Warframe's pressure points (Updated U19)

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Warframe has reached a Critical Point in its lifetime where it has started to lose its path... Many problems have started to arise from this... a List of them Follows:

This Spoiler is the original part of the post, Putting them in spoilers to cut down on size and divide the post into its respective sections.

Spoiler

- Many of the game mechanics that have been added in with later content updates clash heavily with older content, this causes major problems for continuity, progression and the "fun" factor. I.E. Bombards were a great addition to Grineer Ranks, their explosive homing weapons provided an interesting challenge to players, However, Sortie gave us level 100 bombards whos explosive weaponry does not scale properly with level and deal instantly lethal damage to any warframe.

- The game has become extremely grind heavy due to an over-abundance of material types, reliance on poor RNG drop rates, prime parts, research materials such as Nitain, ect. 

- Survival and Intercept are no longer what they were originally intended to be, Survival is only targeted for 20 or 40 minutes to get the C cycle reward, Intercept is the same for 4, 8, 12 rounds. 

- The Challenge increases within the game are artificial, raising Health, Armor, Damage Resistance, and Damage is a lazy way to increases difficulty. There are dozens of other ways, and Artificial difficulty increases are frowned upon by many portions of the game industry and gamers. It is a bad way to provide a "challenge" because the gameplay does not change, just the stats.

- The capture targets in capture missions are immune to all tenno powers and many status procs, yet the big bad bosses on each of the planets are not? This is a great example of difficulty inflation as well as a lack of lore continuity. 

- Sorties have lost their "fun" factor due to facing an onslaught of lvl 100 enemies to be rewarded with a pack of 25(50) fusion cores 90% of the time, as well as the artificial difficulty inflation does no provide a challenge, as an ash proceeds to 1 shot an entire room. (continues to build onto my 1400+ Gold R5 Fusion Cores, and all 10R Mods maxed)

- The over reliance on Draco and other "loot caves" has brought the game to a standstill... Taxiing and Draco are the majority of what occurs in the game now because players refuse to work their way through the map or level gear through game play. (Addition) With the removal of Draco, this has prompted many complains/quits and players to simply find a new Draco.... Draco is not a place anymore... its a system, an idea... an icon... you cant kill an icon by removing it. Try again, please.

- Much of the new content released has started to show age and lackluster creativity. For example, Lunaro doesn't fit the lore, nor the game style that warframe has provided in the past.

- Adding Lunaro to warframe was like Bungie adding Sparrow Racing to Destiny... Its unnecessary and doesn't fit the lore of the game. It feels like grasping at straws to get as much content out as possible even if it doesn't work.

- Content that was hyped, talked about and promised back in update 16(U16), is the same content promised for update 19(U19) and has yet to release... The delays are starting to become astounding. (Addition) Update 19 has been released, part 1 of it at least, after 6 extra months, and its still not polished.

- Everything receives a Nerf, and usually is the wrong thing. Rathuum at the time of the release was great, it was a difficult challenge that many people beat quickly, even with the difficulty. But, do to the amount of players saying it was too difficult, it received a nerf... There is something to be said about 'bettering oneself through challenge'... But then Ash can still clear a room with his eyes closed and not take a single point of damage.

- You give great attention to the players calling something too difficult or too challenging... But you fail to see the players asking for more difficulty and more challenge.

- Getting Prime parts from the derelict is nearly impossible. On the flip side, If it wasn't for prime parts and corrupted mods, the Derelict would be a waste of space. (Addition) Getting prime parts from the Derelict now actually is impossible, and making keys for it is 2-3x more difficult. The Usefulness of the Derelict has reached an all time low.

- Cheese and Laziness is rewarded more then hard work... There are no rewards for those who challenge themselves, therefore; there is no reason to challenge yourself... Which in turn makes the game very repetitive and lacking replayability. While the randomly generated maps help to increases variation in the gameplay, the repetitive nature of the mission types do not.

- The Toxic players who, "quit a run because they don't like trinities"... "or leave a raid because someone died".... are dismissed as acceptable behaviors. They make the game more difficult for the players trying to complete something when they leave. The host leaves because of some random reason(good or bad) while in the middle of a fight or in the middle of a spy vault, after host migration you are stuck standing still for a short moment when is more than enough time to be shot down or hit by a vault laser. Enemies and objectives are scaled for 4 players, when 1 player leaves, the mission and enemies do not scale down to 3 even when there are only 3 players left, now those 3 are facing the difficulty of 4. (Addition) With the new Void system, Trolling has become a serious problem, especially to lower ranked teams... and its only day 2.

- Lives used to have value, when you were allotted 4 lives per warframe each day, dieing 4 times meant you couldn't play that frame unless you paid for more lives. Now you get 4 lives per mission for any frame. Revives have lost their value, and players will even ask you to not revive them so they can get their sentinel back, this can be detrimental to the mission as well. 

- Baro is still a joke, his items are very often items that have already cycled through 3 or 4 times. Very rarely is something new, and its usually cosmetic. Of course there is a limited number of mods, but its not hard to come up with new ideas that are not mods, weapons or skins. Also, it seems that when Baro is on the Murcury(lowest level relay), he as a better supply of items, however, when he is on Pluto, his items are all recycled.

- Mastery Rank has lost its meaning.... With Draco Spamming and Darvo deals, obtaining weapons/frames and maxing them is so easy, obtaining a high MR is cake, so MR has no purpose anymore. Not too long ago, Darvo was selling the Limbo warframe... A warframe that is quest only.

- Archwing is an interesting concept, but badly executed. It lacks a good amount of mods, it only consists of the basic mods that warframes, sentinels and kubrows all have. They lack the interesting mods such as nightmare and corrupted type mods. (Addition) The new Archwing system is now actually Worse due to Update 19, the new game modes are not what they were hyped up to be and the controls and camera placement add to the headache.

- Uranus maps, where the ability to use archwing and regular warframes interchangeably, is a good concept. What hurts it is when the archwing is underwater and it is painfully slow and cannot use its afterburners. There are Underwater Jet Pack (swimming as fast as olympic swimmers) that are faster than archwing.

-------------------------Post Update 19 Part 1 Review (as of now)-----------------------  Below my contain U19 spoilers

Spoiler

Update 19 fails to introduce any new mechanics to Warframe that actually work.

---The new 6 Axis Control for archwing is Highly disorientating, Combined with the placement of the camera way too close to the back of the archwing, Archwing is actually worse than it was before. The new game modes Pursuit and Rush are no better. 

Spoiler

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/272848615806238345/ECDEA1CF8F87ADCAFF486D11EB59F1E9277F628F/[/img]

-------Pursuit, chasing down a Grineer ship, destroying parts of it to slowly take it down all while fending off other enemies, missiles and turrets... There is no tutorial, no indication where to shoot and when you do finally stop it, 90% of your bullets pass cleanly through the side of it and have no effect (Bad hit reg).

