I changed my mind about outright hating Nullifiers

[Brizmuth]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

Tonkor, soma p, and even the quanta, but here's a little secret to kill a juggernaut super fast, fatal ash.

 

Those are all nice suggestions but those barely scratch high level juggernauts, around level 50, unless they hit his week spot except for fatal ash.  

Edited July 30, 2016 by Brizmuth

[Brizmuth]

27 minutes ago, Madho said:

I assume everyone here knows how to aim. Even if I'm not scoring headshots I still kill enemies more efficiently with enough ammo economy. Also innate punchthrough.

Thats one headshot on one enemy and thats only one arrow, while, yes, travelling with punch through, only lobbing in one direction while you knock another single arrow to finish off all the other enemies that first arrow didn't kill who have since had a chance to spread out. Bows are really fun but always complement them with a full-auto weapon like you would any other semi-auto weapon because they tend to be great for taking out a single target but not so great for packs.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Brizmuth

[maxedpotato]

hikou prime+magnetic+concealed explosives
thank me later.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Nulifiers should NOT exist, simple as that, they just a devs knee-jerk reaction to power spam in viver, they unable to see why players do this so just make a units that have a "impenetrable shield of stupidity" Shy (c)

If de wanna keep them-they should reduce it spawn rate and their globe size, like alot, punch thru mods should ignore their globe and they should not able to regen their globe so fast (or unable to regen it at all)

Nullifiers isn't fun or challenging, they annoying. "Melee inside" as a "pro" panacea against them works only in low lvl mission, coz when you have 4-5 of them, with overlaping globes, with little army inside each i just roll my eyes and grit my teeth, due to how dumb this whole situation is and that there peopls that may...enjoy it...ew. And yes, this situation is pretty common, esp in high lvl missions\sortie. Nullifiers spawn rate is just insane, they feels like they just regular units, but they should not.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Brizmuth said:

Bows are really fun but always complement them with a full-auto weapon like you would any other semi-auto weapon because they tend to be great for taking out a single target but not so great for packs.

Right, because running out of ammo is so much fun. Why would I use a bullet hose to mow down a pack with 100 bullets when I could do the exact same thing with under 10 arrows?

[SolarDwagon]

1 hour ago, Jaysus41 said:

Nullifers aren't challenging, that's not the argument with them, and if anyone thinks they're challenging in the least bit, even in late game, they have Much more to learn and Much more skill to gain.

Yea, you read that right. I'm telling the people who think nullifiers are a "good challenge" to "git gud."

Usually when I run into a nullifier I take 2 seconds. 1 second to decide if the buffs I currently have on are worth saving (usually not), 0.5 to kill it (add a second if I decide my buffs are worth it), and another 0.5 to give it a single humiliating teabag, even in the middle of a firefight, because they deserve no less. Even if I get downed in the bubble I can kill it and everything inside it with my sidearm.

HAHA! By downing me you've allowed me to take my most powerful form! Only TIME can kill me now!

The problem is that they're very badly designed and anti-fun. I don't quiver in fear or get excited for an epic confrontation when they approach, I just roll my eyes, slide in, plant a bullet in their skull,  and check the first box on the corpus genocide checklist.

•     Kill nullifier(s) - Check
•     Kill everything else and have FUN while doing it - In Progress...

Combas, Scrambus and Isolator Bursas are infinitely superior power nullifiers, and that leaves me wondering why the knee-jerk "solution" to Viver is still here. All they do is temporarily turn this game into a 2nd rate 3rd person shooter, and if that's what you desire, the steam early access page is --> that way. I'm sure they can accommodate you.

Power nullification shouldn't be a "ho-hum, business as usual" occurrence, it should be an "Oh s***!" moment, something you don't see in corpus missions every..... single..... time..... A Corpus mission to me right now is bring something tanky with a good gun and CoD-slog my way through, or Loki-rush it and avoid everything altogether.. Kinda boring compared to the fun and freedom I could be having in the Grineer and Infested missions.

This is very similar to my opinion of nullifiers as they are now. They're not particularly CHALLENGING per se, they just make the game a crappy TPS.

Also, the situation described a few posts above with stacked heavy enemies inside multiple nullifier globes... is not unrealistic at all. It's bog standard in any Void endless mission, and common in corpus missions.

