Hey [DE], will the Dakra Prime and Boar Prime be receiving a balance pass upon un-vaulting?

[OzoneSlayer]

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Dakra_prime/t_30_230000002_224-2-5-226-4-5-239-5-5-241-7-5-254-6-5-307-8-3-625-1-5-637-0-10-733-3-10_637-7-625-5-224-9-733-14-226-9-239-9-254-11-241-11-307-10/en/4-0-12

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Prisma_Skana/t_30_000000002_226-4-5-239-5-5-241-7-5-254-6-5-307-8-3-368-2-3-625-1-5-637-0-10-733-3-10_637-14-625-9-368-7-733-14-226-9-239-9-254-11-241-11-307-10/en/4-0-81/

 

Here @DreadWarlock . I did what I could and dakra won out bud

 

[Harkin]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)dcYeezy said:

I frequently use the Boar prime, and it's usually my go to shotgun, particularly in shotgun only sortie. 

I think people underestimate how powerful 100% status can be.

Problem is they slapped it with an unnecessary nerf. It used to have better status chance, fire rate, and reload speed. It did get a trade off with a bigger clip and a bit more damage, but the weapon still feels way worse to use.

I used to frequently use it too, even used to be my favorite primary.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Harkin

[LazyKnight]

18 minutes ago, DreadWarlock said:

It does not catch up, it surpasses.

I've already made full builds for all three of them. Even using the free slot, Dakra still fall behind Prisma Skana by a bit. Broken War still surpasses both due to absurd base damage, but crits makes Prisma Skana win over Dakra Prime.

Are you talking about damage per hit or damage per second? I know this build can hit harder than Dakra but it has less DPS due to lack of a berserk.

Prisma Skana

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Prisma_Skana/t_30_022200002_224-7-5-239-3-5-241-6-5-251-5-5-307-8-3-368-4-3-625-0-5-637-1-10-733-2-10_625-9-637-7-733-7-239-5-368-7-251-11-241-11-224-9-307-10/en/4-0-81

[ThePredicament]

Boar P is good at where its at. Good auto damage with high status.

Dakra P is pretty much the single sword starter class for primed weapons, and for what it is, it does a great job, better than 90% of the melee weapons in the game.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

balance.
so that there is an actual reason to use both Weapons.

very simple concept.
all Weapons fall into the same boat. applies to all Weapons.

Although given that Broken War is the outlier, it should probably go the other way (nerf Broken War) but give Broken War some special bonuses that keep it desirable, like damage resistance to the last damage type blocked, or increased damage vs. Sentients, or something like that.

[Bizzaro21]

1 hour ago, TheGuyverOne said:

The Boar Prime received some changes with update 17 when they buffed the rest of them. The Dakra doesn't really need a buff because it's still the second best single sword in the game next to broken war.

boar prime was the only one that got nerfed down, its status got reduced by 10%, which is a lot, and its damage wasnt buffed that much, given it is impact, it meant little

[LazyKnight]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

Although given that Broken War is the outlier, it should probably go the other way (nerf Broken War) but give Broken War some special bonuses that keep it desirable, like damage resistance to the last damage type blocked, or increased damage vs. Sentients, or something like that.

Long swords by in large are outright junk, if compared to other melee. There are 3 long swords that are in the usable damage range and the others are worse than using just about any other option. However, those 3 are not outliers compared to the other melee weapons base stats, and it's just crimson dervish that's too good. Without dervish, weapons like Hate have more raw damage/dps than the 3 of them.

DE for awhile was using long swords as master fodder (look at their stats). Most are novelty weapons that are only brought to usable levels with dervish and are still worse than using many other melee weapons.

Edited June 23, 2016 by LazyKnight

[Trowicia]

What I need is a Dakra Prime & Boar Prime PBR pass that's what I need If I do say so myself

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

2 hours ago, OzoneSlayer said:

"Buff this because this weapon is better" isn't a reason to buff it. That's just a reason to use the other weapon tbh. I'm fine one way or another but there needs to be actual justification behind a change

It may be a reason if a vanilla weapon everyone gets from a quest is better than extremely rare weapon that requires a lot of effort to get.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

39 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

Long swords by in large are outright junk, if compared to other melee. There are 3 long swords that are in the usable damage range and the others are worse than using just about any other option. However, those 3 are not outliers compared to the other melee weapons base stats, and it's just crimson dervish that's too good. Without dervish, weapons like Hate have more raw damage/dps than the 3 of them.

