Overpowered players

[Prany]

33 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

Weapons are overpowered? Sure, now why dont you take that overpowered weapons of yours into 2 hours of t4 survival and see how enemies melt.

Most people don't play nor care to play for so long. Many simply can't afford to spare that much time. To them it's irrevelent how game is balanced after hour or two in endless modes. If they want good chalange but also quick session, what Warframe offers is very limiting.

[-dicht.nomoreraiding-]

27 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Do you feel overpowered at 2+ hours T4 survival? No?

Why would you ever want to go 2 hours in T4 survival anyway?

Oh my, is it for the challenge? How do you expect to be challenged if you're overpowered? Challenge is by definition a trail that tests your skills. Being overpowered means that you can easily overcome the obstacle and make it look easy. You can't be challenged if you're OP.

That's why you stay in the void for so long. You test your limits and try to push your builds as far as you can and eventually you're forced to evac or die. That's the opposite of being OP.

Totally missing the point as expected. You were complaining about warframe powers/weapons being OP - sinking a whole magazine of modded vaykor-hek just to kill a level 100 bombard is not OP.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

16 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

And this is the only thing keeping us vets in the game aside from farming for new stuff. Removing it by nerfing everything we use to be able to enjoy this (especially energy economy), is a free ticket to travel to other games. But things like prism nerf were okay. Now that was something that could be called "op" since it made all other CC's redundant, just like shield polarize did to all other dmg abilities. And limiting energy restores? Why? We don't get them for free, we build them. And if you're new, you don't have the resources to keep them up constantly. Unless you've spent like 2k+ hours into this game and got tons of resources, but then you DESERVED IT. Ofc you're gonna be OP once you mastered the game and played it through!

Thing is, current scaling is simply changing numbers. Enemy behavior remains unchanged and the only difference is the ever increasing number of disabling eximuses. What difference would it make if you could "only" go as far as 40-50 minutes in survival instead of 2+ hours? The enemies would play exactly the same (minus all the eximuses). The difference would be in player behavior and the fact that they could enjoy the sweet spot of challenge for longer instead of going from trivial to frustrating all too quickly. Furthermore DE could add more rotations so you'd have an actual reason for going for as long as you possibly can.

2 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

Totally missing the point as expected. You were complaining about warframe powers/weapons being OP - sinking a whole magazine of modded vaykor-hek just to kill a level 100 bombard is not OP.

That's because you're looking at balance from a perspective of a 2h+ T4 survival which has little to no relevance to 90% of the content in the game.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Thing is, current scaling is simply changing numbers. Enemy behavior remains unchanged and the only difference is the ever increasing number of disabling eximuses. What difference would it make if you could "only" go as far as 40-50 minutes in survival instead of 2+ hours? The enemies would play exactly the same (minus all the eximuses). The difference would be in player behavior and the fact that they could enjoy the sweet spot of challenge for longer instead of going from trivial to frustrating all too quickly. Furthermore DE could add more rotations so you'd have an actual reason for going for as long as you possibly can.

That's because you're looking at balance from a perspective of a 2h+ T4 survival which has little to no relevance to 90% of the content in the game.

I dunno if your soloing even as a veteran it gets hard

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)Itz chibi said:

I dunno if your soloing even as a veteran it gets hard

I do. I did an hour t4 survival today. Thing is, I wouldn't call it difficult. My Loki was basically perma invisible. The only "challenge" was not getting caught with invisibility down or getting caught in a nucifier field. Things just got tedious with eximus nullifiers and I was forced out. The only difference in shorter and hour long survivals is in how many bullets it takes to kill enemies and how unforgivable they are to mistakes.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

Just now, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I do. I did an hour t4 survival today. Thing is, I wouldn't call it difficult. My Loki was basically perma invisible. The only "challenge" was not getting caught with invisibility down or getting caught in a nucifier field. Things just got tedious with eximus nullifiers and I was forced out. The only difference in shorter and hour long survivals is in how many bullets it takes to kill enemies and unforgivable they are to mistakes. That's not skill, but an exercise in frustration. The more OP weapons and frame combinations you use the longer you can stay.

Welp i do it with nova prime can heal all things  and still pretty tough

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

58 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Unless you've spent like 2k+ hours into this game and got tons of resources, but then you DESERVED IT.

what if as a veteran i feel like " i deserve a challenge", ruk-style? :3

[-dicht.nomoreraiding-]

49 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

That's because you're looking at balance from a perspective of a 2h+ T4 survival which has little to no relevance to 90% of the content in the game.

Wow - 90% of the content. Do 90% of the players in this game are "overpowered" as you said?

 

24 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I do. I did an hour t4 survival today. Thing is, I wouldn't call it difficult. My Loki was basically perma invisible. The only "challenge" was not getting caught with invisibility down or getting caught in a nucifier field. Things just got tedious with eximus nullifiers and I was forced out. The only difference in shorter and hour long survivals is in how many bullets it takes to kill enemies and how unforgivable they are to mistakes.