-------As for Rush, it was advertised as a mission where you chase down corpus transports, and the more you destroy, the better the reward, First off... what constitutes a good reward in archwing? Secondly, you are traveling through a gauntlet of broken ships pathways full of an over abundance of stasis mines that are more annoying then many give them credit for, and to top it all off, you have to use the new movement system which is more likely to ram you into the nearest wall. On top of all that, there are only 3 targets and they don't move. This is an over glorified capture mission(without the actual 'press x to capture') for archwing.

--- The new Void Tears' are more used to foster 'team play' into the game, they do not actually bring anything new to the table, in fact they actually make getting void parts take less time in some cases. Most times, the difficulty of the enemies does not match the enemies that you are running the mission around... i can already see a huge amount of trolling going to be starting because of that. And you Fail the mission if you Fail to seal the tear. In addition, the items needed to seal the tear that drop of enemies don't interact with the tear properly sometimes requiring 2 or 3 passes to actually work. The Reward chances are no better than they were before (already gotten 2 forma BPs and a braton prime stock (like i need more of those). Will test more when i get the Void Segment for the liset. 

--- The original Void had its "drop % chance" removed to better equalize all the drop rates (which we all knew was bogus anyway... 40 lex prime barrels later)... The implementation of relics shows the chances... and once again, the drop rates are skewed in favor of older items. 

--- Void Traces, yet ANOTHER resource to farm. 

--- The Junctions, while on paper look good, are nothing more than a progression blocker for newer players and don't offer any useful rewards to veteran players. I fail to see the real use of them.

--- I have not gotten the kavats or new archwing/weapons yet, i will comment on those at a later time. 

--- The New solar map looks great, i love the dynamic appearance and movement through the system, feels like a small throw back to the original design.

--- Don't really feel any need to comment on the new market, since it still serves the same purpose and was simply an appearance overhaul.  I Take it back, the new Market system hides Blueprints behind more buttons, the drop down menu doesn't look like a drop down menu, and overall, its more congested than it used to be.

--- There is an abundance of changes to conclave and PVP... I really don't care about them... But the amount of fixes that are needed for pve continue to pile up.

--- Still lacks and kind of rewarding incentives for veteran players... 

--- As of Update 19, the removal of Deception has caused 3 of the kurias to be seemingly unobtainable.

--- You can now get stuck under the stairs in the orbiter. 

Spoiler

--- The Remixing of the starchart and addition of junction missions has resulted in literal progression stoppers. Some missions are impossible to complete, and others force difficult missions on very low players. vv

Spoiler

Progression stoppers pulled from this thread - credit goes to him. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/670519-new-player-experience-feedback-including-u19/

--- On top of this, Certain Junction Missions so not work, as an example, Jupiter's Junction requiring you to successfully complete all 3 vaults on a jupitor spy mission does no unlock upon completing it.

 

Overall, Update 19 Part 1 is a solid attempt at an update to breath new life into warframe, but it strikes out.... The content feels untested or just simply condensed and reskined content we already had. I hope part 2 will bring something better...

 

As someone who started playing this game back in U6 and a founder, as well as someone who completed college with a Bachelor degree in Game Development, I am sorry to say that this game has become bloated and has started to fall apart at the seams. 

It seems that once it became more mainstream and more "content" started to release, the attention to continuity and polish started to go away. The rush for more and more content has become very apparent over the last year, and the lack of polish has as well... Maintaining the belief that the game is constantly in beta is ok, but using it as an excuse to forgo polish isn't. "Perpetual beta (or ‘banana principle’) is the keeping of software or a system at the beta development stage for an extended or indefinite period of time. It is often used by developers when they continue to release new features that might not be fully tested." 

For example, Explosions STILL do not scale properly because you can still take 5k damage from a bombard rocket that hit a wall 30 feet away because its a level 100 and 30 feet reduces the damage by 100, rather than the 4000 that it should.

I'm sad to see this game go down hill so hard, but it has come to the point where a critical decision needs to be made.... Continue to make a game that's stitched together like a quilt made from 100s of random materials? Or, take a step back from releasing an overwhelming amount of new content and focus on adding polish and fixing the issues that have presented themselves? Its not realistically feasible to do both.

Warframe has lost the Luster and Originality that it was first created with... this is upsetting. 

 

 

This list may not be complete... if you have things you would like me to add, please feel free to post, i read through most of the posts. Any additional Points and More support is always appreciated... First goal is to get the development staffs attention.

If the developers would like some ideas on how to fix different things, feel free to read through some of the posts or contact me directly, i will converse with my friends and we could work out a system you could take inspiration from to progress development. 

Thank you to all who read and respond.

Edited July 10, 2016 by PureIcarus
Added my review of Update 19 Part 1 (7/8/16) Added Additional Spoiler Tag to older sections to cut back on size (7/8/16) Removed Bit about bring a repost, its changed enough to not be one (7/10/16)

[Big_Gunz]

per 20min. survival or every forth reward in Intercept/Defense gets old cause it's too predictable.

[(PSN)Nyxn607]

I would have waited until all of u19 released to post this, as it is supposed to address a few of the issues you have listed.  I agree with some of it, however from my point of view I do not see many of issues you do.  I have not been around near as long, but from the sounds of it you need to take a break or get creative.  By creative I mean, find a way to make the game interesting to you.  There are only so many ways the devs can make the game interesting without losing focus on the end goal.  They are doing what they can to fix the issues as slow as it may be. 

The devs are putting out new content at the request of veterans and other players.  In doing so they are unable to focus on the scaling and other issues that need to be addressed.  In my eyes you either want new content or want the issues to be fixed.  As an anology that is commonly used, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[InoxMaximus]

Very good points, that we talked about 3 years now but you meet on deaf ears.

[TARINunit9]

There's a lot of points I just straight-up don't even understand where you're coming from

The revive-to-get-my-Sentinel-back existed back in the previous lives system too. You act like the current lives system has no penalty for death, but it's actually an improvement on the alternative, both as a penalty system and as a way to give players second chances. Either you had so many frames that dieing once or twice had literally zero penalty whatsoever, or you were running raids and found yourself unable to try again after a failure (because yes, people actually used to fail raids) because now your chosen battlefield role has no more revives. Also the "pay plat for more revives" was a terrible beginner's trap that the dev team regrets ever implementing

You bemoan Archwing for not having enough content literally less than a week before Archwing is about to get more content. Also you act like Archwing should already have Corrupted mods, when normal Corrupted mods took a full 10 Updates to exist while Archwing has only been out for three Updates

If you think Cap Targets being immune to basically everything was bad, you obviously weren't paying attention to the old Cap Targets because they were even worse: by being immune to NOTHING and vulnerable to EVERYTHING they served no purpose whatsoever. Not in the lore, not in the gameplay. They were easier than Exterminate and shorter than Raid/Deception. They had nowhere to go but up

But this next point, I know very well where you're coming from... and also why you're, sadly, just not right. For the grindy resource stuff like Nitain, that's actually an attempt to slow you down. Not players in general, you specifically. Yes, you, Mr. Purel. See, DE is at an impasse. When you've been playing the game for nearly 4 years like you have, you need to take something into consideration: you are no longer DE's primary target audience

DE makes and gears content primarily towards players MR5 thru MR15. Once you hit the second-highest MR possible, the game is rapidly running out of content for you and DE very well knows it. They are dedicated to creating more max-mastery content on occasion -- Nightmare Raids, for example -- but DE would very much rather you take a break and come back next time there's an event or new weapons so they can work through their backlog

The reason for this is simple: it takes much longer to create content for you, and you will burn through it in a matter of hours. That's the reason Jordas Precept had so much arbitrary waiting for pherliac, argon, and then more pherliac. And it's the reason that Nitain, Argon, and thousands of Cryotic are now the norm for new content: it slows you down

Edited July 3, 2016 by TARINunit9

[Stratego89]

Backed the original thread, backing this one too. Every single point is valid and sound. Things need to change. Soon.

