Recent Changes to credit gain

[Gurbak]

And there has been no damn credit weekend for ages

[Troll_Logic]

6 hours ago, Biscotchi said:

But of course, let the people with 20mil credits saved shrug it all off, because it doesn't affect them.

It will once they start maxing mods. :)

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

On July 30, 2016 at 10:20 PM, taiiat said:

i spend tons of Credits. i gain tons of Credits.
this hasn't changed for me.

Right like standing earning ?

De white knight .

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

Right like standing earning ?

De white knight .

very useful addition to the discussion.

you are a meaningful addition to humanity and human knowledge - proving your points with facts to convince someone of your argument.

[Biscotchi]

43 minutes ago, taiiat said:

very useful addition to the discussion.

you are a meaningful addition to humanity and human knowledge - proving your points with facts to convince someone of your argument.

He/she DID support their arguement. Syndicate standing, as they mentioned, is a very obvious example of what's going on. Like credits, it was cut in half after SotR. Something anyone can check by just looking at the current rewards of 3-5k max and comparing them to the old rewards of 6-10k max.

There is definitive, numerical data which you can easily obtain by comparing rewards pre-SotR and after.

 

Examples: 

max level dark sector rewards pre-update: 20k credits for a clear.

max level dark sector rewards post-update: 12-13k credits for a clear.

 

void tower mission credit rewards pre-update: 9k-24k credits for a clear.

relic fissure mission credit rewards post-update: 3k-5k credits for a clear.

 

Unless you can specify where credit rewards were comparatively INCREASED to offset these changes, the fact that credits rewards WERE NERFED is not up for debate. What IS up for debate is whether DE had any justifiable reason for doing this, without supporting it or even mentioning it in any of the patch notes I might add, and to what extent this will affect the game negatively.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Biscotchi
typos

[taiiat]

12 minutes ago, Biscotchi said:

Unless you can specify where credit rewards were comparatively INCREASED to offset these changes

i mean, it's not like i said that in like half of my posts in this thread, as well as any of my posts in other threads on this topic.

but nobody acknowledges that stuff because they're looking to just yell at the air, not actually have a discussion.
so i have no real interest in having a discussion either, since there's nobody to talk to.

[IceColdHawk]

Hm. Seems like people are arguing here whether or not you can still earn "enough" credits. I don't know why this has to be because 1 thing is for sure certain. And that is the fact that credit gain got nerfed, STEALTH NERFED even.

I don't mind if DE at least explicitly mentions that they nerfed credits while giving out a good reason for it. Like: "Good day tenno. After some thinking around the topic of credits, we've decided to reduce the credit gain because in our eyes, it was too much and made credits for high lvl players meaningless...etc."

We at least would have gotten an official statement. But what? NO! They bring out SotR, bugged and rushed to say, and with it comes reduced credit gains. It wasn't even mentioned in the patch notes. Stealth nerf so. One can say it's a bug but this looks just too suspicious to be an "unintended bug" (doesn't necessarily mean it's not a bug, more to that later). Especially considering the very loud feedback concerning this, noone can say DE isn't aware of it already for fixing it. It's a bit of a naughty move if i'm being honest. Just like the trinity prime access with the split kubrow armor and colours. They wouldn't have changed it without the community being loud. And i don't understand why they have to ruin their updates with moves like this.

And even despite all that if it happens to be a "hard to fix" bug, they could at least tell us that it is a bug and they're working on fixing it. But nothing...

~Said by someone who has more credits than stuff to spend it on

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, Biscotchi said:

the fact that credits rewards WERE NERFED is not up for debate.

This, basically.

28 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Hm. Seems like people are arguing here whether or not you can still earn "enough" credits. I don't know why this has to be because 1 thing is for sure certain. And that is the fact that credit gain got nerfed, STEALTH NERFED even.

The stealth nerf bit is what bugs me about it.

They could have made some sort of PSA about it, and they didn't. The same goes for changes to syndicate standing rewards.

This stuff wasn't talked about, and that I find to be super sketchy. Even if you don't trust the community to respond with maturity, you must still share anyway. That is a reality of doing business ethically.

These folks at DE are representing to us that our support and involvement allows them to make a living doing what they are passionate about. I don't know if that's really how they feel; that is what they tell us, and I accept it as true for the purpose of discussion. Keeping the customer in the dark about important changes to their experience because you're afraid of a negative response looks super scummy and immature. These behaviors prevent me from wanting to buy platinum, from wanting to buy Prime Access, from wanting to go to the market and spend the platinum I have accumulated.

