For all that people complaining about the recent Trinity nerf.. Here's a 5 Nekros Jordas Raid

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

2 minutes ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Gee, that's a nice Tonkor you got there.

Next time ill play with my TV turned off so you would be more happy.. or maybe not

[BansheePrime]

Not nearly enough tentacle syandana. 

[Festinger]

... and the people that join my sessions think that we can only have 2 of each frame.

[Monsterwithin]

1 hour ago, rawr1254 said:

JV isnt a very valid way to compare while your against infested and have to kill enemies to clear the mission. You wouldnt get away with that in Lor. JV is waaaaaaaaaaaay easier than lor tbh since you arent allowed to kill stuff in lor much.

But on another note i have no beef with the trin "changes"

It was quite the interesting raid.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

16 minutes ago, Festinger said:

... and the people that join my sessions think that we can only have 2 of each frame.

Thats a nightmare LoR restriction only

[ZodiacShinryu]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

I think Trinity needs a complete rework. 
She still has an ability that breaks the game a little bit. (EV)
But, more important, she is boring to play. If DE reworks Trinity I don't mind if they nerf her or buff her, I just want her to be more engaging and fun to use.

So what you're saying is you want her to be more like Oberon? because I have yet to see a suggested Trinity rework by the community that somehow keeps her support yet more engaging. Trinity is a pure support and no incarnation of a pure support will appeal to anyone that doesn't like pure supports. In nearly every online game where there are the 3 main roles that I have played: healers/supports are generally the least played no matter how engaging.

While I'm not saying EV doesn't need a look at, it is functionally doing what its intended to do which is to make using abilities easier and that's not a bad thing as a support role. What really needs to be changed is that Trinity shouldn't be benefiting as much from the use of her own ability (in terms of energy regeneration) to then support her to use it more. Secondly, Trinity in her current form could be more engaging simply in the form of a game wide damage overhaul and a boost to the base survivability of most of the frames (this would actually help all the frames in viability). In endgame, death becomes an all or nothing game leaving healing even from Trinity being useless which is why the damage mitigations/avoidance was a bigger deal than actual healing. So if we could actually get to a point where we aren't dying instantly we can actually use her powers to heal and support.

As far as the OP goes I applaud moving outside the box because people should be more open minded. I could swear that people don't actually play games to have fun with how restrictive most people play.

[Festinger]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

Thats a nightmare LoR restriction only

Don't tell me, help me convince them.

[WARLOCKE]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

It's not about changing playstyles. It's about the fact that trin only works as a one trick pony anymore. Which is EV.

Instead of two trick godmode pre-nerf? EV is still busted as hek. Be thankful it wasnt taken from you......yet.

[WARLOCKE]

55 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

So what you're saying is you want her to be more like Oberon? because I have yet to see a suggested Trinity rework by the community that somehow keeps her support yet more engaging. Trinity is a pure support and no incarnation of a pure support will appeal to anyone that doesn't like pure supports. In nearly every online game where there are the 3 main roles that I have played: healers/supports are generally the least played no matter how engaging.

While I'm not saying EV doesn't need a look at, it is functionally doing what its intended to do which is to make using abilities easier and that's not a bad thing as a support role. What really needs to be changed is that Trinity shouldn't be benefiting as much from the use of her own ability (in terms of energy regeneration) to then support her to use it more. Secondly, Trinity in her current form could be more engaging simply in the form of a game wide damage overhaul and a boost to the base survivability of most of the frames (this would actually help all the frames in viability). In endgame, death becomes an all or nothing game leaving healing even from Trinity being useless which is why the damage mitigations/avoidance was a bigger deal than actual healing. So if we could actually get to a point where we aren't dying instantly we can actually use her powers to heal and support.

As far as the OP goes I applaud moving outside the box because people should be more open minded. I could swear that people don't actually play games to have fun with how restrictive most people play.

She is also one of the best tanks a with link build. The more you know, and all that.

[(PSN)skydrive]

What got nerfed more though, Trinity, or Synoid Gammacor?

The nerf to Trinity did kind of make sense, just not for usage in Raids... but don't need Trinity in them... just a "need" there.

As for the nerf to the Synoid Gammacor... well... I don't think making it into a Glaxion that doesn't even freeze enemies makes sense, I'd rather it be a Synapse with the Atomos being the Amprex. More direct damage while being ammo efficient, but less mass DPS.

[WARLOCKE]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)skydrive said:

What got nerfed more though, Trinity, or Synoid Gammacor?

The nerf to Trinity did kind of make sense, just not for usage in Raids... but don't need Trinity in them... just a "need" there.