[Redthirst]

While I agree that Warframe has a ton of issues(not really hard to agree here), lets not pretend like it was better in the past. Right now we have large amount of unpolished content. In the past, we had a small amount of unpolished content. I know that people like to glorify the past, but lets remove our rose-tinted glasses and be real - Warframe in the past was an unpolished mess without a lot to do. Current game isn't perfect by any means, but it's better than it used to be.

Lunaro doesn't make sense according to lore? What lore? Lore that is constantly changed and lacks coherency? I would like you to point out where in the lore do you see anything that contradicts Lunaro?

Derelicts are indeed pretty hard to farm for Prime parts, but that's Warframe. The part about Derelicts making no sense if you take away Corrupted mods is nonsense. Yeah, of course it will be useless. If you take Prime parts from Void it will also be useless. Just how Dojo would be useless without clan research.

Mastery rank was always meaningless.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

3 hours ago, Redthirst said:

While I agree that Warframe has a ton of issues(not really hard to agree here), lets not pretend like it was better in the past. Right now we have large amount of unpolished content. In the past, we had a small amount of unpolished content. I know that people like to glorify the past, but lets remove our rose-tinted glasses and be real - Warframe in the past was an unpolished mess without a lot to do. Current game isn't perfect by any means, but it's better than it used to be.

I think people like the OP (and myself) expected DE to polish content back when there wasn't a ton of it. Instead, we keep getting new unpolished things and the idea of it all ever fitting together seems less likely.

Do you know what Invasions, the Derelict, Dark Sectors, and Nightmare missions have in common? I've resigned myself to not asking for changes to them because I think DE would create a new system before they fix any of those things.

[Thrymm]

That's a heck of a compilation, and it does a nice job of covering a great many of the issues that need to be addressed with this game.  I don't think it's 100% accurate, though, I'll try to offer specifics:

 

Difficulty "gimmicks" are mentioned, and I wholeheartedly agree with the assertion that they are a lazy approach.  In the same vein, the broken scaling mechanics are mentioned as sorties plunk you right into the very crux of the problem.  At a later time, though, the fun factor being lost from sorties is mentioned as being an issue of loot table.  I think it's more coherent to lump them all together. 

I would assert that the sorties are a treatise of all that is wrong with PvE warframe.  You could literally write a report about what's wrong with this game and it'd be one word long: sorties.  Sorties showcase broken scaling, imbalanced weapons and frame, garbage RNG in an overly bloated loot table, gimmicky fake difficulty, and a level range that is an end result of powercreep that strayed from the original balance points.  Literally the five talking points most seen in discussions.

I disagree with the "everything was nerfed" mentality, pretty much in it's entirety.  Sometimes, it just needs to happen.  Rathum is a place that this is the case.  There is no added difficulty and no skill barrier to overcome when an enemy can effectively one shot you(you griped about 1 shot bombards in relation to level 100 sortie bombards).  A handful of the Rathum contestants could do exactly this.  A handful of others could kill you more quickly than a player could reasonably be expected to react.  It needed difficulty adjustments because of this.  Was it still doable?  Sure, but it wasn't fun.

Cheese gets talked about as not only encouraged but promoted, and yet "nerf everything", which didn't even sort of happen, is a bad thing?  I think not.  Some of the very elements that have been nerfed recently where the very essence of cheese.  Clearly, there is some kind of paradox there.

And that's the overall flavor that I disagree with here.  You can't get rid of cheese without reducing the power of something.  You can't make everything immune to it without just making gimmicks.  You can't reduce the scaling modifiers without making scaling modifier reductions(nerfs).  You can't just up all of the frame powers to Trinity/Ash's Bladestorm(which you certainly hint at being overpowered, ergo need a nerf.  so much for everything getting nerfed) levels instead of nerfing them, nor all of the weapons to Tonkor levels.  It certainly can't be done while simultaneously disagreeing with scaling and gimmick items.  From a fun perspective, you can't have players just arbitrarily killed, but then cry foul when the developers stop doing it(by nerfing things like Rathum).

 

I agree with plenty of what's stated(especially in regards to polish on existing content).  I'm always taken aback by the almost irrational fear of power shifts(nerfs, usually) in a game, though, and that's why I felt that aspect needed some fleshing out.  Polish can't happen until the outliers are smoothed in, and some of those outliers are going to be too high.

[Mr.Lube]

Warframe's main problem in my eyes is the over reliance on content updates that provide us with new toys to play with, rather than giving the game more depth. Warframe is a classic example of Style over Substance, and Quantity over Quality. DE is Zack Snyder, and Warframe is Batman v Superman. Both look fantastic and have really cool moments, but lack depth and feel like a grind.

Warframe is like a sandbox game, take Garry's Mod for example. You spawn in a horde of enemies and blow them up with a rocket launcher, it's fun. But it gets old and you want something different, so you download a new mod pack from the workshop that gives you a bunch of cool new weapons and you're having fun again. But that gets old aswell because you are essentially doing the same thing you got bored of in the first place. You download some new maps to see if that helps, and it doesn't for the exact same reason. All you do is change the look, but it doesn't make a difference.

The only way you will have fun with that game again is if it gives you more than what you already have, and that isn't referring to new toys. People say that Warframe has come so far in the past 3 years. That statement is laughably untrue. The game looks a lot prettier, has a ton of new weapons, Warframes, and tilesets. But it hasn't changed a bit.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

On 7/3/2016 at 3:50 AM, Stratego89 said:

Backed the original thread, backing this one too. Every single point is valid and sound. Things need to change. Soon.

Thank you, the more support and backing this thread gets, the more chances for it to be noticed.

On 7/3/2016 at 7:12 AM, Redthirst said:

While I agree that Warframe has a ton of issues(not really hard to agree here), lets not pretend like it was better in the past. Right now we have large amount of unpolished content. In the past, we had a small amount of unpolished content. I know that people like to glorify the past, but lets remove our rose-tinted glasses and be real - Warframe in the past was an unpolished mess without a lot to do. Current game isn't perfect by any means, but it's better than it used to be.