When DE behaves this way, they are sending a message that they do not trust us or respect us. Perhaps that is exactly the opposite of what they intend. The sad truth is that intent alone is not enough. You must also account for the perception of your behaviors. This is a basic rule of sharing your existence with other thinking, feeling creatures.

Sorry, DE, but you're telling us that you folks are earning a good living doing something you all love to do. You're telling us that you occupy a happy and privileged position. You're also telling us that we aren't worth bringing into the loop on some important matters.

Mixed messages.

If DE thinks they deserve my money and support, they need to prove that they are capable of following through on a precedent they set for themselves. I'm perfectly willing to extend that support, and even money if I have it to give, but the burden is on the business. DE loves to tell us how great it is to work on Warframe. Now the customers are justified in expecting some basic respect from a company that our money and time and trust helped to build.

[JoeGranville]

59 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

This, basically.

The stealth nerf bit is what bugs me about it.

They could have made some sort of PSA about it, and they didn't. The same goes for changes to syndicate standing rewards.

This stuff wasn't talked about, and that I find to be super sketchy. Even if you don't trust the community to respond with maturity, you must still share anyway. That is a reality of doing business ethically.

These folks at DE are representing to us that our support and involvement allows them to make a living doing what they are passionate about. I don't know if that's really how they feel; that is what they tell us, and I accept it as true for the purpose of discussion. Keeping the customer in the dark about important changes to their experience because you're afraid of a negative response looks super scummy and immature. These behaviors prevent me from wanting to buy platinum, from wanting to buy Prime Access, from wanting to go to the market and spend the platinum I have accumulated.

When DE behaves this way, they are sending a message that they do not trust us or respect us. Perhaps that is exactly the opposite of what they intend. The sad truth is that intent alone is not enough. You must also account for the perception of your behaviors. This is a basic rule of sharing your existence with other thinking, feeling creatures.

Sorry, DE, but you're telling us that you folks are earning a good living doing something you all love to do. You're telling us that you occupy a happy and privileged position. You're also telling us that we aren't worth bringing into the loop on some important matters.

Mixed messages.

If DE thinks they deserve my money and support, they need to prove that they are capable of following through on a precedent they set for themselves. I'm perfectly willing to extend that support, and even money if I have it to give, but the burden is on the business. DE loves to tell us how great it is to work on Warframe. Now the customers are justified in expecting some basic respect from a company that our money and time and trust helped to build.

Totally agree And ... they will do it again anytime they want to slower artificialy any major element of players progression.

Why ?

Because community is ok with stealth nerfs.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

39 minutes ago, Fantasiorg said:

Totally agree And ... they will do it again anytime they want to slower artificialy any major element of players progression.

Why ?

Because community is ok with stealth nerfs.

The nerfs look like a move to promote the sales of boosters aka as a Cash grab .

[JoeGranville]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

The nerfs look like a move to promote the sales of boosters aka as a Cash grab .

Of course.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Fantasiorg

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

i mean, it's not like i said that in like half of my posts in this thread, as well as any of my posts in other threads on this topic.

but nobody acknowledges that stuff because they're looking to just yell at the air, not actually have a discussion.
so i have no real interest in having a discussion either, since there's nobody to talk to.

The question I have is why do YOU lie when the facts point to nerfs?

Why do you continue to lie in another thread when the topic of credit nerfs or standing nerfs is being debated?

When folks discover the facts no amount of being a de white knight is going to fix a bad situation.

 

[Biscotchi]

3 hours ago, notlamprey said:

This, basically.

The stealth nerf bit is what bugs me about it.

They could have made some sort of PSA about it, and they didn't. The same goes for changes to syndicate standing rewards.

This stuff wasn't talked about, and that I find to be super sketchy. Even if you don't trust the community to respond with maturity, you must still share anyway. That is a reality of doing business ethically.

These folks at DE are representing to us that our support and involvement allows them to make a living doing what they are passionate about. I don't know if that's really how they feel; that is what they tell us, and I accept it as true for the purpose of discussion. Keeping the customer in the dark about important changes to their experience because you're afraid of a negative response looks super scummy and immature. These behaviors prevent me from wanting to buy platinum, from wanting to buy Prime Access, from wanting to go to the market and spend the platinum I have accumulated.

