which seems to be one of the problems here.

 

29 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

2. The knockdown effect is easy to dodge once you're used to it and I've tested taking them out with low weaponry, a mk 1 strun and a galatine with no catalysts, max mods etc and had no issues using a Rhino with zero forma.

Sometimes, yes. But sometimes things just don't go well and one of them hits you as you come down and then your glued to the ground for a surprising amount of time. This is a bit cheesy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want them removed or nerfed. I think they are fun. But the knockdown spam should be slowed down a bit, the Isolator's knockdown needs to have less duration, and the turn rate needs to be fixed so that it's consistently at the rate it's supposed to be. Overall, though, if OP puts corrosive on a decent weapon, he shouldn't have as much trouble as he is.

[(PSN)Lord_Silvador]

The reason I had the weapons I had was because, as I stated previously, the Gorgon Wraith I am leveling up and modding to be my anti-corpus weapon. As of yet, I don't have access to a better, inherently anti-corpus weapon that isn't a shotgun. Shotguns just get me killed. The Twin Wraith Vipers I have been using for... quite a while, now. I leveled and modded them for a specific boss from a few updates back and have not changed them to something more suited because, even though they are not specifically anti-corpus in general, they still eat through Corpus mobs like crazy on the levels I am at. The last time I played, Bursas did not exist, so they were not accounted for in my weapon loadouts. Thus I have not had the time to level and mod any weapons to specifically counter Bursas. Additionally, I've not had the chance to scan them yet so as to see what their weaknesses are.

Yeah, yeah, "look it up on google". If we all just went straight to Google for all the answers, what the hell is the point of even having the codex and the information it provides?

That being said, I have been to google. I have looked for strategies, clues and advice for fighting Bursas. I've been beating my head against this proverbial brick wall for almost a week. So don't keep assuming that I am just throwing in the towel after a single loss as many of you seem to be believing I am. I have tried, repeatedly, with what I have at my disposal, and still I cannot kill these things without purging my entire reserves of ammo and revives.

Getting behind them wasn't hard to figure out. Doing so was, especially when they're either spamming knock-downs, rockets, or some other OP garbage at me while I try to stay alive. Shooting their head, just above their shielding, was my second thought. But as with shooting them behind, damage inflicted was minimal and/or pointless for the amount of damage inflicted upon me. I'm not just some noob crying because he can't "beat a hard mob". I legitimately believe these things to be, as some have said above, disproportionate to their place of spawn. They don't just need another nerf, but a complete and total rethink of design.

[Azrael]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Lord_Silvador said:

I have looked for strategies, clues and advice for fighting Bursas.

I believe you, and I'm not trying to accuse you of giving up too early. But there have been multiple strategies offered which are proven to be effective, and which I think will work for you (I personally pointed out several). The main things are: use CC, and mod for corrosive on at least one weapon, Rhino, Excal, and Mirage are all easy to get and have a good CC ability that can trivialize them, provided you have modded your weapon to kill them (i.e. corrosive).

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Yes, this is true. But saying "they are balanced because we have powerful CC" is not really a very good argument. DE is actively nerfing CC because they don't want us to trivialize content, which is exactly what you are advocating for. Besides, it's fun! Rhino-stomping them into the air and shooting the panel, however, is NOT fun in any way. And none of this changes the fact that they are disproportionate to the missions they spawn in, which seems to be one of the problems here.

 

Sometimes, yes. But sometimes things just don't go well and one of them hits you as you come down and then your glued to the ground for a surprising amount of time. This is a bit cheesy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want them removed or nerfed. I think they are fun. But the knockdown spam should be slowed down a bit, the Isolator's knockdown needs to have less duration, and the turn rate needs to be fixed so that it's consistently at the rate it's supposed to be. Overall, though, if OP puts corrosive on a decent weapon, he shouldn't have as much trouble as he is.