Lunaro doesn't make sense according to lore? What lore? Lore that is constantly changed and lacks coherency? I would like you to point out where in the lore do you see anything that contradicts Lunaro?

Derelicts are indeed pretty hard to farm for Prime parts, but that's Warframe. The part about Derelicts making no sense if you take away Corrupted mods is nonsense. Yeah, of course it will be useless. If you take Prime parts from Void it will also be useless. Just how Dojo would be useless without clan research.

Mastery rank was always meaningless.

Back when warframe was simple, update 6-10 range, there was a lot less content to complain about. By that reasoning, yes, warframe in the past was better. 

As for Lunaro not following the lore.... the Solar System is on fire, Grineer and Corups at each others throats, the Infestation is eating people, Hek and Alad V are hunting Tenno... and what are the tenno doing?... playing lacrosse?.... Its a war, and we are playing sports.

As for Derelicts, any game that makes you have to run something repeatedly for the VERY small chance at a reward is going through a process that most MMOs and many developers look down upon. They are Artificially lengthening the game by forcing grind. You know the definition of insanity, im sure... thats what it is. Atleast in the void you have a higher chance to get weapon/frame parts than useless items... and in the Dojo, research is guaranteed, its not an RNG chance to fail or something.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

On 7/3/2016 at 2:54 AM, (PS4)Nyxn607 said:

I would have waited until all of u19 released to post this, as it is supposed to address a few of the issues you have listed.  I agree with some of it, however from my point of view I do not see many of issues you do.  I have not been around near as long, but from the sounds of it you need to take a break or get creative.  By creative I mean, find a way to make the game interesting to you.  There are only so many ways the devs can make the game interesting without losing focus on the end goal.  They are doing what they can to fix the issues as slow as it may be. 

The devs are putting out new content at the request of veterans and other players.  In doing so they are unable to focus on the scaling and other issues that need to be addressed.  In my eyes you either want new content or want the issues to be fixed.  As an anology that is commonly used, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

The Theory that they will address 70% of the issues with U19 has been stated before... but i ask you this... How will they address them? I can tell you... With more content, unpolished, unfinished and likely not better content. You cant fix everything with a band-aid. I mention the Banana Principal in my Opening post, the idea behind a Perpetual Beta is so that developers can release unfinished and unpolished content and say "its in a beta state" and people accept it. A Banana looks solid on the outside, but its squishy on the inside. Warframe looks amazing from the outside, but on the inside, its lacking in polish and filled to the brim with content that does not work well together, nor does much of it fit with the game.

[Redthirst]

22 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Thank you, the more support and backing this thread gets, the more chances for it to be noticed.

Back when warframe was simple, update 6-10 range, there was a lot less content to complain about. By that reasoning, yes, warframe in the past was better. 

As for Lunaro not following the lore.... the Solar System is on fire, Grineer and Corups at each others throats, the Infestation is eating people, Hek and Alad V are hunting Tenno... and what are the tenno doing?... playing lacrosse?.... Its a war, and we are playing sports.

As for Derelicts, any game that makes you have to run something repeatedly for the VERY small chance at a reward is going through a process that most MMOs and many developers look down upon. They are Artificially lengthening the game by forcing grind. You know the definition of insanity, im sure... thats what it is. Atleast in the void you have a higher chance to get weapon/frame parts than useless items... and in the Dojo, research is guaranteed, its not an RNG chance to fail or something.

And back in the old days, that content was generally worse. I still remember those bosses that were basically normal units with some buffed stats, even using models of basic enemies.

Lunaro makes as much sense as Conclave - its main purpose is to have Tenno practice teamwork, which should theoretically help them combat all the threats in the Solar system.

I agree that grind in Derelicts are too much, but it's not the issue with Derelicts as a tileset. It's an issue, but it's not one that would call for Derelicts to be removed completely, especially since new Void system will probably unify the way you acquire all Prime parts, thus meaning that Derelicts will remain there for Corrupted mods and Nekros farming(and potentially something else, if DE feels like it).

[BlackCoMerc]

On 7/3/2016 at 3:35 AM, PureIcarus said:

Since my previous post has been closed by a certain Forum Moderator, it has been requested that I repost and chose my wording differently.... here it goes.

 

Warframe has reached a Critical Point in its lifetime where it has started to lose its path... Many problems have started to arise from this... a List of them Follows:

- Many of the game mechanics that have been added in with later content updates clash heavily with older content, this causes major problems for continuity, progression and the "fun" factor. I.E. Bombards were a great addition to Grineer Ranks, their explosive homing weapons provided an interesting challenge to players, However, Sortie gave us level 100 bombards whos explosive weaponry does not scale properly with level and deal instantly lethal damage to any warframe.

- The game has become extremely grind heavy due to an over-abundance of material types, reliance on poor RNG drop rates, prime parts, research materials such as Nitain, ect. 

- Survival and Intercept are no longer what they were originally intended to be, Survival is only targeted for 20 or 40 minutes to get the C cycle reward, Intercept is the same for 4, 8, 12 rounds. 

- The Challenge increases within the game are artificial, raising Health, Armor, Damage Resistance, and Damage is a lazy way to increases difficulty. There are dozens of other ways, and Artificial difficulty increases are frowned upon by many portions of the game industry and gamers. It is a bad way to provide a "challenge" because the gameplay does not change, just the stats.

- The capture targets in capture missions are immune to all tenno powers and many status procs, yet the big bad bosses on each of the planets are not? This is a great example of difficulty inflation as well as a lack of lore continuity. 

- Sorties have lost their "fun" factor due to facing an onslaught of lvl 100 enemies to be rewarded with a pack of 25(50) fusion cores 90% of the time, as well as the artificial difficulty inflation does no provide a challenge, as an ash proceeds to 1 shot an entire room. (continues to build onto my 1400+ Gold R5 Fusion Cores, and all 10R Mods maxed)

- The over reliance on Draco and other "loot caves" has brought the game to a standstill... Taxiing and Draco are the majority of what occurs in the game now because players refuse to work their way through the map or level gear through game play.

- Much of the new content released has started to show age and lackluster creativity. For example, Lunaro doesn't fit the lore, nor the game style that warframe has provided in the past.

- Adding Lunaro to warframe was like Bungie adding Sparrow Racing to Destiny... Its unnecessary and doesn't fit the lore of the game. It feels like grasping at straws to get as much content out as possible even if it doesn't work.

- Content that was hyped, talked about and promised back in update 16(U16), is the same content promised for update 19(U19) and has yet to release... The delays are starting to become astounding.

- Everything receives a Nerf, and usually is the wrong thing. Rathuum at the time of the release was great, it was a difficult challenge that many people beat quickly, even with the difficulty. But, do to the amount of players saying it was too difficult, it received a nerf... There is something to be said about 'bettering oneself through challenge'... But then Ash can still clear a room with his eyes closed and not take a single point of damage.

- You give great attention to the players calling something too difficult or too challenging... But you fail to see the players asking for more difficulty and more challenge.

