Possible Banshee Rework.

[Epsik-kun]

On 7/25/2016 at 1:08 PM, Mr.Lube said:

No need for a Banshee rework. She is one of the most well balanced Warframes in the game right now.

That's a big fat lie. Banshee is one of the most broken and overpowered Warframes in the game right now.

I have no idea why people fail to spend more than 5 minutes experimenting with her.

I don't want a Banshee rework, because she's on a point, when getting a rework equals getting a huge nerf. I don't want my frame to get nerfed. I like her.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

12 hours ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Personally, the only changes I would make to Banshee are:

• Her 1st ability being changed to a "one-handed" casting. Basically, she can cast it while moving similar to Ember's Fireball, Vauban's Abilities, etc.
• Her 3rd ability being a radial toggle, similar to the upcoming Nekros Desecrate change.
• Her armor being buffed up a bit, since she's super squishy. I use her quite well and her abilities are useful for negating damage, but she can get one-shot very easily in a lot of situations if you slip up for even a second.

So much ^this.

[felixsylvaris]

Change about Silence:

• Reduce cost to 50p - it is not that powerful ability.
• If recast during duration take gain 25 power back. (not affected by power strenght)

Reason: Stun part quickly wares off, and enemies may see you (or sentine) from whatever reasons.

Edited July 26, 2016 by felixsylvaris

[TaylorsContraction]

People keep saying that silence alerts enemies, it doesn't. I run stealth missions all the time with her. If you cast silence and are never seen /detected, even if the effect wears off the enemies will not be alerted to your presence. Furthermore while they are stunned by silence you can run in front is them and then passed them and they still will not have detected you. But remember silence doesn't blind enemies, if you just waltz into their line of sight, you'll be detected.

Edited July 26, 2016 by TaylorsContraction
Typos

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Banshee is one of the most broken and overpowered Warframes in the game right now.

LMAO!!!!   If you really think this, then I would hate to see what you think of Ivara.   LOL

[Tatersail]

20 hours ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

 

Soundquake needed something that people won't just go off and leave the banshee alone to deal with the crap. I tried to make it to where banshee would be able to armor strip (since that's a big thing right now) making it easier for her teamates to go around her soundquake and kill those stripped of armor. The augment would help prioritize. In a perfect world, banshee would prioritize heavies/bombards, stripping their armor more than those outside of the soundquake for her teamates to prioritize more than those outside of it.

 

 

You need to try a Resonating quake build http://goo.gl/rNOnch with 4x corrosive projection and you will see that sound quake can be used to kill!  hell add some power strength if you have reliable energy http://goo.gl/R749EW but with armor removal against grineer its not needed unless you plan on hours of play.

 

if you added Armor stripping to her 4, you would remove the need to have corrosive projection...  and she would kill at 100m in almost any random PUG

Grineer actually have very little health, remove the armor and 3080 damage a second kills a level 100 unarmored grineer in a few seconds.. quicker than the other players can cover 100m to find them!

while it has a 20s startup, at final your dealing the same dps most other frames get mashing their ulti's with natural talent and max power str at almost double the range, for a fraction of the energy.

 

 

I get that having an augment mod be the only reason to use a skill is annoying, but this seems to be DE's band-aid solution to most frame powers that players don;t use.

Armor removal would be silly OP, and would solve none of the problems of banshee 4.  Its DULL, Flying enemies!  Nulls!  High HP infested, Damage reduction on Eximus/infested.  

Banshee has such a powerful set of tools with her strong CC on 3 and huge damage boost on 2, I think its fine that her 4 has limitations.  its a unique skill in warfarm and the augment is unlike most other augments.   

 

 

Considering Mag just got a rework and is now considered "fixed" her 4 is a joke next to banshee.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Tatersail

[felixsylvaris]

55 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

People keep saying that silence alerts enemies, it doesn't. I run stealth missions all the time with her. If you cast silence and are never seen /detected, even if the effect wears off the enemies will not be alerted to your presence. Furthermore while they are stunned by silence you can run in front is them and then passed them and they still will not have detected you. But remember silence doesn't blind enemies, if you just waltz into their line of sight, you'll be detected.

It is not about SPY mission or even extermination solo.

In such mission you can use silent weapon, or mod, or Banshee passive and be silent.

In more active mission (Survival, Defense etc) enemies shrug stun effect quick and start shoting.

[TaylorsContraction]

2 minutes ago, felixsylvaris said:

It is not about SPY mission or even extermination solo.

In such mission you can use silent weapon, or mod, or Banshee passive and be silent.

In more active mission (Survival, Defense etc) enemies shrug stun effect quick and start shoting.

You cannot stealth run survival defense, that is an AI issue and has nothing to do with banshee. In those missions enemies are automatically alerted, and when enemies are alerted they know where the player is all the time, even if you're invisible. They won't shoot invisible players but will walk around them like " I know you're there and the moment that invis pops I'm going to unload in you". The stun isn't useless in those situations, it makes enemies not shoot you as soon as they're in your sight. Banshee's strength is offset by her squish, you either kill everything or as much as you can. Then sonic boom or take cover or whatever not to get gunned down.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

In those missions enemies are automatically alerted, and when enemies are alerted they know where the player is all the time, even if you're invisible. They won't shoot invisible players but will walk around them like " I know you're there and the moment that invis pops I'm going to unload in you".

That's a very accurate description.  Ivara and Loki players know this to be true.  LOL

[Mr.Lube]

7 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

That's a big fat lie. Banshee is one of the most broken and overpowered Warframes in the game right now.

I have no idea why people fail to spend more than 5 minutes experimenting with her.