Talked about wanting challenge - brought a invisible frame to a survival where enemies fired 0 bullets cos they cant see ****. Tedious eximus nullifiers? Thought they are here to stop the so-called warframe abilities spamming you are talking about. 

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

1 minute ago, nomoreraining said:

Wow - 90% of the content. Do 90% of the players in this game are "overpowered" as you said?

 I said content, not players. The entire starchart and entire T1,2 is completely trivial compared to long T4 endless, sorties, raids.

1 minute ago, nomoreraining said:

 

Talked about wanting challenge - brought a invisible frame to a survival where enemies fired 0 bullets cos they cant see ****. Tedious eximus nullifiers? Thought they are here to stop the so-called warframe abilities spamming you are talking about. 

I have to ask, what do YOU bring in a long solo T4 survival? You're forced to take a cheesy frame because anything else gets oneshot. My suggestion would get rid or severely restrict nucifiers and get rid of eximuses who have no lore explanation whatsoever. They are a blatant counter to player abilities and limit our agency and weapon selection. It's unfortunate, but DE won't get rid of them until we accept a considerable decrease to player weapons and end our ability spam.

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

 I said content, not players. The entire starchart and entire T1,2 is completely trivial compared to long T4 endless, sorties, raids.

I have to ask, what do YOU bring in a long solo T4 survival? You're forced to take a cheesy frame because anything else gets oneshot. My suggestion would get rid or severely restrict nucifiers and get rid of eximuses who have no lore explanation whatsoever. They are a blatant counter to player abilities and limit our agency and weapon selection. It's unfortunate, but DE won't get rid of them until we accept a considerable decrease to player weapons and end our ability spam.

(⁎˃ᆺ˂) I 1 hit them Vor in t4 I beat him up bad.

Then I got back to my ship and my operator sits in nova primes lap and eats cookies 

I am sure we all do this with our warframes

Edited June 23, 2016 by (XB1)Itz chibi

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

Oh you asked what i bring orthos p a few primed mods like reach and trauma

as for Warframes i use nova p with vigor and agility armor is it and heavy armor mods carrier has sanctuary it heals shields rejuvenation med ray and your pretty much set to be able to solo a survival

Edited June 23, 2016 by (XB1)Itz chibi

[-dicht.nomoreraiding-]

13 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I have to ask, what do YOU bring in a long solo T4 survival?

What I bring is of no relevance. I am not the one complaining about overpowered players - YOU are.

14 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

t's unfortunate, but DE won't get rid of them until we accept a considerable decrease to player weapons and end our ability spam.

There is already one - the nullifiers. If you could not even handle them, please dont even bother talking about nerfing overpowered players. There are plenty of challenging things to do in warframe - just because you are not doing it (or cant handle it), your yardstick does not apply to everyone.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

11 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

There are plenty of challenging things to do in warframe

name just one...

[IRVoidGuru]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I don't know how long you've been playing, but for the past 2+ years that I've been playing we went from having limited energy and ran around collecting energy orbs and huddling around trinity waiting for EV to run it's course to fleeting expertise and with energy siphon stacking you could cast an ult every 11s. But that still wasn't enough, so they gave us restores which made ES obsolete and finally we have syndicate restores and EV restoring remaining energy on kill.

Anyway, my point with scaling is that unlike other Power attributes that scale linearly efficiency scales non-linearly. Applying Intensify increases power strength by 30% for a total of 130%, but applying Streamline reduces the cost by 30% effectively resulting in 143% the number of casts. This difference in scaling only increases as you approach the cap and ends at 4x number of casts. This makes modding for efficiency much more effective than any other attribute which is not balanced and allows for things like casting an ultimate for a price of a single energy orb.

There is a reason energy economy exists in the game. It's the same reason mana or other equivalents exist in other RPG games. It's to limit the player in use of magic (well, void magic) and forces them to use it more wisely. Energy still works as intended for newbies, but once they get their hand on and max efficiency mods their power basically multiplies since they can now cast their room clearing and disabling abilities for little to no cost. End result is them blazing through the content and turning warframe from tense engaging ninja shooter into a farming simulator.

so then limit the players ability to gain these massivly nice energy gaining abilitys like resores...oh wait ! syndacates and dojo research + credit cost and resorce amounts !!!!! fleeting is in the OD vaults or pay plat. Zenurik is behind a Quest lock and .....Arcane energize is behind the raid ! new players cant get access to these easily without paying or having a nice friend. DE put a content "limit " of sort and players walked right past it. thats not a reason to nerf or remove anything sorry bro. only means we need a better limiter on getting said abilitys making them more of a "rare " drop will get better feedback then "drop the nerf hammer"

Quote

Do you feel overpowered at 2+ hours T4 survival? No?