- Getting Prime parts from the derelict is nearly impossible. On the flip side, If it wasn't for prime parts and corrupted mods, the Derelict would be a waste of space.

- Cheese and Laziness is rewarded more then hard work... There are no rewards for those who challenge themselves, therefore; there is no reason to challenge yourself... Which in turn makes the game very repetitive and lacking replayability. While the randomly generated maps help to increases variation in the gameplay, the repetitive nature of the mission types do not.

- The Toxic players who, "quit a run because they don't like trinities"... "or leave a raid because someone died".... are dismissed as acceptable behaviors. They make the game more difficult for the players trying to complete something when they leave. The host leaves because of some random reason(good or bad) while in the middle of a fight or in the middle of a spy vault, after host migration you are stuck standing still for a short moment when is more than enough time to be shot down or hit by a vault laser. Enemies and objectives are scaled for 4 players, when 1 player leaves, the mission and enemies do not scale down to 3 even when there are only 3 players left, now those 3 are facing the difficulty of 4. 

- Lives used to have value, when you were allotted 4 lives per warframe each day, dieing 4 times meant you couldn't play that frame unless you paid for more lives. Now you get 4 lives per mission for any frame. Revives have lost their value, and players will even ask you to not revive them so they can get their sentinel back, this can be detrimental to the mission as well. 

- Baro is still a joke, his items are very often items that have already cycled through 3 or 4 times. Very rarely is something new, and its usually cosmetic. Of course there is a limited number of mods, but its not hard to come up with new ideas that are not mods, weapons or skins. Also, it seems that when Baro is on the Murcury(lowest level relay), he as a better supply of items, however, when he is on Pluto, his items are all recycled.

- Mastery Rank has lost its meaning.... With Draco Spamming and Darvo deals, obtaining weapons/frames and maxing them is so easy, obtaining a high MR is cake, so MR has no purpose anymore. Not too long ago, Darvo was selling the Limbo warframe... A warframe that is quest only.

- Archwing is an interesting concept, but badly executed. It lacks a good amount of mods, it only consists of the basic mods that warframes, sentinels and kubrows all have. They lack the interesting mods such as nightmare and corrupted type mods. 

- Uranus maps, where the ability to use archwing and regular warframes interchangeably, is a good concept. What hurts it is when the archwing is underwater and it is painfully slow and cannot use its afterburners. There are Underwater Jet Pack (swimming as fast as olympic swimmers) that are faster than archwing.

Im happy to see that in a future update, atleast my 300+ T1 keys will have a use.

 

As someone who started playing this game back in U6 and a founder, as well as someone who completed college with a Bachelor degree in Game Development, I am sorry to say that this game has become bloated and has started to fall apart at the seams. 

It seems that once it became more mainstream and more "content" started to release, the attention to continuity and polish started to go away. The rush for more and more content has become very apparent over the last year, and the lack of polish has as well... Maintaining the belief that the game is constantly in beta is ok, but using it as an excuse to forgo polish isn't. "Perpetual beta (or ‘banana principle’) is the keeping of software or a system at the beta development stage for an extended or indefinite period of time. It is often used by developers when they continue to release new features that might not be fully tested." 

For example, Explosions STILL do not scale properly because you can still take 5k damage from a bombard rocket that hit a wall 30 feet away because its a level 100 and 30 feet reduces the damage by 100, rather than the 4000 that it should.

I'm sad to see this game go down hill so hard, but it has come to the point where a critical decision needs to be made.... Continue to make a game that's stitched together like a quilt made from 100s of random materials? Or, take a step back from releasing an overwhelming amount of new content and focus on adding polish and fixing the issues that have presented themselves? Its not realistically feasible to do both.

Warframe has lost the Luster and Originality that it was first created with... this is upsetting. 

 

Yes, this is a repost requested by the Forum Moderator, and yes, much of it is similar to the previous post. 

I agree with many of your points. I don't outright disagree with any.

Couple of thoughts. First - Core Fitness.

In the world of physical fitness, Core Strength matters. A strong core grants balance, and allies peripheral and other muscles to function efficiently wuthout lots of unnecessary flailing about.

In IT, a strong core, means a secure, stable backbone for your network. This allows for additional services, workstation and server upgrades, and software testing and eventually production rollouts that don't require a complete restructuring of the network every time.

Game development is no different. You need a strong core. Stable. Secure. Future proof. That core must function well, in a stable, predicts, SCALABLE, future proof fashion. Only then, can additions be added without the entire foundation crumbling beneath the weight of new mechanics.

Warframe lacks this.

Movement needs to be finalized. Locked in and polished. Then Player Power Level needs. HARD nerf. 

After this, enemies can be scaled in line with these two things. Armor and health squashed down to levels revised player weapon and power stats can cope with; AI capable of tracking new movements; ALL enemy weapons made to use REAL projectiles (no more hit scan for enemies).

Then, you polish all this. To a shine. And then you leave it alone.

Only once your core, your foundation, is carved in stone, solid and stable and predictable, do you add to it.

But not Warframe.

Warframe is that know it all in the gym who just wants big arms and a stout chest. So he grabs big weights, and starts do curls and bench press. And before you know it he starts pulling muscles and throwing out his back.

Because he lacks a solid foundation. A stable core. 

It's time to back off and polish. You wasted enough time on cutesy additions very few people wanted - Lunaro when Rocket League is worlds better; cats when Kubrow aren't even in a finished, functional state balance wise; Archwing, that you tossed in a quarter completed and allowed to stagnate until mostly no one liked it and dozens of real space games do it better...

And now, you're pushing PVP, at a time, when many games are offering a better PVP sci fi shooter experience than Warframe , with server support to boot.

But you're lising your core audience. Because your core is weak. You're about one good sci fi action or coop Ninja game competitor away from not HAVING that audience any longer.

In a Copycat industry, right now, one half decent Copycat would probably be enough to take Warframe down. And you're busy with everything BUT addressing the many reasons for that.

[WingedCrusade]

I disagree with more than half this list for - what can be a large reason- the playerbase.

 

The devs are fantastic really, and have been nothing but amazing in their interaction with their playerbase as opposed to other gaming companies that wouldn't even know they have a playerbase. There is only so much DE can do at once, and this would just overload them. Do you understand how long it would take to fix and tweak and polish every single thing in this game AND keep pushing out new content?

DE has been trying to fix what they can and when they can, and I'm sure if they were able to just put out new updates purely with bug fixes and polishes for a while they would, but the problem here is, if they don't put out constant new content- people complain. If they don't put out constant new fixes and tweaks and polishes- people complain. Don't fix my favorite frame? People complain. Nerfed Draco? People will complain. Made something better? Well I want my favorite weapons to be buffed too. People will always complain, no matter what. Do you know how difficult it is to make a game when no matter what you do, somebody will complain? They're trying their hardest to please as many people as possible, but have such a small staff to do it, hence why they constantly stay into the morning hours past the time they should've went home to work on things that require attention.