When DE behaves this way, they are sending a message that they do not trust us or respect us. Perhaps that is exactly the opposite of what they intend. The sad truth is that intent alone is not enough. You must also account for the perception of your behaviors. This is a basic rule of sharing your existence with other thinking, feeling creatures.

Sorry, DE, but you're telling us that you folks are earning a good living doing something you all love to do. You're telling us that you occupy a happy and privileged position. You're also telling us that we aren't worth bringing into the loop on some important matters.

Mixed messages.

If DE thinks they deserve my money and support, they need to prove that they are capable of following through on a precedent they set for themselves. I'm perfectly willing to extend that support, and even money if I have it to give, but the burden is on the business. DE loves to tell us how great it is to work on Warframe. Now the customers are justified in expecting some basic respect from a company that our money and time and trust helped to build.

This. This. This.

A great explanation of why this situation is so infuriating, and I'd highly recommend the OP pastes this into the original post so everyone who reads this thread is sure to see it.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

The question I have is why do YOU lie when the facts point to nerfs?

no facts were presented. it doesn't matter how easy it might be to prove something for one's self, if you want to make an argument you must prove it to them. it's your responsibility to.

most don't get the scientific way of handling things, if you don't prove it's true, then it isn't.
more importantly though, neither that thread nor this are about Syndicate Points, at all.

 

but i guess i must be some sort of White Knight, even though i'm known around here for being a complete A****** about Warframe.
other peoples' descriptions of me are 'hates everything'. but that must translate to White Knight i guess.

Edited August 2, 2016 by taiiat

[Biscotchi]

50 minutes ago, taiiat said:

no facts were presented. 

Can you dispute the nerf in credit rewards to dark sectors, trials, and void keys / relics, as well as syndicate standing from the numbers I posted? All of these can be seen in-game as bright as day, any time you would like. Provide us numbers. Show us datamining showing an increase in credits somewhere else. Show us screenshots comparing passive credit gain from enemies before and after the patch. Show us ANYTHING, I for one, would welcome being shown this is all some big misunderstanding.

50 minutes ago, taiiat said:

more importantly though, neither that thread nor this are about Syndicate Points, at all.

People aren't as outraged over syndicate standing as it isn't as universally useful as credits, but like credits, they received a very clear reduction before and after the patch, so yes, they are involved in this conversation as well, as it is yet another player resource which was mysteriously cut in half with the SotR update.

 

50 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it doesn't matter how easy it might be to prove something for one's self

If there is anyone here flat out refusing to listen to anyone else's argument here, as you stated in one of your earlier posts as well, it's very clearly you. I honestly can't understand why you're so adamant that there's been no change when the numbers are staring you in the face. Trolling? Some underdog complex? Creating a shrine to DE in your closet and blindly believing they are immaculate and can do no wrong?

We await your data in your next post. Until you present it, I think it's safe to say we can wave off your posts as simple trolling.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Biscotchi

[JoeGranville]

12 hours ago, taiiat said:

but i guess i must be some sort of White Knight, even though i'm known around here for being a complete A****** about Warframe.
other peoples' descriptions of me are 'hates everything'. but that must translate to White Knight i guess.

Ah ah you made my day. XD

If so many people tell you are an A****** is that obviously you act as an a55hole. Seems accurate.

And if you can't make a difference between an a55hole and a White Knight, yes probably, getting 12 k credits instead of 24k is not a nerf but an improvement with this way of thinking.

Lucky you !

Edited August 2, 2016 by Fantasiorg

[Mellaus]

First time i play a game like warframe, so i didn't know what to expect, but now i do.

Basically it's free to play, which translates by massive grind and pay to win pay to grind less pay to progress faster pay to look cooler.

So, the harder, the grinder the game is the more players will have to pay to keep playing and progressing.

 

With that in mind, it seems obvious that warframe will always get grinder, thanks to ninja nerfs like the credits one, and the reasonning behind it is that DE being a company, i guess it follows the basic model that this year revenue has to be higher than the previous year revenue, because, investors.

Since they seem to have a hard time producing new content, apparently, if i'm judging after that Lunaro thing, they can only rely on cash grabs, such as credits boosters and whatnot.