Nullifiers are too many things *at the same time*. They're quadruple stacked Comba's combined with arctic eximi, that can then be eximi themselves, and the only "counterplay" is either high RoF guns (yay, everyone run the *already* most overused weapons in the game), which then run into ammo issues of course, or to melee through the bubbles which as described, is sometimes a stupid proposition. Remove them entirely and it will increase game flow, decrease frustration and generally.

[taiiat]

oh god, the nested Spoilers.

there's probably a cognitive discussion here but i noped out of the never ending nested Spoilers.

[Revenant0713]

2 hours ago, Brizmuth said:

Those are all nice suggestions but those barely scratch high level juggernauts, around level 50, unless they hit his week spot except for fatal ash.  

Tigris line of weaponry. One gutshot at point blank range.

3 hours ago, Jaysus41 said:

Nullifers aren't challenging, that's not the argument with them, and if anyone thinks they're challenging in the least bit, even in late game, they have Much more to learn and Much more skill to gain.

Yea, you read that right. I'm telling the people who think nullifiers are a "good challenge" to "git gud."

Usually when I run into a nullifier I take 2 seconds. 1 second to decide if the buffs I currently have on are worth saving (usually not), 0.5 to kill it (add a second if I decide my buffs are worth it), and another 0.5 to give it a single humiliating teabag, even in the middle of a firefight, because they deserve no less. Even if I get downed in the bubble I can kill it and everything inside it with my sidearm.

HAHA! By downing me you've allowed me to take my most powerful form! Only TIME can kill me now!

The problem is that they're very badly designed and anti-fun. I don't quiver in fear or get excited for an epic confrontation when they approach, I just roll my eyes, slide in, plant a bullet in their skull,  and check the first box on the corpus genocide checklist.

•     Kill nullifier(s) - Check
•     Kill everything else and have FUN while doing it - In Progress...

Combas, Scrambus and Isolator Bursas are infinitely superior power nullifiers, and that leaves me wondering why the knee-jerk "solution" to Viver is still here. All they do is temporarily turn this game into a 2nd rate 3rd person shooter, and if that's what you desire, the steam early access page is --> that way. I'm sure they can accommodate you.

Power nullification shouldn't be a "ho-hum, business as usual" occurrence, it should be an "Oh s***!" moment, something you don't see in corpus missions every..... single..... time..... A Corpus mission to me right now is bring something tanky with a good gun and CoD-slog my way through, or Loki-rush it and avoid everything altogether.. Kinda boring compared to the fun and freedom I could be having in the Grineer and Infested missions.

You're right of course, but as I mentioned in the post conclusion... we can be frustrated with its anti-fun nature, or we can find other ways to clear rounds where the nullifiers are that ARE fun while waiting for a permanent fix. Personally, while the change makes them a chore to deal with, I quite enjoy when my squad is crouched 80% of the time, using codex scanners to scout ahead, then taking four simultaneous stealth kills before moving to the next room until we hit the objective. The change makes that style of play more fun, but the typical mass-murder meta we've been used to just blinds most people from seeing it.

It took my friends THIS absurdity to get them to play coordinated Rainbow Six stealth in Warframe. I'm against completely removing them because I want the option of having a team that precise and organized as an occasional alternative to endless mission bloodbaths... which are also fun in their own right, of course.

I mean what incentive would we have to ever crouch or sneak beyond that? The change literally forced some players' hands to be creative. If they're removed, that creativity goes bye. Nullifiers need a nerf to keep them in check... maybe a mechanic where they have to plug their packs into a control console, or maybe rev up their packs with a few button presses before the shields come up. Then you'd have counterplay options like shooting their pack to stop it from ever functioning at all. Maybe we could have emotes that actually work like MOBA smartpings, so they serve a purpose: "I'll take the nullifier. You hold and watch if anyone comes around the door." We don't need the bubbles GONE gone.