 

As for things like Lore? Actually, Lunaro can be considered Lore friendly. Why? Because DE's game, they're piecing it together, and lore is a thing that they are now starting to try piecing together for us, but it's a lot that they have to establish to do it. It's explained that Teshin, and conclave, are to train and unlock the potential of the Tenno and help teach them. Usually through co-operation. By playing Lunaro, they learn how to act together, as a team. Something most players reeeally don't know how to do. Not to mention from a player and game standpoint, it's something fun for us players who want to get conclave rewards but cannot play pvp for the death of us- because more likely, we are dying every five seconds.

 

Enemy Scaling? They're working on it. Archwing? They're working on it. Grinding? Cheese tactics and frame powers? They've already started and implemented changes to powers to do that, and people complained their precious powers were nerfed. They're working on that too. They know all of this already, so don't try to reiterate what everyone else says and what everyone else knows because it gets slightly irritating. If you don't want to be patient and don't like the game in its current state- Then don't play it. It's as simple as that. You're not entitled to get everything you want all at once just because you have seniority or founders, because guess what, I have those too, and I'm willing to actually be patient with DE if they actually keep putting out these tweaks and finishes over time. If you have any faith in them or this game, then you'd wait. If not, then just leave, because we don't want to hear it.

 

Oh, and falling apart, by the way? Because there are more players than ever playing it, and as an MR20 (Who has never once resorted to Draco or any other cheese leveling node) I can safely say I still haven't lost interest, instead, my interest has been nothing but going up. This is one of my favorite games with the most time invested in it out of any of my other games, surpassing even Fallout and Elder Scrolls.

Edited July 5, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude comment

[BlackCoMerc]

21 hours ago, WingedCrusade said:

I disagree with more than half this list for - what can be a large reason- the playerbase.

 

The devs are fantastic really, and have been nothing but amazing in their interaction with their playerbase as opposed to other gaming companies that wouldn't even know they have a playerbase. There is only so much DE can do at once, and this would just overload them. Do you understand how long it would take to fix and tweak and polish every single thing in this game AND keep pushing out new content? 

 

DE has been trying to fix what they can and when they can, and I'm sure if they were able to just put out new updates purely with bug fixes and polishes for a while they would, but the problem here is, if they don't put out constant new content- people complain. If they don't put out constant new fixes and tweaks and polishes- people complain. Don't fix my favorite frame? People complain. Nerfed Draco? People will complain. Made something better? Well I want my favorite weapons to be buffed too. People will always complain, no matter what. Do you know how difficult it is to make a game when no matter what you do, somebody will complain? They're trying their hardest to please as many people as possible, but have such a small staff to do it, hence why they constantly stay into the morning hours past the time they should've went home to work on things that require attention.

 

As for things like Lore? Actually, Lunaro can be considered Lore friendly. Why? Because DE's game, they're piecing it together. It's explained that Teshin, and conclave, are to train and unlock the potential of the Tenno and help teach them. Usually through co-operation. By playing Lunaro, they learn how to act together, as a team. Something most players reeeally don't know how to do. Not to mention from a player and game standpoint, it's something fun for us players who want to get conclave rewards but cannot play pvp for the death of us- because more likely, we are dying every five seconds.

 

Enemy Scaling? They're working on it. Archwing? They're working on it. Grinding? They're working on that too. They know all of this already, so don't try to reiterate what everyone else says and what everyone else knows because it gets slightly irritating. If you don't want to be patient and don't like the game in its current state- Then don't play it. It's as simple as that. You're not entitled to get everything you want all at once just because you have seniority or founders, because guess what, I have those too, and I'm willing to actually be patient with DE if they actually keep putting out these tweaks and finishes over time. If you have any faith in them or this game, then you'd wait. If not, then just leave, because we don't want to hear it.

I will wait. Sure.

But I won't spend money based on faith. This is the real world. You have to earn customers. Right now, I don't trust DE enough to support the game. I used to; I want to again. But I don't right now.

Because there has been no attempt at polish. Scorpions still have tracking warheads on grappling hooks they fire at 180 degree angles, through terrain. Nearly a years worth of content has featured nothing but more damage sponges and player restrictions. And the grind they profess to hate, they have actively made worse.

So yeah. I'm waiting. I'm watching. I've got Witcher 3 and soon Dishonored 2 to keep me company. And ample cash that I'm saving not buying Plat, in the mean time.

Just remember: preaching patience us all fine. But in this world game development rubs on money. And some of these paying customers have already shown a LOT of patience, waiting for DE to fix core game play.

And instead, they give us a worse version of Rocket League.

[WingedCrusade]

21 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I will wait. Sure.

But I won't spend money based on faith. This is the real world. You have to earn customers. Right now, I don't trust DE enough to support the game. I used to; I want to again. But I don't right now.

Because there has been no attempt at polish. Scorpions still have tracking warheads on grappling hooks they fire at 180 degree angles, through terrain. Nearly a years worth of content has featured nothing but more damage sponges and player restrictions. And the grind they profess to hate, they have actively made worse.

So yeah. I'm waiting. I'm watching. I've got Witcher 3 and soon Dishonored 2 to keep me company. And ample cash that I'm saving not buying Plat, in the mean time.

Just remember: preaching patience us all fine. But in this world game development rubs on money. And some of these paying customers have already shown a LOT of patience, waiting for DE to fix core game play.

And instead, they give us a worse version of Rocket League.

I was following along with you just fine until that last sentence. 

 

DE will continue to get my money at least. And by the way? Archwing and Grind are getting a few fixes coming the third phase of this update. It had already been said with the new Void system and starchart, to fix the Draco issue too.

Edited July 5, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude remark

[BlackCoMerc]

21 hours ago, WingedCrusade said:

I was following along with you just fine until that last sentence. 

 

DE will continue to get my money at least. And by the way? Archwing and Grind are getting a few fixes coming the third phase of this update. It had already been said with the new Void system and starchart, to fix the Draco issue too.

What Ieant to day there, was that dev time used for the mostly unpopular Lunaro, could have been better spent, on the main game.

As for supporting the game...I've done my share and more of that. And I will again, if it becomes a game I enjoy again in the future.

But I don't enjoy being told that the only way to obtain new things, is run Shark wing or Spy or T3 Survival over and over. If those are my only options, I'll just ...play something else.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

21 hours ago, WingedCrusade said:

I was following along with you just fine until that last sentence. 

 

DE will continue to get my money at least. And by the way? Archwing and Grind are getting a few fixes coming the third phase of this update. It had already been said with the new Void system and starchart, to fix the Draco issue too.

Look.... you started out OK with your post... until " I think you need to go back to college because you clearly didn't pay attention". First of all... there is SO much more that goes into game design and development than some average player will possibly know. While you give a few points that COULD have merit, you fail to see the big picture. DE has been developing for some time now under the pretense of a "perpetual beta"... which means they feel they can release unfinished content and get away with it... This is NOT how a game should be developed. On top of that, they have failed to to fix issues that are still in the game from very early in development. They have promised fixes and content that have yet to shop up. For starters, my faith in DE has started to fall off, especially when they started working on Storm Coast Legends with a 170 member team (not 170 developers... 170 employees), all while trying to continue to support Warframe. To blindly throw your money at something DE "promises" is financially unsound. 