Why would you ever want to go 2 hours in T4 survival anyway?

Oh my, is it for the challenge? How do you expect to be challenged if you're overpowered? Challenge is by definition a trail that tests your skills. Being overpowered means that you can easily overcome the obstacle and make it look easy. You can't be challenged if you're OP.

That's why you stay in the void for so long. You test your limits and try to push your builds as far as you can and eventually you're forced to evac or die. That's the opposite of being OP.

so wait , is he overpowered for being able to do , or want to do 2h+ solo ina t4s. or is it the oposite of being OP? lil confused at the point your trying to make + i can do that without efficientcy mods. the ability to Gain energy back at an increased rate is deserving of players who have spent the time to be able to do so. ill say as iv said before, limiting energy massivly would limit my fun in this game. when i explain to people why i love this game one of my instant reactions is ( because i have access to almost 30 warframes with 4 different powers each at least ) it would not sound good to others or feel good for me as a player to say " iv spent 3000 hours into this game but cant even keep up energy " 

Edited June 23, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

13 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

name just one...

soloing a sortie

[IRVoidGuru]

51 minutes ago, (XB1)Itz chibi said:

soloing a sortie

100 wave T4d without frost limbo or mirage!

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

Just now, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

100 wave T4d without frost limbo or mirage!

That i would love to be able to do -Hugs all around if i could

[-dicht.nomoreraiding-]

1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

name just one...

Breaking the world's raid record.

Or maybe for you, less trolling on forums and more time spent on actually playing the game.

Edited June 23, 2016 by nomoreraining

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Itz chibi said:

soloing a sortie

You are implying this is challenge and not tedium. Those are two entirely different things.

8 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

Breaking the world's raid record.

This comes close to being challenging, by the actual definition of the word, but the problem is that this highlights the problems that people like OP are talking about-- the fastest raid times are done by people who cheese harder than other people, get lucky with enemies not going directly for people doing important tasks, and repeatedly attempting it to find where to cut as many corners as possible.

The problem is that the raids, themselves, aren't challenging. They are literally a cheese or be cheesed scenario. Yes I've done them. No I wouldn't recommend anyone participate in them until they are made into something actually worth wasting time on.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Chipputer
typo

[(XBOX)Ahkyoz]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

You are implying this is challenge and not tedium. Those are two entirely different things.

This comes close to being challenging, by the actual definition of the word, but the problem is that this highlights the problems that people like OP are talking about-- the fastest raid times are done by people who cheese harder than other people, get lucky with enemies not going directly for people doing important tasks, and repeatedly attempting it to find where to cut as many corners as possible.

The problem is that the raids, themselves, aren't challenging. They are literally a cheese or be cheesed scenario. Yes I've done them. No I wouldn't recommend anyone participate in them until they are made into something actually worth wasting time on.

Ever soloed them?

[-dicht.nomoreraiding-]

11 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

This comes close to being challenging, by the actual definition of the word, but the problem is that this highlights the problems that people like OP are talking about-- the fastest raid times are done by people who cheese harder than other people, get lucky with enemies not going directly for people doing important tasks, and repeatedly attempting it to find where to cut as many corners as possible.

The problem is that the raids, themselves, aren't challenging. They are literally a cheese or be cheesed scenario. Yes I've done them. No I wouldn't recommend anyone participate in them until they are made into something actually worth wasting time on.

Apart from the map in Stage 3, there is close to no element of luck in raids - you either get a good team or get rekted.

Never said anything about raid being challenging - trying to break the current record every single time you raid, IS. 

[DatDarkOne]

47 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

They are literally a cheese or be cheesed scenario. Yes I've done them.

I challenge you to do the current one Solo.  It has Vay Hek as the Mission 3 Sortie boss.  Have fun.  :D

Spoiler

P.S.  I've just finished it. 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added content

[Azrael]

29 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I challenge you to do the current one Solo.  It has Vay Hek as the Mission 3 Sortie boss.  Have fun.  :D

  Hide contents

P.S.  I've just finished it. 

 

This sounds like fun! What frame / weapon did you use?

Hopefully not mag, I would become disappoint...   :)

[Chipputer]

49 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I challenge you to do the current one Solo.  It has Vay Hek as the Mission 3 Sortie boss.  Have fun.  :D

  Reveal hidden contents

P.S.  I've just finished it. 

 

Mag with a corrosive Torid.

It's not a challenge. It's tedium.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, nomoreraining said:

Never said anything about raid being challenging - trying to break the current record every single time you raid, IS. 

Again, by definition of the word challenge, yes, but the gameplay, itself, is not challenging. It's cheese or be cheesed.

I mean, good on you. You named one thing that technically can be done in Warframe that is challenging. The problem is where that challenge comes from.