I don't want a Banshee rework, because she's on a point, when getting a rework equals getting a huge nerf. I don't want my frame to get nerfed. I like her.

She doesn't break the game like other Warframes do. Sure, she does really good work but you have to work for it more than you do with other frames.

[Epsik-kun]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Lube said:

She doesn't break the game like other Warframes do.

Yeah, she breaks it harder.

First, she's the only frame I know that can actually exceed the damage cap.

Second, after recent changes to both her ultimate and the Star Chart she has become a meta-frame for map-wiping.

Third, she is a frame that can completely ignore scaling.

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Yeah, she breaks it harder.

First, she's the only frame I know that can actually exceed the damage cap.

Second, after recent changes to both her ultimate and the Star Chart she has become a meta-frame for map-wiping.

Third, she is a frame that can completely ignore scaling.

you left out that she'll go down hard just by sneezing in her direction.

I'm a little confused on how she can exceed a damage cap that isn't there. Anyone who has used Covert Lethality kinda knows this.

[Mr.Lube]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

you left out that she'll go down hard just by sneezing in her direction.

I'm a little confused on how she can exceed a damage cap that isn't there. Anyone who has used Covert Lethality kinda knows this.

My thoughts exactly.

[Epsik-kun]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

she can exceed a damage cap that isn't there

Maybe, just maybe, you should think prior to writing.

9 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

you left out that she'll go down hard just by sneezing in her direction.

guess what was introduced few months ago, that made EHP completely irrelevant when it actually matters.

[DatDarkOne]

16 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Maybe, just maybe, you should think prior to writing.

Then please explain this damage cap that you are referring to.  I haven't run across it.  The only cap I've seen is the lvl 9999 enemies that one patient player managed to get to using a frame that wasn't Banshee. 

As for my thinking before writing, it was done and very well.  All you have to do is READ my full statement instead of quoting only part of it.  I just fail to see how Banshee is OP as you say.  Please explain in full detail.

Edited July 26, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added content

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

explain this damage cap

In Warframe there's a limit of how big one instance of damage can be. Namely it's 2 power by 31 because the damage value is stored in an Int32 variable. CL dagger deals finisher damage equal to enemy HP thus killing them. Max HP of a level 9999 enemy is several orders below the damage cap.

Banshee can hit so hard, she exceed that cap and the damage goes negative.

[DatDarkOne]

Ok.  Now on to the really interesting part.  How would you know this?  Maybe I should say how did you manage to achieve this feat?  I can't see Banshee surviving long enough in a endless mission to get to such a point.  Not being an a-hole or anything.  I'm just really wanting to know how you've come to your conclusions. 

[Epsik-kun]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

How would you know this?

First, you don't need an enemy with two billions HP to hit him for two billions damage.

Second, Naramon is a thing. I would've agreed on the "squishy" part if it weren't. But it is.

Third, Sonar is OP.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[TaylorsContraction]

3 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

First, you don't need an enemy with two billions HP to hit him for two billions damage.

Second, Naramon is a thing. I would've agreed on the "squishy" part if it weren't. But it is.

Third, Sonar is OP.

The keyword in that paragraph is naramon. It's op same has nothing to do with banshee. Everyone can Max this school and get perma invis and cheese. It's not banshee's fault that she can take this cheese to greater levels than a nova.

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, TaylorsContraction said:

The keyword in that paragraph is naramon. It's op

Not these buzzwords again.

"Everyone" will have their damage completely fall off after 80/100/120/140 minutes (depends on a frame and a melee). Banshee can pull off CL Ivara without using the actual CL.

I really don't like when people have no idea how prolonged survivals work, but keep their buzz about how "Everyone can do that with Naramon!". If everyone can do that, then go and do that, you'll be speaking less the next time.

[DatDarkOne]

Oh my.  The Elitism is strong with this one.  A person can have experience with prolonged survivals etc without using the specific things that you have.  To say another lacks experience in something without proof is egotistical.  Just a heads up in case you didn't know that. 

[Epsik-kun]

Resorting to complains about someone's behavior when you have nothing to say on topic is pathetic. And so are attempts to place the blame onto something else when the actual arguments fail. "Just a heads up in case you didn't know that".

[DatDarkOne]

Dude, you're projecting just a little too much.  I wasn't complaining at all and neither was it an attempt to place blame.  My argument didn't fail at all.  I had only asked for clarification of your reasoning for your previous statements. 

I did truly think that you might not have known that some of your comments could come off as "elitist attitude".  My bad.  Carry on. 

[TaylorsContraction]

Just now, Epsik-kun said:

Resorting to complains about someone's behavior when you have nothing to say on topic is pathetic. And so are attempts to place the blame onto something else when the actual arguments fail. "Just a heads up in case you didn't know that".

The point still stands that the long survival you  alluded to is enabled by naramon, not Banshee. You're looking at only one item in her kit, sonar and placing it into an extreme situation where defense and enemy offense are irrelevant. All you have to do is run around and press e. I also never said anyone can go as long as here, just that any frame can employ this strategy and that banshee can go longer than nova.

 

As for naramon being op, to me things that trivialize high level content whereby enemies are just waiting for their slaughter is a sign of an overpowered thing. There are plenty of threads discussing that the players are op and enemy scaling is equally so and we're all waiting for damage 3.0 to see what falls out. If you sincerely believe sonar is op because it lets you enjoy trivial content longer than with any other frame, well that is your opinion.

[Epsik-kun]

24 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

You're looking at only one item in her kit, sonar and placing it into an extreme situation where defense and enemy offense are irrelevant

You deem Naramon OP, because it makes your defense and enemy's offence irrelevant. Well, Sonar makes enemy defense irrelevant. That's the only thing I am trying to point out.