The content they have been releasing for the last year has not been much better than what they released back in U10... Kavats are essentially reskins of Kuborows, the Archwing changes are too little too late, the Map changes are likely going to upset 70% of their remaining community due to Draco disappearing, or they will just find another Draco, And to say "They are working on it" They have been 'working on it' for 2 years and still haven't fixed the issues. 

And as a final note... the Forum Moderator asked for me to repost because my first post seemed a little "insulting" or "bashing"... Do NOT try to be insulting or Bashing, otherwise ill simply have your post removed in the same way because IM concerned about this game and these are my OPINIONS... and many people agree... just because you don't agree doesn't mean you need to insult the person posting about OPINIONS. And if for some reason you feel the need to say those things... i will be sure to let the Moderators knows your feelings.

[WingedCrusade]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

What Ieant to day there, was that dev time used for the mostly unpopular Lunaro, could have been better spent, on the main game.

As for supporting the game...I've done my share and more of that. And I will again, if it becomes a game I enjoy again in the future.

But I don't enjoy being told that the only way to obtain new things, is run Shark wing or Spy or T3 Survival over and over. If those are my only options, I'll just ...play something else.

Unpopular how? Almost everybody I've spoken to so far loves it. Do you have any proof as to say it's widely unpopular? :S

 

36 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Look.... you started out OK with your post... until " I think you need to go back to college because you clearly didn't pay attention". First of all... there is SO much more that goes into game design and development than some average player will possibly know. While you give a few points that COULD have merit, you fail to see the big picture. DE has been developing for some time now under the pretense of a "perpetual beta"... which means they feel they can release unfinished content and get away with it... This is NOT how a game should be developed. On top of that, they have failed to to fix issues that are still in the game from very early in development. They have promised fixes and content that have yet to shop up. For starters, my faith in DE has started to fall off, especially when they started working on Storm Coast Legends with a 170 member team (not 170 developers... 170 employees), all while trying to continue to support Warframe. To blindly throw your money at something DE "promises" is financially unsound. 

The content they have been releasing for the last year has not been much better than what they released back in U10... Kavats are essentially reskins of Kuborows, the Archwing changes are too little too late, the Map changes are likely going to upset 70% of their remaining community due to Draco disappearing, or they will just find another Draco, And to say "They are working on it" They have been 'working on it' for 2 years and still haven't fixed the issues. 

And as a final note... the Forum Moderator asked for me to repost because my first post seemed a little "insulting" or "bashing"... Do NOT try to be insulting or Bashing, otherwise ill simply have your post removed in the same way because IM concerned about this game and these are my OPINIONS... and many people agree... just because you don't agree doesn't mean you need to insult the person posting about OPINIONS. And if for some reason you feel the need to say those things... i will be sure to let the Moderators knows your feelings.

Yes, I am aware there is a lot that goes into development. The issue is you're expecting too much from DE. Not to mention a beta means to be an unfinished, still being developed game. DE cannot say this is a full release game if they are still constantly putting out new content and fixes, especially when core aspects of gameplay are still being changed- but, buuut- they actually continually fix things and try to listen to the community as opposed to many other developers who put out games in "beta" and use it as an excuse to not fix it and still earn cash.

 

And I'm not bashing your opinions, you can have those, I never said you were just flat out wrong, but you're speaking like some salty player who thinks everything should come all at once. DE is in every which direction, with attention in multiple places. It can't simply all be done that fast realistically speaking. You even said it yourself, it's unrealistically feasible to do all this.

 

Go ahead and tell the moderator- whatever it is you think I'm doing- but I'm trying to get my point across-

 

DE is trying. They are trying hard, and- it's upsetting to see when people of the playerbase get to be like this. I've been here for a long time, I love this game more than any other game out there now, and I especially love the devs because they're one of the few out there who still listen to their following- something notably rare nowadays as other developers just do what they think we want, rather than listening.

 

Yes, I agree the game is majorly unfinished, and far from, but as it stands, repeating what they know in a way that is along the lines of just meta-complaint without suggestions to fix them? Well- I'm going to speak up. Don't take my response as disrespectful or downright condescending, take it as me trying to start a conversation.

 

Besides, if I do come across as rude? It's probably because working at CVS during a holiday weekend is stressing me out. Please don't take anything inherently bad that I might say to person, because I don't mean any bad feelings.

Edited July 4, 2016 by WingedCrusade

[BlackCoMerc]

Did you see the survey on Lunaro? The one revealing the vast majority either didn't like or are already bored with it?

And are we really falling back to the "it's Beta" defense again? Two years. A full cash shop. It's not a Beta. extant features should by now be stable, complete and balanced upon or shortly after introduction and the core mechanics shouldn't need the drastic overhaul they now require.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

3 minutes ago, WingedCrusade said:

Unpopular how? Almost everybody I've spoken to so far loves it. Do you have any proof as to say it's widely unpopular? :S

 

Yes, I am aware there is a lot that goes into development. The issue is you're expecting too much from DE. Not to mention a beta means to be an unfinished, still being developed game. DE cannot say this is a full release game if they are still constantly putting out new content and fixes, especially when core aspects of gameplay are still being changed- but, buuut- they actually continually fix things and try to listen to the community as opposed to many other developers who put out games in "beta" and use it as an excuse to not fix it and still earn cash.

 

And I'm not bashing your opinions, you can have those, I never said you were just flat out wrong, but you're speaking like some salty player who thinks everything should come all at once. DE is in every which direction, with attention in multiple places. It can't simply all be done that fast realistically speaking.

 

Go ahead and tell the moderator- whatever it is you think I'm doing- but I'm trying to get my point across-

 

DE is trying. They are trying hard, and- it's upsetting to see when people of the playerbase get to be like this. I've been here for a long time, I love this game more than any other game out there now, and I especially love the devs because they're one of the few out there who still listen to their following- something notably rare nowadays as other developers just do what they think we want, rather than listening.

 

Yes, I agree the game is majorly unfinished, and far from, but as it stands, repeating what they know in a way that is along the lines of just meta-complaint without suggestions to fix them? Well- I'm going to speak up. Don't take my response as disrespectful or downright condescending, take it as me trying to start a conversation.

 

Besides, if I do come across as rude? It's probably because working at CVS during a holiday weekend is stressing me out. Please don't take anything inherently bad that I might say to person, because I don't mean any bad feelings.

Fine, you are right, i jumped to a conclusion about your post... not that it would be the first time i came on the forums to state my opinion just to be buried in salt (This community can be pretty freaking toxic at times). 