As for the nerf to the Synoid Gammacor... well... I don't think making it into a Glaxion that doesn't even freeze enemies makes sense, I'd rather it be a Synapse with the Atomos being the Amprex. More direct damage while being ammo efficient, but less mass DPS.

Most players know that the nerf to grammarcore was overboard. Thankfully in recent times DE has shown ALOT more restraint when nerfing things.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

10 hours ago, WARLOCKE said:

Most players know that the nerf to grammarcore was overboard. Thankfully in recent times DE has shown ALOT more restraint when nerfing things.

im fine with Gammacore nerf about the energy used to gave, still atm would be pointless as Zenurik and Arcane Energize are even more OP compared on how Gamma pre-nerf used to be

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

14 hours ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Gee, that's a nice Tonkor you got there.

Lol

[ZodiacShinryu]

12 hours ago, WARLOCKE said:

She is also one of the best tanks a with link build. The more you know, and all that.

I am not sure why having a durable option makes her any less a support. People use the term "tank" in warframe and I just don't see it most the time. A tanks job is to protect allies, distract the enemy and mitigate the damage thereby allowing the less durable but powerful allies to attack/support without concern. But there are very few abilities in the game that actually "draw attention" to have a true tank. Nyx's Absorb is the only ability that comes to my mind that even does this role on a noticeable scale. While there is a small scale distraction based on proximity to the enemy it is also only because enemies tend to attack the closest target. As such to "tank" in warframe means to hold quite a strict positioning so that the person you want taking damage is the only target in sight. Link mitigates damage, yes, however Link isn't going to save <insert squishy frame> from dying on its own. So while Trinity is durable, I wouldn't say she is a tank especially where abilities like Mesa's Shattershield exist doing the same thing. Imo tanks don't truly exist in warframe as many roles have access to a mitigation skill (remember when Ember had Overheat, she was still doing her old damage but still became nigh unkillable).

Besides that, healers in general are always one of the most durable roles especially if they have damage options. If you can't kill a healer before they heal and they can manage their resources then you have no hope of winning even if the healer has no mitigations. You can put a healer against thee tankiest tank (assuming that they have limited or no ways to heal themselves) and the healer can still deal damage (such as in warframe) and as long as the previous statement holds true the healer will win. In short, if you can survive fine without the mitigations from Link then Trinity can survive just fine with her healing options alone.

TLDR; Durability isn't the sole descriptor of a "tank"

[(PSN)bonateIIo]

8 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I am not sure why having a durable option makes her any less a support. People use the term "tank" in warframe and I just don't see it most the time. A tanks job is to protect allies, distract the enemy and mitigate the damage thereby allowing the less durable but powerful allies to attack/support without concern. But there are very few abilities in the game that actually "draw attention" to have a true tank. Nyx's Absorb is the only ability that comes to my mind that even does this role on a noticeable scale. While there is a small scale distraction based on proximity to the enemy it is also only because enemies tend to attack the closest target. As such to "tank" in warframe means to hold quite a strict positioning so that the person you want taking damage is the only target in sight. Link mitigates damage, yes, however Link isn't going to save <insert squishy frame> from dying on its own. So while Trinity is durable, I wouldn't say she is a tank especially where abilities like Mesa's Shattershield exist doing the same thing. Imo tanks don't truly exist in warframe as many roles have access to a mitigation skill (remember when Ember had Overheat, she was still doing her old damage but still became nigh unkillable).

Besides that, healers in general are always one of the most durable roles especially if they have damage options. If you can't kill a healer before they heal and they can manage their resources then you have no hope of winning even if the healer has no mitigations. You can put a healer against thee tankiest tank (assuming that they have limited or no ways to heal themselves) and the healer can still deal damage (such as in warframe) and as long as the previous statement holds true the healer will win. In short, if you can survive fine without the mitigations from Link then Trinity can survive just fine with her healing options alone.

TLDR; Durability isn't the sole descriptor of a "tank"

This game has only 2 true tanks that come to my mind, they are Atlas and Nekros and that is untill lvl 150-200 didn't try farther than that cause its too difficult to actually play at those lvls and not abuse some mechanics. Warframe has few abilities that could be Tanking abilities, though sadly the only thing they do is either resist the damage or absorb and only on the caster.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

16 hours ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

I see nerfs (or reworks) as a chance to change your playstile a bit, guess a lot of people used to eat way too much cheese on this game ^^

40min.. and im out

[Rakosta_Kai]

13 hours ago, (PS4)skydrive said:

What got nerfed more though, Trinity, or Synoid Gammacor?