I wish it was easier to just ask the squad at the start of a mission: "Hey guys, wanna 100% stealth clear this thing?" or "Hey guys, Sortie's Corpus... wanna do a zero alarms challenge?" Public queue almost never presents that opportunity. But clan and alliance chat is ripe full of those if you ask.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Revenant0713

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

10 hours ago, Brizmuth said:

Jokes aside I think that the people who hate them, and I mean really hate them fail to understand their purpose. The games not suppose to be easy. Nulifiers are suppose to act as a strategic road block that you have to figure out how to deal with. Its so much more than just a damage blocker. You cant just instantly pop it, you either have to take the risk and dive inside to take the enemy out or throw everything your weapon has to break the field. You cant just cheese missions with Ash ults or stay hurdled in a Frost bubble with them around. They actually add some agency to some missions that would just have a standard "kill all the boring mobs" feel to them.

Nullifiers are easy.  There is nothing challenging at all about rinsing a ridiculously large bubble with bullets.  It took all of 5 seconds when I saw my first nullifer to figure out how they work and how to counter them.  They have not caused a single tactical thought since those few seconds over a year ago.  So arguing they need to exist for challenge is farce.

I have two gripes.  First is nullifiers restrict loadout selection too much.  Not even bosses restrict loadout as much as nullifiers.  I have run literally thousands of missions with high ROF weapons for the explicit purpose of dealing with nullifiers, nothing else.  Nullifiers for a long time have been my only consideration when choosing weapons.  The question I actually ask myself before I start a mission is, "Can I have fun or do I bring the quanta?"  I want to be able to use something else now, but the guns with firing characteristics significantly different from from the soma or boltor are near worthless against nullifier shields.  

My second gripe is that nullifiers make us more like the trash units we blow through.  Warframe is not fun because it takes longer to kill trash mobs like butchers and lancers.  Warframe is fun because because you are a space ninja with awesome powers.  Fun and cool cannot be sacrificed at the alter of balance and challenge.  Nullifiers are a symptom of a problem that stems from difficulty based on effective HP (enemies eventually become bullet sponges that one-shot >> counter with CC >> CC is too strong>> counter with nullies>> nullies suck >> this thread).  Difficulty should be based on special interaction with enemies rather than effective HP.  For example bombards should be damage immune until we reflect a rocket back at them which blows their armor off and leaves them vulnerable.  Resistance to power strength and duration should be implemented on units that we should not simply blow through as that still makes our powers useful but keeps them from being OP.  We do not need to meet the trash, the trash should evolve and meet us.

For me Warframe has become more fun as it has become easier to use powers.  I love chaining wormholes with Nova, and I want to spend the entire mission in archwing mode when Titiania comes out.  It is a good thing we can spend energy and use our power frivolously, and power immunity kills that.

[Wierailia]

1. As a stealth-fan. Here's my two cents. Combas and Scrambus enemies should be removed. Completely. There's already nullifiers, so why add another kind that's Tougher, hits harder, and a very, very bad opponent against stealth players.   Nullifiers already make things hard for solo stealth, which, by the way is my favourite type of gameplay. I can explore the map in peace and take my time. But nooo..They have to stack enemies, which makes it impossible to get through a corridor. And two Nullies? Haha..No. Especially with some juicy Eximi inside, and maybe Detron crewmen and a shockwave MOA.
2. NULLIFIERS SHOULD NOT HAVE THEIR BUBBLES UP WHEN UN-ALERTED . It makes absolutely no sense that they're on high guard, 24/7 with bubbles on. Moreso, they don't even know we're in the goddamn area, because they are un-alerted. This way, I can at least enjoy my stealth runs without being molested by 3 meter tall black-leather suit wearing men with ice-skates and a electric whip that 3 shots. Oh and, a nullifier aura, which makes it impossible to try to even take a nullifier bubble down if the whipper is close-by. Did I mention the energy-blaster, that, surprise surprise HAS A NULLIFIER AURA ASWELL. Also 3 shots you even at longer distances.