DE for awhile was using long swords as master fodder (look at their stats). Most are novelty weapons that are only brought to usable levels with dervish and are still worse than using many other melee weapons.

 

Fair point.

[DreadWarlock]

1 hour ago, OzoneSlayer said:

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Dakra_prime/t_30_230000002_224-2-5-226-4-5-239-5-5-241-7-5-254-6-5-307-8-3-625-1-5-637-0-10-733-3-10_637-7-625-5-224-9-733-14-226-9-239-9-254-11-241-11-307-10/en/4-0-12

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Prisma_Skana/t_30_000000002_226-4-5-239-5-5-241-7-5-254-6-5-307-8-3-368-2-3-625-1-5-637-0-10-733-3-10_637-14-625-9-368-7-733-14-226-9-239-9-254-11-241-11-307-10/en/4-0-81/

 

Here @DreadWarlock . I did what I could and dakra won out bud

 

You're forgetting the 10k corrosive damage sindicate procs in Prisma Skana...

[OzoneSlayer]

23 minutes ago, DreadWarlock said:

You're forgetting the 10k corrosive damage sindicate procs in Prisma Skana...

1k, which IMO isn't valuable enough in high level to justify using it. It also has less slash damage and in 4x CP/Flesh Dakra pulls even further ahead

[OzoneSlayer]

1 hour ago, Harkin said:

Problem is they slapped it with an unnecessary nerf. It used to have better status chance, fire rate, and reload speed. It did get a trade off with a bigger clip and a bit more damage, but the weapon still feels way worse to use.

I used to frequently use it too, even used to be my favorite primary.

Exactly this. It wasn't even overpowered. It (and the brakk) Need their nerfs reverted

 

EDIT

What pisses me off even further is that they took away the 40% status from it and then decided to give it to the Strun wraith

Edited June 24, 2016 by OzoneSlayer

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

Although given that Broken War is the outlier, it should probably go the other way (nerf Broken War) but give Broken War some special bonuses that keep it desirable, like damage resistance to the last damage type blocked, or increased damage vs. Sentients, or something like that.

don't look at me, i didn't say what to do. just that having reasons to consider using more than one thing is crucial.
even Dakra isn't really that interesting though, it's stats are basically just 'pretty good at everything' compared to other Longswords.

1 hour ago, LazyKnight said:

Long swords by in large are outright junk, if compared to other melee.

i attribute this primarily due to having subpar Animation Sequences, even for the subpar Melee Animations in Warframe in general in the first place.

 

i'll keep dreaming of a Bastard Sword, but as ever at the same time dread it, because unless Melee is rethought from the ground up to be useful first, and a movie second, releasing a Bastard Sword would just be a disappointment for me when it should be a fangirl reaction from me.
there's so much awesome stuff a Bastard Sword could do, bringing so many useful Tools to the table, and none of them being randomly flailing around at the air like an idiot.

 

Edit:

40 minutes ago, DreadWarlock said:

You're forgetting the 10k corrosive damage sindicate procs in Prisma Skana...

Syndicate Explosions are 1000 Damage (2000 effective since they count as an Explosion but meh w/e). which doesn't hurt but also isn't really that big a deal.
only Viral Explosions are truly noteworthy, since they have an effective 4000 Damage. and the Viral Status lasts plenty long enough to take advantage on atleast the current Enemy if you're having trouble Killing it.

a single Corrosive Status isn't useful either.
the primary benefit is the extra Base Damage and the Health Bonus you get.

Edited June 24, 2016 by taiiat

[LazyKnight]

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i'll keep dreaming of a Bastard Sword, but as ever at the same time dread it, because unless Melee is rethought from the ground up to be useful first, and a movie second, releasing a Bastard Sword would just be a disappointment for me when it should be a fangirl reaction from me.
there's so much awesome stuff a Bastard Sword could do, bringing so many useful Tools to the table, and none of them being randomly flailing around at the air like an idiot.

