Steel Fiber vs Vigor

[Maeglin73]

I currently put 2 defensive stat mods on nearly all of my frames, and generally that has been Steel Fiber and either Vitality (Valkyr and Inaros) or Redirection (everything else). I'm building Rhino tanky, so he gets all three. That seemed to work OK, as I didn't build any frames with less than a 65 base armor value. Of course, then I go and build Zephyr and that changes... Vigor seems to have a much better effect on her survivability.

The question is at what base armor value does it make mathematical sense to do that swap. I'm currently thinking about doing it for all frames I have with less than 100 armor, but if it makes sense for 100 armor frames as well, then that's certainly doable.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Maeglin73

[Trichouette]

Steel fiber is useless on warframe with less than 200 armor I'd say.

And rhino doesn't need vitality nor redirection but he does need armor.

[UltimateGrr]

Armor's damage mitigation is based on the formula Armor / (Armor + 300).

100 armor is 25% DR.  200 is 40%.  300 is 50%.

Generally, most frames with less than 100 armor don't see much benefit from Steel Fiber I find.

 

[Lactamid]

You also have the option to go quick thinking + (primed) flow + rage.

Personally I use this more often than redirection, but it's all up to how you play.

[Maeglin73]

7 minutes ago, Lactamid said:

You also have the option to go quick thinking + (primed) flow + rage.

Personally I use this more often than redirection, but it's all up to how you play.

I don't have Quick Thinking yet, but that may be something to think about if/when I get it. I think i only have Rage on Valkyr and Inaros at the moment, since they have the lifestealing abilities to do that trade in reverse.

[Lactamid]

15 minutes ago, Maeglin73 said:

I don't have Quick Thinking yet, but that may be something to think about if/when I get it. I think i only have Rage on Valkyr and Inaros at the moment, since they have the lifestealing abilities to do that trade in reverse.

Might be another mod you don't have but a lot of people use Life Strike on melee to get their hp up again.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Life_Strike

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Lactamid

[Maeglin73]

4 minutes ago, Lactamid said:

Might be another mod you don't have but a lot of people use Life Strike on melee to get their hp up again.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Life_Strike

 

I don't have that one yet, either. I do have Medi-Ray, Guardian and Regen on my Carrier Prime, though, which help.

[Maeglin73]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I've already made the swap on the sub-100 armor frames, and will go ahead and do the same on those in the 100-199 range as well and see how that goes.

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, Maeglin73 said:

Steel Fiber and [...] Redirection

Steel Fiber does nothing for Shields, it only reduces Health damage.

FWIW, on most Frames I run with only Vitality and use CC / defensive abilities
(Efficiency & Range > Strength, usually) to keep me alive.

[Maeglin73]

21 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Steel Fiber does nothing for Shields, it only reduces Health damage.

I've known that for a while now, but thanks.

[BlueFalcon13]

Also, I generally melee (with life strike) alot, so I usually go for vitality on most frames.  Even a tiny bit of DR helps on a frame that by default has balanced shields and health.

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

5 hours ago, Maeglin73 said:

I currently put 2 defensive stat mods on nearly all of my frames, and generally that has been Steel Fiber and either Vitality (Valkyr and Inaros) or Redirection (everything else). I'm building Rhino tanky, so he gets all three. That seemed to work OK, as I didn't build any frames with less than a 65 base armor value. Of course, then I go and build Zephyr and that changes... Vigor seems to have a much better effect on her survivability.

The question is at what base armor value does it make mathematical sense to do that swap. I'm currently thinking about doing it for all frames I have with less than 100 armor, but if it makes sense for 100 armor frames as well, then that's certainly doable.

whenever an enemy hits you with a status effect like slash, puncture, or impact, the damage dealt to you has to go through your armor first. So I guess it would depend upon the enemy level and type you're going up against. One thing to keep in mind is that vitality, steel fiber, and redirection scale off of your frames stats as if it were at rank 0. So 440% vitality would give you 440% health based off of a rank 0 frame. That means of course that the actual percentage it gives you is lower than many players think. I can give you my opinion though I guess. If it were me, I wouldn't equip it on any frame with less than 200 armor at max rank. But then again, 110% of close to nothing is still an improvement and would still increase your survivability.

[(XBOX)Skode]

As everyone has said only use it on high armour frames, an alternative is armoured agility which offers less armour but still a sizable portion with speed thrown in for good measure - this is a mod worth considering on basic Rhino or both versions of Frost. For the higher armour frames like Atlas, Valkyr, Intake etc it's better usually to go Steel Fiber.

[(PSN)sanemane213]

6 hours ago, Maeglin73 said:

I currently put 2 defensive stat mods on nearly all of my frames, and generally that has been Steel Fiber and either Vitality (Valkyr and Inaros) or Redirection (everything else). I'm building Rhino tanky, so he gets all three.

Redirection is a waste of a Mod Slot due to shields Not contributing extra HP to Iron Skin and having little to no compensating to make up for Damage intake outside of frames such as Mag or Trinity. In normal Circumstances, shields is almost never needed on frames that has less than 925 of it, and procs such as Slash, Gas, and Toxin can bypass shields. 

 

6 hours ago, Maeglin73 said:

 Of course, then I go and build Zephyr and that changes... Vigor seems to have a much better effect on her survivability.

A little side note w/ Zephyr. She doesn't need health nor shield Mods for Survivability. Turbulence will protect her from ALL hit scan/non-hit scan projectiles, which is her trump card when it comes to her survivability. Health and Shield will only waste mod slots for better mods. There's no point in having 1100 HP when your Armor rating is at 15, or a shield mod when there's nothing to compensate for Damage Taken when shields are hit, when there's a technique that will completely shield you from all outside Damage, except enemies with Melee, and Splash Damage.  

 

6 hours ago, Maeglin73 said:

The question is at what base armor value does it make mathematical sense to do that swap. I'm currently thinking about doing it for all frames I have with less than 100 armor, but if it makes sense for 100 armor frames as well, then that's certainly doable.

From personal experience and Calculations, frames with over 350 base Armor will benefit mostly from the Transition of Vitality to Vigor after the Application of an Armor mod is Applied. And of course, the only 3 frames who has more than 350 Armor are Chroma, Valkyr, and Atlas. The Reason being is because of their high armor value after Steel Fiber is applied, coupled with the Little HP you get from Vigor, will still suffice in giving them quite a bit of DR to mitigate as much incoming damage as possible. 

[DiosGX]

6 hours ago, Maeglin73 said:

I don't have that one yet, either. I do have Medi-Ray, Guardian and Regen on my Carrier Prime, though, which help.

Regen only helps the sent itself and only once. Just fyi.

[BlueFalcon13]

Sidebar: does melee non-channeling blocking DR before armor?  Never bothered to figure that one out...

[Lactamid]

There are other mods that can be used too now that I think of it, but they are kind of strange to use.
Reflex Guard - will make your flame block incomming fire (after being hit once). This can lower incomming damage, but may also lock you up in a blocking animation. Not shure on the damage mitigation values of blocking either. Might depend on the chosen melee weapon (35% lowest, 85% on silva & aegis).

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_2.0#Parrying
 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Lactamid

[(XBOX)CyBirdNetic]

16 hours ago, Lactamid said:

Might be another mod you don't have but a lot of people use Life Strike on melee to get their hp up again.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Life_Strike

 

All of this on! Quick Thinking for survivability. Rage for channeling Life Strike on the constant and power spamming! GLORIOUS!