Quantity? Trinity, hands down.

Severity? Gammacor. It used to be formidable mid range conditional DPS with enough sustainability to benefit from it's proc. Now it's an ammo hose that requires many trade-offs to fulfill it's proc function.

I'm glad they changed the numbers on Trin's last round of changes because the initial set was just downright punitive. It wasn't much of a guess that something was coming, at some point, though given the last few changes she received.

Gammacor is boned for regular use to me at this point. If DE had just tweaked the DPS  down a bit and let it keep it's sustainability, it would have remained a competitive option without being OP... Shame too, as it's a unique weapon. 

[WARLOCKE]

40 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I am not sure why having a durable option makes her any less a support. People use the term "tank" in warframe and I just don't see it most the time. A tanks job is to protect allies, distract the enemy and mitigate the damage thereby allowing the less durable but powerful allies to attack/support without concern. But there are very few abilities in the game that actually "draw attention" to have a true tank. Nyx's Absorb is the only ability that comes to my mind that even does this role on a noticeable scale. While there is a small scale distraction based on proximity to the enemy it is also only because enemies tend to attack the closest target. As such to "tank" in warframe means to hold quite a strict positioning so that the person you want taking damage is the only target in sight. Link mitigates damage, yes, however Link isn't going to save <insert squishy frame> from dying on its own. So while Trinity is durable, I wouldn't say she is a tank especially where abilities like Mesa's Shattershield exist doing the same thing. Imo tanks don't truly exist in warframe as many roles have access to a mitigation skill (remember when Ember had Overheat, she was still doing her old damage but still became nigh unkillable).

Besides that, healers in general are always one of the most durable roles especially if they have damage options. If you can't kill a healer before they heal and they can manage their resources then you have no hope of winning even if the healer has no mitigations. You can put a healer against thee tankiest tank (assuming that they have limited or no ways to heal themselves) and the healer can still deal damage (such as in warframe) and as long as the previous statement holds true the healer will win. In short, if you can survive fine without the mitigations from Link then Trinity can survive just fine with her healing options alone.

TLDR; Durability isn't the sole descriptor of a "tank"

It is in warframe where no taunting exists. And why is it a problem? Support should be fragile. Balance. But thats the least of trinitys issues. And if energy vampire gets fixed I would probably care less about link.

[Oranji]

16 hours ago, (XB1)Woofsie said:

Oberon is finally a competitive healer.

April 1 was 2 months ago. It's almost July.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

46 minutes ago, Oranji said:

April 1 was 2 months ago. It's almost July.

Yh tried him in a LoR a few days ago, hes ult is decent for cc but hes healing drains tons of energy and is good for nothing

[EthosP]

17 hours ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

I see nerfs (or reworks) as a chance to change your playstile a bit, guess a lot of people used to eat way too much cheese on this game ^^

If someone likes playing a support class, like Trinity, they should completely abandon their preference for something they don't enjoy playing?

I thought the idea with Warframe was play what you want/like. The argument "get over it, play something else" isn't a very good one. I'm glad that you've gotten the chance to change your playstyle with the recent changes and you're finding that enjoyable. Some people will not. That is the most difficult part about balancing. You're not going to please everyone.

[ComfyOlivia]

18 hours ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

I see nerfs (or reworks) as a chance to change your playstile a bit, guess a lot of people used to eat way too much cheese on this game ^^

Well played. Good raid.

 

Here's the thing: nerfs, reworks, and even buffs have the chance of not being positive changes. Some even have the chance of being both positive and negative aspects.

The Trinity nerf is one that, I believe, had both positive and negative impacts.

The damage mitigation at 99% with the press of a button was indeed silly. It needed to be bumped down a bit to fit in the game.

However, you need to understand something. Trinity is still capable of providing about 3/4ths of the mitigation she used to. It simply doesn't address the main issue at hand. The fact that in most very late game missions, if you don't have crazy damage mitigation or you aren't CCing like crazy, you're dead.

With the amount of Nekroses you had and with all of those very top tier weapons, I'd be suprised if you had any huge problems. It just shows other issues with the game. To pass the mission without a Trinity, you Dese and Terrify a bunch. If anything, you'd probably have a much easier time with 6 Nekroses than with 6 Trins. With Dese, you get all the energy and health you need. Add in the top tier weapons and the Massive CC ball of 6 Nekroses and anything that does make it close enough to attack you is dead immediately. Now, try 6 Nekroses on Nightmare LoR (which is what most people complaining about the mitigation nerf were referencing). The difference between the Jordas raid and LoR is that pretty much everything can and will shoot at you in LoR. Nekros's terrify doesn't have a long range.