I feel the same way about a 2 handed war Scthe, like the Eclipse Scythe in Ninja Gaiden series. Why couldn't DE just use the 2 light/strong attack that ninja gaiden and other fighting games use and give fluid combat... sigh. 

[DreadWarlock]

On 23/06/2016 at 9:28 PM, OzoneSlayer said:

1k, which IMO isn't valuable enough in high level to justify using it. It also has less slash damage and in 4x CP/Flesh Dakra pulls even further ahead

Sure, because 200 points of damage in difference is so much better... And where does it say that it causes 1k? It always causes 10k whenever it procs in mid-level missions, 1k may be due to armor reduction perhaps?

Because, i've seen it cause more than 5k against level 50-65 and 10k in draco, around the 40's.

[OzoneSlayer]

3 hours ago, DreadWarlock said:

Sure, because 200 points of damage in difference is so much better... And where does it say that it causes 1k? It always causes 10k whenever it procs in mid-level missions, 1k may be due to armor reduction perhaps?

Because, i've seen it cause more than 5k against level 50-65 and 10k in draco, around the 40's.

When you factor in resistances and weaknesses yes, it is better, especially since its constant application. Every consecutive hit the dakra's damage application pulls further ahead

 

And no they have 1k base damage, not 10k, so armor reduction would make it even lower

[Doothers]

Personally I'd like to see some changes to the Boar. I think Dakra is fine though.

_{Sancti Tigris made me super picky and I hate seeing damage numbers lower than 1k on my shotguns now ;~;}

[Praxxor]

On 6/24/2016 at 1:35 AM, OzoneSlayer said:

"Buff this because this weapon is better" isn't a reason to buff it. That's just a reason to use the other weapon tbh. I'm fine one way or another but there needs to be actual justification behind a change

The thing is that BWar is free while you need to farm your &#! off to get Dakra Prime and it doesn't have a slot or a potato

There's 0 reason to get Dakra Prime aside from MR points, it's the definition of mastery fodder right now

All we want is to differentiate these two weapons, so that BWar is not a direct upgrade, but something like a sidegrade

[Oishii]

Swords are generally an outclassed melee class in general, it would be nice to have the Dakra Prime be on par with the Nikana Prime... outside as a lifestrike weapon where it shines due to crimson dervish having good opening damage. Also, a katana is just a sword. I don't understand why katanas have their own special class.

[SANIC_HEGEHOG]

there are people defending the fact that dakra is weaker than broken war, no wonder the balance is a$$

[ShiraHagane]

why does everyone always say MR 5 for second dream, it only requires MR 3

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

On 23 June 2016 at 10:25 PM, TheGuyverOne said:

The Boar Prime received some changes with update 17 when they buffed the rest of them. The Dakra doesn't really need a buff because it's still the second best single sword in the game next to broken war.

With only 66% of the damage of broken war.

[LazyKnight]

1 hour ago, ShiraHagane said:

why does everyone always say MR 5 for second dream, it only requires MR 3

It has to do with a lot of people that post on the forums being quite a bit above the master requirement and not being willing to look at wiki. Also, War requires master rank 10 so it doesn't make sense for a logical stand point that Broken war can be acquired at 3. Broken War should be mastery rank 10 but someone at DE wanted it to be usable dependent on finishing the quest instead of a mastery test. 

[ShiraHagane]

11 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

It has to do with a lot of people that post on the forums being quite a bit above the master requirement and not being willing to look at wiki. Also, War requires master rank 10 so it doesn't make sense for a logical stand point that Broken war can be acquired at 3. Broken War should be mastery rank 10 but someone at DE wanted it to be usable dependent on finishing the quest instead of a mastery test. 

I mean, it would make sense for War, it being arguably the most powerful heavy blade, but if broken War is going to be MR 3, it shouldn't be the most powerful longsword, both balance-wise and logically, since it's a frickin BROKEN sword.