As for 'not being able to say its full release', thats a lie. Hundreds of Thousands of games release to 'full release' and still have continuous updates, releases and patches. In fact, the number of hotfixes they do is pretty good, they make sure there are no resounding bugs or problems with content for the most part. However, that does not excuse them from what they have been doing. While from a normal standpoint, the content looks sound, from a more technical standpoint, its not. A lot of it is repetitive, or essentially re skinned content they released at an earlier date. A lot of the content they releases does not work well with existing content, and they never fix that. Yes, i am expecting a lot from their team, albeit a very very small team... However, they have failed to show me even a little of what i expect. They are off developing a whole new game while Warframe still has problems that date back as far as update 3. Iv been playing warframe pretty steadily for 3 years... during that time, i have seen things change for better and for worse, but its reached a point where they are just releasing content for contents sake (I.E. Lunaro). The game is in a downward spiral... im not faulting you for likeing the game... i like it too, but its time someone speaks out against what they have been doing and stop accepting it as ok. Perpetual Beta is a bad design idea because most companies that use it are IT companies.... when a game company uses it, they use it as an excuse. Thats why you never see it in the game industry.

[(PSN)swamprat3]

I just finnished reading this thread and i gotta side with Purelcarus i haven't been around for as long as you guys i started around ember prime access so what was that u11? but many of the problems from back then are still around.

On July 3, 2016 at 3:36 AM, TARINunit9 said:

 

But this next point, I know very well where you're coming from... and also why you're, sadly, just not right. For the grindy resource stuff like Nitain, that's actually an attempt to slow you down. Not players in general, you specifically. Yes, you, Mr. Purel. See, DE is at an impasse. When you've been playing the game for nearly 4 years like you have, you need to take something into consideration: you are no longer DE's primary target audience

DE makes and gears content primarily towards players MR5 thru MR15. Once you hit the second-highest MR possible, the game is rapidly running out of content for you and DE very well knows it. They are dedicated to creating more max-mastery content on occasion -- Nightmare Raids, for example -- but DE would very much rather you take a break and come back next time there's an event or new weapons so they can work through their backlog

The reason for this is simple: it takes much longer to create content for you, and you will burn through it in a matter of hours. That's the reason Jordas Precept had so much arbitrary waiting for pherliac, argon, and then more pherliac. And it's the reason that Nitain, Argon, and thousands of Cryotic are now the norm for new content: it slows you down

... and this comment really blew my mind for 2 reasons 

1 if it wasn't DEs aim to keep older players then why would thay keep adding content that only older players can afford or access 

2 most older players dont want a new gun, sword, game mode or pet we want the content we already love fixed (witch in all honesty is what this thread in essence is asking for if im reading it right)

So i will continue to watch and hope that DE will consider not releasing 5 new weapons but insted puts that effort towards fixing existing issues 

 I love this game i would hate to see it die because of growing to big to fast 

[WingedCrusade]

2 hours ago, (PS4)swamprat3 said:

I just finnished reading this thread and i gotta side with Purelcarus i haven't been around for as long as you guys i started around ember prime access so what was that u11? but many of the problems from back then are still around.

... and this comment really blew my mind for 2 reasons 

1 if it wasn't DEs aim to keep older players then why would thay keep adding content that only older players can afford or access 

2 most older players dont want a new gun, sword, game mode or pet we want the content we already love fixed (witch in all honesty is what this thread in essence is asking for if im reading it right)

So i will continue to watch and hope that DE will consider not releasing 5 new weapons but insted puts that effort towards fixing existing issues 

 I love this game i would hate to see it die because of growing to big to fast 

A problem is, if they don't put out new stuff, people will practically riot. It was, what, right as U14 was coming we had a two week drought I think, right? People went nuts. I would absolutely love to see everything polished, but people cry murder when they don't see their fabulous new cape or gun of the week to play with.

 

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Did you see the survey on Lunaro? The one revealing the vast majority either didn't like or are already bored with it?

And are we really falling back to the "it's Beta" defense again? Two years. A full cash shop. It's not a Beta. extant features should by now be stable, complete and balanced upon or shortly after introduction and the core mechanics shouldn't need the drastic overhaul they now require.

I did not see the survey but I'll take your word for it.

 

Also, if I may add, I'd think we'd hit full release once we can hit MR30, because as it stands, we're still adjusting core gameplay aspects and still unable to completely rank up to MR30, which would be the max rank. That's just my two cents though.

 

4 hours ago, PureIcarus said:

Fine, you are right, i jumped to a conclusion about your post... not that it would be the first time i came on the forums to state my opinion just to be buried in salt (This community can be pretty freaking toxic at times). 

As for 'not being able to say its full release', thats a lie. Hundreds of Thousands of games release to 'full release' and still have continuous updates, releases and patches. In fact, the number of hotfixes they do is pretty good, they make sure there are no resounding bugs or problems with content for the most part. However, that does not excuse them from what they have been doing. While from a normal standpoint, the content looks sound, from a more technical standpoint, its not. A lot of it is repetitive, or essentially re skinned content they released at an earlier date. A lot of the content they releases does not work well with existing content, and they never fix that. Yes, i am expecting a lot from their team, albeit a very very small team... However, they have failed to show me even a little of what i expect. They are off developing a whole new game while Warframe still has problems that date back as far as update 3. Iv been playing warframe pretty steadily for 3 years... during that time, i have seen things change for better and for worse, but its reached a point where they are just releasing content for contents sake (I.E. Lunaro). The game is in a downward spiral... im not faulting you for likeing the game... i like it too, but its time someone speaks out against what they have been doing and stop accepting it as ok. Perpetual Beta is a bad design idea because most companies that use it are IT companies.... when a game company uses it, they use it as an excuse. Thats why you never see it in the game industry.

It's fine, I'm with you on that, the community has been getting really toxic over the past year. Kind of sad really. As for the beta thing, well, like I told Black in the paragraph above basically. Can we really even call it a Beta? I don't hear DE refer to it as a beta too often, more the players than the devs.

 

Also, I'd write more, but being on my phone during my job, I can only type so much, even if I'm on my break.

Edited July 4, 2016 by WingedCrusade

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, WingedCrusade said:

A problem is, if they don't put out new stuff, people will practically riot. It was, what, right as U14 was coming we had a two week drought I think, right? People went nuts. I would absolutely love to see everything polished, but people cry murder when they don't see their fabulous new cape or gun of the week to play with.

 

I did not see the survey but I'll take your word for it.

 

Also, if I may add, I'd think we'd hit full release once we can hit MR30, because as it stands, we're still adjusting core gameplay aspects and still unable to completely rank up to MR30, which would be the max rank. That's just my two cents though.

 

It's fine, I'm with you on that, the community has been getting really toxic over the past year. Kind of sad really. As for the beta thing, well, like I told Black in the paragraph above basically. Can we really even call it a Beta? I don't hear DE refer to it as a beta too often, more the players than the devs.

the Developers are the one who termed it "Always in Beta" Due to "Always in a constant state of change". The Devs dont refer to it too often, not nearly as often as the players, but if you ask the right developer or forum moderator, they will tell you that its still "beta".