Fair points, I understand where you're coming from but I do think the difficulty lf these things is wildly exaggerated by new players who use Rhino and Tonkor and play the game by rolling their face across the keyboard and then whine the first time they meet an enemy that they can't simply shoot in the face. The OP of this thread suggests he unloaded a clip of bullets into the front of a Bursa and then decided they were impossible to kill, threatened to quit etc. Personally I welcome challenging enemies that take more of a point and click mentality to defeat but I admit that I am what you would refer to as a "seasoned" gamer, particularly in FPS.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Zilchy

[-CdG-Zilchy]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)Lord_Silvador said:

The reason I had the weapons I had was because, as I stated previously, the Gorgon Wraith I am leveling up and modding to be my anti-corpus weapon. As of yet, I don't have access to a better, inherently anti-corpus weapon that isn't a shotgun. Shotguns just get me killed. The Twin Wraith Vipers I have been using for... quite a while, now. I leveled and modded them for a specific boss from a few updates back and have not changed them to something more suited because, even though they are not specifically anti-corpus in general, they still eat through Corpus mobs like crazy on the levels I am at. The last time I played, Bursas did not exist, so they were not accounted for in my weapon loadouts. Thus I have not had the time to level and mod any weapons to specifically counter Bursas. Additionally, I've not had the chance to scan them yet so as to see what their weaknesses are.

Yeah, yeah, "look it up on google". If we all just went straight to Google for all the answers, what the hell is the point of even having the codex and the information it provides?

That being said, I have been to google. I have looked for strategies, clues and advice for fighting Bursas. I've been beating my head against this proverbial brick wall for almost a week. So don't keep assuming that I am just throwing in the towel after a single loss as many of you seem to be believing I am. I have tried, repeatedly, with what I have at my disposal, and still I cannot kill these things without purging my entire reserves of ammo and revives.

Getting behind them wasn't hard to figure out. Doing so was, especially when they're either spamming knock-downs, rockets, or some other OP garbage at me while I try to stay alive. Shooting their head, just above their shielding, was my second thought. But as with shooting them behind, damage inflicted was minimal and/or pointless for the amount of damage inflicted upon me. I'm not just some noob crying because he can't "beat a hard mob". I legitimately believe these things to be, as some have said above, disproportionate to their place of spawn. They don't just need another nerf, but a complete and total rethink of design.

I'm gonna do you a favour. Later on when I have time I'm going to make a short video of killing bursas with less optimised weaponry for you. 

For the record, Gorgon wraith is a terrible choice of weapon to make your corpus killer so I suggest more research. Codex scans help for finding out an enemy's weaknesses if you don't want to use wikipedia.

Personally, since you are having trouble on Neptune and have such mediocre weaponry I would suggest that you are trying to rush through the planets too quickly, there's no way I would've been such a low level by the time I got to Neptune.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Zilchy

[Azrael]

Okay, here is my submission in the "kill a bursa without anything powerful" contest. I used a MK-1 Braton with a zero forma build (it has formas on it, but they aren't needed for the build), and Excal. I used no powers. I went to the simulacrum because I didn't feel like waiting around for a bursa to spawn.

Spoiler

 

 

Fair disclosure: I tried this with an isolator bursa, and it did not go well. Blinding it made it easy, but that's not as much fun!

[Guest]

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Silvador said:

It showed up before me and God knows I unloaded every bullet I had into that thing, plus all four of my revives and an whole slew of melee attacks. But all it did was laugh at me.

But there is a line. A line that has been crossed. From difficult to impossible! Absurd! Insane!

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All you elitists and P2W people can "deal with them no sweat" blah blah blah. Good for you.

For the rest of us average players, these things are a NIGHTMARE! I now find myself dreading doing a Corpus mission because of these things. Half the game is essentially locked out because of these things. How am I expected to progress if I can't kill these things? Why should I continue to play if I can't progress?

This SINGLE mob (and its alternate incarnations) have literally brought me to the point of no longer wanting to play this game on account of the fact that Bursa's are so far beyond my capabilities there simply is no more fun to be had.

Would you like to complain about heavy gunners next? How about those ancients and eximus units, pretty OP if you ask me.

Spoiler

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

^ I remember that video and I recall that it was made BEFORE the turn speed was nerfed so that makes an even stronger statement.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, SigmaLambdaOmega said:

 

Would you like to complain about heavy gunners next? How about those ancients and eximus units, pretty OP if you ask me.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You know, I have no trouble with bursas. I didn't complain about them, and don't want them nerfed. But after listening to this guy make fun of people who do have trouble, I kinda hate him. In fact, I REALLY hate him, he talks like a little kid who just got the first chance he's ever had to make fun of someone. Believe it or not, there are newer players who don't have forma'd tonkors (which is the only weapon he actually used to kill a bursa), who encounter these things in low-level missions and get wrecked, and this DOESN'T mean they are bad at the game. I also note he never got blinded then knocked down for about 30 seconds, then dragged halfway across the map, which does in fact happen to people all at once.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

You know, I have no trouble with bursas. I didn't complain about them, and don't want them nerfed. But after listening to this guy make fun of people who do have trouble, I kinda hate him. In fact, I REALLY hate him, he talks like a little kid who just got the first chance he's ever had to make fun of someone. Believe it or not, there are newer players who don't have forma'd tonkors (which is the only weapon he actually used to kill a bursa), who encounter these things in low-level missions and get wrecked, and this DOESN'T mean they are bad at the game. I also note he never got blinded then knocked down for about 30 seconds, then dragged halfway across the map, which does in fact happen to people all at once.