 

This is really, really unhealthy gameplay. You've already reworked some of the press-4-to-kill machines, Nullifier enemies in general are broken. I don't want to use my Auto-Rifles all the time. I don¨t want to be super powerful all killing machine all the time. Sometimes, just sometimes I want to have, what some call: FUN. If that includes slow-paced, low reward stealth runs that are completely ruined by these monsters, then no, I don't want to have fun. I'll just stick to the recruit chat and go stand still for a couple of missions of some Interception, maybe do the Sorties and if I bother, some R5 Farm.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Wierailia
More cents

[Revenant0713]

On 7/31/2016 at 3:47 AM, Wierailia said:

1. As a stealth-fan. Here's my two cents. Combas and Scrambus enemies should be removed. Completely. There's already nullifiers, so why add another kind that's Tougher, hits harder, and a very, very bad opponent against stealth players.   Nullifiers already make things hard for solo stealth, which, by the way is my favourite type of gameplay. I can explore the map in peace and take my time. But nooo..They have to stack enemies, which makes it impossible to get through a corridor. And two Nullies? Haha..No. Especially with some juicy Eximi inside, and maybe Detron crewmen and a shockwave MOA.
2. NULLIFIERS SHOULD NOT HAVE THEIR BUBBLES UP WHEN UN-ALERTED . It makes absolutely no sense that they're on high guard, 24/7 with bubbles on. Moreso, they don't even know we're in the goddamn area, because they are un-alerted. This way, I can at least enjoy my stealth runs without being molested by 3 meter tall black-leather suit wearing men with ice-skates and a electric whip that 3 shots. Oh and, a nullifier aura, which makes it impossible to try to even take a nullifier bubble down if the whipper is close-by. Did I mention the energy-blaster, that, surprise surprise HAS A NULLIFIER AURA ASWELL. Also 3 shots you even at longer distances.

 

This is really, really unhealthy gameplay. You've already reworked some of the press-4-to-kill machines, Nullifier enemies in general are broken. I don't want to use my Auto-Rifles all the time. I don¨t want to be super powerful all killing machine all the time. Sometimes, just sometimes I want to have, what some call: FUN. If that includes slow-paced, low reward stealth runs that are completely ruined by these monsters, then no, I don't want to have fun. I'll just stick to the recruit chat and go stand still for a couple of missions of some Interception, maybe do the Sorties and if I bother, some R5 Farm.

I don't agree with the first point. Combas and Scrambi encourage tactical thought during stealth missions.

I agree with the second point though. The Nullifiers need their bubbles off when unalerted. Punish players who ring alarms.

[Revenant0713]

On 7/30/2016 at 9:16 PM, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

Nullifiers are easy.  There is nothing challenging at all about rinsing a ridiculously large bubble with bullets.  It took all of 5 seconds when I saw my first nullifer to figure out how they work and how to counter them.  They have not caused a single tactical thought since those few seconds over a year ago.  So arguing they need to exist for challenge is farce.

I have two gripes.  First is nullifiers restrict loadout selection too much.  Not even bosses restrict loadout as much as nullifiers.  I have run literally thousands of missions with high ROF weapons for the explicit purpose of dealing with nullifiers, nothing else.  Nullifiers for a long time have been my only consideration when choosing weapons.  The question I actually ask myself before I start a mission is, "Can I have fun or do I bring the quanta?"  I want to be able to use something else now, but the guns with firing characteristics significantly different from from the soma or boltor are near worthless against nullifier shields.  

My second gripe is that nullifiers make us more like the trash units we blow through.  Warframe is not fun because it takes longer to kill trash mobs like butchers and lancers.  Warframe is fun because because you are a space ninja with awesome powers.  Fun and cool cannot be sacrificed at the alter of balance and challenge.  Nullifiers are a symptom of a problem that stems from difficulty based on effective HP (enemies eventually become bullet sponges that one-shot >> counter with CC >> CC is too strong>> counter with nullies>> nullies suck >> this thread).  Difficulty should be based on special interaction with enemies rather than effective HP.  For example bombards should be damage immune until we reflect a rocket back at them which blows their armor off and leaves them vulnerable.  Resistance to power strength and duration should be implemented on units that we should not simply blow through as that still makes our powers useful but keeps them from being OP.  We do not need to meet the trash, the trash should evolve and meet us.

For me Warframe has become more fun as it has become easier to use powers.  I love chaining wormholes with Nova, and I want to spend the entire mission in archwing mode when Titiania comes out.  It is a good thing we can spend energy and use our power frivolously, and power immunity kills that.

Restricted loadout IS a tactical thought. And there are multiple ways of dealing with Nullifiers other than ROF weapons. Slide attacks are good. So are stealth takedowns. There are a bunch of secondaries that work well against nullifiers as well.