 

Now, regarding just the credit nerf, i'm not sure what part of the population it targets. As a casual and newbie myself, i don't really feel it, because i don't trade with other players, i don't buy primed mod or whatever, so basically i only use credits to craft stuff by myself.

So i assume that if i'm not impacted that much as a newbie, then the target must be the veterans, and playing warframe is always going to be a battle between the player who want to pay a fair amount of money for a fair amount of content, and DE, who wants the player to pay as much money as possible for as little content as possible.

 

My point is, don't be surprised, there's no bug here, no misunderstanding, no unfortunate error, this is a free to play game, and that's exactly how DE is going to conduct things.

So it's important to call BS on those moves, but ultimately, DE will always try to find new ways to grab more cash without delivering actual content, because creating content has a high cost and you're not sure if the players will buy it, while nerfing credits or the void has a much lower cost and players will pay to keep playing the way they used to.

[-Sandman]

49 minutes ago, Fantasiorg said:

 

-snip- getting 12 k credits instead of 24k is not a nerf but an improvement with this way of thinking.

 

You know I am surprised I have not seen the (Draco) "broken levels of affinity" argument applied to credits yet... such as "well we had broken amounts of credit gains in the past so they finally fixed it". 

[Halp]

this entire situation is super frustrating. from day one of the patch i've been bringing up the credit nerf only to get the same types of oblivious to outright ignorant responses from people who obviously have tens of millions of credits. great, you have more credits then you can ever spend. way to go. i have more resources then i can ever use(well except polymer) and more plat than i could ever spend as well(10k). here is the difference tho. when i need polymer i can go spend 20 mins in a survival and farm up more then i will need. credits on the other hand means spending 3 hours in hieracon to earn an almost respectable amount of credits. guess which one is going to make me burn out faster?

 

im guessing DE took the same approach to credits as they did resources. i mean if this guy whos been playing 10 hours a day for 3 years has millions of nano spores obviously all players can afford it. then they wonder why the new player experience is universally criticized.

 

as for trading...half my trades these days involve opening the trade window, seeing the poor guy has no credits and having to wait for them to go sell some mods or even run missions with them so they can get a measly 40 plat. i cant imagine being a new player right now with little to no options for credit gain.  even a vet like me cant keep up anymore. i had to grind credits to afford what i wanted from baro(note i didn't have to grind the ducats everyone was so afraid of but credits...). on top of that i have a ton of mods i want to rank up and 2000 R5 cores to do it but, nope, no credits.

 

at this point my play sessions involve running 1 or 2 extractors at heiracon and extracting for as long as i can stomach just so i can afford the trade tax. its pathetic that at this point getting the 5 R5 core reward from an extractor is a disappointment. little heads up for DE, we dont all run the raid multiple times a day. im sure you know this and have numbers on the % of players who have ever even done the raid. so for my sanity please stop designing your game around the outliers. 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Halp

[Kastorius]

The credit nerf will end up being a huge mistake on DE's part.

Before the nerf, if you didn't have a credit booster, you'd regularly be short on credits and would often need to grind some on Sechura et al. to afford your trades, fusion, etc. If you always had boosters running thanks to Prime Access or Prime Accessories, you'd nearly always have enough credits and plenty to spare, too.

I'm one of the ones who has always had boosters running. Here are my stats:

I'm currently sitting on 33m credits. That means I've spent approximately 70m credits over the course of my Warframe career. Had I not had credit boosters throughout my career, I would have earned only 51m credits gross—which means I'd have had to farm an additional 19m credits to meet all my expenditures.

Thanks to this substantial credit nerf, newer players with credit boosters are now nearly as badly off as players with no boosters used to be... while those with no boosters will have to work nearly twice as hard as before just to keep up.

Oxium, credits, affinity, and stealth chain affinity farming have all been nerfed in Star Chart 3.0. Even Syndicate and Simaris rep have received a (fairly mild) nerf. It doesn't much affect players like me who are MR22 and have almost everything obtainable, but it will have a huge impact on newer players.

[AndyPandyyy]

On 1.8.2016 at 4:13 PM, Troll_Logic said:

It will once they start maxing mods. :)

I play WF just over a month and had a quick taste of the old Draco, but may i ask how many fusion cores you have?

I ask this question, because you keep mentioning maxing primed mods and using this narrative that you have to work so much harder to max. those, since you lack credits. I play a mix of missions and do the Hieracon/sortie runs for cores and from my perspective as a new player i noticed, that i always run out of cores faster than credits.