He didn't get blinded, dragged etc cos he knows what he's doing.

[Azrael]

Just now, Zilchy said:

He didn't get blinded, dragged etc cos he knows what he's doing.

He didn't show any isolators, as far as I remember. He was literally standing in front of them jumping up and down, and an isolator would have blinded him and launched missiles at him immediately. Also in some cases he was freezing them and generally CC-ing them, which obviously makes any enemy look stupid, no matter how powerful it is. I feel like making a video where I CC some bombards and go "oh, look, they are SO HARD, I'm gonna go whine, bla bla bla...". All you're saying is that CC is really powerful in this game.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

He didn't show any isolators, as far as I remember. He was literally standing in front of them jumping up and down, and an isolator would have blinded him and launched missiles at him immediately. Also in some cases he was freezing them and generally CC-ing them, which obviously makes any enemy look stupid, no matter how powerful it is. I feel like making a video where I CC some bombards and go "oh, look, they are SO HARD, I'm gonna go whine, bla bla bla...". All you're saying is that CC is really powerful in this game.

I thought it was the Drover that does the flashbangs not the isolator? Isolator is knockdown, harpoon and the green glob of doom. I might be wrong. I was more pointing to the timing he shows when dodging the knockdown attack.

[Azrael]

53 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I thought it was the Drover that does the flashbangs not the isolator? Isolator is knockdown, harpoon and the green glob of doom. I might be wrong. I was more pointing to the timing he shows when dodging the knockdown attack.

Actually, you are correct, my mistake. It is the denial bursa that blinds. Still, that never happened, I never saw them turn around instantly, I never saw them launch missiles that can one-shot frames, I never saw the isolator grapple... Basically, Those encounters looked very different from the high-level encounters I've had where we haven't immediately CC'd them. When I was messing about with no-power fights against them (see the above video I posted), the isolator would routinely one-shot me as I was flying through the air trying to get behind it, whereas the drover was a cakewalk. My point is, the video sigma posted is kind of a straw man argument, since it didn't show him killing them or dealing with some of the more annoying behavior they've been doing lately.

[Flirk2]

There was an observation that people get totally different fights depending on their rig, or whether or not they are the host in the mission.

Did you ever see moas suddenly going on almost twice their normal speed for no apparent reason?

There may be some hardware related inconsistency in enemy actions.

But regardless of that, I still can't get why are there so many people defending a unit that is highly out of line with other corpus units:

1) it has armor, only an irrelevant oxium osprey and Hyenas, which are bosses, have armor in Corpus. (and hyenas have only 25 alloy armor and 800 robotic at base, while Bursa have 200 ferrite and 1200 robotic)

2) it has boss-level health

3) it has shock wave that make shock wave moa green with envy, a shotgun that makes detron crewmen green with envy, rockets that make angstrum wielding units green with envy, directional immunity that makes combas with energy shields green with envy, a grappling hook that no other corpus unit has, blind that no other corpus unit has, and animations that seem to be shorter then other moas.

4) And they have no restriction as to planet they show up.

 

It matters not that a player with more then 1000 hours in the game can deal with them with weapons that are not optimal. Because those things are a trouble for people that go through the star map for the first time. And they completely throw faction specific modding out of the window. Because you don't mod for corpus anymore. You mod for bursa. Which, accidentally, is the same way you mod for heavy gunners...

[IceColdHawk]

5 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

You know, I have no trouble with bursas. I didn't complain about them, and don't want them nerfed. But after listening to this guy make fun of people who do have trouble, I kinda hate him. In fact, I REALLY hate him, he talks like a little kid who just got the first chance he's ever had to make fun of someone. Believe it or not, there are newer players who don't have forma'd tonkors (which is the only weapon he actually used to kill a bursa), who encounter these things in low-level missions and get wrecked, and this DOESN'T mean they are bad at the game. I also note he never got blinded then knocked down for about 30 seconds, then dragged halfway across the map, which does in fact happen to people all at once.