The specifics don't really matter though. It all just points out a huge flaw in the game. The fact that you have to cheese in some form or fashion to complete these late game missions. You're dead otherwise.

That's my rant on that. I feel as though the mitigation was silly, but now it just falls on other frames to perform greater amounts of cheese to match Trin. 

Here's the part where I talk about how they made a negative change.

The flat 50 meter range.

Here's the reality: Trinity's blessing is still almost just as broken as it was before within that 50 meter range. Outside of that, it simply doesn't exist.

Before I continue, please understand that I'm NOT saying that she should have a infinite range heal that's equally effective across the entire match. Now I will continue.

The problem with this range thing is that it hasn't made her less effective. She's still equally as effective within that range. What it has made her, is less usable and more of a chore to use.

This is in a game where literally half a second can mean an entire health bar. I'm told I probably play one of the best healer Trinitis almost every time I bring her out (this was up until the nerf). Why? Because I micro-manage the S#&amp;&#036; out of my team by watching their health bars closely and very occasionally shooting. And even when I do that people can drop like flies because of how quickly your health can drop.

Now I would have to jump across an entire room to support someone. By time I get close enough, they're probably already dead. 

Seeing a trend with Blessing yet? It's either wholly underpowered and useless or completely overpowered.

Here's what I suggest and what I hope people would honestly push more to make the ability useful again past those 50 meters:

Raise the limit to a Base 150 meters and allow it to change with range mods. Alongside this, have the ability fully heal and provide mitigation up to a base 50 meters with percentage based incriments that lower the percentages of both healing and mitigation. Once it reaches that base 150 meters, it drops off with both healing and mitigation sitting at 0%.

So, say you have 100% range on your Trinity. Your max Blessing Range is 150 meters. Your max power blessing range is 50. Every 25 meters past that 50, you lose 20% of the heal and 15% of the mitigation. It would look like this:

0-50m - 100% Heal, 75% Mitigation

50-75m - 80% Heal, 60% Mitigation

75-100m - 60% Heal, 45% Mitigation

100-125m - 40% Heal, 30% Mitigation

125-150m - 20% Heal, 15% Mitigation

150m+ - 0% Heal, 0% Mitigation

 

Basically, the point is that the Maximum effect range  (which is base 50) is a third of the total effective max (which is base 150). 

So, say your total effective, with range mods, is 200 meters. A third of 200 is 66. So, your max effect is 66.

Then, incriment it a few times so there are even percentages between the maximum effect and the total effective range. Since it takes 6 stages for effectiveness to be at zero, you're going to have 6 incriments that depend on your range.

0-66m - 100% Heal, 75% Mitigation

66-99.5m - 80% Heal, 60% Mitigation

99.5-133m - 60% Heal, 45% Mitigation

133-166.5m - 40% Heal, 30% Mitigation

166.5-200m - 20% Heal, 15% Mitigation

200m+ - 0% Heal, 0% Mitigation

Follow the same formula, and it works out.

(Edit: It is very theoretical and such, so anything from the base ranges to how quickly the effectiveness of the heal and mitigation tapers off is up for changing. I say this because with enough range mods, a base 150m effective range could easily reach up to 350m, which is further than what it should be.)

 

Honestly, though, I wish they'd rework Blessing to be a more active ability that isn't so much a "Press 4 and things are immediately healed". I feel like Warframe would benefit more from something that allows a more continuous heal. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by CoRRh

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

35 minutes ago, EthosP said:

If someone likes playing a support class, like Trinity, they should completely abandon their preference for something they don't enjoy playing?

I thought the idea with Warframe was play what you want/like. The argument "get over it, play something else" isn't a very good one. I'm glad that you've gotten the chance to change your playstyle with the recent changes and you're finding that enjoyable. Some people will not. That is the most difficult part about balancing. You're not going to please everyone.

My point is just that you could run however do you prefer.. no need to get stick to other people methods or using broken mechanics, just turn on the brain and go in with people smart enough to make it a good game FOR REAL

[MechaTails]

I don't think you had enough Tonkor in that mission, next time strap 3 of them to each arm, on your legs, hold one with your mouth, and put one in your butt so you can rocket jump

[(XBOX)BroaderSaucer]

5 minutes ago, MechaTails said:

I don't think you had enough Tonkor in that mission, next time strap 3 of them to each arm, on your legs, hold one with your mouth, and put one in your butt so you can rocket jump

nonono, you need to replace your entire warframe with an amalgamation of tonkors. minimum 500 tonkors or else you wont be able to survive.