This thread isn't a "Nullies suck" thread. Though the debate among the replies seems to suggest that.

Power immunity IS technically an obstacle. A lot of people have so far complained that "There is nothing challenging," but at the same time in the same posts, tend to argue that "Nullies should be removed because it's too hard to deal with 5 Eximi inside a bubble of an Eximus."

Like I said, I think Nullifiers need to be tweaked a bunch, but they aren't as bad or unhealthy as most people believe.

 

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

13 minutes ago, Revenant0713 said:

Restricted loadout IS a tactical thought

That I had once a really long time ago.  And slide attacks are not viable during missions that are actually challenging.  Stealth attacks cant happen during endless missions.

37 minutes ago, Revenant0713 said:

This thread isn't a "Nullies suck" thread. Though the debate among the replies seems to suggest that.

Even slightly suggesting that nullifiers might kinda be okay, causes me severe pain and uncontrollable muscle spasms.

43 minutes ago, Revenant0713 said:

Power immunity IS technically an obstacle. A lot of people have so far complained that "There is nothing challenging," but at the same time in the same posts, tend to argue that "Nullies should be removed because it's too hard to deal with 5 Eximi inside a bubble of an Eximus."

I have not.  I simply said that the only reliable way to deal with that is a high fire rate weapon which is lame and restrictive.

44 minutes ago, Revenant0713 said:

Like I said, I think Nullifiers need to be tweaked a bunch, but they aren't as bad or unhealthy as most people believe.

I would be fine with them if snipers and bows penetrated the shield.  But I also don't want to see more power immune enemies.  They are part of a trend that really needs to stop.

[Wierailia]

1 hour ago, Revenant0713 said:

I don't agree with the first point. Combas and Scrambi encourage tactical thought during stealth missions.

I agree with the second point though. The Nullifiers need their bubbles off when unalerted. Punish players who ring alarms.

 

Combas and Scrambi are the opposite of tactical thought. If they didn't have the Nullifier aura I'd be fine with them.

[Redthirst]

The main issue with them is the fact that they instantly remove any buff you have. Frames like Equinox or Chroma rely on their buffs. Not only that, but their buffs take time to reach full potential, so just recasting them doesn't work. So you are forced to destroy their bubble, which takes a while, even if you have full-auto weapon. They are simply frustrating to deal with.

And lets face it - the main reason we even have them in the game is because DE couldn't bother to fix the broken power system we have in game now, so they introduce this enemy. The funny thing is that it doesn't actually fix anything. It's annoying to deal with, but power spam is still as broken as before. But DE being DE, they will likely keep buffing Nullifiers instead of actually fixing the root of the problem.

[Revenant0713]

You know what we need? We need an official statement from DE on why Nullifiers are in the game. I can find a few reasons, as I have listed in my post. But unless we know what is on DE's mind, we won't know how to come up with proper feedback and suggestions that won't conflict with their motives.

Also, Combas and Scrambi DO encourage tactical thought, because you can't exactly go no-holds barred while they're around. Limiting environmental factors are generally factors that encourage tactical thought.

[Drathe]

Overall, I don't mind Nullifiers. Sure, they're annoying, and they can be troublesome to deal with,but that's what they're meant to be. I do agree they're too common. They should be close to Bursa level rarity - only a few every mission. That being said...this:

 

No. This is what's wrong with Nullifiers. Nullifiers should not be able to be any kind of Eximus. ESPECIALLY Arctic Eximus. I honestly beleive they should stop Eximus powers from working as much as they stop Warframe abilities. But this case in particular. To counter a Nullifier, you shoot the bubble a bit, or you get inside the bubble. Arctic Eximus Nullifiers? Shooting the bubble doesn't work, because they have a Snow Globe shield. Getting inside the bubble doesn't work because they slow you down inside the Snow Globe. It makes what should be a slightly more difficult version of a slightly more difficult enemy intoan absolute powerhouse. And if something like that comes at you in the middle of a wave of enemies, you might as well just lie down and die, because it's less painful that way.