I just want to point out that he didn't make this video because he just wanted to make fun of people. He simply got annoyed by so many people complaining about bursas and that is understandable.

Everytime you hear people scream they want challenge. Oh and please nerf these things because they remove challenge. But dare DE make something different than the usual crewman, people are going to jump the gun instantly. Disgusting. And it's not like avalanche or prism were the only things to counter bursas. There are countless methods to shut them down. Even the starter frames are able to do this. And you just proved that you don't even need a tonkor to kill them so there's that.

Edited June 12, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[BlackCoMerc]

15 hours ago, Demon.King said:

Don't use loki in a spy? are you insane or what? Stop trolling please. Told you the problem isn't that I can't deal with them, it's simply that they are anti fun.

Everyone keeps coming back to the Elitist "they aren't hard" crap.

This thread was never about hard. It's about fun.

Corpus are anti-fun. You cannot rely on melee OR your powers at higher levels. And you HAVE to bring a rapud fire automatic weapon for Nullifiers to boot, poor ammo economy and all. 

Corpus turn off everything that makes Warframe unique constantly, reducing the game to a fast moving third person shooter in space. Who wants this?

If DE cannot offer challenge while leaving powers intact they need to take a hard look at their game.

[IceColdHawk]

10 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Everyone keeps coming back to the Elitist "they aren't hard" crap.

This thread was never about hard. It's about fun.

Corpus are anti-fun. You cannot rely on melee OR your powers at higher levels. And you HAVE to bring a rapud fire automatic weapon for Nullifiers to boot, poor ammo economy and all. 

Corpus turn off everything that makes Warframe unique constantly, reducing the game to a fast moving third person shooter in space. Who wants this?

If DE cannot offer challenge while leaving powers intact they need to take a hard look at their game.

I agree with you for corpus being anti-fun. But not because of bursas. But because of nullifiers who block and dispell not only all our abilities but also our weapons...

[Unibot]

There is only 1 hard enemy in this game - it's level 9999 nullifier, other than that, not much of a threat.

[Popstupid]

14 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

He was modding to kill the bursa, which does not take extra damage from viral, and which has significantly less shields than health. Actually, Bursas are ferrite armor, so the highest-damaging elemental combo would be corrosive. Electric does extra damage against their health, but the armor will mitigate that damage considerably. Try doing corrosive with a decent status chance to be successful.

 

This only sometimes works. They often seem to ignore their nerf and turn instantly. Also, the isolator bursa has a really cheap knockdown that effects you for a really long time, which can easily get you killed.

Try killing an isolator bursa with a non-meta weapon and no powers, and you'll see that they aren't jokes to many newer players.

 

Yeah but killing the Bursa will be easier since Viral lowers its health by 50% and you said it yourself, they have more health than shields so while Magnetic won't help as much, the Viral effect is better.

[Joel_The_Jackle]

OP...I saw you make statement that shotguns just get you killed...which shotguns do you have and how are you modding them? Using my regular rhino and stomp I can one-shot pretty much any starmap bursa with my hek, tigris (non-syndicate verstions) and sobek...occasionally I'll need a follow up shot if I roll low. Mostly have to shoot more in sortie missions. I don't have any crazy mods...just the easy ones you get from doing the star map, low-level void containers and a couple corrupted mods. I think I have had most of them since MR 4 or 5 and farmed them myself....

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Popstupid said:

Yeah but killing the Bursa will be easier since Viral lowers its health by 50% and you said it yourself, they have more health than shields so while Magnetic won't help as much, the Viral effect is better.

You are assuming a viral proc, but we don't know what his status chance was. Corrosive damage still does better than viral in many case, even with a proc. Although I agree that viral would probably be fine. Radiation, however,  is definitely the wrong element to use.

[(PSN)Lord_Silvador]

Currently, the only shotgun weapon I have in Warframe is the Strun. And my statement about shotguns only getting me killed isn't limited to Warframe. I said above that I main Rhino because I'm not good at avoiding damage. I've been playing shooter style games for a decent amount of time and in that time I've learned where my limitations lie. And immediately in front (or just in close range) of the thing I'm trying to kill is not within that line. I do a whole lot better at range, the longer, the better. Shotguns put me right up in the thick of damage and that more often than not results in me getting myself killed faster than normal.

As for this thread going for 8 pages, I'd say it's because, for the most part, it has been a relatively civil discussion on what the Bursas are or are not, whether it be difficult, fun, or well/poorly designed.

Also, I do appreciate the advice given in the thread.