In my experience i get about 15-20 r5 cores and 40-80k credits doing hieracon runs, which given that other missions give nearly no cores i never have credit issues in regards to fusing mods. The only time i lack credits was the moment i noticed how steep the prime mod tax is, but i don't see a problem with the price, since thats my "endgame" and i already bought like 4 prime mods and fused them to rank 7-8. So now looking forward i can already see a point in time, where i don't even know why i would need credits anymore at all?

I suspect the whole post here is simply related to buying primed mods, maxing them and selling them for 400-700p on the market. So those players now have to work way harder to keep those plats rolling in.

So yeah for the veteran plat farming players this nerf is pretty bad no doubt, but for me i don't really care. If i could earn cores faster than credits, than i would probably also be annoyed, but as it stands now i rarely do credit farming at all and always need to-do core farming.

Edited August 2, 2016 by AndyPandyyy

[crafturtoemc]

You guys would probably have no problem for quite some time. Once they release more content, more primed mods,R10s...GEGE credit. I totally agree to buff the credit reward.

If it doesn't happen it's fine, I'm sitting on a huge sum of platinum for a long time now... Anyway...

[Halp]

1 hour ago, Kastorius said:

 

I'm one of the ones who has always had boosters running. Here are my stats:

 

for comparisons sake im at 31 days played with 52 mil gross and 800k currently. thats as someone who has only used boosters a couple of times. im only at 800k from one last sell off mods and blueprints. this is basically it and im sitting on 1645 R5 Cores i simply cant use, barely built any forma for 2 weeks, certainly cant afford power cores and why waste money on pet upkeep?

 

before SOTR i could play normally and be close to even on credits. run some captures if i needed some or sechura if i was feeling it or hieracon for cores and credits.  that was as someone who had 0 primed or corrupted mods when i came back 100 days ago. so i was able to play "normally" and progress getting all of the corrupted mods and buying everything baro had to offer over that time frame. ranking those mods up to at least R8 and all the while trading my way up to a bunch of plat.

 

basically progression felt "normal"

 

now my gameplay consist of...

 

well i could run my syndicate dailies but i need credits

well i could farm relics but i need credits

well i could do some spy missions to level some weapons but i need credits

well i could kill this acolyte but they didnt spawn on a good credit node

well im sick of hieracon so i will afk in my dojo waiting for trades until i run out of credits then decide if i want to play anymore

 

throw the draco nerf ontop of it and as someone that enjoyed doing PUGs there my progression is anything but normal.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Halp

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, AndyPandyyy said:

I play WF just over a month and had a quick taste of the old Draco, but may i ask how many fusion cores you have?

Around 800 rare, 400 common, 140 uncommon, and assorted others.

3 hours ago, AndyPandyyy said:

In my experience i get about 15-20 r5 cores and 40-80k credits doing hieracon runs, which given that other missions give nearly no cores i never have credit issues in regards to fusing mods. The only time i lack credits was the moment i noticed how steep the prime mod tax is, but i don't see a problem with the price, since thats my "endgame" and i already bought like 4 prime mods and fused them to rank 7-8. So now looking forward i can already see a point in time, where i don't even know why i would need credits anymore at all?

4 Primed mods is a low number as is rank 7-8.  Ranking the mods isn't the same for each level.  It takes more cores and credits for each level than the previous level.  You have 4 prime mods ranked to 7 or 8.  I have at least 10 Primed mods maxed and I'm planning on maxing more.  I'm not sure when a player won't need credits anymore.  Everything is hinged around credits; buying, trading, leveling mods, and building items.

3 hours ago, AndyPandyyy said:

So yeah for the veteran plat farming players this nerf is pretty bad no doubt, but for me i don't really care. If i could earn cores faster than credits, than i would probably also be annoyed, but as it stands now i rarely do credit farming at all and always need to-do core farming.

This is bad for just about everyone.  Nerfing credits production is a huge bottleneck.  If you don't play enough for it to affect you, then it doesn't affect you.  But it severely affects just about everyone else.

[Biscotchi]

And of course this thread, like every other thread that has brought up how credits were ninja-nerfed in SotR, is just going to end up buried and forgotten. Unless players get angry and STAY angry, keeping these threads full to the bursting on here, reddit, and elsewhere, DE is just going to ignore all this and wait for people's anger to die down, just as they probably planned.