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

On 7/29/2016 at 9:51 PM, NeithanDiniem said:

In situations like this I still have had absolutely no problem with melee with nulls. I still cannot see how it is as bad of a problem as people say. As for why bubbles dont account for high damage shots, most players in situations like you described would normally be using one of the meta stupidly high powered guns anyways and thus letting them simply oneshot the null with a gun does nothing to stop them or even hinder them.

i know the void is gone for you guys, imagine going up against a nully with 2 bombards and 3 heavy gunners in one bubble, then there is another one with 2 heavy gunners and a arctic globe on the other side, its really bad dude, you charge in there when there lvl 60+ your dead

[catastrophy]

On 30.7.2016 at 8:42 AM, taiiat said:

oh god, the nested Spoilers.

there's probably a cognitive discussion here but i noped out of the never ending nested Spoilers.

It's actually not that bad content in there. I think it's good feedback.

[NeithanDiniem]

14 hours ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

i know the void is gone for you guys, imagine going up against a nully with 2 bombards and 3 heavy gunners in one bubble, then there is another one with 2 heavy gunners and a arctic globe on the other side, its really bad dude, you charge in there when there lvl 60+ your dead

I charged in when they were level 70+ and it still was zero problem. Its called using the proper weapon to do the job. I normally played with a Jat Kittag solely for the reason that when I would ground slam it would ragdoll everyone in the bubble, letting me easily dispatch the null and get out of there. I encountered the situation you described literally every single T4 endless I went into.

[AlphaPHENIX]

Came for the title, stayed for the feedback and upvoted for the PS.

[AlphaPHENIX]

14 hours ago, Drathe said:

Overall, I don't mind Nullifiers. Sure, they're annoying, and they can be troublesome to deal with,but that's what they're meant to be. I do agree they're too common. They should be close to Bursa level rarity - only a few every mission. That being said...this:

 

No. This is what's wrong with Nullifiers. Nullifiers should not be able to be any kind of Eximus. ESPECIALLY Arctic Eximus. I honestly beleive they should stop Eximus powers from working as much as they stop Warframe abilities. But this case in particular. To counter a Nullifier, you shoot the bubble a bit, or you get inside the bubble. Arctic Eximus Nullifiers? Shooting the bubble doesn't work, because they have a Snow Globe shield. Getting inside the bubble doesn't work because they slow you down inside the Snow Globe. It makes what should be a slightly more difficult version of a slightly more difficult enemy intoan absolute powerhouse. And if something like that comes at you in the middle of a wave of enemies, you might as well just lie down and die, because it's less painful that way.

Artic Eximus Nullifiers are simply more anoying and time consuming then the normal versions, nothing else is different. Here are some tips on how to get rid of them:

• 1-2 Redeemer charge atacks/shots are enough to destroy the globe, from there you can take them out just like any other Nullifier...as long the slow effect isn't too much.
• 1-2 shots in close to medium range from the Sancti Tigris (with my set up which does have a Sweeping Serration, and a Primed Point Blank) are enough to take down the globe insert the rest of what I just said about the Redeemer here.

And, by the way, here is how I deal with Nullifiers in general (besides slide atacks):

1. Bullet Jump above their heads.
2. Slam Attack.
3. Nef Anyo (Profit).

[Geuax]

On 7/29/2016 at 11:48 PM, Loswaith said:

The recent update on nulifiers actually made many of the previous complaints justified (and I used to be a stout defender of them), DE had them right the first time.  While the only real issue was their over frequent spawn rate.

Due to the change, no damage from outside the bubble actually will hurt the Nulifier inside it regardless of the bubbles actual size (you either have to be 100% inside or the bubble disabled, removing many good tactics to defeat them).  Even if you have a 1 meter radius nulifier bubble and a 5 meter explosion, the nulifier takes no damage, or a long reach melee weapon slices right through the nulifier, it gets with no damage, despite the weapon cleaning clipping through them.  Along with that the nulifier bubble has actually been increased in size by about 2-3 meters.

 

the new change did nothing to how laughablly easy killing nullies is. hell only a handfull of weapons are totally ineffective at poping the bubble.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

What is this about freezing or magnetizing a reactor?

[Geuax]

17 hours ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

i know the void is gone for you guys, imagine going up against a nully with 2 bombards and 3 heavy gunners in one bubble, then there is another one with 2 heavy gunners and a arctic globe on the other side, its really bad dude, you charge in there when there lvl 60+ your dead

shoot the nullie until you can pop the gunner and bombards?